Unmarked speed vans

alocinm

I passed a speed van today. Only realised it was a speed van when I was right up to it and seen the camera in the back. Do speed vans not have to be marked in some way? This van was completely white with no indication of what it was. I was under the impression they had to be marked?

Joeseph Balls

It was a gatso van I'd say.

source

alocinm wrote: »

I passed a speed van today. Only realised it was a speed van when I was right up to it and seen the camera in the back. Do speed vans not have to be marked in some way? This van was completely white with no indication of what it was. I was under the impression they had to be marked?

Speed vans are operated by gosafe and AGS.

The gosafe vans need to be marked when enforcing the limit, they also have survey vans which are not marked.

The Garda vans can operate in any manner they wish.

Kings Inns or bust

Must return that FCN - thanks for the reminded.

punisher5112

The gardai have around 10 transits in white a few have markings and a few have none.

goz83

Just avoid wide, well paved, safe roads with no accident history. You'll never see speed vans where they should be.

Little CuChulainn

goz83 wrote: »

Just avoid wide, well paved, safe roads with no accident history. You'll never see speed vans where they should be.

I always hear this horse**** spouted about the vans. I've personally attended serious and fatal accidents on every road GoSafe operate on in the three Garda divisions I've worked in over the last decade. If anything, it's the Garda ones that tend to be at easy target spots because the public allows their police force to be judged on numbers as opposed to quality of work.

Then people complain that they aren't located on some dangerous bend instead of the straight part. Of course they aren't. Not only do they not work on bends, their presence there would be dangerous due to the absolute stupidity of Irish drivers.

punisher5112

Vans don't catch dangerous drivers.

I had an Audi a4 undertake me and others while we are overtaking 2 trucks and he then does a fast & furious flick(swerve) in into my lane with a foot between us.

This guy needs Garda presence not vans.

brian_t

punisher5112 wrote: »

Vans don't catch dangerous drivers.

I had an Audi a4 undertake me and others while we are overtaking 2 trucks and he then does a fast & furious flick(swerve) in into my lane with a foot between us.

This guy needs Garda presence not vans.

Garda Trafficwatch - 1890 205 805

Little CuChulainn

punisher5112 wrote: »

Vans don't catch dangerous drivers.

I had an Audi a4 undertake me and others while we are overtaking 2 trucks and he then does a fast & furious flick(swerve) in into my lane with a foot between us.

This guy needs Garda presence not vans.

Vans didn't catch that particular dangerous driver.

Kings Inns or bust

Personally I'd rather see a load more fixed cameras and/or a graduated fine system a la France.

I was doing 58 through Fairview when I got done - I actually thought it was a 60 given most of the approaching road is. No biggee I'll take the fine but three points is a bit harsh IMHO.

goz83

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I always hear this horse**** spouted about the vans. I've personally attended serious and fatal accidents on every road GoSafe operate on in the three Garda divisions I've worked in over the last decade. If anything, it's the Garda ones that tend to be at easy target spots because the public allows their police force to be judged on numbers as opposed to quality of work.

Then people complain that they aren't located on some dangerous bend instead of the straight part. Of course they aren't. Not only do they not work on bends, their presence there would be dangerous due to the absolute stupidity of Irish drivers.

For the most part, it's not horse****. I have NEVER ever seen a speed van on a country road where the speed limit is 100kmph and some drivers are doing 140 when they should really be doing 60.

For years, they operated a speed gun behind my house on a main road, pointing toward a train bridge. The limit of the road is 50kph. Number of fatal accidents = 0. I doubt there's ever been an injury on the road.

Over the past 2+ years, they have been planting a speedvan every couple of weeks on the Malahide Road in Dublin, a couple hundred metres beyond the Hilton hotel and very much hidden until the last second as you come around a slow curve, it's almost in behind the wall. The only deaths I am aware of in this area are the ones in the adjacent graveyard.

Sure, I accept that accidents (fatal ones too) happen on any road and I accept that it would be dangerous to put a van on a bend, but there is little doubt that the vast majority of the time, it's fishing in a barrel. I'm not some disgruntled guy with a grudge either. I have never been snapped by a speed van. Only time I might break the speed limit is overtaking on a motorway and even that I tend to avoid.

