Cash flow tight?

blue5000

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

Lady Haywire

Sell a kidney. :pac:

Ah no seriously though AirBnB has been a massive help to us. Plus you get to meet lots of cool people. You'd want to be fairly handy with the washing machine though :P

whelan2

I learnt from last August, I now have a few calves to sell. Wont have as many culls but milk price is supposed to be onthe up and BPS/ Disadvantaged area payments will be in soon.

Mooooo

Rearing the replacements is the big cost when building numbers back up. If it was early days possibly buying in springers would be a way but you have most of the cost of the heifers born mow that they are in calf. Cash is tight here too at the min, locked up as well but hoping to.go clear in sep and will have a shot of calves to.go then not that they'll cover much. Not much help for you but when building numbers things do get tight

quadrifoglio verde

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

Do you have an empty shed or two? I'm paying 2K for a 1000sq foot shed on a man's farmyard for the year to store my cars
Nice earner if you've one sitting empty filled with crap and there's plenty of car nuts out there who'd love dry storage but can't find it
That is 20 minutes from Dublin though so prices would obviously be less the further away from urban areas you are

Timmaay

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

It's a little late now I know ha, but ya gotta ask yourself what happened to the income from all the cows you culled for tb last year? Did you reinvest that money, or largely spend it (if nothing else to avoid tax etc ha)? Defo too late but ideally you should have been thinking forward then and predicted that you'd have very few to cull this year as a result, and maybe done out a basic cashflow plan or simple put afew quid aside from the sale last year for this year. Obviously all this in the past now, hindsight is 20:20 and all that, but once ya take a lesson from it moving forward.

blue5000

I hear you Timmay, easier said than done, paid off a lot of bills alright and kept loans up to date. Didn't want to buy in cattle as we have a closed herd, but with 20;20 hindsight a few fr bullocks bought cheap last back end would have helped bridge the gap.

Willfarman

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

Wouldn't see a thing wrong with selling the Bulls as weanlings. It's the year to do it.

Sam Kade

Cut living expenses to the bone and stay away from the pub for a year

whelan2

Sam Kade wrote: »

Cut living expenses to the bone and stay away from the pub for a year

ye send kids back to school bare foot

blue5000

whelan2 wrote: »

ye send kids back to school bare foot

Ya the €110 runners are hard to stomach alright.

dh1985

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

I don't know your exact cow numbers so this maybe irrelevant but I found when building numbers it made more financial sense to let someone else concentrate on breeding the maternal heifers and buy them in and focused on breeding terminal animals that generally command a higher price especially if you are left with a number of lighter maternal bull weanlings when selling. My cow numbers may be smaller than yours so it may not work.as well.and.you also.have the issues that.come.with buying in.Stock and all.that. it would be nice to see some breakdown in what is the best approach financially if all things are factored in. Just my two cents worth. It may not be everyone's choice.

whelan2

blue5000 wrote: »

Ya the €110 runners are hard to stomach alright.

Tell me about it, sold some calves yesterday and had to get runners for the eldest lad today 95 euro :eek:

Lady Haywire

blue5000 wrote: »

Ya the €110 runners are hard to stomach alright.

whelan2 wrote: »

Tell me about it, sold some calves yesterday and had to get runners for the eldest lad today 95 euro :eek:

That makes so much more sense when I realised ye weren't on about the runners that go through the calf ring :D

Sam Kade

whelan2 wrote: »

Tell me about it, sold some calves yesterday and had to get runners for the eldest lad today 95 euro :eek:

Is that because he wants a certain brand or were they the cheapest you could get?

whelan2

Sam Kade wrote: »

Is that because he wants a certain brand or were they the cheapest you could get?

He looked at a few pairs, these are to do him for the year at school had to be all black-as in no white sole- yes he probably could have gotten cheaper ones, but they would be so uncool

jfh

Willfarman wrote: »

Wouldn't see a thing wrong with selling the Bulls as weanlings. It's the year to do it.

correct me if i'm wrong, but blue breeds angus, so selling weanlings might not be the best course of action?

visatorro

Dare I say offer your services to a dairy lad for March and April. Bring in a few quid. Strictly above board of course!
It's too cold in January or February to be outside.

