Warehouse jobs not good enough for Irish

Kermit.de.frog

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-store-looking-for-polish-workers-after-they-struggle-to-fill-warehouse-posts-35052346.html


Now i'm not saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled or the welfare state may be looking after certain sections of the unemployed a bit too much but I am saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled and the welfare state is looking after certain sections a bit too much...

People can pick and choose it seems. Something wrong when work rewards less than reliance otherwise the above would not be the case.

Unless the Irish have grown a collective delusion that certain work is simply below them. Better to have no job at all.

tobsey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-store-looking-for-polish-workers-after-they-struggle-to-fill-warehouse-posts-35052346.html


Now i'm not saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled or the welfare state may be looking after certain sections of the unemployed a bit too much but I am saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled and the welfare state is looking after certain sections a bit too much...

People can pick and choose it seems. Something wrong when work rewards less than reliance otherwise the above would not be the case.

Unless the Irish have grown a collective delusion that certain work is simply below them. Better to have no job at all.

€10 an hour is not worth working for. A fair days pay for a fair days work is all people want.

Clampdown

I'm sure this hack job article gets your dole basher blood boiling (you post frequently about the unemployed), but it's basically right wing propaganda from a rag which shares your agenda.

How would the hiring practices of a warehouse in a small town in Kildare come to the attention of a national newspaper? Seems strange and to me the reasoning behind it is to push this 'recovery' nonsense the government are spinning.

Do you not wonder why they don't hold recruitment days in somewhere else in Ireland, like up in the Northwest, where unemployment I still very high, if they want Irish people? Why go to Poznan?

It's because they WANT Polish workers to take those jobs. There's plenty of jobs (like this type), that many companies would prefer to hire Eastern Europeans for because the employers know they can treat them however they like. Ever wonder why there's so many of them working in Aldi's, hotels and takeaways?

It's not usually the actual work that Irish people feel too good for, it's the treatment by the employers which is often horrendous- they treat you like a dog, and often don't follow rules as regards breaks, rest times between shifts, OT pay, health and safety, I could go on. If you've worked in these places you'd know most times it isn't worth it.

I've worked in those jobs alongside the Polish and unless they've been here a good while they aren't aware of their rights and won't stick up for them. So Polish lads fresh from Poznan are what they want for long hours of donkey work moving pallets and boxes in a warehouse. I worked alongside Polish lads before getting less than minimum wage because they didn't know it had been raised in the budget. When they asked for it, the hotel started docking them 50 cents an hour for employee meals that they only sometimes got and were never charged for previously.

The real problem is that they can't find enough Polish lads in Kilcock to do their heavy lifting for them. Probably because they have returned back to their country once the economy here went into the crapper. And plenty of our own have left as well after losing their jobs. If you think we're going to have trouble getting Irish warehouse workers wait till you see what happens with nurses, teachers etc. They're all leaving as we speak.

That said, if a warehouse in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim etc were to have jobs available they'd be snapped up in no time by Irish people if that's what the companies wanted to hire. Myself and plenty other Irish in the Northwest are desperate to get off the dole. When I apply for a job lately it usually tells me anywhere from 75-200 people have applied as well (for 1 position). In cities it would be many more.

Outside of the capital unemployment is still very high. If you think we're at a point now where there are more job vacancies then people based on this article you are mistaken.

AllGunsBlazing

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-store-looking-for-polish-workers-after-they-struggle-to-fill-warehouse-posts-35052346.html


Now i'm not saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled or the welfare state may be looking after certain sections of the unemployed a bit too much but I am saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled and the welfare state is looking after certain sections a bit too much...

People can pick and choose it seems. Something wrong when work rewards less than reliance otherwise the above would not be the case.

Unless the Irish have grown a collective delusion that certain work is simply below them. Better to have no job at all.

Do you rub one out while reading these articles?

kittensmittens

Jesus Kermit, take a day off............

Esel

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Do you rub one out while reading these articles?

Brought a tier to my I can haz job now?

TommyRiordan

Would gladly have more of my tax go towards social welfare for others.

Clampdown

According to the local Kildare newspaper linked below, they were unable to find these warehouse vacancies advertised anywhere around Kildare

http://www.kildarenow.com/news/major-kildare-retailer-defend-their-decision-to-source-staff-from-poland-for-their-warehouse/117581

Which appears to support my suspicions above, they were targeting Polish workers specifically. And we all know why.

The whole thing about them not being able to fill the jobs with Irish people seems to be complete BS.

