Doctors charges

shamdrog63

I am fostering a child and am required by TUSLA to complete a "Health Report" so I went to my GP with the form which requires him to answer 12 questions of a routine nature like "is the applicant in good health" or "is the applicant taking any form of regular medication".The only real question requiring him to do anything is t0 answer what height, weight I am plus my BMI and Blood Pressure.For this he requires payment of €104.55.I feel this is extortion.My partner had the same form filled out by her GP for €50.Who can I complain to?
I live in Drogheda by the way if anybody is curious.

Cabaal

shamdrog63 wrote: »

I am fostering a child and am required by TUSLA to complete a "Health Report" so I went to my GP with the form which requires him to answer 12 questions of a routine nature like "is the applicant in good health" or "is the applicant taking any form of regular medication".The only real question requiring him to do anything is t0 answer what height, weight I am plus my BMI and Blood Pressure.For this he requires payment of €104.55.I feel this is extortion.My partner had the same form filled out by her GP for €50.Who can I complain to?
I live in Drogheda by the way if anybody is curious.

Why not just go to the GP that charges 50e?

Doctors can charge varying fees, for example some might charge 60 for a consultation others might charge 35. They are allowed do this, if you don't like it vote with your feet

L1011

shamdrog63 wrote: »

Who can I complain to?

The GP. Private businesses can set their own prices, competition exists.

shamdrog63

If only it were as easy as that.Have you switched doctors lately?Its impossible.My partner can,t even get her daughter into her GP,s practice.Besides I,m a medical card holder so I,m tied to them by miles of red tape.The fee is not covered by the medical card and rightly so and i wouldn,t mind paying a reasonable fee but they want to charge more than I earn per day to answer a few questions most of which merely require a yes or no answer.

antix80

You can complain to whoever ya want. Not going to make a difference.

My advice. Pay fee. Get on with life.

Perhaps ask gp for a discount.

Deagol

Doctors will often drop the price upon request.

My daughter never pays the full amount, she always argues that she's a poor student / unemployed / etc, I don't think she's ever paid more than 30€ for a visit

shamdrog63

antix80 wrote: »

You can complain to whoever ya want. Not going to make a difference.

My advice. Pay fee. Get on with life.

Perhaps ask gp for a discount.

I was looking for advice that somehow helped.I don,t HAVE €104.55 to give to a doctor who knows i can,t continue to foster a 5 yr old child until I pay him this exorbitant fee.

I wish I did medicine instead of pharmacy.

emeldc

Deagol wrote: »

Doctors will often drop the price upon request.

My daughter never pays the full amount, she always argues that she's a poor student / unemployed / etc, I don't think she's ever paid more than 30€ for a visit

I'm sure your daughter will apply the same rate of discount should she ever need to sue him for professional negligence, wont she?

Sleeper12

shamdrog63 wrote:

I was looking for advice that somehow helped.I don,t HAVE €104.55 to give to a doctor who knows i can,t continue to foster a 5 yr old child until I pay him this exorbitant fee.

It's an investment. You will be paid to foster the child.
It does seem expensive.

antix80

shamdrog63 wrote: »

I was looking for advice that somehow helped.I don,t HAVE €104.55 to give to a doctor who knows i can,t continue to foster a 5 yr old child until I pay him this exorbitant fee.

No, you asked who to complain to.

I gave you better advice. 1 ask for discount. 2 get on with life.

dev100

Deleted User wrote:

I wish I did medicine instead of pharmacy.

Has to be sarcasm !!!!

shamdrog63

Ok, its now clear there is nobody i can complain to but I just felt I could at least ask for helpful advice.It appears not.Is it not possible for to ask for helpful advice on this forum without some dick just telling me to suck it up.If you have nothing positive to contribute to a post then why post at all?

L1011

shamdrog63 wrote: »

Ok, its now clear there is nobody i can complain to but I just felt I could at least ask for helpful advice.It appears not.Is it not possible for to ask for helpful advice on this forum without some dick just telling me to suck it up.If you have nothing positive to contribute to a post then why post at all?

You got helpful advice - there is nobody to complain to. If you wanted a different answer you can't claim the actual answer is unhelpful.

Miaireland

I would ask them what exact is causing the increased cost
Maybe ask them if they could print out the relevant information from your medical records and offer to pay for the printing (check the going rate in a nearby internet cafe). Then the Doctor could write on the form see thr attached reports on the form.

meeeeh

OP I don't think it works retrospectively but children under 6 are entitled to free gp card. You will probably have to swallow this one but after that you should enquire about the card.