This is something the comic bring up alot. Short term labour, but I personally don't see it happening around here anyway. I'd rather work for a few hours for a lad I knew then rent out a room in my house to a stranger

Panch18

Willfarman wrote: »

Wouldn't see a thing wrong with selling the Bulls as weanlings. It's the year to do it.

The danger of this is that you greatly reduce your sales for next year and end up with a bigger cashflow problem next year - of course you need to live this year before you get to next year

If you go down this road you need to plan carefully I would say, if you did this I agree with Vistarro who said to help out a dairy lad in the spring (not that their cashflow will be any better than yours)

blue5000

dh1985 wrote: »

I don't know your exact cow numbers so this maybe irrelevant but I found when building numbers it made more financial sense to let someone else concentrate on breeding the maternal heifers and buy them in and focused on breeding terminal animals that generally command a higher price especially if you are left with a number of lighter maternal bull weanlings when selling. My cow numbers may be smaller than yours so it may not work.as well.and.you also.have the issues that.come.with buying in.Stock and all.that. it would be nice to see some breakdown in what is the best approach financially if all things are factored in. Just my two cents worth. It may not be everyone's choice.

Trying to get back up to 50 cows, was left with 22 last year, calved 35 this year. Agree on the weanlings, I'd rather get 14-1500 next june for a finished bull.

visatorro

Panch18 wrote: »

The danger of this is that you greatly reduce your sales for next year and end up with a bigger cashflow problem next year - of course you need to live this year before you get to next year

If you go down this road you need to plan carefully I would say, if you did this I agree with Vistarro who said to help out a dairy lad in the spring (not that their cashflow will be any better than yours)

Cashflow mightnt be better but with megalomania kicking in they will need help.

Lady Haywire

visatorro wrote: »

This is something the comic bring up alot. Short term labour, but I personally don't see it happening around here anyway. I'd rather work for a few hours for a lad I knew then rent out a room in my house to a stranger

Understand that completely! Only reason we do it is because we have an entire house to let. Wouldn't dream of just letting a room in the house out, jaypers you'd never have peace. We just hand over the keys, show them round and bye bye!
Maybe I should add something extra on.....sponsor a Leitrim cow for €12 a year, get a lock of her hair and monthly updates

Sam Kade

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Understand that completely! Only reason we do it is because we have an entire house to let. Wouldn't dream of just letting a room in the house out, jaypers you'd never have peace. We just hand over the keys, show them round and bye bye!
Maybe I should add something extra on.....sponsor a Leitrim cow for €12 a year, get a lock of her hair and monthly updates

2 of my sister in laws take in students for the whole year, 2 at a time, I don't know how they do it as your house is never your own. Some of them are grand but they get the odd awkward one.

Count Mondego

Does the wife work, Blue? Friend of mine at work was in a bad way last year financially, 3 kids hitting teens and wife at home. She hadn't worked in 20 years but got a good job handy enough and is now bringing in a few hundred a week extra. She's much happier now too.

I simply wouldn't survive if I was farming full-time and I've a big enough farm and herself has a good job.

Timmaay

Sam Kade wrote: »

2 of my sister in laws take in students for the whole year, 2 at a time, I don't know how they do it as your house is never your own. Some of them are grand but they get the odd awkward one.

There is a very generous rent a room tax allowance for doing the likes of this in fairness.

Brown Podzol

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

Have any spare grass. A tightly stocked dairy farmer might take grazing for a couple of months from now on for in calf heifers. Per head per day.
Any unclaimed vat.
Any timber. I have c. two acres of Sitka planted in the sixties by the people that came before me. Forrester told me lately it's worth 8/10 k net to clear fell it.
Any bits of machinery not necessary for the winter you could sell.
Fencing , coppicing, hedge planting for glass.
Always people looking for Bangor slates if you have an old stall or house in poor repair that you don't intend repairing.
Etc.

yewtree

Is it possible to refinance any capital expenditure done out of cash flow over the last few years?
I'd say everyone that has built up numbers/expanded has been in the same boat at some stage.

Sam Kade

Timmaay wrote: »

There is a very generous rent a room tax allowance for doing the likes of this in fairness.