The Bishop Basher

goz83 wrote: »

Just avoid wide, well paved, safe roads with no accident history.

And a ridiculously low speed limit..

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I always hear this horse**** spouted about the vans. I've personally attended serious and fatal accidents on every road GoSafe operate on in the three Garda divisions I've worked in over the last decade.

Up to recently, a go safe van regularly sat out front of a shop beside me. There have been zero fatalities in that location. It's an "easy pickin" spot with a very low speed limit. Go figure. Thankfully, the shop recently extended their car park and removed the parking space so the van had to go elsewhere much to the delight of all the locals.. We all have kids but these guys were doing nothing to make the roads safer. They won't be missed..

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If anything, it's the Garda ones that tend to be at easy target spots because the public allows their police force to be judged on numbers as opposed to quality of work.

A couple of years ago i actually went to the trouble of checking all of the spots in my area where the Garda vans operate and matched these locations against the RSA map of collisions and sure enough there was zero correlation between the 2.

In fact the Garda vans were parked up in some of the safest locations according to the RSA stats. Strangely enough though, almost all of them had an unusually low speed limit for that stretch of road.

But it doesn't surprise me that you blame the public for Garda incompetence. Says far more about you and the state of the force then it does about the public you seem so keen to blame. The only numbers the public care about are innocent road deaths and you won't reduce deaths by picking easy spots and shooting fish in a barrel as you all love to do...

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Then people complain that they aren't located on some dangerous bend instead of the straight part. Of course they aren't. Not only do they not work on bends, their presence there would be dangerous due to the absolute stupidity of Irish drivers.

Ah so it's the public's fault again :rolleyes: No one's asking you to sit on dangerous bends. Just do your job properly instead of trying to gouge easy money out of the already hard stretched motorist. Make saving lives a priority and you might find you get more respect from motorists.

Little CuChulainn

goz83 wrote: »

For the most part, it's not horse****. I have NEVER ever seen a speed van on a country road where the speed limit is 100kmph and some drivers are doing 140 when they should really be doing 60.

For years, they operated a speed gun behind my house on a main road, pointing toward a train bridge. The limit of the road is 50kph. Number of fatal accidents = 0. I doubt there's ever been an injury on the road.

Over the past 2+ years, they have been planting a speedvan every couple of weeks on the Malahide Road in Dublin, a couple hundred metres beyond the Hilton hotel and very much hidden until the last second as you come around a slow curve, it's almost in behind the wall. The only deaths I am aware of in this area are the ones in the adjacent graveyard.

There have been loads of accidents on the Malahide Road.

Swanner wrote: »

Up to recently, a go safe van regularly sat out front of a shop beside me. There have been zero fatalities in that location. It's an "easy pickin" spot with a very low speed limit. Go figure. Thankfully, the shop recently extended their car park and removed the parking space so the van had to go elsewhere much to the delight of all the locals.. We all have kids but these guys were doing nothing to make the roads safer. They won't be missed..

A couple of years ago i actually went to the trouble of checking all of the spots in my area where the Garda vans operate and matched these locations against the RSA map of collisions and sure enough there was zero correlation between the 2.

In fact the Garda vans were parked up in some of the safest locations according to the RSA stats. Strangely enough though, almost all of them had an unusually low speed limit for that stretch of road.

If you want to give me those locations I'll tell you about the accidents there. The RSA stats are very lacking. GPS has only been used i the last couple of years to mark accident spots.

Swanner wrote: »

But it doesn't surprise me that you blame the public for Garda incompetence. Says far more about you and the state of the force then it does about the public you seem so keen to blame. The only numbers the public care about are innocent road deaths and you won't reduce deaths by picking easy spots and shooting fish in a barrel as you all love to do...

Ah so it's the public's fault again :rolleyes: No one's asking you to sit on dangerous bends. Just do your job properly instead of trying to gouge easy money out of the already hard stretched motorist. Make saving lives a priority and you might find you get more respect from motorists.

The police force is a reflection of the public it serves. The people demand productivity they get it. I don't blame the public, I blame Garda management. There's no incompetence in doing the job you are directed to do.

L1011

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I always hear this horse**** spouted about the vans. I've personally attended serious and fatal accidents on every road GoSafe operate on in the three Garda divisions I've worked in over the last decade.

