Burning churches - Yay or Nay?

JupiterKid

Given the torment the once all powerful Catholic Church put many people in the country through, are you surprised that our churches haven't been a target for arson attacks?

I mean, there are thousands of churches in Ireland, and not one seems to have been burned down deliberately.Given the amount of people who are very very angry at the Church, I find this surprising.

Don't get me wrong, I think churches are mostly very beautiful and valuable buildings and in no way would I condone destroying them and I think as religion wanes in influence, many of them could be put to good use as community centres, apartments, offices etc. but I am surprised that some of them have not been torched.

In Norway back in the early/mid 90s, a group of Black Metal musicians, led by the infamous murderer and neo-nazi/paganist Varg Vikerenes, burned down a number of churches including the beautiful historic 850 year old Fanstoft stave church. They believed that Norway should return to its Viking pagan roots and remove Christianity from the country. Here is the story in more depth:

https://youtu.be/2Xwzm65SanM

Fleawuss

The building didn't do anything to anyone.

Guy:Incognito

If everyone went around burning the buildings of people they dislike, then whole country would be on fire. Thankfully the percentage of scumbags is still relatively low.

tonycascarino

Nay...I find the vast majority of people complaining about churches, priests and the catholic religion were never actually directly affected by it. They just complain about it because it is the cool thing to do.

Arghus

We need to have our own spin on the corpse-paint look before people will go in for this - turf-dust with some glitter?

Cee-Jay-Cee

I'd say it's partially because the people who were most effected by the Catholic Church are grown up mature people and those most likely to burn down a church or any building couldn't care less about the Catholic Church or its teachings.

topmanamillion

tonycascarino wrote: »

Nay...I find the vast majority of people complaining about churches, priests and the catholic religion were never actually directly affected by it. They just complain about it because it is the cool thing to do.

Pathetic statement.
Do people need to be directly affected by wrong doing to protest or speak out against them?
There is no argument that the Catholic Church and its clergy has carried out unspeakable acts.

As for burning churches, nay. The buildings could be used as theatres, schools, libaries or other such civic amenities.

Chain Smoker

What're you on about? They set fire to a cathedral down in Longford a few Christmases ago!

Admittedly the "they" in question is just someone who forgot to turn off a heater, but it still counts.

JupiterKid

Here is Norwegian church arsonist Varg Vikerenes trying to justify the church burning he was involved in.

Between 1992 and 1997 about 50 churches burned down in Norway. Most are believed to have been copycat attacks inspired by the messages of Vikerenes's Black metal band Burzum. A small number of churches burned down in the USA are also believed to have been a consequence of followers of Vikerenes.

https://goo.gl/images/3LjYdF

Arghus

Chain Smoker wrote: »

What're you on about? They set fire to a cathedral down in Longford a few Christmases ago!

Admittedly the "they" in question is just someone who forgot to turn off a heater, but it still counts.

I wonder was it a heater constructed of black metal.

buried

All these church buildings would make great nightclubs. That's where the Norwegian Black metal minstrels missed a trick, instead of torching these things they should have just bought them and played gigs in them, like this

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

the evasion_kid

JupiterKid wrote: »

Here is Norwegian church arsonist Varg Vikerenes trying to justify the church burning he was involved in.

Between 1992 and 1997 about 50 churches burned down in Norway. Most are believed to have been copycat attaches inspired by the messages of Vikerenes's Black metal band Burzum. A small number of churches burned down in the USA are also believed to have been a consequence of followers of Vikerenes.

https://goo.gl/images/3LjYdF

I remember all that when it was going on,didnt he murder someone in a rival band?

Thelomen Toblackai

Don't think arson is very popular in Ireland. Probably a little bit too proactive for most people.

Plus it'd be hard to go burning the thing down after handing over the hundred euro to the Priest when he went round the parish begging for money to do up the roof...

Esel

Barn-burning is OK, as long as you hate the owner and you chaw tobacco.