Back to the drawing board Kermit, this one's a non runner.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I actually applied for a lot of those jobs recently and have heard absolutely nothing back from them. So fúck em.

Allinall

tobsey wrote: »

€10 an hour is not worth working for. A fair days pay for a fair days work is all people want.

Could you expand on your reasoning behind that?

What's a fair days pay?

But more importantly- what's a fair days work?

I'd be very interested in your answer to those two questions.

They would give some credence to your rather vague post.

lawred2

tobsey wrote: »

€10 an hour is not worth working for. A fair days pay for a fair days work is all people want.

What is unfair about it?

It's hardly skilled labor. What exactly is a fair day's pay?

You want to inflate unskilled pay to the levels of skilled pay?

As for the article... I don't trust anything that comes from the dependent news and media.

Clampdown

baz2009 wrote: »

I actually applied for a lot of those jobs recently and have heard absolutely nothing back from them. So fúck em.

Change your surname to something resembling a WiFi password and you might get a call. Make sure you thrown in plenty of c's j's and z's beside other consonants where they normally wouldn't belong.

Galwayguy35

tobsey wrote: »

€10 an hour is not worth working for. A fair days pay for a fair days work is all people want.

I'm on 10 euro an hour and I work in a warehouse similar to the one in the OP, sure I'd like to be on more but the idea that I'd sit at home doing nothing because it's not working for is ridiculous.

Anyone that thinks like that is lazy.

Strong Life in Dublin

lawred2 wrote: »

What is unfair about it?

It's hardly skilled labor. What exactly is a fair day's pay?

You want to inflate unskilled pay to the levels of skilled pay?

As for the article... I don't trust anything that comes from the dependent news and media.

It may not be skilled labour but its back breaking stuff. I worked in a warehouse over the summer and i would come home every night exhausted with my whole body aching.

So i would agree with the other guy and say that work was too much for just 10e. I don't know how much someone working in a warehouse should be paid but it should be more than minimum wage.

So just because it's unskilled it doesn't mean it should pay like ****

the evasion_kid

Musgrave are renowned a**holes to work for,also Kenny and co reduced a lot of warehouse work to job bridge schemes,it ain't exactly quantum physics..

lawred2

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

It may not be skilled labour but its back breaking stuff. I worked in a warehouse over the summer and i would come home every night exhausted with my whole body aching.

So i would agree with the other guy and say that work was too much for just 10e. I don't know how much someone working in a warehouse should be paid but it should be more than minimum wage.

So just because it's unskilled it doesn't mean it should pay like ****

E10 is more then minimum wage

I worked as a young lad in a bakery and then a warehouse.. Awful back breaking soul destroying work but that doesn't mean anything where the market wage is concerned.

Cheerful Spring

Clampdown wrote: »

I'm sure this hack job article gets your dole basher blood boiling (you post frequently about the unemployed), but it's basically right wing propaganda from a rag which shares your agenda.

How would the hiring practices of a warehouse in a small town in Kildare come to the attention of a national newspaper? Seems strange and to me the reasoning behind it is to push this 'recovery' nonsense the government are spinning.

Do you not wonder why they don't hold recruitment days in somewhere else in Ireland, like up in the Northwest, where unemployment I still very high, if they want Irish people? Why go to Poznan?

It's because they WANT Polish workers to take those jobs. There's plenty of jobs (like this type), that many companies would prefer to hire Eastern Europeans for because the employers know they can treat them however they like. Ever wonder why there's so many of them working in Aldi's, hotels and takeaways?

It's not usually the actual work that Irish people feel too good for, it's the treatment by the employers which is often horrendous- they treat you like a dog, and often don't follow rules as regards breaks, rest times between shifts, OT pay, health and safety, I could go on. If you've worked in these places you'd know most times it isn't worth it.

I've worked in those jobs alongside the Polish and unless they've been here a good while they aren't aware of their rights and won't stick up for them. So Polish lads fresh from Poznan are what they want for long hours of donkey work moving pallets and boxes in a warehouse. I worked alongside Polish lads before getting less than minimum wage because they didn't know it had been raised in the budget. When they asked for it, the hotel started docking them 50 cents an hour for employee meals that they only sometimes got and were never charged for previously.

The real problem is that they can't find enough Polish lads in Kilcock to do their heavy lifting for them. Probably because they have returned back to their country once the economy here went into the crapper. And plenty of our own have left as well after losing their jobs. If you think we're going to have trouble getting Irish warehouse workers wait till you see what happens with nurses, teachers etc. They're all leaving as we speak.