Miaireland

Forms like this are not covered my the under six card nor medical cards.

intheclouds

shamdrog63 wrote: »

If only it were as easy as that.Have you switched doctors lately?Its impossible.My partner can,t even get her daughter into her GP,s practice.Besides I,m a medical card holder so I,m tied to them by miles of red tape.The fee is not covered by the medical card and rightly so and i wouldn,t mind paying a reasonable fee but they want to charge more than I earn per day to answer a few questions most of which merely require a yes or no answer.

This isn't covered by a medical card so you don't need to switch doctors entirely, just go and see another doctor privately for this matter - one who charges less.

I know it can be difficult to get into a different practice, but usually only if it's an older established practice. There are plenty of newer places that have popped up in the past couple of years who actively advertise for new patients.

shamdrog63

He,s got a medical card as do I but this isn,t covered by it.I feel this is typical of ripoff Ireland.Thanks for ALL the posts even the ones I took issue with as they confirm the futility of fighting this thing.I,ve worked for 35 years and couldn,t sleep at night if i felt i wasn,t earning what I was paid and it galls me to pay so much for something which I really need and which would take so little effort on the doctors behalf.I hope he can sleep at night

whiterebel

shamdrog63 wrote: »

He,s got a medical card as do I but this isn,t covered by it.I feel this is typical of ripoff Ireland.Thanks for ALL the posts even the ones I took issue with as they confirm the futility of fighting this thing.I,ve worked for 35 years and couldn,t sleep at night if i felt i wasn,t earning what I was paid and it galls me to pay so much for something which I really need and which would take so little effort on the doctors behalf.I hope he can sleep at night

If its not covered by the Medical card, go to a different doctor just for the checkup. My local doctor charges €50 per consult, plus €30 if there are bloods required. €104 is crazy if its a straightforward checkup.

Miaireland

If you are considering going to another Doctor check (a) are they willing to fill in the form and (b) would the people who sent you the form accept the form from a Doctor who is not your regular Doctor. Given that it involves a child it might look like you are trying to hide something that your regular Doctor knows. Might be worth baring in mind in case it could create problems long term.

newacc2015

shamdrog63 wrote: »

Ok, its now clear there is nobody i can complain to but I just felt I could at least ask for helpful advice.It appears not.Is it not possible for to ask for helpful advice on this forum without some dick just telling me to suck it up.If you have nothing positive to contribute to a post then why post at all?

I know this is not what you want to hear. But hey, the next time you need someone service related you could just pick up the phone and within 2 mins of phoning a few people you could save yourself some money. Rather than after the fact trying to blame someone else as you didnt check prices. This is not what you want to hear, but it is what you need to hear.

Diziet

"Not what you want to hear, but what you need to hear"? How patronising can you get?

OP, I think you are right to be annoyed, and I do think you should ask the GP for a discount. If the form is that simple, then a standard consult fee should apply. It doesn't hurt to have a quick chat and see if they will amend it.

Deagol

emeldc wrote: »

I'm sure your daughter will apply the same rate of discount should she ever need to sue him for professional negligence, wont she?

Good grief, some people have very warped minds...

antix80

Deagol wrote: »

Good grief, some people have very warped minds...

So much for the free market!

davo10

Diziet wrote: »

"Not what you want to hear, but what you need to hear"? How patronising can you get?

OP, I think you are right to be annoyed, and I do think you should ask the GP for a discount. If the form is that simple, then a standard consult fee should apply. It doesn't hurt to have a quick chat and see if they will amend it.

That's not the way it works unfortunately. This isn't a standard consultation. The GP is being asked to provide a report on the op's health and effectively his/her medical suitability to foster children. The GP will have to stand by that report in the future of it is ever challenged of God forbid the op had a clinical/health issue which led to the child being in danger. People always tend to think these things take 5 minutes, they don't, the appointment takes longer and in most cases the report takes quite a while to prepare.

There is nothing routine about this, the GP is vouching for the OPs health any medical suitability to look after a vulnerable child.