For church-burning, you don't have to go neo-fascist. Never mind the religious wars of yore.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

So, nay to hate crimes.

BlaasForRafa

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I remember all that when it was going on,didnt he murder someone in a rival band?

He murdered Euronymous who was guitarist and leader of the band Mayhem. Grishnachkt was bassist for the band at the time.

riffmongous

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I remember all that when it was going on,didnt he murder someone in a rival band?

Yeah, and iirc he was pretty far right, just a horrible person who made a few decent songs along with a lot of **** ones

GerB40

Nah you can't do that. I detest the Catholic Church and I'll be the happiest man alive when it inevitably falls. But every time I pass the church in my town I do be in awe. And there's hundreds of towns just like mine..

IvyTheTerrible

During the height of the French revolution, lots of damage was done to churches and many interesting historical artefacts were lost. That was an awful shame.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

I mean, there are thousands of churches in Ireland, and not one seems to have been burned down deliberately.Given the amount of people who are very very angry at the Church, I find this surprising.
...
In Norway back in the early/mid 90s, a group of Black Metal musicians, led by the infamous murderer and neo-nazi/paganist Varg Vikerenes, burned down a number of churches...

We certainly have plenty of churches.

Evidently what we may lack is murdering neo nazi paganists to do the job. I don't find that surprising.

We had our burning phase. Large houses during the War of Independence. Pity, lost some nice ones...

Your Face

This is a poll?!
Bwahahahahahaa

Mr. CooL ICE

I used to work with a Norwegian girl who is also a huge black metal fan, and has been forever. Best of friends with some members of Enslaved and all. She detests the fact that her local church was burned down, despite her never being in it. It was a huge part of the small community she was in. She said the only people who thought burning the church was a good idea were the people who burned it.

I hate the RCC and all it stands for, but burning churches is a ridiculous idea, Norway in the 90s aside. It wouldn't suddenly make people stop being catholics. If anything, it would strengthen their faith.

Speedwell

My father is from a village in the east of Hungary. More than twenty years after leaving Hungary, he took the family (Mom and the three of us kids) back to Hungary to see his parents and all the cousins, who lived at that time in Budapest. We took a side trip to the old village so we could see where Dad was born. He looked around at the two or three rows of houses backed by farmland, the tired village pub, and the decrepit church with its shattered windows, and silently went to sit on the riverbank while we waited. He came back to the car, got in, and drove us back to the city. He never spoke about the trip again.

If your object was to point out the irrelevance of religion and how much you hated it, you could really do no better than leaving a church to go to wreck and ruin not very poetically in the middle of a poor countryside. Burning it would be too passionate a thing.

RDM_83 again

OP it's not like Church burning never happend in Ireland, are people blind to what happens 50 miles north of the border because it didn't impact the people with a self centred free state bubble view of Ireland.
Church I used to go to as a child was + deliberately) burned to the ground in 1997, same time period as the Norwegian stuff and much closer but obviously it's a bit less glam.

osarusan

The churches up in Harlem? Like in the Spanish civil war?

andekwarhola

osarusan wrote: »

The churches up in Harlem? Like in the Spanish civil war?

:pac:




Songs in the Attic version is the best.

HalloweenJack

I detest organised religion but I also respect people's freedom to do what they like.

Burning down their place of worship is just sucmbag behaviour.

There are other ways which are far more decent to damage organised religions, e.g. not going, not allowing them our taxes, etc.

Winterlong

Lets burn a few Orange halls while we are at it. And the Department of Finance.
And schools.
And my work place..

Speedwell

Winterlong wrote: »

Lets burn a few Orange halls while we are at it. And the Department of Finance.
And schools.
And my work place..

He's got a little list.

seamus

Some great examples of architecture and hall construction in churches. From an historical perspective, you can't change the past only study it. So it would be a shame to pull down buildings when they have some academic merit.