That said, if a warehouse in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim etc were to have jobs available they'd be snapped up in no time by Irish people if that's what the companies wanted to hire. Myself and plenty other Irish in the Northwest are desperate to get off the dole. When I apply for a job lately it usually tells me anywhere from 75-200 people have applied as well (for 1 position). In cities it would be many more.

Outside of the capital unemployment is still very high. If you think we're at a point now where there are more job vacancies then people based on this article you are mistaken.

I agree i say its more about the location of the company then Irish people refusing to work there.

Harvey Normal

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Now i'm not saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled or the welfare state may be looking after certain sections of the unemployed a bit too much but I am saying some of the lower tiers have their brains scrambled and the welfare state is looking after certain sections a bit too much...

People can pick and choose it seems. Something wrong when work rewards less than reliance otherwise the above would not be the case.

Unless the Irish have grown a collective delusion that certain work is simply below them. Better to have no job at all.

The selling point of capitalism used to be that it made everybody richer - now it's saying that you're going to get poorer and like it. Or we'll hire the Poles.

Kermit.de.frog

Harvey Normal wrote: »

The selling point of capitalism used to be that it made everybody richer

No, it makes those that work and create value richer. It's not suppose to make everyone richer because there should be no welfare state attached.

suicide_circus

Remember this the next time you're about to walk into a supervalu or centra

markpb

Harvey Normal wrote:

The selling point of capitalism used to be that it made everybody richer - now it's saying that you're going to get poorer and like it. Or we'll hire the Poles.

Are you mixing up capitalism and socialism?

Mr. teddywinkles

Clampdown wrote: »

I'm sure this hack job article gets your dole basher blood boiling (you post frequently about the unemployed), but it's basically right wing propaganda from a rag which shares your agenda.

How would the hiring practices of a warehouse in a small town in Kildare come to the attention of a national newspaper? Seems strange and to me the reasoning behind it is to push this 'recovery' nonsense the government are spinning.

Do you not wonder why they don't hold recruitment days in somewhere else in Ireland, like up in the Northwest, where unemployment I still very high, if they want Irish people? Why go to Poznan?

It's because they WANT Polish workers to take those jobs. There's plenty of jobs (like this type), that many companies would prefer to hire Eastern Europeans for because the employers know they can treat them however they like. Ever wonder why there's so many of them working in Aldi's, hotels and takeaways?

It's not usually the actual work that Irish people feel too good for, it's the treatment by the employers which is often horrendous- they treat you like a dog, and often don't follow rules as regards breaks, rest times between shifts, OT pay, health and safety, I could go on. If you've worked in these places you'd know most times it isn't worth it.

I've worked in those jobs alongside the Polish and unless they've been here a good while they aren't aware of their rights and won't stick up for them. So Polish lads fresh from Poznan are what they want for long hours of donkey work moving pallets and boxes in a warehouse. I worked alongside Polish lads before getting less than minimum wage because they didn't know it had been raised in the budget. When they asked for it, the hotel started docking them 50 cents an hour for employee meals that they only sometimes got and were never charged for previously.

The real problem is that they can't find enough Polish lads in Kilcock to do their heavy lifting for them. Probably because they have returned back to their country once the economy here went into the crapper. And plenty of our own have left as well after losing their jobs. If you think we're going to have trouble getting Irish warehouse workers wait till you see what happens with nurses, teachers etc. They're all leaving as we speak.

That said, if a warehouse in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim etc were to have jobs available they'd be snapped up in no time by Irish people if that's what the companies wanted to hire. Myself and plenty other Irish in the Northwest are desperate to get off the dole. When I apply for a job lately it usually tells me anywhere from 75-200 people have applied as well (for 1 position). In cities it would be many more.

Outside of the capital unemployment is still very high. If you think we're at a point now where there are more job vacancies then people based on this article you are mistaken.

Iv worked along side polish too in varies jobs in my younger years. And I think most these type of jobs as you say its not even the low pay. Its the treatment. Being hounded every day is not exactly great and put under severe pressure is not reflected in your pay packet at the end of the week. Asking yourself why should you put up with it.
Most polish are great workers but I also seen them quit and move on to better jobs same as the Irish. Also seen some get the sack too for not been productive enough according to the management in these places which might not necessarily be the case.

Harvey Normal

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No, it makes those that work and create value richer.It's not suppose to make everyone richer because there should be no welfare state attached.

Not so. Thatcher said she was happy with wealth differentials because it made everybody richer. That's the claim of neo-classical economics too.


Now it seems that argument is that wages should and will fall to the lowest common denominator. So suck it up. Working here isn't going to make anybody, but the owner, rich.

Your last sentence makes no sense.

