management company think there is a leak

gauchesnell

hey

looking for some advice please.

My landlord got a call from the management company to say they think there is a leak coming from my kitchen into the carpark. I am on the ground floor.
Landlord just asked me to give the company a call.

There is no leak in the apartment. I would have noticed. The floorboards in the bathroom get a bit wet during baths etc but no leak.

My landlord isnt one to call around (met him once in 8 years) and I have no problems. Did a double check of the apartment and there is no leak.

Do I have to let the management company into my apt. It would mean taking a day off which I cant do at the moment anyway.

Kings Inns or bust

Reasonable access is probably a term of your lease and the head lease. If you can't do it then I would suggest letting the LL do it by entering the apartment and letting the OMC's contractor in. It would be infinitely preferable, in my mind, to do it myself but needs must.

irlirishkev

You might not see it. It could be coming from an internal pipe and running down a hidden part of a wall somewhere.

In my experience, Management Companies maintanance people are usually pretty good at attending on say, a Saturday morning if required. I'd give them a ring if I were you, just to see what the possibilites are.

Paulw

In many contracts, the management company have a right of access for an emergency situation. If a water leak is considered an emergency is something that could be argued.

You should attempt to make arrangements for them to get access as soon as it is suitable.

Claw Hammer

It is usual for the management company to retain a right of inspection. Your own landlord will most likely have done likewise. Even if the leak is not coming from your apartment it may help if the management co. can eliminate your unit as the source of the leak.

gordongekko

Seems a reasonable request. They are just trying to find a leak. Give them access.

ArthurG

Let them in for heavens sake.

Mrs OBumble

Just call them!

Find out when they propose coming. If necessary (ie they want to come when you can't be there) make it the LL's problem back again.

gauchesnell

sorry for moaning but I did call them today and the whole thing is a joke.

They wished to for me to let them in between 11 and 2 Mon to Fri and see if there was a leak. They didnt want me to stay with them though. I was to leave them alone in the apt. They only suspect something aswell and it is not urgent at all.

Apologies for coming across as a moan but unfortunately I work full time 7 days a week at the moment and next day off is probably October if I am lucky. If It was urgent I would totally do it.

I have had limited contact with the various management companies in my complex over the years and they have been generally useless at handling anything. I am talking broken exterior doors, criminal activity in apartments, a brothel at one stage, drug taking and homeless people in the car park etc etc. Even as I write one of the exterior doors in the complex is smashed.

While it might seem minor I do not feel comfortable letting people I dont know gain access to my apartment while I am not there. Even when I rang them I asked the person to confirm their name to me and he was quite unwilling. Normally when I had an issue (i.e broken washing machine) the landlord sends his own electrician and I am happy for him to come and go as he likes.

Surely aswell a suspected leak is between me and landlord. Especially when noone else is affected as I am on the ground floor.

Advice welcome.

brianomc

My neighbours had a leak in their bathroom, it went unnoticed as it was under the bath and only came to light when our sitting room floor went all warped. It had slowly seeped through the concrete wall and our floor was wrecked. So you might not see it but it could easily be there.
Seems very odd that they dont want you there though. Whatever about maybe sitting in another room and not watching over their shoulders but to not be in the apartment at all is a bit much.

Afroshack

gauchesnell wrote: »

sorry for moaning but I did call them today and the whole thing is a joke.

They wished to for me to let them in between 11 and 2 Mon to Fri and see if there was a leak. They didnt want me to stay with them though. I was to leave them alone in the apt. They only suspect something aswell and it is not urgent at all.

Apologies for coming across as a moan but unfortunately I work full time 7 days a week at the moment and next day off is probably October if I am lucky. If It was urgent I would totally do it.

I have had limited contact with the various management companies in my complex over the years and they have been generally useless at handling anything. I am talking broken exterior doors, criminal activity in apartments, a brothel at one stage, drug taking and homeless people in the car park etc etc. Even as I write one of the exterior doors in the complex is smashed.

While it might seem minor I do not feel comfortable letting people I dont know gain access to my apartment while I am not there. Even when I rang them I asked the person to confirm their name to me and he was quite unwilling. Normally when I had an issue (i.e broken washing machine) the landlord sends his own electrician and I am happy for him to come and go as he likes.

Surely aswell a suspected leak is between me and landlord. Especially when noone else is affected as I am on the ground floor.

