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Presenting data as Dublin vs Non-Dublin (rental market)
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15-09-2016 7:15am#1
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I'm absolutely baffled as to why we keep hearing media reports that give details for Dublin and then "Non Dublin". The latter is completely pointless information.
There has been huge rental growth in Cork and fairly high growth in the other cities but someone seems to think it's appropriate to report on a figure that includes everything from the most high demand parts of Cork to the most remote parts of Leitrim!
What's the point in giving an average figure like that? Without a breakdown of the figures for the cities it is completely useless.
Morning Ireland was reporting what I think was 10% growth in the non-Dublin rental market and didn't even attempt to drill down to get even a figure for Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford.
The figures for the areas in Dublin's commuter belt would be highly useful too. Kildare etc etc
It makes them feel special.
newacc2015 wrote: »Im not trying to be sarcastic but what people outside of Dublin fail to realise is that Dublin is an economic powerhouse. It is a litmus test of the economy, as Dublin nearly makes up 50% of our GDP which is insane. This means that half our economic growth is produced in that tiny county that is Dublin. It is hard for the media to be excited about the strength of towns and cities outside of Dublin that are reliant on a massive American employer or some state sponsored body like an IT for a majority of their employment
What the media dont like to report is that a lot of the country is flat lining. Some of the midlands have been in a recession since around 2003. Parts of the south east arent doing great either.
Here is an amazing fact I heard this week. Dublin's population is so big, that is is bigger than the next 90 other towns and cities ranked by population in Ireland combined. Bar many Luxembourg or Singapore, Ireland has so much of the population in a tiny area, that is extremely rare. Dublin is also where a majority of REIT owned housing in Ireland is ie the massive funds who own vast amounts of houses and apartments in the City.
When Dublin has nearly half of Ireland population and economy, cant see why parts of the country with no economic future and declining populations are just thrown in with others or non-Dublin. If you buy shares in Green REIT, when you open up the business section of the IT you only want to hear about rental growth in Dublin. What estate agents are getting for a two up, two down in Mohill is not reported as most readers couldnt care less about it. Rents in Mohill arent influencing their pension return and very few people brought investment property outside of Dublin. Limerick City might have strong rental growth, but at the end of the day there are suburbs in Dublin bigger than Limerick City
Maybe the media is finally waking up the reality, that Ireland economy and the population is/has been for the last 30 years Dublin versus non-Dublin? When we had easy credit and generous tax incentives for a brief period, people had false hopes that glorified villages in the midlands had a future. When the credit died down and the construction jobs disappeared, it was business as usual or lack of business as usual.
Rant aside, I imagine the stats are Dublin versus non-Dublin as stats are seriously basic here on property. The CSO is only this or next year final introducing cash sales into property price indexes, despite cash sales dominating property purchases since about 2009/2010. Roughly half of all properties are brought for cash, yet arent included in price indexes.
People fail to realise Dublin is an economic "powerhouse" because it simply isn't
It doesn't even punch above it's weight in an Irish context. Dublin is responsible for closer to 40% of the national GDP and with it having approx 40% of the population, no surprises there! Cork with approx 10% of the population is responsible for almost 20% of Irelands GDP. There was a BS "fact" going around on thejournal or somewhere recently about Dublin being bigger than the next 40 towns and cites....Oh so it's up to 90 now! It's more like 10 if even that. And it's the same situation for Cork so don't get too excited. 
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Santiago Miniature Violet wrote: »The ones that don't have no issue getting skilled employees though. Look at Cork its the Pharma capital of the country (along with quite a few medical device companies) while Galway is the Medical device capital of the country.
Don't know how true that it really. Sure Cork has Pfizer and Glaxo and DePuy, huge huge manufacturers, but there's most of the pharma researchers are in Dublin. Medtronic, Allegran, Perrigo, Gilead and so on. Nearly all of which rank higher on the top 1000 companies list.
Is Galway really the med device capital either? There's a Boston plant there and a few others, but again, more med device companies in Dublin that Galway.
Here's a handy map of pharma locations in Ireland. Most are in the east. https://issuu.com/ipha/docs/map-of-pharmaceutical-locations-in-ireland/1?e=1122707/3245777zetalambda wrote: »It makes them feel special.
