Ires Fund landlord issue - get deposit back

Motorstorm

Hi,

Has anyone had an issue with Ires Fund before? Well, I do.
I've left an apartment in KingsCourt in North King Street in the end of May. Everything went fine giving back the apartment, fillling out the paperwork and so on. Then, we got our deposit back and it was 150 euros short. After a little bit of interaction we realized that those 150 euros were because of 3 month parking we didn't pay which was incorrect as we cancelled the car parking and returned the fob and license in person in Ires Fund office in Grand Canal.

We are not trying to have this sorted out since then. In between calls and emails many weeks have gone by. They already gave us the information on the phone that they realized the issue on their side and that the 150 euros would be deposited back on our account and they just don't do it.

This shows a lack of competence since the beginning. We are constantly sent to talk to one person, that person sends us back to another person and so on (<names snipped> lost count!). Getting people on the phone is very complicated. Nobody really tries to understand and have the issue sorted out. I'm not in Ireland anymore so I can't go know on their door and ask for the 150 euros back so the only thing that we can do now is to try to get Threshold help.

They are constantly changing people and this impacts the end result to the tenant. As we know, housing is short in Dublin City Center, and expensive, so there is no point in adising people to stay away from Ires Fund as people just want to get an apartment so it is what it is but if anyone as a suggestion for me to handle this I do appreciate.

I did once mentioned I wanted to make a complaint about Ires Fund and they said for me to write an email to kcletting at iresfund.ie which - guess what - nobody ever replied.

It's a pitty that landlords - not all of course - keep doing whatever they want even when an apartment/house is returned in perfect state, cleaned, and so on.

As mentioned, my last resource for now is to request Threshold assistance which did work for me once back in Kilkenny so hopefully it will help now.

Regards

January

Mod Note: Moved from Dublin City to Accommodation & Property.

The_Conductor

If a deduction is unfairly or unreasonably made from a deposit (which they have verbally admitted to be the case)- you lodge a case with the Residential Tenancies Board.

I'd suggest you ring the office- and give them 3 or 4 working days to return the deduction- and inform them that on the elapse of these 3-4 days- that you will be lodging a case with the Residential Tenancies Board.

It is not in their interests to end up with an RTB dispute registered against them- it wouldn't look good if anyone were to Google them........

Motorstorm

The problem is that I can't access the main PRTB site for weeks now. Only the portal opens and on the top right corner when I click main site it does not display the website and ends with an error.

Regarding warning them, I've already done so. It did not resolve anything unfortunately. That is why I talk about a last resort unfortunately.

This was a case of mis communication on their part as an employee left the company and probably missed some procedure internally to register the cancellation of the car parking and although I was patient about this they did not do the effort of having this resolved quickly.

Pure incompetence.

_Kaiser_

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people not getting deposits back there and then when they hand back the keys?

I'm currently renting via an agency and it'll be working like this when I move out:

- Give notice
- Agree time for whatever final inspection they want to do
- Hand over keys on the last day/day agreed and receive deposit in return OR previously agreed that I'd keepthe last month's rent instead

Given the wild west nature of the rental sector in this country, there's not a chance I'd be waiting on someone to "wire it to me" afterwards - especially if dealing with an individual landlord.
Now before all the LL's get worked up about the lack of trust, how many of ye would allow a tenant move in without first having handed ye over cash?

SB_Part2

I had a similar issue when I was renting with IRES. They are incredibly difficult to deal with. I had given them back my fob a couple of months before I was planning to leave and they assured me the money would be refunded to me. When I didn't get the money I held it back from my last months rent. I have never withheld money from rent but I just knew they weren't going to give me the money back.

I don't know one person in my apartment block that left and got their full deposit back.

If you can't access the PTRB portal get someone else to put the claim in for you.

ted1

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people not getting deposits back there and then when they hand back the keys?

I'm currently renting via an agency and it'll be working like this when I move out:

- Give notice
- Agree time for whatever final inspection they want to do
- Hand over keys on the last day/day agreed and receive deposit in return OR previously agreed that I'd keepthe last month's rent instead

Given the wild west nature of the rental sector in this country, there's not a chance I'd be waiting on someone to "wire it to me" afterwards - especially if dealing with an individual landlord.
Now before all the LL's get worked up about the lack of trust, how many of ye would allow a tenant move in without first having handed ye over cash?

Because electricity and gas bills take some time and appear after the tenant leaves. Also some tenants conceal damage which may only be noticed shortly after they leave

The_Conductor

Phone no. is: 0818 30 30 37
E-Mail: Disputes@rtb.ie

Boater123

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm currently renting via an agency and it'll be working like this when I move out:

- Give notice
- Agree time for whatever final inspection they want to do
- Hand over keys on the last day/day agreed and receive deposit in return OR previously agreed that I'd keepthe last month's rent instead

When the time comes do let us know how you get on with that!

_Kaiser_

ted1 wrote: »

Because electricity and gas bills take some time and appear after the tenant leaves. Also some tenants conceal damage which may only be noticed shortly after they leave

Irrelevant if the bills are in the tenant's name surely? Any liability moves with them.