Advice welcome.

A suspected leak will of course affect others - if pipes are leaking around the building then it needs to be identified and fixed asap. I agree that wanting to come between those hours are a bit unreasonable and they should try to be flexible - but flexibility goes both ways. Either book a day off or allow them acess without you. You can't really have it both ways and you can't ignore the leak until October!

gauchesnell

I appreciate that but I will in no way be able to get a day off work for the foreseeable future and there is no flexibility in my work at all. To let them have access would mean taking a day off.

Unfortunately my work is not within my control at the moment. Again it is only a suspected leak.

To be honest I am a bit suspicious - as I mentioned the complex as a whole needs a lot of work and nothing is happening or as ever happened. The security of the complex is always compromised due to constant broken doors - as in the smashed exterior door has been broken for over a week.

And it is totally not affecting anyone..even if it is coming from my apt. That was my first question to the person the phone. The carpark in my complex is not well used as again it is not the safest of places.

An internal leak (if present) is surely between me and landlord.

athtrasna

If there's an underground car park then it's a much bigger issue than you and your landlord.

intheclouds

I'm sorry but I just don't believe that you are out of the apartment 24-7 and cannot give ANY access. Why don't you give them evening access? Or is there no one you could ask to let them in? Or could you not give them a key that they then post back in your letterbox when they're finished?

I also find it strange that you are working 7 day weeks and won't have a day off until October, what do you do for a living? I doubt it's legal for someone to work a month straight without a day off?

If it's just you not wanting to engage then tell the landlord to arrange the access, presumably he has a key?

What do you mean that the floorboards get wet when you use the bath? Bath water is normally contained in the bath, I don't understand how the floorboards are getting wet?

gauchesnell

The floorboards get a little wet when I get out of the bath from my hair thats all. Only a few drips. Unfortunately at present I am out of the apt most of the time. At present I am working a full 7 day week and at present no leave can be granted.It is a peak time where I work so just an unfortunate coincidence. Totally not me not wanting to engage. I am just able to give access at present as I am at work and they will not accommodate me for anything outside 11-2 on a weekday. My LL is not in Dublin.

so things have taken an even stranger turn - so this person (allegedly from the management company) called my landlord again saying I hadnt made contact.

My landlord called me and I immediately called the number provided.

The person the phone loses the plot on me. Saying I shouldnt have rang them as the number provided was only for emergencies. Basically shouting down the phone at me.

Bizarre. I texted my LL again advising him that I made contact with the person and let him know that the person was abusive to me and that I shouldnt have called him at all.

Dont know what to think.

jd

Management Companies often just deal with the owner of the property. The landlord should really sort this out with the OMC and provide them with the required access. Tough if it doesn't suit him, particularly if he's an "amateur" landlord.

One other thing, the management company own the structure of the building, your landlord has a (very long) lease.

jd

gauchesnell wrote: »

To be honest I am a bit suspicious - as I mentioned the complex as a whole needs a lot of work and nothing is happening or as ever happened. The security of the complex is always compromised due to constant broken doors - as in the smashed exterior door has been broken for over a week.
.

That is a separate issue, I suspect there may be a shortage of funds, usual reason apartment "owners" being tardy or in arrears with their service charges.

Claw Hammer

I wouldn't let anyone in unless there was a request in writing and I knew who it was. I have experience of receivers getting in to apartments saying there is a leak and then simply shutting everything down and effectively throwing out the tenant. On no account should you leave someone on their own in the apartment. You could well come back to find the locks changed and your belongings in a skip.

brianomc

I know you're fairly happy to let them in at this stage when you are there, but just to emphasise that leaks can go unnoticed and do damage, the picture I found is of my sitting room with the floorboards taken up. The neighbours bathroom was on the other side of the wall.
I actually thought I had wrecked the floor by mopping it, for the first and last time ever I might add. I was taking no chances after that. It might have been visibly warped/boards separating for 2-3 months before we did anything about it which didn't help.

gauchesnell

thanks for all the advice.

I do appreciate that leaks do go unnoticed. I think the method they are using is a bit strange. I am going to query this with the PRTB aswell. I dont want anyone gaining accesss to my apartment without my permission.

What I will do is arrange a plumber myself to call out. If any knows a good plumber in Dublin City please PM me.

garhjw

OP, I think you need to exercise common sense here and allow access. I think you have a couple of options.
1. Advise the landlord and/or mgmt company of times you will be there and can allow access.
2. Allow access but with the landlord present if you can't be there.

