Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Help me understand the 24/7 Heart Attack care report

16781012

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,211 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    dzilla wrote: »
    I am so disappointed in Mary Butler. I voted for her expecting good representation. The way things are she could be challenging John Deasy for Hide and Seek champion if hes not careful.

    What does she do ? What has she done ?
    What a waste of a vote. .. .
    TD = Totally Dissapeared :mad:

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    The Herity report is being ignored in part , it recommended no interventional heart attack care should be carried out in Waterford, but it continues 9-5 Monday to Friday. This is indefensible.


    The plan to build a 2 million helipad instead of a 2 million cath lab also beggars belief .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Chiparus wrote: »
    The Herity report is being ignored in part , it recommended no interventional heart attack care should be carried out in Waterford, but it continues 9-5 Monday to Friday. This is indefensible.


    The plan to build a 2 million helipad instead of a 2 million cath lab also beggars belief .

    I did not think the government could stoop any lower with this but they have. I mean for the Taoiseach to stand up in the Dail the other day and say that they should wait until there is an autopsy carried out as the cause of death may not have been because he did not get cardiac care in time is just appalling. I mean the attitude, being that consultants have been saying for years that this kind of thing will happen and the government saying that they must follow medical advice. I’m actually lost for words.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,775 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    BBM77 wrote: »
    I did not think the government could stoop any lower with this but they have. I mean for the Taoiseach to stand up in the Dail the other day and say that they should wait until there is an autopsy carried out as the cause of death may not have been because he did not get cardiac care in time is just appalling. I mean the attitude, being that consultants have been saying for years that this kind of thing will happen and the government saying that they must follow medical advice. I’m actually lost for words.

    im not surprised at this at all, this is as a result of failed policies such as austerity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Sarz91


    Aren't there plans for a new mortuary in Waterford university hospital? I read somewhere it's costing up to €3 million.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Sarz91 wrote: »
    Aren't there plans for a new mortuary in Waterford university hospital? I read somewhere it's costing up to €3 million.

    Sure, the new building being built there now must be costing the government €20 or €30 million. Yet they won’t spend €2 million on a cath lab. :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    im not surprised at this at all, this is as a result of failed policies such as austerity.

    This is politics plain and simple it’s nothing to do with austerity. See last post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    BBM77 wrote: »
    This is politics plain and simple it’s nothing to do with austerity. See last post.

    100%. It is very easy to produce a report to give you the result you want if you restrict the parameters. I would have a modicum of faith in Herity if he was asked: How many Cath Labs should there be in the entire country and where should they be located to give optimum coverage. Somehow I doubt that we would end up with 20 (that's TWENTY) in Dublin. Whats that, one for every 50-75,000 people? Then they tell us we need a catchment population of 500,000??

    They really do think we are stupid down here. They are probably right, we should be burning down the Dáil.


    This link is a start but unfortunately doesn't do what it says on the tin. I would love to know how many Cath labs there are in total and where they are all located:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/where-the-cath-labs-are-located-and-what-they-do-35849692.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭dzilla


    What can we do as the general public down here to pressurize the govt? I don't agree with marching on Ballybricken of a Saturday I don't think it solves anything, doubt they even notice it in the Dail


  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Taxburden carrier


    Not a peep out of Coffey or Deasy to condemn the government for not providing the Cath Lab or getting nearer to 24/7 cardiac care...absolute self serving wasters.

    Well according to today's Examiner, Deasy is really angry and 'out for blood'
    ....because he was overlooked for promotion !
    Good to see that he has got his finger on the Waterford pulse :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭dzilla


    Well according to today's Examiner, Deasy is really angry and 'out for blood'
    ....because he was overlooked for promotion !
    Good to see that he has got his finger on the Waterford pulse :rolleyes:

    He isn't even based in Waterford. That sums it up for me. Wow I never thought I'd be looking for Paudie Coffeys return


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Well according to today's Examiner, Deasy is really angry and 'out for blood'
    ....because he was overlooked for promotion !
    Good to see that he has got his finger on the Waterford pulse :rolleyes:

    The examiner also says he'll be rewarded in other ways, if that isn't good funding for north quays SDZ with his name attached, it will be John Who? in the seanad.I suppose all this in papers is big pinch of salt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    Varadkar values trust ,
    Would you trust John Deasy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,775 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭danjo-xx


    If only we could get the numbers up to protest outside Leinster house we might have some chance.