Boater123 wrote: »

When the time comes do let us know how you get on with that!

Shall do.. I certainly won't be left out of pocket or waiting for months.

Motorstorm

I can

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Because electricity and gas bills take some time and appear after the tenant leaves. Also some tenants conceal damage which may only be noticed shortly after they leave

Irrelevant if the bills are in the tenant's name surely? Any liability moves with them.

Boater123 wrote: »

When the time comes do let us know how you get on with that!

Shall do.. I certainly won't be left out of pocket or waiting for months.

I can understand your view and I agree with it but one thing is what we feel it's correct, another thing is how things happened. Under contracts like the one from iresFund we are not allowed to keep last month's rent for deposit, there are deadlines to return the deposit, there are certain aspects on the contract which are actually written including fees if we don't comply so at the time of the rental, due to the lack of housing we pretty much sign something that is more or less according to what everyone demands being everyone usually the agencies where if it's a private landlord sometimes it might be different.

What happens here indeed is that there is an agency which is IresFund which is not complying with what is agreed and it's indeed robbing me in 150 euros.

It's funny to understand that it doesn't seem something isolated as per previous comments.

Boater123

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Irrelevant if the bills are in the tenant's name surely? Any liability moves with them.

Landlords know that they are not responsible for utility bills in the tenants name but need a final bill to show that the utility supply remained in the tenants name all the way up to them moving out.

It's not unheard of for a tenant to call the supplier a few weeks before they move, around the time they hand in the notice, and close their account. And/ or close an account with a deliberately incorrect reading

Some suppliers will not close the account unless it goes into some one else's name. But some will. Some will let it go back into the LL's name without telling the LL.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Shall do.. I certainly won't be left out of pocket or waiting for months.

I am especially looking forward to hear how you fare out when you tell your LL that you intend to illegally withhold the last months rent in lieu of deposit.

Also two pieces of advice:
You haven't moved out of a house until you hand the keys back. If you hold on to the keys until a "day agreed" and that day is after the termination date, don't be surprised LL looks to be paid for those days you held on to the keys.

You also say you're renting via an agency. It is not the agency's responsibility to return you're deposit unless the agency actually owns the property. It is your LL's responsibility.

Boater123

Motorstorm wrote: »

The problem is that I can't access the main PRTB site for weeks now. Only the portal opens and on the top right corner when I click main site it does not display the website and ends with an error.

You could always ring them, ask them to post you the forms and request mediation/ adjudication that way.

A little slower than online and maybe a €10 more.

_Kaiser_

Boater123 wrote: »

Landlords know that they are not responsible for utility bills in the tenants name but need a final bill to show that the utility supply remained in the tenants name all the way up to them moving out.

It's not unheard of for a tenant to call the supplier a few weeks before they move, around the time they hand in the notice, and close their account. And/ or close an account with a deliberately incorrect reading

Some suppliers will not close the account unless it goes into some one else's name. But some will. Some will let it go back into the LL's name without telling the LL.




I am especially looking forward to hear how you fare out when you tell your LL that you intend to illegally withhold the last months rent in lieu of deposit.

Also two pieces of advice:
You haven't moved out of a house until you hand the keys back. If you hold on to the keys until a "day agreed" and that day is after the termination date, don't be surprised LL looks to be paid for those days you held on to the keys.

You also say you're renting via an agency. It is not the agency's responsibility to return you're deposit unless the agency actually owns the property. It is your LL's responsibility.

The bottom line here is that I have never (ever in fact) missed or been late with rent, have caused no issues, and don't bother the agency unnecessarily (I don't even have the LL's contact details) and given that the crowd in question are pretty slow to respond generally I will be inviting them to ensure they do their inspection or whatever they wish in advance of the end date

But ultimately, I'm fully aware of the wild west nature of renting in this country and there's no way I will allow myself to be out of pocket if it comes down to that.

I don't foresee any real issues but I'll be prepared if there are.

PedroDublin

I am on that boat right now. I have to hand out the keys tomorrow to the agency but they say is the LL who has to return the deposit, only after I hand the keys and they tell the landlord the flat is ok. So tomorrow I'll be at the mercy of the LL to refund the deposit, quite nervous about it.

Also before handing the keys, the agency was suggesting get the flat professionally cleaned. I contacted on the of the numbers they gave me and their quote for a one bed apt. was 250 Euro. I have through fully cleaned the apartment, but cannot believe they expect me to spent that much on getting in clean.

I also found the new tenants for them, I could as well update their system with the information

Sorry for the rand

_Kaiser_

PedroDublin wrote: »

I am on that boat right now. I have to hand out the keys tomorrow to the agency but they say is the LL who has to return the deposit, only after I hand the keys and they tell the landlord the flat is ok. So tomorrow I'll be at the mercy of the LL to refund the deposit, quite nervous about it.

Also before handing the keys, the agency was suggesting get the flat professionally cleaned. I contacted on the of the numbers they gave me and their quote for a one bed apt. was 250 Euro. I have through fully cleaned the apartment, but cannot believe they expect me to spent that much on getting in clean.