Refusing access is very unreasonable.

Claw Hammer

gauchesnell wrote: »

thanks for all the advice.

I do appreciate that leaks do go unnoticed. I think the method they are using is a bit strange. I am going to query this with the PRTB aswell. I dont want anyone gaining accesss to my apartment without my permission.

What I will do is arrange a plumber myself to call out. If any knows a good plumber in Dublin City please PM me.

You can only complain to the RTB about your own landlord. You will have to complain that your right to quiet enjoyment is being interfered with. You should try and find out if your landlord is in financial difficulty. That guy who doesn't want his phone rung sounds like a security operative. The banks try and disguise their activities by contracting out jobs to security companies, who then contract yet another company. They pretend to know nothing after the eviction.

looksee

The whole thing sounds a bit dodgy! Do you know (outside this current discussion) who the management company is? Could you contact them with a number you have identified for yourself. Have you reverse searched that number that was claimed to be an emergency number? Even if it was an emergency number that is a very odd reply. The person answering had obviously been on to the landlord from that number, so would have known about the situation, why the upset about it being emergency.

As for you not being there, that is ridiculous. What if you had no reason to be out at that stage? Are you expected to leave the apartment and go elsewhere for the duration? I would be looking for a lot more information. You say you have not seen the landlord in 8 years, how do you know it was the landlord that contacted you?

Claw Hammer

looksee wrote: »

As for you not being there, that is ridiculous. What if you had no reason to be out at that stage? Are you expected to leave the apartment and go elsewhere for the duration? I would be looking for a lot more information. You say you have not seen the landlord in 8 years, how do you know it was the landlord that contacted you?

This is a complete scam. The o/p could come back to find the toilet disconnected and removed, the shower disconnected and removed, the waste water outlets blocked and there would be damn all he could do. Only a named reputable builder with headed notepaper and a liveried van should be let near the place.

jd

Leaks may not be apparent. About a year after I moved in the guy downstairs was on to me to say there was a leak coming down. Luckily the builders were still around, and we were able to find the leak - it was below the boiler and we could only get to it by chipping away on some plaster (luckily not below our flooring).

OP, when you rang the number given by the landlord was it the agent for the OMC who answered?

gauchesnell

I agree. It is weird and thanks for that. I appreciate your replies.

I have never met these Management Company people or even seen them onsite. The Management Company has changed over the years. As I mentioned when I rang the number yes it was apparently the Management Company but this is also a man who lives in the block aswell.

Anyway I emailed the management company aswell and addressed my email to the property manager. I laid out everything that had happened and havent heard back yet. The property manager and the man I spoke to are 2 different people.

Why when I rang this person he started to shout at me I have no idea.

As i said above I am going to get my own plumber in. If anyone can recommend one please PM.

jd

The Management Company does not change, but the Manging Agents they employ do. If the person who answered the phone lives in the same block I suspect he is one of the directors of the Owner's Management Company, and not the Management Agent. The Management Agent is the person who deals with day to day affairs. I think your landlord gave you the wrong number, perhaps?

gauchesnell

I think they did change.

The name of the management company has completed changed - it was originally called xxxx with an official website etc.

It is now called yyyy....at a totally different a diffent address.

The property manager still hasnt written back to me though. Even weirder

The LL is legit. He doesnt bother me which is great but he is legit and to be honest very good. Any other problems I had I have given access to his plumber/electrician.

Totally not comfortable giving access to the person I was speaking on the phone with

looksee

So far they have established you are rarely in. Presumably they have keys to the property. If you are immediately above the carpark and can see no evidence of a leak from the area under your apartment I would be inclined to stall them.

Have your neighbours either side been contacted? Water travels, just because someone thinks there is a leak in one place does not mean that is where the leak is.

Contact your landlord and explain why you are not willing to allow this access, see if you can establish what he knows about them and how he is confident it is a legit phone number. If you are not getting anywhere, write down the sequence of events with phone numbers and go into the local garda station with it. Unless there is something very significant that we have not been told it sounds like a complicated scam to me.

jd

gauchesnell wrote: »

I think they did change.

The name of the management company has completed changed - it was originally called xxxx with an official website etc.

It is now called yyyy....at a totally different a diffent address.