    It beggars belief the way that 'doctors' who got the health portfolio all made a
    balls of it, what are we on now, No.5 ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Varadkar values trust ,
    Would you trust John Deasy?

    Absolutely. I have said similar a number of times here. After the way he behaved when a spokesperson in the opposition Kenny, Varadkar, nobody is going to promote him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    danjo-xx wrote: »
    If only we could get the numbers up to protest outside Leinster house we might have some chance.

    It beggars belief the way that 'doctors' who got the health portfolio all made a
    balls of it, what are we on now, No.5 ?

    Name one health minister who has not made a "balls of it"


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Good article from matt shanahan about cardiac care in today's times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭dzilla


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Good article from matt shanahan about cardiac care in today's times.

    That is a good read, here is the link for anyone interested - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-won-t-the-hse-invest-2-4m-to-save-six-extra-lives-every-year-1.3130062

    I often wonder how cost effective is it really for the infrastructure out of hours to get the patients to CUH. Like I think the flow if you have a cardiac arrest is -

    - local first responders arrive (dunmore, tramore (order of malta)etc have this I believe all voluntary i presume)
    - ambulance arrives (money)
    - decision made on Helicopter transfer (money)
    - transfer to rugby ground (money) then transfer from location in Cork to CUH (more money) due to absence of helipads
    - without the intervention of the helicopter then you have a situation where a ambulance in Youghal and Dungarvan have to be stood down for redundancy purposes in case the ambulance from Waterford isto breakdown mid journey. (more money)

    Obviously that is looking at the capital and money matters, there is still the fact you are taking first reponders / ambulance crew and SARS /air ambulance infrastructure away from other issues like traffic accidents and coastal alerts.
    I am no way savvy with regards the health service, and I wouldn't even know how to do a cost analysis for the above but it just seems very wasteful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭deisemum


    In 35 years of doing occupational first aid the one thing that's always hammered home is the importance of the golden/critical hour when it comes to cardiac incidents and having seen the videos of stents being inserted etc, and how it prevents further damage to the heart it's disgusting and disgraceful that patients are sent to Cork.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    dzilla wrote: »
    That is a good read, here is the link for anyone interested - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-won-t-the-hse-invest-2-4m-to-save-six-extra-lives-every-year-1.3130062

    I often wonder how cost effective is it really for the infrastructure out of hours to get the patients to CUH. Like I think the flow if you have a cardiac arrest is -

    - local first responders arrive (dunmore, tramore (order of malta)etc have this I believe all voluntary i presume)
    - ambulance arrives (money)
    - decision made on Helicopter transfer (money)
    - transfer to rugby ground (money) then transfer from location in Cork to CUH (more money) due to absence of helipads
    - without the intervention of the helicopter then you have a situation where a ambulance in Youghal and Dungarvan have to be stood down for redundancy purposes in case the ambulance from Waterford isto breakdown mid journey. (more money)

    Obviously that is looking at the capital and money matters, there is still the fact you are taking first reponders / ambulance crew and SARS /air ambulance infrastructure away from other issues like traffic accidents and coastal alerts.
    I am no way savvy with regards the health service, and I wouldn't even know how to do a cost analysis for the above but it just seems very wasteful.

    You don’t need to be an expert common sense will tell you that what is happening is nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    deisemum wrote: »
    In 35 years of doing occupational first aid the one thing that's always hammered home is the importance of the golden/critical hour when it comes to cardiac incidents and having seen the videos of stents being inserted etc, and how it prevents further damage to the heart it's disgusting and disgraceful that patients are sent to Cork.