People fail to realise Dublin is an economic "powerhouse" because it simply isn't It doesn't even punch above it's weight in an Irish context. Dublin is responsible for closer to 40% of the national GDP and with it having approx 40% of the population, no surprises there! Cork with approx 10% of the population is responsible for almost 20% of Irelands GDP. There was a BS "fact" going around on thejournal or somewhere recently about Dublin being bigger than the next 40 towns and cites....Oh so it's up to 90 now! It's more like 10 if even that. And it's the same situation for Cork so don't get too excited.
Again, pharma manufacturing plants in Cork and Galway account for over 50% of Irish exports. No wonder Cork accounts for so much GDP. It's not the city, it's a few plants.0 -
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Walter H Price wrote: »Dublin Barely feels like a proper city in terms of amenities etc and Cork is long way behind that ... when I hear proper city I think of places in the UK like London , Birmingham , Liverpool and Manchester
Obviously London is huge, but Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham are not much bigger than Dublin. Actually, Manchester and Liverpool would be on a par or even a bit smaller. Lot of suburbia but the centres would be smaller or the same. I have no idea why you think those cities feel more like it than Dublin. Comparing Dublin to Coventry and Norwich - are you joking?
And of the continental cities you listed, again, some are huge but some would be smaller than Dublin. Eindhoven? I've lived in Cork and it's strange, whilst it's quite small, it feels like a proper city. It's not all about population. 0 -
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Quite frankly all it shows to me is that, despite all that is said about Cork having a chip on its shoulder, it's actually a minority of Dublin posters with a massive insecurity complex going on.
It just points to a completely parochial view of the world where they are refusing to see that there are other urban centres in Ireland and at least one that is of a significant enough scale that it is developing into a very pleasant, small European style city.
There are plenty of very viable cities in France and Germany that are Cork sized. Reykjavik is Cork sized, Edinburgh isn't a hell of a lot bigger... I could just keep listing endless examples.
I mean, the arguments being made here are similar to me saying well, Dublin's just a town compared to Paris or a country village compared to Beijing.
We have a population of 4.7 million, and we have and can definitely sustain one small/medium European City and two small European size cities (Cork and Belfast) and three smaller cities that are most definitely serious regional hubs (Limerick, Galway and Waterford).
The fact that you can't even have a logical debate about it in Ireland without a load of ranting and having to justify Cork's existence is just mind boggling.
I would strongly suspect that some of the posters making these assertions have 1. Never set foot in Cork / worked with companies from there or gone shopping there and 2. Probably have very little grasp of economic reality and 3. Have no idea how small Dublin is on the global scale. You can still quite literally see the countryside from the city centre !!
There are times though when I just wonder why Ireland is so weirdly regionalist and in-fighting. It's no wonder planning is so bad.
We should be actually delighted to see our cities growing and thriving, not trying to constantly knock them and imply they're some kind of remote backwaters. Having several decent urban areas is a very, very positive thing.
I spent a few years in Dublin and I came across some bizarre natives. People that had never been outside Ireland or even outside Dublin and they had this illusion of Dublin being one of the world's most important cities and a global metropolis up there with Tokyo, Los Angeles, London and New York. One gob****e was even telling all the foreigners in the office that there was no internet outside Dublin and the scary thing is the guy actually believed it in his own head. 
Dubliner's hate it when the spotlight is not on them. That's why you find them talking Cork down a lot. 0 -
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zetalambda wrote: »I spent a few years in Dublin and I came across some bizarre natives. People that had never been outside Ireland or even outside Dublin and they had this illusion of Dublin being one of the world's most important cities and a global metropolis up there with Tokyo, Los Angeles, London and New York. One gob****e was even telling all the foreigners in the office that there was no internet outside Dublin and the scary thing is the guy actually believed it in his own head.
Dubliner's hate it when the spotlight is not on them. That's why you find them talking Cork down a lot.
This is such utter nonsense. I could easily spout something similar about 1 person from the country and then say "ah sure they're all like that".
I'm from Dublin but have lived and worked outside it also. In my experience Dublin people seldom even mention Cork (or wherever else) or any other county as simply put, they just don't register. I'd say the only time it comes up is when someone from Cork starts going on about how "Cork is the real capital" and all that happens is that the Dubliners in the room just roll their eyes. As for trying to say that Dubliners don't travel. Thats also complete nonsense. I've been to every corner of the map and I know plenty like me.
It reminds me of a girl I used to work with in Belfast. She said to me once "Do you know what we call you Southerners? We call you Mexicans because you're from south of the boarder" *insert her laughing heartily at her own hilarity here* I said "Oh, thats cute. Do you know what we call you? Nothing, because we never even think of you." - Silence.0
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