The one local GoSafe spot - until the council put a path on the side of the road it stopped on, so it'd be breaking the law to use it now - was in the one area of a "zone" that they could put the van in

The fatal accident that happened within this zone happened on a different road, over 20* years ago, before the road was widened from a country lane with a one person wide footpath to a three lane road with footpaths and cycle lanes as part of the Maynooth Bypass works. In 1995.

They also frequently have them on a replacement section of N5, where the road deaths happened on the old bit that was, well, replaced for that reason

The justifications for the zones are often extremely weak.

*it may actually be over 30, I'm trying to remember what the marker said before it was removed, about 20 ago.

goz83

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There have been loads of accidents on the Malahide Road.

Being that the Malahide Road is circa 10km long and cuts through very densely populated areas almost the whole way through, I would imagine that a few accidents have indeed happened on the the road. Oddly enough, the speed van in question is positioned on a stretch of road, which is less likely to see an accident than in any other part, as the road becomes a single lane beyond the Hilton Hotel.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4074927,-6.1778199,3a,74.4y,307.09h,87.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srz9HiRYxDpbXn_VBSR2qSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Right behind that bush they park. I would be able to pick out a dozen more dangerous areas on that road alone, where a speed van would better be placed.

The Bishop Basher

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you want to give me those locations I'll tell you about the accidents there. The RSA stats are very lacking. GPS has only been used i the last couple of years to mark accident spots.

To be honest, I only use the RSA data to confirm what i already know about these locations which is that that there have been zero fatalities. Not one. Nada. Zip.

These are all large, wide, safe, straight roads that just "happen" to have a good hiding spot spot for a van and an unusually low speed limit.

Whoever makes the decision to park in these locations clearly couldn't give a fiddlers about road safety. They're just chasing easy fines and trying to make up the stats and nothing more.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The police force is a reflection of the public it serves. The people demand productivity they get it. I don't blame the public, I blame Garda management. There's no incompetence in doing the job you are directed to do.

People aren't demanding this nonsense. They want proper enforcement of laws where it matters. Take the M50 as an example. It's a complete free for all. Lane discipline is non existent and has a huge impact on traffic. It's actually at epidemic proportions. Why ? Because there's zero enforcement. You're all far too busy hiding out in 30 zones making easy money for the state. It's a joke.

Little CuChulainn

Swanner wrote: »

To be honest, I only use the RSA data to confirm what i already know about these locations which is that that there have been zero fatalities. Not one. Nada. Zip.

These are all large, wide, safe, straight roads that just "happen" to have a good hiding spot spot for a van and an unusually low speed limit.

Whoever makes the decision to park in these locations clearly couldn't give a fiddlers about road safety. They're just chasing easy fines and trying to make up the stats and nothing more.



People aren't demanding this nonsense. They want proper enforcement of laws where it matters. Take the M50 as an example. It's a complete free for all. Lane discipline is non existent and has a huge impact on traffic. It's actually at epidemic proportions. Why ? Because there's zero enforcement. You're all far too busy hiding out in 30 zones making easy money for the state. It's a joke.

You understand there is at most 5 Gardaí in vans at any one time?

goz83

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You understand there is at most 5 Gardaí in vans at any one time?

Talking about gosafe vans too. And the number of them is not as relevant as the chosen parking locations. You can't honestly say that they don't park in areas where there is little chance of a serious accident. Trouble is that they wouldn't rack up the numbers on a Donegal back road where these serious accidents tend to happen.

Little CuChulainn

goz83 wrote: »

Talking about gosafe vans too. And the number of them is not as relevant as the chosen parking locations. .

You said

"You're all far too busy hiding out in 30 zones making easy money for the state."

You were clearly referring to the Gardaí. The Gardaí have nothing to do with the GoSafe vans.

goz83 wrote: »

You can't honestly say that they don't park in areas where there is little chance of a serious accident. Trouble is that they wouldn't rack up the numbers on a Donegal back road where these serious accidents tend to happen

No I didn't say that. I said all the zones in the three Divisions I've worked in have been area where I have personally seen serious or fatal accidents. And the majority of vans I see out are in areas I know there have been serious or fatal accidents. I've no doubt that the GoSafe vans are located in areas where speed itself is considered a frequent issue as opposed to the history of accidents. I don't see that as a bad thing either.