That happens quite often, the apartment owners who make up the management company may change their agent if they think they can get a better price or service.

gauchesnell

ah ok thanks a million for all the replies.

I agree that the leak could be anywhere and is not urgent.

There is a lot of construction work going on all around me...in apartments near me and all around.

I do appreciate though that I could have a leak and not noticed so I will get a plumber in myself. I will put an ad up on tradesmen and see I can find a plumber here aswell.

What I really suspicious is the person shouting down the phone to me and still no reply from the Property Manager.

jd

Ask the landlord whose number did he give you. It's possible he gavu you the number of one of the owner directors, which he shouldn't have.
Is there remediation work going on in the apartment complex?

gauchesnell

there is loads of work being carried out on the exterior directly outside my apartment

OMG totally forgot about that.

There is scaffolding directly outside my windows and the whole front of the complex. Didnt even think about that.

Apartments above me are also being renovated aswell.

jd

Get back to the landlord and clarify what is going on.

You might think he is great, but as a member of the Management Company he has obligations there. I hope he has been going to his management company meetings more than once in the last eight years!

gauchesnell

I am going to leave it now I think. I appreciate all the advice.

I have had more hassle in the last few days about this and to be honest it is stressful. I have actually lived in my apt for 7 years and 3 months and this is the most hassle I have ever had.

i texted my LL last nite to confirm that I did as instructed i.e make contact with the number provided. When I did that I was shouted at for calling the number. I have also emailed the property manger to advise of the him of the conversation I had with this person.

I have begin a search for a plumber in the meantime.

I dont think anyone - no matter what their concern or role is - should shout down the phone at me. I dont think I have done anything wrong.

jd

One other thing to remember is that The OMC do have a legal right of access in certain circumstances

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/2/section/13/enacted/en/html#sec13

gauchesnell

I agree however surely as was stated before flexibility works both ways.

I have only just arrived back to my apt and like im sure a lot of people I left at 7.45am That is my normal day.

What I am concerned about is being shouted at down the phone. The person I was speaking to is not listed as one of the Directors. I found the listed Directors on a sign but the company address is also the address of the apt complex. The person I was speaking to is also not the property manager. Maybe he works for the company or works for the property manager I dont know but why he was so aggressive with me I dont know.

Surely the property manager should contact me

Trust me I wont ignore this. I will contact a plumber and get them in to check the apt. Any repairs needed will be done.

the_syco

gauchesnell wrote: »

They wished to for me to let them in between 11 and 2 Mon to Fri and see if there was a leak. They didnt want me to stay with them though. I was to leave them alone in the apt. They only suspect something aswell and it is not urgent at all.

Have to say, those are some very specific times. Them telling you to stay out of the apartment is even odder; would wonder how much damage they do, and would they pay to fix it? If, as you said, nothing is visible, and with all the construction work being done around you, I'd wonder what they'd plan to rip up?

gauchesnell

THANKS - I appreciate that.

Any why shout at me.

No reply from the property manager either despite 2 calls to me and my LL from a person who works with him.

Bizarre

K.Flyer

My 2 cents worth as a contractor for several management companies and often sent to investigate leaks.
First off, leaks can cause serious damage to property and very often where the leak originated from may be completely unaffected by it.
Secondly, very very often the occupier of the property that has the leak may be blissfully unaware of the trouble being caused by it and the damage occuring elswhere.
Also, a cursory glance around the kitchen, bathrooms and hotpress rarely finds anything. You need to know what you are looking for and most likely where you are going to find it.
Thirdly, if leaks are not repaired, or landlords / tenants cause delays in allowing access to repair or locate them, then more damage is going to be created which in turn is going to cost more money to repair.
If this cost is being carried by the management company, then these extra costs eventually trickle down to owners / landlords and tenants due to increased service charges if there have been too many unexpected costs through the year.
Next, We ALWAYS prefer that the occupier of the property IS PRESENT during any initial investigations to locate problems. I have Never heard any of the companies I do work for insisting that occupiers be out of the property. Never.
If the problem is found to be internal to the apartment, e.g. leaking washing machine, toilet, shower etc and not a common or shared pipe, it is noted, photographed and reported to the owner and it is their responsibility to rectify it immediately.
Sometimes pipework is almost inaccessible. And in order to get at it it may be necessary to pull the place asunder, but only as much as is needed. We have had to strip out bathroom and kitchens and bedrooms to get at pipes, but it was always put back as it was before including painting and decorating.
Other than an initial inspection, the accessing and repairing work cannot be done outside normal working hours, because it can be very noisy and disrupts other apartments.
It is your and your landlords responsibility to accommodate any investigation that is required, after all, how would you feel if there was a leak in the apartment above yours and the people above were not cooperating to allow it to be rectified while your stuff was getting ruined.

gauchesnell

Cool I appreciate that but they key word is that you are a professional contractor. You can call no worries and I dont expect for a contractor to start shouting at me down the phone when I call them.