In a "stick it to the church" vein, I prefer to see an old church converted into something modern and purposeful. It's far more symbolic of the collapse of the church in Ireland than a burned-out church is.

The flying mouse

Pubs, we should burn all the pubs, there Ruining our people with there selling of the Devils buttermilk, dam them all to hell...

Speedwell

The flying mouse wrote: »

Pubs, we should burn all the pubs, there Ruining our people with there selling of the Devils buttermilk, dam them all to hell...

That sounds like a hell of a cocktail name

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Thread closed as it's proposing the destruction buildings that would be close to many people's hearts.

Tombi!

mod: After discussion we'll reopen this. Apologies for any trouble caused by it.
But please note that while we're opening this again, do be careful of what you say.
Thanks folks.

conorhal

Al Qaeda and IS are fond of blowing up and burning down Churches, temples, the mosques of those that just aren't quite Muslim enough for them, would you really want to be that kind of 'liberal' that makes you indistinguishable from those loons?

...And Justice

Not a religious fan either, but what you're proposing is what the nut jobs in Iraq and Syria do, burning down mosques and desecrating holy grounds of people of other faiths.

The next step is murdering the people that have those beliefs to finally rid the country of the particular faiths.

Is this the next step op? Do atheists hate people that are religious?

Widdershins

Because arson isn't clever

Huntergonzo

I don't think burning churches is the way to go, but you could confiscate them and turn them into something genuinely useful such as abortion clinics and/or brothels.

opinionated3

I'm catholic OP.....would you like to burn the church empty or with me in it?

Irish Guitarist

If you don't like churches don't go to one.

Speedwell

opinionated3 wrote: »

I'm catholic OP.....would you like to burn the church empty or with me in it?

I suppose that depends on whether you're actually suicidal, or merely trying to goad someone into being destructive.

The_Valeyard

I wonder if I started thread, should we burn down asylum centres, traveller sites, mosques it be closed pretty quick. Wonder why this was locked and opened again. Must have checked the rule book, Christianity okay to poll about burning down churches, etc. Other faiths or ethnic groups, protected species.

OP all your suggestion would do is divide Irish society.

CrabRevolution

Nah, burning something requires a bit of drive and initiative. Not something keyboard warriors are known for.

opinionated3

Tbh i find this thread quite disturbing. I've been lucky enough to grow up and live in a parish where the bond between community and church was always pretty strong. We were/are also blessed with priests who cared a lot for us and did a lot for the area. Alas, this is after hours. ....where its seemingly acceptable to mock those of faith.

Speedwell

opinionated3 wrote: »

Alas, this is after hours. ....where its seemingly acceptable to mock those of faith.

GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!!!!!1!!!

opinionated3

Speedwell wrote: »

GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!!!!!1!!!

good one.

The_Valeyard

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Nah, burning something requires a bit of drive and initiative. Not something keyboard warriors are known for.

But they could type ao fast and angrily the keyboard could catch fire.

Jimbob1977

o Burn down churches

o Destroy priceless ancient monuments in Syria and Iraq (ISIS/Taliban)

o Burn down synagogues

o Destroy the cross on Carrauntoohil with an angle grinder

o Convert Glendalough into an atheist interpretive centre, maybe?

o Use Newgrange as a pub, perhaps?


Why not just destroy history? Let's burn down libraries while we're at it.

People who destroy 'antiquity' tend to be more intolerant than the religions they despise.

dav3

Nah, we leave the church burning to loyalist paramilitaries in this country.
Taking the churches and their land and redistributing the vast wealth to people who deserve it, may be a better option.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I would never condone the burning of any religious building, be it a church, mosque or temple. Even thinking about it gives me chills.

Speedwell

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I would never condone the burning of any religious building, be it a church, mosque or temple. Even thinking about it gives me chills.

I agree; I can't think why it would ever be necessary to dispose of any structure (sacred or secular) by burning.