I don't do enough miles to drive a diesel car?

pkvader

Long story short my wife and I drive two Peugeot 3008 diesel cars,we do very short journeys,both of us work close to home and both our parents live close by etc etc.We only bought them because we had our 2nd child last year,(they are ideal with the raised seats and hidden boot etc).Basically,we've had major trouble with both cars,(part of it is down to me not getting them checked regularly),problems with carbon building up,dpf filter blocking etc,all steming from us not doing enough miles.

Anyway,we were told petrol cars would be more suitable for what we are doing,is it just me but are petrol saloon cars dying out?,looking on carzone it seems to be all diesels.

Have any of you that have diesel cars and do short/medium miles experienced problems? ,

Cee-Jay-Cee

Not being smart or anything but people like you and your wife are the reason there are very few petrol cars available anymore. The great irish public jumped on the cheap tax diesel bandwagon back in 2008 when the government of the day royally fcuked up the motor tax system and its only now that the whole stupidity of it is being realised. People doing less than 8k kms a year were buying more expensive diesel cars so they could save €200 a year on tax.

ba_barabus

Op I'd recommend you take a look at the excellent range of Toyota Hybrids or even investigate an all electric Nissan Leaf

CiniO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

People doing less than 8k kms a year were buying more expensive diesel cars so they could save €200 a year on tax.

It's not only motortax.
VRT is based on CO2 emissions, which makes cheaper petrol cars, cost more in Ireland, very often maching the price of diesels (at least it used to few years ago when petrols were of higher CO2 emissions than diesels).

DublinDilbert

It's more like diesel cars are dying out. Renault said if emissions targets change (which they will) diesels will be uneconomic to produce.

Hybrid or plug in hybrid the way to go, if all electric doesn't suit.

ABC101

Diesels are best suited to long intercity journeys, Dublin -Waterford etc.

Short journeys wreck Diesel engines as they never warm up to temperature and eventually lead to very large repair bills.

Petrol engines have been improved upon, mid thirties and some even pushing low forties. Again dependant on type of car etc, the smaller petrol cars would be very economical or Suzuki Celereo etc

Petrols did fade away after 2008 but they are now making a comeback.

bazz26

OP should consider a hybrid car like the Toyota Auris and Prius or a plug in electric car like the Nissan Leaf also.

pkvader

I didn't buy the Peugeots because I was saving in tax etc,I didn't care If it was petrol or diesel,I was buying purely because they were suited to my expanding family.
I didn't know enough about diesel cars tbh,I didn't realise that small milage wasn't good for them,I learned an expensive lesson.Looking a a Corolla saloon petrol now, not many around though.

pkvader

ba_barabus wrote: »

Op I'd recommend you take a look at the excellent range of Toyota Hybrids or even investigate an all electric Nissan Leaf

I know a fella that has a Prius,he loves it,might be worth looking into alright.

ABC101

You should be ok with any jap petrol car, you canna beat the japs !

monkeysnapper

I sold my 2003 DSL car last year for 3000 because my job changed and bought a 2006 small ish petrol car for 2300 , it turns out car is as economic on fuel. Cheaper to run.

I'm already thinking about my next car and realisticly I'm a 2010/12 and I agree a decent petrol cars are harder to find.

pudzey101

OP if everything is so close to you both id suggest getting a bicycle , no tax insurance or NCT and cheap to run


Joking , but like said above hybrid prius maybe best suited or electrics such as Nissan LEAF , Peugeot iOn
BMW i3 , Renault Z.E.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Im looking for an automatic saloon in the 10-13k range and all I can find are Diesels. Our car would get short trips to the shops every few days, and a good rattle on the motorway twice a month. I don't think we're suited to a diesel at all, but I'm struggling to find anything else!

NIMAN

If we are honest, sales of diesel did go through the roof because they were cheaper to tax and people thought they would get much better mileage from them. End of.