Yeah, it goes a fair bit towards paying for their mortgages.

ganmo

Lady Haywire wrote: »

sponsor a Leitrim cow for €12 a year, get a lock of her hair and monthly updates

does that not mess with your hairdo? :P

Lady Haywire

ganmo wrote: »

does that not mess with your hairdo? :P

:eek: :pac:

pedigree 6

ganmo wrote: »

does that not mess with your hairdo? :P

I'd say the poor sponsor's head would be recked trying to figure out what breed of bovine has pink hair.:D

Lady Haywire

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I'd say the poor sponsor's head would be recked trying to figure out what breed of bovine has pink hair.:D

:pac:

*gets coat*

Sam Kade

blue5000 wrote: »

Trying to get back up to 50 cows, was left with 22 last year, calved 35 this year. Agree on the weanlings, I'd rather get 14-1500 next june for a finished bull.

How about getting a credit line account with AIB, if you pay it off within 11 months there will be very little interest on it. I got 5k for €30 interest 2 years ago. That way you could keep the weanlings until next June get a better price for them.

Username John

Sam Kade wrote: »

How about getting a credit line account with AIB, if you pay it off within 11 months there will be very little interest on it. I got 5k for €30 interest 2 years ago. That way you could keep the weanlings until next June get a better price for them.

Do you bank with them normally Sam? Was there much terms and conditions attached?

It sounds interesting...

Sam Kade

Username John wrote: »

Do you bank with them normally Sam? Was there much terms and conditions attached?

It sounds interesting...

Yeah they are my main bank. You just give them your accounts usual loan application and apply for the amount you want. You don't have to take all of it you could apply for 8k and only take 5k and just pay interest on what you use. You can keep it active from year to year by taking money out of it.

RightTurnClyde

Sam Kade wrote: »

Yeah they are my main bank. You just give them your accounts usual loan application and apply for the amount you want. You don't have to take all of it you could apply for 8k and only take 5k and just pay interest on what you use. You can keep it active from year to year by taking money out of it.

And You need to clear it as well once a year for 30 days to keep it going

Sam Kade

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

And You need to clear it as well once a year for 30 days to keep it going

I made the mistake of not using it the second year so I'll have to apply again.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Sam Kade wrote: »

I made the mistake of not using it the second year so I'll have to apply again.

I'm looking at it for next spring to finance a full load of fertiliser and the spring ration. It looks like I could be sparing a good bit of money between the low interest and discount on an artic of fertiliser and better price on ration from paying on delivery.

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it just me or is cash extra tight on farms this year for everyone?

Normally we sell 8-10 cull cows over the summer, fattened off grass. But so many older cows went with tb last year, this summer we only had 2. I know I am trying to re-build numbers so a lot of heifers have gone in-calf, some of which would have been sold to bring in cash, but this year I'm seriously thinking of selling weanling bulls just to pay bills.

Anyone else got any tips?

It all depends on the weanling bulls. Are they heavy enough to come into 750-800 + euro. Store prices are still too strong this year relative to the longterm outlook. You could pick up cattle later in the year for a cheaper cost or even nextr spring.

blue5000 wrote: »

Trying to get back up to 50 cows, was left with 22 last year, calved 35 this year. Agree on the weanlings, I'd rather get 14-1500 next june for a finished bull.

That 14-1500 bul might only be 12-1300 next year

RightTurnClyde

Sam Kade wrote: »

I made the mistake of not using it the second year so I'll have to apply again.

No fear of that here

Bullocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It all depends on the weanling bulls. Are they heavy enough to come into 750-800 + euro. Store prices are still too strong this year relative to the longterm outlook. You could pick up cattle later in the year for a cheaper cost or even nextr spring.



That 14-1500 bul might only be 12-1300 next year

I'd be doing the sums on that one aswell to see am I adding value or not . But if it's blacks blue has they might not be great sellers as weanlins

Muckit

Bullocks wrote: »

if it's blacks blue has they might not be great sellers as weanlins

That has to be discrimination!!

MF290

Timmaay wrote: »

There is a very generous rent a room tax allowance for doing the likes of this in fairness.