    Too late, politics involved now, by that politics preventing resolution,HSE seem to see Uhw as some sort second class hospital, govt probably don't want to be seen giving in to halligan, don't want to lose face or admit they are were wrong, don't want to admit the report from herity is a bad joke,etc.I think this national review is a possible get out, I'd hope UHW and probably others will get 24hr cardiac care.in the mean time we might have another tragedy or 2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭mountcisco




  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Squidvicious


    mountcisco wrote: »

    That's quite disappointing. Surely patients in say, Kilkenny city, would reach UHW faster than St. James'? Now, perhaps patients there could get to St. James' in 90 minutes. As I understand it, the "90 minute" limit only states that if you're not treated in 90 minutes, treatment after that will be of little benefit. Technically, all patients in Kilkenny city may have 24/7 cardiac care. However, they would clearly benefit from cardiac care in UHW.

    The problem, of course, is the abolition of the SEHB. St. Lukes clearly needs to be seen to toe a certain line to get whatever crumbs are going from St. James' Hospital. So they may be reluctant to say anything which might lead to a drop in cardiac patients from Kilkenny going to St. James'. No doubt a part of the problem also is that CUH also wants to pull in patients from the South-East to boost it's funding. Having been divided, the South-East is now being squeezed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    If somebody had to go from St. Luke's to St. James's right now it would take 88 minutes.

    If they were to go to UHW it would take 49 minutes.

    That's a massive 40 minutes in the difference and the 88 minutes means the patient would effectively be dead by the time they get to St. James's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭mountcisco


    That's quite disappointing. Surely patients in say, Kilkenny city, would reach UHW faster than St. James'? Now, perhaps patients there could get to St. James' in 90 minutes. As I understand it, the "90 minute" limit only states that if you're not treated in 90 minutes, treatment after that will be of little benefit. Technically, all patients in Kilkenny city may have 24/7 cardiac care. However, they would clearly benefit from cardiac care in UHW.

    The problem, of course, is the abolition of the SEHB. St. Lukes clearly needs to be seen to toe a certain line to get whatever crumbs are going from St. James' Hospital. So they may be reluctant to say anything which might lead to a drop in cardiac patients from Kilkenny going to St. James'. No doubt a part of the problem also is that CUH also wants to pull in patients from the South-East to boost it's funding. Having been divided, the South-East is now being squeezed.

    Agree. I don't think it's ok to send a cardiac patient on a 90-minute trip when St. Lukes to Waterford can be done in half that time. Whatever about the politics the quicker treatment is received the better, so he should be shouting for an upgrade at UHW.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    mountcisco wrote: »
    Agree. I don't think it's ok to send a cardiac patient on a 90-minute trip when St. Lukes to Waterford can be done in half that time. Whatever about the politics the quicker treatment is received the better, so he should be shouting for an upgrade at UHW.

    There is other stuff/politics/some sort of influencing for some reason going on there i reckon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Fair play to all at vigil outside UHW tonight, was on the news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    Has anyone brought this up on the KK board? Especially the comments of the doctor in St. Luke's. Kilkenny City is Mid-North and is still 75 minutes from St. James's (on a perfect day) whereas UHW is 45 minutes away and with the ring road and bypass, you'd be more or less guaranteed that.

    To say they have 24/7 cardiac care is disingenuous to me and doesn't pain an accurate picture at all for the people of Kilkenny. Carlow is 50/50.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    That's quite disappointing. Surely patients in say, Kilkenny city, would reach UHW faster than St. James'? Now, perhaps patients there could get to St. James' in 90 minutes. As I understand it, the "90 minute" limit only states that if you're not treated in 90 minutes, treatment after that will be of little benefit. Technically, all patients in Kilkenny city may have 24/7 cardiac care. However, they would clearly benefit from cardiac care in UHW.

    The problem, of course, is the abolition of the SEHB. St. Lukes clearly needs to be seen to toe a certain line to get whatever crumbs are going from St. James' Hospital. So they may be reluctant to say anything which might lead to a drop in cardiac patients from Kilkenny going to St. James'. No doubt a part of the problem also is that CUH also wants to pull in patients from the South-East to boost it's funding. Having been divided, the South-East is now being squeezed.

    You won't get a patient diagnosed and on an ambulance in less than 20 minutes, another 20 mins to unload and get to the cath lab in Dublin, 90 min transfer by ambulance= 130 minutes

    All those who opposed the hospital groups have been proven correct.


Advertisement