But I do think I am right in being wary of someone wanting to come into my apartment when I am not there.Remember this person is not the property manager. This person as far as I am aware is not a contractor but someone who might be in the management company or someone who works for the management company but who also lives in the building. I have never seen or heard of this person and I have lived there for 7 years.

I have lived there quite a while so over the years I had painters, electricians and plumbers in no worries. Spare keys given and they work away. But there were people I met in advance and known by the landlord. I even moved out for a week so any work needed could be done. No hassle. I even had my own electrician in once as something tripped the trip switch and it was urgent. I think I have given the impression I dont like professionals coming to my apartment.

And again I am not going to ignore this issue. I am going to get a plumber in to check the apt. Proving a little challenging to find one yet but I will. At least a professional will hopefully work around my work commitments at the moment.

That is also a good point. When the Management Company called it was not we think there is a leak would you mind arranging with this professional serviceperson to call and review. It was I am the Management Company and I want to come in. Not the property manager.

???

jd

Your landlord should sort this for you rather than giving you numbers of God knows who to ring. It's his apartment, he's a member of the owners' management company, and tough for him if he doesn't live in Dublin. You pay him rent and as part of the service he provides to you he should make the arrangements.

As I said, the number he gave you to ring seems like it is the number of another owner who happens to be a director of the OMC. The property manager I guess works for the managing agent retained by the OMC. Ring up the landlord and ask him to sort things out.Also ask him who exactly are these different people including the person he told you to ring.

gauchesnell

This person is not one of the Directors. I have checked that out already.

jd

gauchesnell wrote:

This person is not one of the Directors. I have checked that out already.

Are you sure you checked the directors of the Owners Management Company and not that of the Management Agent.

You said before that the Management Company changed, but it's not the Management Company that changes, it's their Agent.

gauchesnell

100% checked. Not listed. I was getting confused before but no not one of the Directors.

Not one of the Owners Management Company and not a Director of the Management Company Ltd (the agent)

I think he lives in same block and may work or do work for the property manager or for the Management Company Ltd (the agent). But defo not a Director. The complex I live in has hundreds of apts so dont know where he lives but he knows where I live.

There used to be a handyman/property manager some time ago but he got sacked for being useless. He was called B. I think he knew B aswell.

Surely though the Owners Management Company or the agent (Property Manager) would ask to send in a professional / contractor in if there was a query?

TheChizler

Who's the property manager? OMC or agent?

OP do you have any friends or family who could be there?

gauchesnell

I have written to the property manager who works for the agent following this person shouting at me and havent heard back. I outlined the name of the person, their query and what my suggestions are to resolve the problem.

The more I write about it the more dodgy it sounds.

I wrote to the property manager on wednesday and got no reply yet.

athtrasna

The bottom line is you shouldn't be involved at all. The management company should be interacting with your landlord who should be dealing with it.

Turtle_

Go to the Gardaí and say you believe there's a scam to gain access to apartments. Appreciate there isn't much they can do but informing them so they can have the information should it become needed.

Tell your ll that your contents insurance would be invalidated if you gave access to an unknown person when you weren't there and that the plumber will have to suit your times. Also tell him you gave the info to the Gardaí, that you just don't believe this situation is kosher at all.

gauchesnell

thanks all will do.

I will call to the Garda station in the morning.

I was actually nervous coming back to the apt this evening in case there was a leak and the place was flooded or in case this person is there.

Horrifying thought this person knows who I am but I dont know them.

jd

gauchesnell wrote:

Horrifying thought this person knows who I am but I dont know them.

The person who shouted down the phone to you?
The landlord gave you his number, ask him!

Ring the landlord before you go down to any Garden Station, and find out is who before you offer a theory of some type of scam going on!