A lot of it cash in hand even with the allowance!

Dawggone

Honestly Lads/lasses, if you can't pay for everyday bills as they come through the door, you're getting some other fool to support your business...contractor, merchant, or whatever eegit decides that you're more important than him....

Stop codding yourselves...

The business either supports itself or it doesn't.




I'm finding cash flow tricky atm...but ALL bills paid within 30 days.

How many of ye do likewise?

Lady Haywire

Dawggone wrote: »

Honestly Lads/lasses, if you can't pay for everyday bills as they come through the door, you're getting some other fool to support your business...contractor, merchant, or whatever eegit decides that you're more important than him....

Stop codding yourselves...

The business either supports itself or it doesn't.




I'm finding cash flow tricky atm...but ALL bills paid within 30 days.

How many of ye do likewise?

Pretty much, yes. All cheques/payments issued here within a week or so, unless it's a large one eg vets/silage/slurry as we'd negotiate a discount when the invoice is sent out or when we meet them on the road somewhere.
But we get a few lads holding onto cheques for aaaaaages before cashing them or people saying (no joke!!) oh I'll get you next month or at the start of next year. Cash flow is tricky alright, the issue is building up the egg that you can work from......and leaving it in the account without buying new things!

Keepgrowing

OP, is this an income problem or too much going out problem. Sounds stupid but bear with me.

Have you identified the major out goings?

There are bills that must be paid as Dawg said i.e. Suppliers, contractors etc.

Have you spent cash on capx in the last few years should have been put on a term loan? If so do so and do it for long enough not to be crippled with repayments.

No body can advise without some detail.

If you've no income ie no sales you have to create some. Sell stock, get work or lease farm.

You must identify the cause of the problem.

Dawggone

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Pretty much, yes. All cheques/payments issued here within a week or so, unless it's a large one eg vets/silage/slurry as we'd negotiate a discount when the invoice is sent out or when we meet them on the road somewhere.
But we get a few lads holding onto cheques for aaaaaages before cashing them or people saying (no joke!!) oh I'll get you next month or at the start of next year. Cash flow is tricky alright, the issue is building up the egg that you can work from......and leaving it in the account without buying new things!

Madame Haywire,..when I meet them on the road or somewhere??

Lovely.


Really hate when you write cheques and they're nof cashed for months. Pet hate.

Lady Haywire

Dawggone wrote: »

Madame Haywire,..when I meet them on the road or somewhere??

Lovely.


Really hate when you write cheques and they're nof cashed for months. Pet hate.

Most of our contract work is done by people living near us so we'd see them quite often

Keepgrowing

Dawggone wrote: »

Honestly Lads/lasses, if you can't pay for everyday bills as they come through the door, you're getting some other fool to support your business...contractor, merchant, or whatever eegit decides that you're more important than him....

Stop codding yourselves...

The business either supports itself or it doesn't.




I'm finding cash flow tricky atm...but ALL bills paid within 30 days.

How many of ye do likewise?

All invoices paid monthly. All cheques posted last week of the month and not without invoice. If invoice arrives after 20th they wait till next month. One guy who does baling for us will only invoice in October, I've given up trying to pay him earlier in the year. Tractor service garage only invoice after SFP.

Who2

I try to pay on time but it doesn't always work that way. Locked up here at the moment and while I've a fairly decent batch of extra cattle to sell next spring in going to be drip feeding a few lads. It's all great to be able to pay straight away but dawg you've to remember there's a lot of us here that are a lot younger than you and mightn't just have the same backing as you. Everyone's situation is different and while from a financial perspective it's the right thing to say just sell up its not always that straight forward.

Dawggone

Who2 wrote: »

I try to pay on time but it doesn't always work that way. Locked up here at the moment and while I've a fairly decent batch of extra cattle to sell next spring in going to be drip feeding a few lads. It's all great to be able to pay straight away but dawg you've to remember there's a lot of us here that are a lot younger than you and mightn't just have the same backing as you. Everyone's situation is different and while from a financial perspective it's the right thing to say just sell up its not always that straight forward.

Thanks for the honesty.

Just to shake it up a little....what if you had to do business in a country that didn't do credit support in any way whatsoever?