Mech1

how much for a freedom of information held about me request? I have no idea if this is of any use, just a thought.

bisset

I think you should take the issue up with Tusla and /or the Irish Foster Carers Association. Good luck

antix80

shamdrog63 wrote: »

He,s got a medical card as do I but this isn,t covered by it.I feel this is typical of ripoff Ireland.Thanks for ALL the posts even the ones I took issue with as they confirm the futility of fighting this thing.I,ve worked for 35 years and couldn,t sleep at night if i felt i wasn,t earning what I was paid and it galls me to pay so much for something which I really need and which would take so little effort on the doctors behalf.I hope he can sleep at night

Well after he's paid his receptionists, nurse, practice manager, light, heat, professional indemnity cover, car costs, telephone, stationery & printing, accountant, up to 7 years of student debt, professional development costs, a mortgage on the practice, 55% income tax... not to mention the joy of another medical card patient on his books, I'm sure the report fee doesn't make much of a difference one way or another.

*edit Worth noting the €100 fee may include VAT at 23%.

On the bright side the kid you're fostering will net you €352 a week tax-free. Plus child benefit.

So, swings and roundabouts.

davo10

Mech1 wrote: »

how much for a freedom of information held about me request? I have no idea if this is of any use, just a thought.

Around €6, but you will still owe the professional fee.

dusty207

Hope the potential fostered child never sees this thread

meeeeh

antix80 wrote: »

On the bright side the kid you're fostering will net you €352 a week tax-free. Plus child benefit.

So, swings and roundabouts.

Oh yeah kids don't cost any money and take no time. Sure those five-year olds take care of themselves.

That is a typical small minded begrudgery. I bet you wouldn't foster a child if they would pay you three times as much but all you manage are nasty remarks how much someone else will be getting.

davo10

antix80 wrote: »

Worth noting the €100 fee may include VAT at 23%.

No vat on professional medical fees.

dudara

Posters - take it easy on the personal digs please. A few posts here are crossing boundaries. Stick to offering constructive advice to the OP.

dudara

antix80

davo10 wrote: »

No vat on professional medical fees.

This type of fee is vatable.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/medical-services.html

davo10

antix80 wrote: »

This type of fee is vatable.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/medical-services.html

Filling out a report is not subject to vat.

Turtle_

Actually this is disgraceful. If people are taking a needy child into their home and providing them with a safe and caring environment then they shouldn't be out of pocket by that much on an annual basis to have a simple checkup and form filled out that allows them to continue to care for the child. The state ought to be covering that cost.

OP, can you apply for a welfare special grant? The cwo or whatever they're now being called might be able to cover all or part of it. Maybe try the svdp if not?

antix80

davo10 wrote: »

Filling out a report is not subject to vat.

Read the link
Medical Reports for Statutory Purposes e.g. fitness to drive certificates, fitness reports on prospective adopters Standard Rate

Turtle_

antix80 wrote: »

Read the link
Medical Reports for Statutory Purposes e.g. fitness to drive certificates, fitness reports on prospective adopters Standard Rate

I'd say it's €85 ex-VAT...

davo10

antix80 wrote: »

Read the link
Medical Reports for Statutory Purposes e.g. fitness to drive certificates, fitness reports on prospective adopters Standard Rate

I read the link and I fill out reports of this type, there is no vat charged, it comes under professional fees and is taxed as professional income at a higher rate. Even if vat was charged, it would make no difference to what the op is being charged.

antix80

davo10 wrote: »

I read the link and I fill out reports of this type, there is no vat charged, it comes under professional fees and is taxed as professional income at a higher rate. Even if vat was charged, it would make no difference to what the op is being charged.

It's there in black & white! Besides i didnt say the op's gp charges vat. Just that they may be required to depending on business activities and levels of turnover.

davo10

antix80 wrote: »

It's there in black & white! Besides i didnt say the op's gp charges vat. Just that they may be required to depending on business activities and levels of turnover.

Sent you a PM regarding this, I don't want to derail thread.

MelachiT

antix80 wrote: »

On the bright side the kid you're fostering will net you €352 a week tax-free. Plus child benefit.

So, swings and roundabouts.

Only €325 per week as the child is under 12.

Op did you say you are already fostering the child? If so then the fostering allowance should cover the cost no problem.
But I do get your point, it is an extortionate amount to charge. I guess the only thing you can do it complain to the doctor himself.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

I read the link and I fill out reports of this type, there is no vat charged, it comes under professional fees and is taxed as professional income at a higher rate. Even if vat was charged, it would make no difference to what the op is being charged.