Sometimes buyers use a silly figure like that to justify spending a few extra thousand on a car. PEtrols were cheaper to buy and so would have offset the slightly more expensive tax, but if you look at any car advert now, the tax figure is usually one of the first things listed as if its the most important thing about the car.

Of course if you are doing big miles and a good long commute then a diesel will get you more mpgs than a petrol. But the problem is that 80% of new cars sold since 08 have been diesel, and you have to remember how many of these cars would have been in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford etc etc. Many probably did not suit the use of a diesel engine, but prospective buyers were rarely warned about this, the salesmen were probably just happy to get the sale.

I know myself when I came to get an MPV a few years back, I visited about 5 or 6 dealers to look at the likes of FR-V, Zafira, Mazda5, S-Max, etc, and only one salesman asked me what type of driving I would be doing. When I told him it would be back and forward to babysitter, to in-laws, and on school runs (all short distances) he advised me to avoid diesel as I'd end up with hefty repair bills. He was a Vauxhall dealer in Derry.

I was recently chatting to the guy who does work on my cars, and he told me he has been kept busy since 08 with people coming in with DPF lights on etc on their dashes. Often these lead to big repair bills.

ABC101

DPF filters seem to be around 2000 euro... and from what I heard.... that is the same for all brands. Changing a DPF filter can be complex task for some cars, I heard some Audi's have to have the front suspension dropped!
Diesels are not suited to city driving, in fact I think there are plans to ban diesels in Paris from 202X.
City nox / smog may not be so much of a problem in windy Ireland, but if we are to be honest there will be health effects for everybody, especially as we age.
The events with diesel have been a learning curve (for some very costly) over the last 10 years. Yes there are drivers out there who know their engines and how to get the best out of them. But the majority of drivers just want 4 wheels, 4 doors and as economically cheap as possible to get from A-B.
If EU emission targets continue to tighten, not only will diesel engined cars disappear, but so too will petrol.
By 2030 I think we will all be driving EV, perhaps with a range extender genny in the back.
Until then manufacturers are developing other technologies, Subaru have developed a petrol engine running on a Atkinson cycle, getting 40mpg for a AWD Forester which is most impressive for that type of car / transmission system.
BMW recently brought out a 330e, looks great and gets two grants on the purchase price! And of course the Toyota Prius and Nissan Leaf both of which it just seems to get better and better.

Atlantic Dawn

pkvader wrote: »

I didn't buy the Peugeots because I was saving in tax etc,I didn't care If it was petrol or diesel,I was buying purely because they were suited to my expanding family.
I didn't know enough about diesel cars tbh,I didn't realise that small milage wasn't good for them,I learned an expensive lesson.Looking a a Corolla saloon petrol now, not many around though.

Did the salesperson not inform you of the need for long runs with the diesel car? I'd think again about putting business their way if they didn't.

nice_guy80

dpf filters cost 2000?

since when?

ABC101

nice_guy80 wrote: »

dpf filters cost 2000?

since when?

from the AA

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html


Expensive repairs

If you continue to ignore warnings and soot loading keeps increasing then the car won t run properly and the most likely outcome will be that you will have to get a new DPF costing at least 1000 plus labour and diagnostic time.

Not sure what labour costs are these days, but must be over 100e / hour for most garages etc.

And of course VAT to be added.... the Govt always gets it's cut!

colm_mcm

There may not even have been a petrol 3008 available at the time?

unkel

pkvader wrote: »

are petrol saloon cars dying out?

Thankfully it is diesel cars that will be on the way out soon. The CEO of Volkswagen, the biggest producer of diesel cars, said so himself recently

And it seems some people chose to ignore the fact that diesel vehicles are a major cause of cancer. From the front page of last week's Sunday Times:

"Diesel is the No 1 source of toxic air pollutants. Diesel particulates are carcinogenic and highly damaging to human organs"

colm_mcm

But fir the average Joe diesel is still a reality. Try buying something like a used Focus or Mondeo in petrol
Diesel is on the way out at some stage, but it's still doing the business for the manufacturers. Even VW who have a nice petrol engine range are still selling huge numbers of diesel.