Harvey Normal

markpb wrote: »

Are you mixing up capitalism and socialism?

Er, no. I didn't say make everybody equally rich. Think of the American Dream.

Anongeneric

Clampdown wrote: »

According to the local Kildare newspaper linked below, they were unable to find these warehouse vacancies advertised anywhere around Kildare

http://www.kildarenow.com/news/major-kildare-retailer-defend-their-decision-to-source-staff-from-poland-for-their-warehouse/117581

Which appears to support my suspicions above, they were targeting Polish workers specifically. And we all know why.

The whole thing about them not being able to fill the jobs with Irish people seems to be complete BS.

Back to the drawing board Kermit, this one's a non runner.

Had a look myself,
Not advertised on the employers own website or the two largest jobs websites in the country

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I wouldn't do it myself...

You'd get 350 after tax.
You'd get almost 190 on the dole.
So working 5 days a week for €160, that's €32 more than you'd get on the dole a day...and then take the price of your commute and lunches out of that. You're working for nothing.

I'm working, I'm fine, I just wouldn't get out of bed for that sort of shyte soul destroying work for 30 quid a day. I already have my shyte soul destroying job for only very slightly more €€ per day.

Harvey Normal

Did the independent remove the comments on that article?

pablo128

The Honey Monster wrote: »

I wouldn't do it myself...

You'd get 350 after tax.
You'd get almost 190 on the dole.
So working 5 days a week for €160, that's €32 more than you'd get on the dole a day...and then take the price of your commute and lunches out of that. You're working for nothing.

I'm working, I'm fine, I just wouldn't get out of bed for that sort of shyte soul destroying work for 30 quid a day. I already have my shyte soul destroying job for only very slightly more €€ per day.

That's an utterly sh1tty attitude. Who the fcuk do you think pays for someones dole?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

pablo128 wrote: »

That's an utterly sh1tty attitude. Who the fcuk do you think pays for someones dole?

I do.

Harvey Normal

pablo128 wrote: »

That's an utterly sh1tty attitude. Who the fcuk do you think pays for someones dole?

He does as he works. Saying he wouldn't work a certain job isn't saying he isn't working now.

Very few of the libertarian keyboard warriors would work these jobs either of course.

pablo128

The Honey Monster wrote: »

I do.

And so do the lads on a tenner an hour and even less than that. The same ones who's job is beneath you.

Mr. teddywinkles

pablo128 wrote: »

That's an utterly sh1tty attitude. Who the fcuk do you think pays for someones dole?

Not as shyte an attitude as some of the management in theses places. Id say its a wake up call for people to concentrate on an education to avoid these places at all cost. In saying that where ya end up could be just as bad.:)

Harvey Normal

pablo128 wrote: »

And so do the lads on a tenner an hour and even less than that. The same ones who's job is beneath you.

How low do you think the wages should go before you think somebody has a point?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

pablo128 wrote: »

And so do the lads on a tenner an hour and even less than that. The same ones who's job is beneath you.

It's not beneath me. My job is equally ****. I'm basing it on a purely statistical point of view. You're working for €30 a day. For that you wouldnt even pay your car insurance/tax to get you in and out of work. You're literally working for nothing, and why, just so you can feel satisfied that you're working? Eh no thanks.

pablo128

pablo128 wrote: »

That's an utterly sh1tty attitude. Who the fcuk do you think pays for someones dole?

It's not shitty at all.

For some situations, it's an entirely rational choice. Especially if you have children, for example.

Free markets work both ways, you know. If you make an insufficient offer on a product for sale, a retailer may decide it isn't worth selling that product to you. Similarly, if a firm isn't willing to pay a living wage for your labour, then a worker is entirely justified, in my view, to not sell his labour below a certain price.

There is a certain cult of work whose great panegyric is "hard work", that there's some sort of heroism in working for peanuts. It is no more heroic to work for peanuts than it is to sell your goods for below cost-price. People who do the latter are something called 'fools'. I'm not quite sure why working below the cost of living is seen as any different.

In whose interest does this ideology of 'hard work at any price' operate?

goose2005

I'd take that job in a heartbeat. But of course they don't want me, they want someone they can abuse and who can't afford to quit if they get abuse.

vOutside of the capital unemployment is still very high. If you think we're at a point now where there are more job vacancies then people based on this article you are mistaken.

there are 15,000 unemployed in Kildare, including 5,000 in Maynooth which is next to Kilcock. It would be trivially easy to fill all these jobs with young, fit Irish people but sure they'd be wanting their breaks and their rights and their pay and other mad stuff like that.

pablo128

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Not as shyte an attitude as some of the management in theses places. Id say its a wake up call for people to concentrate on an education to avoid these places at all cost. In saying that where ya end up could be just as bad.:)

If you have kids and rent to pay you should be glad of a job anywhere. Ok, if it's not for you well you can use it as a stepping stone to get something else or try to work your way up the ladder.