Discodog

The priority is clearly conviction rate & revenue. The Guards around Galway choose their spots to maximise this. Last week a Guard was hiding behind a Church wall with his radar gun on a piece of road where there hasn't been an accident in years. But it is lucrative because the limit changes along a piece of clear straight road.

And it's logical. If a Guard or a Van set up & don't get convictions then they would be asked why, so they choose locations with a good chance of success.

goz83

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You said

"You're all far too busy hiding out in 30 zones making easy money for the state."

You were clearly referring to the Gardaí. The Gardaí have nothing to do with the GoSafe vans.

No, I didn't. Another poster said that.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No I didn't say that. I said all the zones in the three Divisions I've worked in have been area where I have personally seen serious or fatal accidents. And the majority of vans I see out are in areas I know there have been serious or fatal accidents.

I didn't say you said that. I said you can't say that

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I've no doubt that the GoSafe vans are located in areas where speed itself is considered a frequent issue as opposed to the history of accidents. I don't see that as a bad thing either.

I certainly would suggest you are being dishonest. I just have never seen a speed van, gosafe van, or even a uniform out with a speed gun in a location I would call dangerous, even if there were people going quite a bit over the limit. The usual spots are in 50-60kmph zones, or under.

amdaley28

Where I live in South Kerry there's a hill outside my house where the majority of vehicles break the speed limit of 50 km.
There was a time when you would find a Garda car with a speed gun there but I haven't seen one there now for years.
I don't blame the ordinary Garda for this. Its their superiors who sit behind desks who give the orders.  Its all to do with stats & numbers nowadays. In most places outside of Dublin you'd find a criminal quicker that a Garda.

Victor

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I was doing 58 through Fairview when I got done - I actually thought it was a 60 given most of the approaching road is. No biggee I'll take the fine but three points is a bit harsh IMHO.

Assuming you weren't in the Port Tunnel, the nearest 60km/h zone is several km away: http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//RoadsandTraffic/generaltrafficmeasures/Documents/City_wide_map_Dec_2012.pdf

StudentDad

Part of the reason why I drive with a sat nav, isn't necessarily because it's a map. It's because it gives me real-time information about the speed limits. There are too many roads about that simply do not have adequate signage regarding those limits. My favourite is driving along a wide stretch of road and with little or no warning the limit drops for a few miles and then for no obvious reason goes back to what it was or changes again to a different limit. Again there doesn't appear to be any difference in the road. It just seems like we pass through completely arbitrary boundaries with little or no warning to the motorist. Having to suddenly jam on the brakes to slow down for no obvious reason can't be safe. If you don't slow down you run the risk of camera vans, if you do slow down you get drivers behind giving you grief and hopping mad to overtake. Not safe planning that.

SD

gctest50

StudentDad wrote: »

........................

Having to suddenly jam on the brakes to slow down for no obvious reason can't be safe. If you don't slow down you run the risk of camera vans, if you do slow down you get drivers behind giving you grief and hopping mad to overtake. Not safe planning that.

SD

Need average speed cameras to help sort some of it - they are not the be all and end all but they help

http://bit.ly/2iD2iCO


The introduction of the average speed cameras has resulted in a reduction of over 63% in the number of drivers being detected speeding.

Not considered within this factor is that the previous enforcement regime did not have the 24/7 capability that the average speed cameras provide.

- The camera system detected 298 vehicles exceeding the speed limit which warranted further action, this is less than 4 per day
- Overall speeding is down from around one in three drivers to one in twenty
- Examples of excessive speeding (10 mph+ above limit) are down by 97 per cent
- Journey times have increased in line with predictions
- Journey time reliability has improved
- There is no evidence that drivers are avoiding the A9
- Feedback from hauliers suggests a significant reduction in journey times for HGVs

.

StudentDad

gctest50 wrote: »

Need average speed cameras to help sort some of it - they are not the be all and end all but they help

I would have thought decent signage that lets drivers know in time that the limits were changing, coupled with limits that actually made sense would be the way to go.

SD

Denny_Crane

StudentDad wrote: »

I would have thought decent signage that lets drivers know in time that the limits were changing, coupled with limits that actually made sense would be the way to go.

SD

TBH I always miss the signs when I'm texting.