XR3i

pkvader wrote: »

Long story short my wife and I drive two Peugeot 3008 diesel cars,we do very short journeys,both of us work close to home and both our parents live close by etc etc.We only bought them because we had our 2nd child last year,(they are ideal with the raised seats and hidden boot etc).Basically,we've had major trouble with both cars,(part of it is down to me not getting them checked regularly),problems with carbon building up,dpf filter blocking etc,all steming from us not doing enough miles.

Anyway,we were told petrol cars would be more suitable for what we are doing,is it just me but are petrol saloon cars dying out?,looking on carzone it seems to be all diesels.

Have any of you that have diesel cars and do short/medium miles experienced problems? ,

dats de problem dere

colm_mcm

Should have bought a Ford (with the same engine)

audi12

pkvader wrote: »

Long story short my wife and I drive two Peugeot 3008 diesel cars,we do very short journeys,both of us work close to home and both our parents live close by etc etc.We only bought them because we had our 2nd child last year,(they are ideal with the raised seats and hidden boot etc).Basically,we've had major trouble with both cars,(part of it is down to me not getting them checked regularly),problems with carbon building up,dpf filter blocking etc,all steming from us not doing enough miles.

Anyway,we were told petrol cars would be more suitable for what we are doing,is it just me but are petrol saloon cars dying out?,looking on carzone it seems to be all diesels.

Have any of you that have diesel cars and do short/medium miles experienced problems? ,

Puegout are rubbish cars buy a reliable make

bazz26

Sure nothing is as good as a 14 year old Audi right?

Geuze

Diesel is 15 cent cheaper per litre.

That gap surely encourages the purchase of diesel cars??

The UK tax both fuels equally.

Geuze

A quick question:

I do 50 trips per annum of 280km return, typically weekly, [14,000 km] plus other local driving, plus 400 km trips maybe 5 times per year.

Does my driving justify diesel?

audi12

bazz26 wrote: »

Sure nothing is as good as a 14 year old Audi right?

I have my car four years and not so much as a rattle out of it flyes through the nct so yeah puts newer cars to shame but a vw, toyota cant go wrong is what I tell everyone.

Atlantic Dawn

Geuze wrote: »

A quick question:

I do 50 trips per annum of 280km return, typically weekly, [14,000 km] plus other local driving, plus 400 km trips maybe 5 times per year.

Does my driving justify diesel?

Yes it does, however you should also factor in your cost to change from your current car.

colm_mcm

Geuze wrote: »

A quick question:

I do 50 trips per annum of 280km return, typically weekly, [14,000 km] plus other local driving, plus 400 km trips maybe 5 times per year.

Does my driving justify diesel?

The long trips should balance out the local driving

twin_beacon

pkvader wrote: »

I didn't know enough about diesel cars tbh,I didn't realise that small milage wasn't good for them,I learned an expensive lesson.Looking a a Corolla saloon petrol now, not many around though.

most people didn't know that about diesel engines in fairness. Can't really go wrong with a corolla, very reliable car.

Diesel will be around for a very long time to come in some shape or form, until there is a replacement fuel for large vehicles like lorries and tractors. We are still a good few years away from the large family tdi being a obsolete.