I was in that position in 2008. 1200 rent per month and a newborn baby and both of us were made redundant. Should I have stayed on the dole or took the 8.65 per hour warehouse job? Well I took the job and worked my way up. I didn't have much choice.

pablo128

Harvey Normal wrote: »

How low do you think the wages should go before you think somebody has a point?

What? Where did I mention lowering anyones wages? Please don't try to put words in my mouth.

hannible the cannible

pablo128 wrote: »

And so do the lads on a tenner an hour and even less than that. The same ones who's job is beneath you.

So should everybody be glad of a job ? Or how low should wages drop and how hard should a manual labour have to work for someone to say I've had enough of this **** , or is it simply a case of put up with it and be glad you've a job to go to

Harvey Normal

Harvey Normal wrote: »

How low do you think the wages should go before you think somebody has a point?

Let me rephrase. You said that a poster found the job beneath him. Actually he said the pay was beneath him. He even did the calculations.

So what level of pay would you think somebody could justify choosing to not take the job?

pablo128

hannible the cannible wrote: »

So should everybody be glad of a job ? Or how low should wages drop and how hard should a manual labour have to work for someone to say I've had enough of this **** , or is it simply a case of put up with it and be glad you've a job to go to

How long would you reckon you would be on the dole before someone comes along and hands you an 18 euro an hour job? As another poster pointed out, 15 thousand people in Kildare alone unemployed. You would be waiting a while.

BattleCorp

I work in the fmcg warehouse industry.

Believe me when I tell you that it's a race to the bottom.

It's sh1t money for very very hard work. You could have pick rates approaching 200 cases per hour, minimum breaks and be forced to work overtime. You are turned into a robot.

It's even tougher for agency staff.

Not nice places to work.

pablo128

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Let me rephrase. You said that a poster found the job beneath him. Actually he said the pay was beneath him. He even did the calculations.

So what level of pay would you think somebody could justify choosing to not take the job?

Chap, you are the one trying to justify not taking a job.

Mr. teddywinkles

BattleCorp wrote: »

I work in the fmcg warehouse industry.

Believe me when I tell you that it's a race to the bottom.

It's sh1t money for very very hard work. You could have pick rates approaching 200 cases per hour, minimum breaks and be forced to work overtime. You are turned into a robot.

It's even tougher for agency staff.

Not nice places to work.

The funny thing is its not even just the money. Its about having a little self respect cause they ain't going to give ya much. I think even the polish cope on after a while but hey it doesn't matter a fook to management because theres more than likely a high turnover of staff anyways.

Harvey Normal

pablo128 wrote: »

Chap, you are the one trying to justify not taking a job.

I've got a job.

Do you find counter factual questions hard? Can you answer the question if not?

pablo128

Harvey Normal wrote: »

I've got a job.

Do you find counter factual questions hard? Can you answer the question if not?

I'm not going to justify not taking a job. If you have read my posts so far in this thread you will see why.

Mr. teddywinkles

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm not going to justify not taking a job. If you have read my posts so far in this thread you will see why.

So all warehouse jobs be the same? And advancement is a cert?

hannible the cannible

pablo128 wrote: »

How long would you reckon you would be on the dole before someone comes along and hands you an 18 euro an hour job? As another poster pointed out, 15 thousand people in Kildare alone unemployed. You would be waiting a while.

I'll agree with you on that , but paying someone little more than what the dole pays is no incentive to return to work

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

pablo128 wrote: »

Chap, you are the one trying to justify not taking a job.

Would you take a job if it meant you had to work in an absolute soul destroying bastard hole for €30 a day while trying to keep your ever increasing bills paid due to being in that bastard hole? Tax, insurance, upkeep of a car, food for lunches etc? What if you had children, you'd be working for even less given the increase in money from social welfare?

Harvey Normal

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm not going to justify not taking a job. If you have read my posts so far in this thread you will see why.

Ok so think that the actual wage could be lower and people should still take a job? I was asking for an actual minimum figure but I suppose anything at subsistence level.

It's moot anyway as they didn't advertise in Kildare.

pablo128

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So all warehouse jobs be the same? And advancement is a cert?

Oh look. Someone else trying to put words in my mouth.:rolleyes: