Repair or replace bangernomics, (and risks of old/cheap diesels?)

acronym Chilli

I'm a bangernomics car-owner at moment, but need to review situation/options, hoping from some insight from folk here...

Currently driving about 700-1000km a week, mostly motorways. I'm doing that in a Saab 93 (2002) 2l petrol turbo (LPT). I've done 26000 km since getting the car, and I like it: performance good (or good enough for me), and comfortable.

Economics of ownership so far:

• Bought car (€900)
• Bought decent tyres (~€350), still going fine
• Spent €2654 on fuel (averaging 8.86 l/100km)
• Tax €710 (up to January 2017, NCT same date), insurance about the same.
• Done a couple of services.
• Replaced a fuel pump

My logic up to now was that I'm paying more on fuel than I would on a diesel or on a newer car. But I wouldn't save more than half my fuel cost. I've low depreciation (just because there's not much value left to depreciate). Repair costs ok enough, and especially when compared to a cheaper diesel car. Couple of small bits of maintenance to take care of that I was prepared to plug on with, but that's coming to a head now...

What forces me into a bit of a choice is that I was talking to mechanic yesterday and he is confident that I've the famous 9-3 bulkhead separation/crack issue. Talking to him and another mechanic, they've both seen 1 example each of the steering rack detaching, which could be a fatal mechanical failure out on the road.

I've now got the following repair list ahead of me:

1. Repair bulkhead (~€700 +VAT)
2. Front control arms (€350 +VAT) (marginal, may/may not pass NCT)
3. Ignition unit (€300) (CEL is on, it will fail sooner or later, could damage Cat?)
4. Turbo boost valve (€100) (CEL on, it's nice to fix, but no safety impact)
5. Sump drop and clean (possibly, got quote of €250)

Item #1 is forcing my hand, because of safety considerations (not just for me, but I've passengers, and other road-users/pedestrians, etc.,). If I do Item #1, I'll end up doing #5 to make sure engine doesn't go pop 1 week later. Based on that I'd also need to be prepared to follow through on items 2 and 3.
Without #1, I'd have done NCT early in October, maybe not have needed #2, spent a few quid to DIY #3 not to get stranded, and driven on for rest of year, maybe look at sump-drop at next service, or maybe not. I'm still planning to do early NCT in October before making final call on this stuff, and in mean-time I'll get a second opinion and firm up quotes.

Sale value of this car, even with a new NCT, is low; even more-so with an engine light on (and clearing that (properly!) would cost about €400). But even forgetting about that, I have a choice: keep car and do repairs, or change it. The economic argument for the new car can be based on cost to buy, avoided cost of repairs to existing car, any fuel-savings out of change (e.g. to a diesel), and the cost of any work needed for new car (e.g. decent set of tyres at least).

I'm looking for general suggestions/advice, but one specific question: if I bought a cheap (sub 2k) diesel, I could land into a DMF problem a couple of months later. Would the potential €1500 of repairs above go far on fixing such a problem or other typical diesel woes?

At that mileage would a petrol + LPG kit be an even better option? (or repair this car and go all-in with an LPG kit?).

I'm torn between wondering if this is the moment to cut losses, or whether to remember that "changing a car to save money" rarely works and plough on.

(Sorry it's such a long post)

jharr100

I think the 9-3 owes you nothing, but from here on in its just going to be a money pit.

The bulkhead repair almost makes it an economic write off in my opinion.

I'd be looking at something low mileage and petrol with a view to a possible lpg conversion if I was in your shoes.

I really think most diesels in the bangernomics price bracket are a big gamble.

You have a bit of time to look anyway.

stimpson

jharr100 wrote: »

I'd be looking at something low mileage and petrol with a view to a possible lpg conversion if I was in your shoes.

This is a great idea.


In other news I'm thinking of selling my LPG converted S60...

jharr100

stimpson wrote: »

This is a great idea.


In other news I'm thinking of selling my LPG converted S60...

Put a link up?

aerofoiled

With bangernomics, my view is that if the cost of any repairs exceed the price you paid or the resale value, it's time to move on.

I've had a few similar vintage 9-3s and they're hard to shift at the best of times. As mentioned above, yours owes you very little at this stage but you could sell it or scrap it to get the value of the remaining road tax.

Plenty of value in out there in 1.8-2.0 petrols.

Soarer

Older diesels shouldn't have issues with dpfs. They're a lot hardier than their modern counterparts.

jharr100

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-318i-long-nct-full-service-top-condition/12980319

A really cheap BMW like this would be a decent stop gap....


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2007-saab-95-vector-2-0-t-bio-power/13213218

This 9-5 would probably be got for the price of your total repair bill on your 9-3

jharr100

Soarer wrote: »

Older diesels shouldn't have issues with dpfs. They're a lot hardier than their modern counterparts.

Agreed , but dmf, injector and turbo issues can also be costly.
Its harder to find low mileage diesels too.

stimpson

jharr100 wrote: »

Put a link up?

I haven't listed it yet.

92,000 miles. 2.0T 5 cylinder (180bhp) Leather interior. Conversion done by LPGain in Tallaght. Dunlop BluResponse tyres with less than 10K miles. NCT until Feb. Taxed until end of Nov.

I bought and converted it when I was doing 70 miles a day. Not doing the mileage any more to justify €700 tax. . Need to get something cheap to tax for the school run.

Phil.x

Spend a bit and get a Honda insight, good on petrol, low tax, no nasty diesel faults lurking and cheaper than a Toyota.

ABC101

Assuming you do 700-1000 km a week because of your job ....you require a safe and reliable car. Form your OP that SAAB sounds past its best and is going to let you down.

Cars on the old tax system are getting cheaper, you can pick up a very nice 08 / 07 100k mileage car with a new clutch / relatively new clutch fairly cheaply now <5k.

Alternatively you could look at something like a Dacia duster diesel, save money on fuel economy and have relatively cheap / trouble free driving for the next three / years. Even if you looked at a second hand duster for 14K, I think they are great value.

However IMO your annual mileage is very high, so a comfortable driving seat is very important, so not sure if a duster would be right for you (I.e more comfortable than the SAAB).

Long motorway commutes are best suited to diesels, but if you were to stay with petrol then I would recommend a tidy Subaru Legacy saloon. The pre 08 petrol are going very cheap and they are a good car.

I would second the comments of the poster above, putting money into an older car reaches a point where it rapidly becomes uneconomical. Because as soon as you fix one thing there will be another problem springing up, perhaps more so given the mileage you are doing.

For comparison purposes I always calculate the total cost of ownership of my vehicle, tax, fuel costs, insurance, servicing and depreciation. Depreciation is the biggest cost with newer cars.

My car was giving a total cost / year of 4000 euro. A new Duster would come in at around 4400 euro / year for my circumstances.

So the extra cost is 400 euro, and for that I get to drive around in a much more modern vehicle. Only one problem....I don't have the cash to put up front to get a Duster / comparatively more modern vehicle.

ABC101

Might be worth mentioning, some of the older diesels had a open trap filter instead of a closed trap DPF filter. Therefore the was no highly expensive DPF unit to replace.

I think you are looking at 2K for a new DPF filter, and that seems to be the same cost across the majority of brands.

ABC101

From my calculations, taking 700 km / week works out at....

36400 km a year, or 22750 miles.

Your SAAB appears to be delivering 30.47 mpg, giving 746.6 gallons, giving 3359.8 litres at 1.27 c/ ltr = 4266.9 euros.

A diesel giving 50 mpg, 455 gallons, 2047.5 litres, at 1.12 litre = 2293 euro per year.

Effectively a two grand saving on fuel alone.

If your mileage is higher the bigger the saving and if the Diesel engine returns higher mpg then that's more savings again. Perhaps 2500/ year.

In my opinion you should be driving diesel and a more modern car, given the fact that diesels work well on motorways.

acronym Chilli

Thanks all for the inputs/advice!

aerofoiled wrote: »

With bangernomics, my view is that if the cost of any repairs exceed the price you paid or the resale value, it's time to move on.

I'm actually prepared to pay a bit more on repair than resale value, simply because the car as a known (to me) quantity is worth a little more to me than to any third party I'd sell it to. But I know where' you're coming from.

aerofoiled wrote: »

I've had a few similar vintage 9-3s and they're hard to shift at the best of times. As mentioned above, yours owes you very little at this stage but you could sell it or scrap it to get the value of the remaining road tax.

It's mostly a grand car, but not in any way special such that it might justify "preserving" it (it's not an Aero / Viggen or anything exotic, has a decent leather interior but not highest spec levels, and there is a fair share of small dings (and one not so small ding) around the bodywork... which don't bother me in the least but would deter many buyers.

stimpson wrote: »

I haven't listed it yet.

92,000 miles. 2.0T 5 cylinder (180bhp) Leather interior. Conversion done by LPGain in Tallaght. Dunlop BluResponse tyres with less than 10K miles. NCT until Feb. Taxed until end of Nov.

What kind of fuel economy do you get on that? (not sure how to reckon it, is there an "equivalent" petrol mpg or l/100km figure?), and how much was the conversion?
Could be of interest...

jharr100 wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-318i-long-nct-full-service-top-condition/12980319

A really cheap BMW like this would be a decent stop gap....


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2007-saab-95-vector-2-0-t-bio-power/13213218

This 9-5 would probably be got for the price of your total repair bill on your 9-3

I'd have assumed that BMWs would be dear for what they are, just because of the badge-appeal. That one does look very nice, especially if tyres are in good nick as they're described. The 95 is food for thought. There was another (older) one in the bangernomics thread in the last couple of days at €650 or so. (although in Longford, which doesn't suit with geog), It's asking what's a small fraction of my total repair bill.

jharr100 wrote: »

I think the 9-3 owes you nothing, but from here on in its just going to be a money pit.

The bulkhead repair almost makes it an economic write off in my opinion.

I'd be looking at something low mileage and petrol with a view to a possible lpg conversion if I was in your shoes.

I really think most diesels in the bangernomics price bracket are a big gamble.

You have a bit of time to look anyway.

Yes, at least I've a bit of space. Anything I'd sink an LPG conversion into would need to be relatively nice and then plan to stick with it for long haul. When you suggest "low mileage petrol", do you mean dearer than bangernomics prices, or just holding out a little for a little-loved higher tax low mileage/well serviced petrol vehicle?

acronym Chilli

ABC101 wrote: »

Assuming you do 700-1000 km a week because of your job ....you require a safe and reliable car. Form your OP that SAAB sounds past its best and is going to let you down.

It's actually mostly a commute plus some "on the job" miles. I'll be looking to switch that in a while, but can probably expect to spend a year more on this regimen. The SAAB feels fine to drive, and since start of year has let me down precisely once (fuel pump), it's comfortable, accelerates well, stops well, etc., but is perhaps now becoming a bit of a time bomb...

However IMO your annual mileage is very high, so a comfortable driving seat is very important, so not sure if a duster would be right for you (I.e more comfortable than the SAAB).

Don't know what the Duster is like, but the SAAB is comfortable and easy to drive (both cruising on motorway, and parking/maneuvering around town).

I'll take a look at Subaru's as you suggested...

stimpson

acronym Chilli wrote: »

What kind of fuel economy do you get on that? (not sure how to reckon it, is there an "equivalent" petrol mpg or l/100km figure?), and how much was the conversion?
Could be of interest...

It was €1100 to convert. It paid for itself in 10000 miles.

22mpg average at 61c/l so about 45mpg petrol equivalent. It was closer to 25/50 mpg when I was doing the mileage. I've logged it all in an app:



PM me your number if interested. I'd be happy to chat to you about it at some stage tomorrow.

ABC101

acronym Chilli wrote: »

It's actually mostly a commute plus some "on the job" miles. I'll be looking to switch that in a while, but can probably expect to spend a year more on this regimen. The SAAB feels fine to drive, and since start of year has let me down precisely once (fuel pump), it's comfortable, accelerates well, stops well, etc., but is perhaps now becoming a bit of a time bomb...

Don't know what the Duster is like, but the SAAB is comfortable and easy to drive (both cruising on motorway, and parking/maneuvering around town).

I'll take a look at Subaru's as you suggested...

Yeah I would imagine the SAAB is a great car on the road, comfortable / stable etc.

Given the fact that you mentioned you might be changing the regimen in the next 12 months you could be right in keeping the SAAB, but again if it requires the work as you say?

Subarus are great petrol engines, but the early diesels got a bit of a poor reputation for breaking crankshafts. I believe that is sorted from 2011 onwards.

In addition at around 100,000 miles you are looking at new injectors and the engine has to be removed for that job, so not cheap.

But still...on the plus side Subarus are very reliable for electrics, so what you can spend on one hand you can save on another.

Sometimes you can be lucky, for example there is a 2011 legacy with 100k miles and new clutch + flywheel fitted for 13K on carzone atm. If the injectors have already been done then I would consider a car like that, not too expensive, clutch already done etc.

But I would recommend a trustworthy garage to buy from, and I only know garage I trust, so I'm not much help there!

CharlieCroker

First rule of Bangernomics: drive it until it goes pop and then buy another one.

Price to fix the Saab completely is about €1800.

Take the €1800, add the €300-400 you'd get for the Saab if you put it on donedeal listing the faults and choose one of the dozens of cars that get posted in the Bangernomics thread.

Its still a lot cheaper than spending €300-400 a month on a new car.

acronym Chilli

Thoughts & imaginings, any comments?:
For around €1k https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-sonata-gls-new-model-nct-5-17/13307955

Asking €1599, eye-watering tax but... https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/audi-a8-a8-3-7-v8-quattro-nct/13152257

Two jags around €2k (each!)
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/jaguar-s-type-2-5-v6-luxury/13084918
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/jaguar-s-type-3-0-luxury-with-only-90-000-mil/12079930

How risky would this be?:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-rover-75-2-0-cdti-automatic-new-nct/12175965
(I had that in my saved ads a while, but I am however now much more in the space of petrol+lpg being the ideal outcome, as a good mix of economy, performance/refinment, hedging reliability/repair bets, and bucking (at least slightly) the market trends)

bazz26

The problem with buying high end cars for bangernomics money is that any problems potentially still cost high end money to fix or replace. It's a lottery with them, you could get 2 or 3 years trouble free driving from them where your only outlet is tax, fuel and servicing, on the other hand if something big goes wrong 2 months down the road and it's just not economical to repair then you have just blown €1500 or so on buying a lemon.

jharr100

bazz26 wrote: »

The problem with buying high end cars for bangernomics money is that any problems potentially still cost high end money to fix or replace. It's a lottery with them, you could get 2 or 3 years trouble free driving from them where your only outlet is tax, fuel and servicing, on the other hand if something big goes wrong 2 months down the road and it's just not economical to repair then you have just blown €1500 or so on buying a lemon.

Couldnt agree more,
Earlier this year a colleague of mines uncle passed away , leaving behind a 2005 Avensis , 1 owner, less than 60k, absolutely mint.

I picked it up for 1700

Its a car I would have never considered, my last cars were a couple of Saab 9-5s and a 3 series.

But I must say I was pleasantly surprised by the build quality , good mpg (37-40), handles reasonably well, and I must say its cost me nothing apart from an oil and filter so far. I know they have a boring image and are a taxi drivers favourite, plus I risk being ridiculed, but I must say I do feel confidence in the fact it will be reliable. Parts are cheap and plentiful should anything go wrong.

At this end of the market in my opinion this counts for so much..

The example below is similar to mine .. And it would be in line for 24 months nct if it was done soon.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-avensis-2007/13035376

ABC101

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Thoughts & imaginings, any comments?:
For around 1k https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-sonata-gls-new-model-nct-5-17/13307955

Asking 1599, eye-watering tax but... https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/audi-a8-a8-3-7-v8-quattro-nct/13152257

Two jags around 2k (each!)
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/jaguar-s-type-2-5-v6-luxury/13084918
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/jaguar-s-type-3-0-luxury-with-only-90-000-mil/12079930

How risky would this be?:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-rover-75-2-0-cdti-automatic-new-nct/12175965
(I had that in my saved ads a while, but I am however now much more in the space of petrol+lpg being the ideal outcome, as a good mix of economy, performance/refinment, hedging reliability/repair bets, and bucking (at least slightly) the market trends)

I'm afraid I could not comment on those cars.

However if you are confined to staying in the sub bargain basement territory then you may be better off putting more money into the money pit you currently own, rather than buying somebody else's money pit and pouring your money into that.

All cars are money pits, they just vary on how much money you have to pour into the pit annually. I was reading the 1.8lt TDCI Ford thread which started in 2013 and some people have been badly hurt when the wet belt fails and a new engine is required.

Even if you are driving a relatively modern, low tax, high fuel economy safe vehicle you can still get badly stung with hefty repair bills.

acronym Chilli

bazz26 wrote: »

The problem with buying high end cars for bangernomics money is that any problems potentially still cost high end money to fix or replace. It's a lottery with them, you could get 2 or 3 years trouble free driving from them where your only outlet is tax, fuel and servicing, on the other hand if something big goes wrong 2 months down the road and it's just not economical to repair then you have just blown €1500 or so on buying a lemon.

Doubly so if the extra expense of installing an LPG kit has been incurred.

In fairness, Saab parts aren't too dear these days, apart from the bulkhead
any faults would be manageable, and I've gotten a decent innings already (at least in km, whatever about years). However, it would be a different story I guess on something like this beast from today's bangernomics:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-e-320-elegance-/13327656
Nice and all as it would be for cruising up and down the motorway

@jharr, thanks for the avensis pointer

selectamatic

Tbh op a diesel fits the bill for your scenario.
Yes they are risky at bangernomics level but so too are the sorta cars you appear to be into: mid noughties mercs, saabs, big audi's etc can all be pretty unreliable too be they petrol or diesel and expensive parts can fail.
If I was in your position it'd be a clean d4d avensis (hard found) or a 130bhp diesel vag car off the mk4 platform; bora, octavia, golf etc.

but going by the cars you've linked thus far these really aren't your cup of tea.

The likes of a well minded 2.4 d5 s60 or s80 would suit ya well or
the rover 75 is also a decent choice.
others to consider:
e46 320d (alot of abused ones about)
e39 525d

If going for a petrol again go cheap, low milage, simple and N/A. (easier said than done)
2.0 ghia mondeo or well spec'd accord or avensis 1.8 or up.

stimpson

Ok so, I opened a can of elbow grease this afternoon and got the Volvo shined up. She's due an oil change and this will be done before the sale (next weekend, weather allowing.)

http://www.adverts.ie/11329774

ABC101

stimpson wrote: »

Ok so, I opened a can of elbow grease this afternoon and got the Volvo shined up. She's due an oil change and this will be done before the sale (next weekend, weather allowing.)

http://www.adverts.ie/11329774

Looks Great.... GLWS!

jharr100

Nice saab 93 diesel 2006 on the Bangers thread ..

Kilough

A bit off topic but has anybody ever bought an aftermarket warranty? I think they might only protect cars less than 10 years old but could be an option to offer some piece of mind on older (06/07/08) and more delicate types.
I've got one in the UK (warrantywise) and have used it to pay for a gearbox repair on my e90 - saved me a good few quid. A major pain in the ar$e getting paid but got it in the end.

acronym Chilli

resurrecting my own old thread... in fairness I'm still driving the same car, and almost 1 year later looking again at changing it.

To update story: I've driven car (2002 Saab 93, 2.0l petrol) ever since original post and have now hit 35k miles (total of 130k miles on it, maybe 19k miles since original post). Haven't spent any money on repairs on it since last post except for oil & filter changes which I've done myself.

Meantime it's acquired a crack in the windscreen, and the clutch is acting up (hard to change gear when cold, I think it's a master or slave cylinder issue... once pressure builds up in system it's fine) and seems to be burning some oil (no smoke ever, but oil level drops). This is now true bangernomics I would say... but lifetime of the car is limited and I need to change as I'm not going to put money into it. Car doesn't have to be bangernomics next time out (but no harm if it can be). Criteria:

• Looking for cheaper interesting car that's comfortable on motorway commute.
• Don't want to spend a lot on purchase price (5k max),
• Don't mind if tax is highish, not averse to large petrol (but would like cost of running not to exceed current 2.0l petrol if possible (calculating in spreadsheet)).
• Want to avoid large repair bills
• Want as much power at least as current car
• More boot space is good (93 is great for that)

Some things I thought of:

• Lexus GS300. Can pick up examples for ~€3k. I went away from this for time being as cost of ownership really becomes bad: fuel economy no better, plus tax goes up a lot. That said, very comfortable, and by all accounts reliable.
• Saab route again: newer 93, or maybe 95. E.g. https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/06-saab-95-2-0l-diesel-vector-sport-180hp-newshape/16199586 Saw another one of these this evening (not estate, v. low mileage, service history; sold an hour after I looked at it; I left it as there was problem accessing reverse, and a slightly odd engine vibration).
• Diesel, e.g. volvo 2.4d or 2.0d like this https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volvo-v50-2-0d-s-5dr/14129452 (maybe hold out for lower mileage, but that type of thing, could save me €1400 p.a. on fuel easily enough)
• Or a diesel like this... kinda between the diesel and GS300 ideas: http://www.cameroncars.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=1287017 (3.0l BMW 530d 2004). Tax would be up, but fuel cost would be down, end up with marginally lower spend as current car.

acronym Chilli

acronym Chilli wrote: »

...............

I'm torn between wondering if this is the moment to cut losses, or whether to remember that "changing a car to save money" rarely works and plough on.

......

Bolded bit doesn't apply to bangernomics.
Bin the Saab.

acronym Chilli

acronym Chilli wrote: »

..................

I've now got the following repair list ahead of me:

1. Repair bulkhead (~€700 +VAT)
2. Front control arms (€350 +VAT) (marginal, may/may not pass NCT)
3. Ignition unit (€300) (CEL is on, it will fail sooner or later, could damage Cat?)
4. Turbo boost valve (€100) (CEL on, it's nice to fix, but no safety impact)
5. Sump drop and clean (possibly, got quote of €250)

Item #1 is forcing my hand, because of safety considerations (not just for me, but I've passengers, and other road-users/pedestrians, etc.,). If I do Item #1,.............

acronym Chilli wrote: »

................Haven't spent any money on repairs on it since last post except for oil & filter changes which I've done myself.................

So much for the safety considerations

acronym Chilli

Augeo wrote: »

So much for the safety considerations

When I read my original post, that thought crossed my mind too. In fairness, the only element with a safety impact could be bulkhead: and on that you get quite mixed reports on it online. Eg it wasn't being repaired by Saab when it emerged as they said it wasn't a safety issue. I asked 3 saab mechanics, 1 saw safety risk, while 2 thought "ok" (and the 1 who didn't like it was also the guy who was telling me I needed a boost bypass valve, when I worked out myself that the CEL was only coming up because a vacuum hose had popped off its connector :mad:).

It's also one of these things that slips down priority list as car was running fine and while that 1 mechanic thought it was there, you can't see anything.

I also did in fact replace the ignition unit, but car passed the NCT last winter with no problem or even advisory/comment on control arms (or bulkhead).

Anyway, there is now a collection of unresolved issues (even down to the fact that while all 4 Michelin tyres on the car are still legal, front 2 are a bit worn and I'd like at least 2 new ones for winter). So, as you say

Augeo wrote: »

Bolded bit doesn't apply to bangernomics.
Bin the Saab.

I've decided the same, it's just what to drive next (getting into gear when cold is slowly but surely getting harder!)

AhHaor

acronym Chilli wrote: »

I've decided the same, it's just what to drive next (getting into gear when cold is slowly but surely getting harder!)

Just picked up an S80. I'd say they're coming into Bangernomics territory. Really nice inside, just very underwhelming wrt power and that's with the 4pot 2l petrol

acronym Chilli

AhHaor wrote: »

Just picked up an S80. I'd say they're coming into Bangernomics territory. Really nice inside, just very underwhelming wrt power and that's with the 4pot 2l petrol

Had looked at another Volvo (V50, 2.0l diesel) at weekend. Didn't have time to test-drive, and was going to go back to do that tomorrow, but see this morning it's sold. Even on that, it was a nice interior, and the estate opened up the space nicely (saw another boardsie's Volvo S40 a while back, also a nice machine (2.4l petrol), sold quickly).

acronym Chilli

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volvo-v50-lpg-gas-estate/15736192

Thoughts on this?:
2005 V50, 1.8l petrol engine, with LPG conversion, 155k km apparently.
NCT until March 2018
Reading some more, it's a chain not a belt (one less thing to check, but fuel economy and noise not great, performance lack lustre... but it's not expensive...): https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=129702

Adding links/ideas:

• Volvo V50 2.0l diesel, SE trim, 2006. Big mileage for the price?: https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=129702
• Volvo V70, 2.4l diesel: Needs NCT (since March, so probably no-no for me), but advert reads so legit!: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volvo-v70-2-4-turbo-diesel/16481433 Good photo illustration of how badly the light Volvo leather ages!
• Toyota Avensis, 2005 2.0l d4d, 175k miles, but looks fairly clean. Leather and higher end spec than a lot of Toyotas. https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-toyota-avensis-2-0-d-4d-leather-top-spec/15916807
• Laguna 3, 2008, 2.0l diesel, automatic, 120k miles, nice interior and trim. Probably too far away for me (thinking) https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-laguna-privilege-2-0dci-auto-leather/16472625
  

acronym Chilli

Was updating last post, one more here:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-volvo-s60-d5-2-4-diesel-auto-nct-03-18/16301414
I'd wonder if it's due a timing belt, but only asking €1200...

acronym Chilli

Went to see a v50, 2.0 diesel. 155000 miles. Plenty of service history, asking 2500.
Nearly bought, then got cold feet (UK import, lot of miles, etc) and left it... Car sold a couple of hours later.

So, still on the hunt...

Matty.C

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Went to see a v50, 2.0 diesel. 155000 miles. Plenty of service history, asking 2500.
Nearly bought, then got cold feet (UK import, lot of miles, etc) and left it... Car sold a couple of hours later.

So, still on the hunt...

The 2.0d volvos are decent cars, nothing is trouble free but these have proven reliable overall. Space is small for an estate but there a good looking car. Avoid the early 1.6d in them give alot of problems with injector seals, turbos, dpf and alternators . the 2.0d could still have issues but not to the extent of the 1.6d..

In terms of modern diesel saabs. The 1.9jtd is a very economical and powerful engine but can be troublesome with similar problems to the 1.6hdi in the volvo. Mainly egr valves dpf and dmf failurs also known for notorious swirl flap failure which can destroy the engine.. So fuel saving can quickly be dimished by repair bills.

Another consideration should be a volvo s60/v70 with the D5 engine best one to go for is the earlier 163bhp one (identified by a black engine cover) as it wasnt fitted with a dpf.. Tax bill will be high but a very strong reliable engine.

The trouble with most diesels euro 4 onward is all the auxiliary emmisions system s dpf egr ect can cause endless expensive bill unless they are deleted by a remap..

If your looking for a 'bangernomic' diesel that will save you on fuel and not cost a bomb in repair bills i would suggest a vw group car fitted with the 1.9tdi 130bhp awx engine. This engine was fitted to various vag cars between 1998-2005 audi a4/a6, Skoda Superb, Vw passat ect... This engine is in my opinion the best diesel engine ever made. Its an old design so its not particularly quiet or refined but does what a diesel was designed for reliabilty and economy... These engines can do 400k miles+ if serviced and TB changed on time... They can suffer dmf failures at high mileage and from suspension arms are pricey enough for them (no car is without issues, it trying to find one that are less troublesome and costly that others) but overall the cheapest form of motoring overall for high mileage. Take into account the cheap price one of thes can be got and allow a few hundred for repairs ect vs depreciation of a newer car and the bit saved in tax and repair bills will mean the pd130 will work out cheaper overall..

acronym Chilli

Matty.C wrote: »

If your looking for a 'bangernomic' diesel that will save you on fuel and not cost a bomb in repair bills i would suggest a vw group car fitted with the 1.9tdi 130bhp awx engine.

OK, so to update and ask a last bit of advice/reassurance/skepticism...

Started hunting in this direction for AWX engines, and have now agreed in principle to buy a 2004 Audi A6. Here's what I'm looking at and the thoughts/reservations before I pull trigger...

It's the 130BHP 1.9TDI AWX engine, in a 2004 Audi A6. Imported from UK in 2008. NCT to mid 2018, 2 months tax on it, and buying for €1000.
Mileage is a little under 160k (miles), which seems genuine enough: motorcheck.ie gives MOT miles up to 2008 (59k), then INMR data starts at 2012 with 125k, up to 130 in 2013, and from then on there are NCT data. Not watertight but reasonable. With present owner since 2013. Interior wear is light, and it has leather seats which is nice. It's the 5 speed gearbox which seems to be the more reliable option (vs 6 spd) and as capable. Starts and runs well. I quite like the A6, so happy with that make/model in any case.

Possible red-flags:

• Looking at tax, it's been taxed continuously back to 31-10-2013, which if it was 12 mths tax would step back at least to 31st Oct 2012. But before that last tax due date was 30th of June 2011, which indicates not taxed from 1st July 2011 to 31st October 2012. All of that time is under the first Irish owner's tenure (went to a dealer on 3-Oct-2012, another dealer 19th Oct, then a private owner 9th November, who held it for 4 months, back to a dealer March 2013, and from there to current private owner in April 2013). Could just have been first owner not taxing it at end and selling it on extinguishing the arrears.
• No real service history. That said, owner seems genuine enough. Tyres are matching and decent quality, disks and brake pads in good order, fluids at right levels, car clean and well presented, etc., No record of timing belt, and while owner things it may have been done shortly after he bought it, he's clear he can't vouch for that. Even if it was, it'd be 4 years ago now, so maybe time anyway.
• Driver side headlamp has been replaced, I didn't think to ask why. Jumped into my head yesterday that drivers door sticks slightly, started wondering if it's had a tip. However, when I looked over car, and panel gaps etc., it all looks very straight.
• Owner said ABS light had come on once while driving on open road. Cleared when car stopped and restarted. Mechanic thought may be a sensor. No lights showing at the moment. (on VAG forums, that can be a sensor, can also be related to tired brake fluid, can also just be need to re-seat the connector for ABS control unit).

So as it stands now, I'm looking at picking this up for €1000, and then bringing it for a service, and more than likely a new timing belt. 2 new tyres in the next month or two before winter comes in.

This is definitely a bangernomics purchase, even factoring in a few hundred for service to be comfortably on the road, so there's likely to be some element of risk. However, does it seem like a reasonable undertaking? All comments welcome/gratefully received!

Matty.C

acronym Chilli wrote: »

OK, so to update and ask a last bit of advice/reassurance/skepticism...

Started hunting in this direction for AWX engines, and have now agreed in principle to buy a 2004 Audi A6. Here's what I'm looking at and the thoughts/reservations before I pull trigger...

It's the 130BHP 1.9TDI AWX engine, in a 2004 Audi A6. Imported from UK in 2008. NCT to mid 2018, 2 months tax on it, and buying for €1000.
Mileage is a little under 160k (miles), which seems genuine enough: motorcheck.ie gives MOT miles up to 2008 (59k), then INMR data starts at 2012 with 125k, up to 130 in 2013, and from then on there are NCT data. Not watertight but reasonable. With present owner since 2013. Interior wear is light, and it has leather seats which is nice. It's the 5 speed gearbox which seems to be the more reliable option (vs 6 spd) and as capable. Starts and runs well. I quite like the A6, so happy with that make/model in any case.

Possible red-flags:

• Looking at tax, it's been taxed continuously back to 31-10-2013, which if it was 12 mths tax would step back at least to 31st Oct 2012. But before that last tax due date was 30th of June 2011, which indicates not taxed from 1st July 2011 to 31st October 2012. All of that time is under the first Irish owner's tenure (went to a dealer on 3-Oct-2012, another dealer 19th Oct, then a private owner 9th November, who held it for 4 months, back to a dealer March 2013, and from there to current private owner in April 2013). Could just have been first owner not taxing it at end and selling it on extinguishing the arrears.
• No real service history. That said, owner seems genuine enough. Tyres are matching and decent quality, disks and brake pads in good order, fluids at right levels, car clean and well presented, etc., No record of timing belt, and while owner things it may have been done shortly after he bought it, he's clear he can't vouch for that. Even if it was, it'd be 4 years ago now, so maybe time anyway.
• Driver side headlamp has been replaced, I didn't think to ask why. Jumped into my head yesterday that drivers door sticks slightly, started wondering if it's had a tip. However, when I looked over car, and panel gaps etc., it all looks very straight.
• Owner said ABS light had come on once while driving on open road. Cleared when car stopped and restarted. Mechanic thought may be a sensor. No lights showing at the moment. (on VAG forums, that can be a sensor, can also be related to tired brake fluid, can also just be need to re-seat the connector for ABS control unit).

So as it stands now, I'm looking at picking this up for €1000, and then bringing it for a service, and more than likely a new timing belt. 2 new tyres in the next month or two before winter comes in.

On the face of it, seems alot of car for the money . from the point of view of drivetrain the 130 with the 5 speed is by far the best bet. Mileage is decent for the age and is capable of alot more once it has been looked after. I wouldnt personally worry about it not being taxed at some stage, is 13 years old and the tax is a little high so the odds someone took the chance on not taxing it for some stage at is life is high.
About the door sticking, its a common fault with the a6 for the locks to stick and require another push to close fully this is something I have experienced first hand with a couple of A6. I would do a little more looking into and ask why the light was replaced they can go cloudy in this model so maybe thats why or it could be that it got a tip is worth doing a bit more investigating into to make sure i hasnt had a shoddy repair if it got a smack. If the timing belt cant be verified get it done for piece of mind. The interval is 60k miles so quite low I would also get the gearbox oil changed at the service and factor in the possibility of a few suspension arms needing changing at the next nct.. Good luck I hope the Audi works out for you.

selectamatic

Not the cheapest of car to do the timing belt on. The front of the car has to be put into the service position as the engine is mounted in a longitude layout. So maybe price the belt job from your mechanic before buying.

The a6 will be a comfy motorway cruiser and should be reliable. Nothing wrong with the six speed boxes either but the 5 is adequate.

The 130bhp tdi in the mk4 platform (golf,bora,octavia,leon&toledo) are the most reliable package overall if picking from the pd tdi range so that'd be the asz tdi but the awx's are good too.

acronym Chilli

selectamatic wrote: »

The 130bhp tdi in the mk4 platform (golf,bora,octavia,leon&toledo) are the most reliable package overall if picking from the pd tdi range so that'd be the asz tdi but the awx's are good too.

Didn't know that (bold), and had actually kept away from those. All that said, cruising comfort is a significant concern in this case. I actually started out considering even a Lexus GS300 petrol (old tax) for that comfort approach. So I'm happy with a pick of A6/Passat/etc., vs the mk4 vehicles.

All that said, nice (but dear) Leon: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/seat-leon-fr-1-9-tdi-150-arl-2005-new-nct-08-18/16664145
(150bhp not 130, but so clean looking for the age)

Not clean, but maybe a good wagon?:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/seat-leon-1-9-tdi-with-nct/16434415
(although no way to know if it's the 130 from ad, probably not, that was another reason I kept away from those... too many different 1.9tdi engines, A6 only had 130 AFAIK)

selectamatic

Comfortwise the a6 would be hard bet. The early ones had the supremely reliable non pd 110bhp tdi engine. The first of the pd's was the 115bhp tdi engine and then from 01 or 02 onwards all were the 130bhp tdi engine.

Awx vs asv are literally the same just mounted differently so some of their ancillaries are slightly different. Both very durable. Skoda superb ex taxi down my way has 500k+miles on the clock.


The mk4 platform cars tended to be more reliable as an overall package really is what i was getting at: Less window reg issues, cheaper suspension components etc. In particular the bora and the octavia are renowned for their longevity. But again they won't be as refined as the a6. A highline bora or L&K octavia would be somewhat up there but they're rare.

The biggest plus for the a6 is there seems to be much more well cared for examples around. Especially when you compare that with the host of rough vw's etc for sale. A4s are nearly all dogged at this stage too yet the a6 is hanging on due to them largely having easier lives.


That 150bhp Leon is very nice it's too pricey though. The arl tdi's can suffer from cam wear too if the wrong oil is used. All pd tdi's can suffer this but the 150bhp was more known for it. They're a great drive though. The other one isnt to appealing.


Throwing the reg into cartell or on the place an add section of carsireland is a good way to tell the what bhp engine the car has.

acronym Chilli

Cheers all, and thanks for the help. Just to let you know I bought the 1.9TDI 2004 Audi A6 this evening. €1000, 156k miles, tax to end Nov and NCT to mid May. Nice clean straight looking car.

Drove it home, and then took it out for a spin on the M50. Takes much longer to hit steady temperature than the petrol engined car did, but overall driving nicely and feels like a nice place to be. Scale/shape of the car sort of gives a more sedate feel to driving, but for what I want that's actually a good thing.

I'll get some service done on it shortly to prep for winter, and once it's proven for a few weeks I'll put a new pair of rear tyres on it at least (they're all legal, front pair are new Nokians, but rear pair are quite well worn). Again, thanks for all the discussions and advice.

One last query: what should I do with the Saab? Breakers or try to sell?:

• 2002 2.0t petrol 93, 132k miles, I've had it for just under 2 years and put about 35k miles on it.
• Good:
  • Tax to end Nov
  • NCT to mid January
  • DI (direct ignition) pack is very new, less than a year, and about 10k miles
  • Very nice and good condition leather seats
  • Very big boot
• Bad:
  • Crack in windscreen (7 or 8 inches long)
  • Probably got bulkhead crack (type fault) but not failing NCT on that
  • One of slave or master cylinder leaking, so very hard to change gear when cold (fine when warm)
  • Air conditioning not working (worked when I got it)
  • Fairly bad dent just above rear passenger side wheel (Was there when I bought it)

In fairness, I've been driving it daily for a long commute even up to today. I suspect it's not really sellable though?

selectamatic

With the bit of tax combined with the few months test on the Saab it should sell no bother. You won't get much but it should sell all the same. Have a Gawk at dd and price accordingly and if needs be keep dropping the price till it's gone.

Well ware with the new yoke.

acronym Chilli

Just to add an update to the story. The Audi has been running grand since I got it, have about 400 miles on it so far. Bit less "go" to it than the Saab, though still grand for motorway overtaking. Also, it feels very "mellow" on the road which is actually what I want, and I'm tending to drive it a little slower (so far at least).

Post purchase, things I've noticed:

• Rear windscreen doesn't seem to heat
• One washer jet a bit feeble
• Engine running cool (took ages to warm up, and on cold day never got above 70C).

Brought it in for timing belt (w/pump, aux belt, coolant) yesterday also got service done, replaced thermostat, oil and filters. under €600.
One minor piece of work remaining (CV boot) will schedule in week after next. Mechanic said it's in good shape though and seems well cared for.

Re fuel-economy, have measured 6.95l/100km over the first 160 miles or so, but that included more town driving than usual, the tyres turned out to be under-pressure, and it was before the thermostat replacement. Should have a truer measure of that by the end of the week.

So, hopefully it goes well for me over the next few months. All in all, I'm happy with the purchase and still under budget (didn't set out to do bangernomics again, but that's what it is in the end, even factoring in the timing belt expense).

Thanks again everyone for all the helpful advice and supportive discussion. Definitely helped me out on this one.

A happy ending
Has the stat cured the cool running?
Sounds like a great bus to be be fair, hopefully you'll knock years out of it.

commited

Fair play, I always really liked those A6s, nearly bought an '04 in '07 but head got turned by a 530d instead. Well wear!

acronym Chilli

Augeo wrote: »

A happy ending
Has the stat cured the cool running?

I think so. Needle settles just to left of mid point and stays there. Didn't always do that before. It also warms up *much* more quickly. I'll see how the consumption goes in the next week.
(Had Punto with a bad stat before, similar symptoms although I replaced that one DIY)

acronym Chilli

Just thought I'd update on how the car has been going (not sure if that's the done thing)

It's been running well since I last posted. I have put 12,000 miles up on it since end of September. RE spending money on it: got full set of Michelin CrossClimates on it back in October I think, 2 bulbs replaced, put in some Lidl floor mats, and had it in for one further service a couple of weeks ago.

The young guy who serviced it (not the boss) identified some things he thought it might fail NCT on. I brought it in for an early NCT last week to get a truer picture on NCT situation, and it came through with no defects and no observations, so I've now got NCT to May 2019.

Only apparent defect right now is an auxilliary/alternator belt squeal now and again just after starting. Had the belt changed when the timing belt was done, so I'll be disappointed if there's a significant problem there. I'll be following up with main mechanic shortly.

All in all, I'm still very happy with my purchase, and it's a comfortable and un-stressful drive for the regular commute.

richardsheil

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Only apparent defect right now is an auxilliary/alternator belt squeal now and again just after starting. Had the belt changed when the timing belt was done, so I'll be disappointed if there's a significant problem there. I'll be following up with main mechanic shortly.

All in all, I'm still very happy with my purchase, and it's a comfortable and un-stressful drive for the regular commute.

Probably just the freewheel in the alternator pulley- not expensive.