Den14

unkel wrote:

And it seems some people chose to ignore the fact that diesel vehicles are a major cause of cancer. From the front page of last week's Sunday Times:

unkel wrote:

"Diesel is the No 1 source of toxic air pollutants. Diesel particulates are carcinogenic and highly damaging to human organs"

This is a very important point albeit for a different thread. I get the impression alot of people are unaware and/or don't give a damn about the highly toxic nature of particulates in diesel fumes. I wish more people would wake up to the fact that diesel engines are seriously damaging to your health. Not good when living in a city such as Dublin and nearly every car that passes you by is spewing this filth. All people only seem to care about is saving the money it seems

Special Circumstances

Den14 wrote: »

This is a very important point albeit for a different thread. I get the impression alot of people are unaware and/or don't give a damn about the highly toxic nature of particulates in diesel fumes. I wish more people would wake up to the fact that diesel engines are seriously damaging to your health. Not good when living in a city such as Dublin and nearly every car that passes you by is spewing this filth. All people only seem to care about is saving the money it seems

The Green party said they were good for the environment. I find this far funnier than the Healy Raes observations on global warming!

micks_address

Manufacturers aren't helping... Parents bought new car in May... Ended up with 1.6 diesel meriva... There just wasn't a competitive petrol for the same money.. I wanted them to look at at petrol Honda hrv but bloody Honda wouldn't have a petrol available for rest of year... The two that were in the country were high spec ones that put them way over the price of the diesel equivalent..

bazz26

I think people as consumers need to do a bit of educating themselves too. It's like anything you buy, research it before hand and make sure it's fits your requirements. It's amazing the amount of people that will spend more time mulling over what mobile phone or tablet is for them than a substantially more expensive car. And I'm not talking about having to be petrolhead either.

Atlantic Dawn

twin_beacon wrote: »

most people didn't know that about diesel engines in fairness. Can't really go wrong with a corolla, very reliable car.

Diesel will be around for a very long time to come in some shape or form, until there is a replacement fuel for large vehicles like lorries and tractors. We are still a good few years away from the large family tdi being a obsolete.

Yes it's shocking that the dealers didn't inform them, if your going to spend €20k plus on a new car you would expect the salesperson to inform you of the plus and negatives of a diesel and let the customer then decide if driving 3 miles a day to the local church warrants a 2 litre diesel with guranteed DPF headaches on the horizon to save €2 a week in motor tax.

Arcade_Tryer

Den14 wrote: »

All people only seem to care about is saving the money it seems

You sound like you're surprised? Of course people will save money if the option is legally available.

Special Circumstances wrote: »

The Green party said they were good for the environment. I find this far funnier than the Healy Raes observations on global warming!

Based on the scientific evidence available at the time. Kind of a key point. And makes your comparison to the Healy Raes ridiculous.

ABC101

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Den14 wrote: »

This is a very important point albeit for a different thread. I get the impression alot of people are unaware and/or don't give a damn about the highly toxic nature of particulates in diesel fumes. I wish more people would wake up to the fact that diesel engines are seriously damaging to your health. Not good when living in a city such as Dublin and nearly every car that passes you by is spewing this filth. All people only seem to care about is saving the money it seems

The Green party said they were good for the environment. I find this far funnier than the Healy Raes observations on global warming!

Whats good for the environment is not necessarily good for humanity. Taking things to the extreme end of the spectrum the environment would thrive if all of humanity was wiped out.

The Green party are never going to admit that a mistake was made with diesel engines. They will just stick with 4 wheels bad, two wheels good mantra. Its a pity really as the Greens did have some good points to be made / defended, but they came across as dogmatic about it, instead of bringing the electorate with them, they kind of bullied them into submission etc.

ba_barabus

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

You sound like you're surprised? Of course people will save money if the option is legally available.


Based on the scientific evidence available at the time. Kind of a key point. And makes your comparison to the Healy Raes ridiculous.

Actually it was well known and has been well know for a long time that diesel emissions are worse than petrol

Special Circumstances

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Based on the scientific evidence available at the time. Kind of a key point. And makes your comparison to the Healy Raes ridiculous.

Based on pseudo science, mumbo jumbo and misplaced faith.... The comparison stands in my opinion.

Offaly Exile

I'm doing about 10/11,000 miles annually mostly rural so I am coming around to thinking I need a petrol and not a diesel when I finally get around to changing.