You may be in for a shock in future

Revenue have targeted doctors who do abnormal amounts of reports as they are entirely VAT-able. Most would be under the threshold but some are not. Trauma specialists who do huge volumes of PIAB reports were the first targets

shamdrog63

Thanks folks for all your advice, even the unsympathetic begrudging ones.I seem to have generated a lively debate.I initially posted before I had cooled down and have subsequently discovered that TUSLA will refund this fee but I will not be swayed that charging €104.55 to fill out a 12 question form, with 9 of the answers being either a yes or no and the only task required is to take my blood pressure (which has rocketed) is exorbitant and it just as bad if they think sure its ok wont the taxpayer pick up the tab.I may as a medical card holder be some sort of subspecies in Antic80,s eyes "not to mention the joy of another medical card patient on his books," but I have worked and paid taxes for 35 years and abhor the culture that thinks that state money is there to be bled dry.

antix80

shamdrog63 wrote: »

.. but I will not be swayed that charging €104.55 to fill out a 12 question form, with 9 of the answers being either a yes or no and the only task required is to take my blood pressure (which has rocketed) is exorbitant and it just as bad if they think sure its ok wont the taxpayer pick up the tab..

Op, the irony here is you're begruding a taxpayer a modest professional fee of €100 while the actual costs of the placement run into hundreds of thousands of euros - including the medical report - all paid for out of public funds! Have some perspective!

shamdrog63

If you think the fee is justified then i think you would find in most reasonable peoples minds, that its you who is lacking in perspective.My partners doctor feels that she can perform the task for less than half what my doctor is seeking.

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

You may be in for a shock in future

Revenue have targeted doctors who do abnormal amounts of reports as they are entirely VAT-able. Most would be under the threshold but some are not. Trauma specialists who do huge volumes of PIAB reports were the first targets

Yip, heared that every year for the last 20 years. I wonder which Revenue would prefer, the higher rate of tax paid on professional fees income over the threshold, which lets be fair is every GP, or messing around with Vat on occasional reports?

Most GP's are not Vat registered.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

Yip, heared that every year for the last 20 years. I wonder which Revenue would prefer, the higher rate of tax paid on professional fees income over the threshold, which lets be fair is every GP, or messing around with Vat on occasional reports?

Most GP's are not Vat registered.

The first enforcement I was aware of was in 2012, and I would have been aware if it was widespread at all back to 2007 - so very unlikely you've been hearing it for 20 years.

Most practices which would be liable (there is a VAT threshold, remember) are limited companies with salaried staff GPs, not sole traders so sole trader tax arrangements are irrelevant.

It would not be hard for a multi-GP practice of the scale quite common in Dublin these days to hit the VAT threshold at all when you look at the full scope of VAT-able fees - administrative charges for letters, eyesight reports, PIAB reports, etc, etc. None of these are considered professional fees by Revenue and yes, they do enforce this when they feel its worth it.

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

The first enforcement I was aware of was in 2012, and I would have been aware if it was widespread at all back to 2007 - so very unlikely you've been hearing it for 20 years.

Most practices which would be liable (there is a VAT threshold, remember) are limited companies with salaried staff GPs, not sole traders so sole trader tax arrangements are irrelevant.

It would not be hard for a multi-GP practice of the scale quite common in Dublin these days to hit the VAT threshold at all when you look at the full scope of VAT-able fees - administrative charges for letters, eyesight reports, PIAB reports, etc, etc. None of these are considered professional fees by Revenue and yes, they do enforce this when they feel its worth it.

Clear some space in your PM bank, I don't think anyone is interested in reading about this stuff, I tried to send you a PM but your storage is full.

Suffice to say, the vast majority of GPs are sole practitioners responsible for paying tax on their own fees, very, very few are salaried working for corporate business's, most are not vat registered so do not charge vat on services because almost all day to day services provided are vat exempt. Even large practices tend to be co-op's rather than single companies.

GerardKeating

shamdrog63 wrote: »

I am fostering a child and am required by TUSLA to complete a "Health Report" so I went to my GP with the form which requires him to answer 12 questions of a routine nature like "is the applicant in good health" or "is the applicant taking any form of regular medication".The only real question requiring him to do anything is t0 answer what height, weight I am plus my BMI and Blood Pressure.For this he requires payment of €104.55.I feel this is extortion.My partner had the same form filled out by her GP for €50.Who can I complain to?
I live in Drogheda by the way if anybody is curious.

But if both Doctors changed the same fee, you might be screaming "Price Fixing Cartel"..

What the cost of a "regular visit" between yours and your partners GP?