The Toyota Auris diesel has a good reputation but what about the petrol model, take this as an example http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Toyota-Auris-SPORT-VALVEMATIC-166748720

Would this be a reliable type of car ?

colm_mcm

Yeah, that engine is around In the Avensis since 09 and there aren't any issues I've heard of.

Sam Kade

DublinDilbert wrote: »

It's more like diesel cars are dying out. Renault said if emissions targets change (which they will) diesels will be uneconomic to produce.

Hybrid or plug in hybrid the way to go, if all electric doesn't suit.

Hybrids are a joke, you've an extra big engine than the car needs to power a battery. Unless you are doing mostly urban driving you'd be better off with a petrol or diesel car.

Offaly Exile

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yeah, that engine is around In the Avensis since 09 and there aren't any issues I've heard of.

Thanks Colm.

One last question, it seems to have a 1.6l engine. Would it be thirsty ?

colm_mcm

I wouldn't say so. The 1.6 Avensis Valvematic in 09 was noticibly more economical than the 03-09 VVT-i was. The 6th gear probably helped, but it's a more advanced engine. Decent power too (130bhp IIRC)

1.6 isn't a big engine anyway. My 1.8 civic is averaging 43mpg and another poster here says he is getting 48mpg on average, so it's more about matching the engine size to the car.

Offaly Exile

colm_mcm wrote: »

I wouldn't say so. The 1.6 Avensis Valvematic in 09 was noticibly more economical than the 03-09 VVT-i was. The 6th gear probably helped, but it's a more advanced engine. Decent power too (130bhp IIRC)

1.6 isn't a big engine anyway. My 1.8 civic is averaging 43mpg and another poster here says he is getting 48mpg on average, so it's more about matching the engine size to the car.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. The co2 emissions is stated as 140g which just puts it in the €280 pa road tax bracket which I also like.

unkel

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Based on the scientific evidence available at the time.

Nonsense. We've known for many decades that diesel particulates cause cancer

The Green Party had tunnel vision about global warming. That to save the world meant reduce global warming and the only way to reduce global warming is to decrease our production of CO2. So punish all old cars because they are CO2 monsters and any new petrols too and hail to the new king, the modern low CO2 diesel car.

runnerholic

Have any of you that have diesel cars and do short/medium miles experienced problems? ,[/QUOTE]



I have an avensis 2 litre diesel 2011. I do tiny milage and haven't had any problems so far.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

There is always an over reaction to diesel and short mileage on here. Some posters seem to think if you don anything less than a cross country commute everyday then you are guaranteed a 2 k plus repair bill. This is of course total nonsense. If you know how to look after a diesel and are giving it a motorway run every few weeks it should be fine. The fuel savings for me since switching to diesel have been pretty substantial, I do about 15 k miles a year and find the diesel fine.

CiniO

I think when car taxation dependent on CO2 emissions which probably started in UK and was followed by few other countries, was introduced a while ago, when no one thought that it's going to push technology towards low CO2 diesel cars.
By 2008 it was probably known already, but Ireland blindly followd UK's idea as usual.

ABC101

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

There is always an over reaction to diesel and short mileage on here. Some posters seem to think if you don anything less than a cross country commute everyday then you are guaranteed a 2 k plus repair bill. This is of course total nonsense. If you know how to look after a diesel and are giving it a motorway run every few weeks it should be fine. The fuel savings for me since switching to diesel have been pretty substantial, I do about 15 k miles a year and find the diesel fine.

Unfortunately that is not the experience of pkvader the OP who started this thread.

Both their Peugeot 3008's are giving major trouble, blocked dpf's being mentioned as just one of the many problems he is experiencing.

In addition car exhaust systems have become quiet complex and require time to fully come up to temperature before they start working at their design point.

Using a Diesel engine for short commutes means that the exhaust system does not fully get to the correct temp, and so does not operate correctly.

That means extra pollution for everybody.