I also found the new tenants for them, I could as well update their system with the information

Sorry for the rand

Unless the place was cleaned when/before you moved in, I wouldn't bother... you'll be out that money and whatever else they decide to deduct

I'd leave it as good as I found it. My place was by no means spotless and nothing has been done since in terms of painting etc so I'll be giving it a good cleaning (it's already/always been better than it was on day one) and leaving it at that

ted1

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Irrelevant if the bills are in the tenant's name surely? Any liability moves with them.



Shall do.. I certainly won't be left out of pocket or waiting for months.

No it's not irrelevant as the contract will state that all bills must be paid. Until the contract is fulfilled the deposit shouldn't be returned

The tenant also may have called in with a lower Meter reading.

ted1

PedroDublin wrote: »

I am on that boat right now. I have to hand out the keys tomorrow to the agency but they say is the LL who has to return the deposit, only after I hand the keys and they tell the landlord the flat is ok. So tomorrow I'll be at the mercy of the LL to refund the deposit, quite nervous about it.

Also before handing the keys, the agency was suggesting get the flat professionally cleaned. I contacted on the of the numbers they gave me and their quote for a one bed apt. was 250 Euro. I have through fully cleaned the apartment, but cannot believe they expect me to spent that much on getting in clean.

I also found the new tenants for them, I could as well update their system with the information

Sorry for the rand

Use hassle.com nowhere near 250 euro

Boater123

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The bottom line here is that I have never (ever in fact) missed or been late with rent, have caused no issues, and don't bother the agency unnecessarily (I don't even have the LL's contact details) and given that the crowd in question are pretty slow to respond generally I will be inviting them to ensure they do their inspection or whatever they wish in advance of the end date

But ultimately, I'm fully aware of the wild west nature of renting in this country and there's no way I will allow myself to be out of pocket if it comes down to that.

I don't foresee any real issues but I'll be prepared if there are.

You often use the analogy of the lawless wild west when referring to the rental system in this country.

You can't legitimately complain about the system, then pick and choose what parts of the law suits you. Can't you see that your proposed actions help make it lawless. Such as:

• You cannot expect an agency to hand back a deposit held by a LL on the day you leave, and hold back rent if they don't agree
• You cannot hold on to the keys of a property after you leave and not expect some recourse.
• It is illegal to use the security deposit as a rent payment.
• You cannot expect a final inspection to be done before you leave.

A tenant is supposed to pay rent in full on time. You don't get to disregard other aspects just because you fulfill one of your legal obligations as a tenant and pay rent on time.

The law should be followed by both tenant and LL. And the law says that the deposit should be returned in a reasonable time after the tenancy ends. There are genuine reasons why it states this, and doesn't say what you think should happen.

_Kaiser_

Boater123 wrote: »

You often use the analogy of the lawless wild west when referring to the rental system in this country.

You can't legitimately complain about the system, then pick and choose what parts of the law suits you. Can't you see that your proposed actions help make it lawless. Such as:

• You cannot expect an agency to hand back a deposit held by a LL on the day you leave, and hold back rent if they don't agree
• You cannot hold on to the keys of a property after you leave and not expect some recourse.
• It is illegal to use the security deposit as a rent payment.
• You cannot expect a final inspection to be done before you leave.

A tenant is supposed to pay rent in full on time. You don't get to disregard other aspects just because you fulfill one of your legal obligations as a tenant and pay rent on time.

The law should be followed by both tenant and LL. And the law says that the deposit should be returned in a reasonable time after the tenancy ends. There are genuine reasons why it states this, and doesn't say what you think should happen.

I've already called out that the agency in question are pretty slow to respond to the few issues I have had to raise. If I proceed as you suggest then I'm sure I'll be waiting months to get it cleared up which will be made more difficult as when I do move I'll no longer be in the area.

I see no reason why they can't do the inspection on the last day - they certainly have had no issue with inconveniencing me on numerous occasions by wanting to do inspections with <36 hour's notice (luckily from me I can work from home when needed). In this instance they'll be given plenty of notice in advance.

I've no interest in holding keys after the agreed end date, but I also see no reason why the deposit can't be ready on the day either as they'll be given the proper notice (about 45 days I think) which is more than enough time to notify and get it from the LL (I'd happily deal with said LL myself except I don't have contact details). If this is going to be an issue for them I'll be suggesting I'll retain the last month - if agreed fine.. if not then I'll be a little more "insistent" on the issue.

The bottom line is this.. I see no reason why I should be unnecessarily out of pocket or forced to pay more because of slow responsiveness on the LL's/agents side. I certainly have never had an issue in the past with getting monies returned when leaving and I expect the same to continue on this occasion.

You may disagree and complain about the legality, but as usual with this sector, reality often trumps any regulations that may apply and reading through this forum it's filled with good tenants who have nothing but hassle getting THEIR money back from a LL/agent after a tenancy ends - I don't intend to add to that statistic.

Motorstorm

PRTB responded advising to use Mediation and also added contacts from Threshold. I was trying to actually open the complaint by email but they do not act in that way.

Perhaps I will first contact Threshold and try to get their support and if it doesn't work then I can call the Mediation service of PRTB.

What do you think? Thank you

athtrasna

Motorstorm wrote: »

PRTB responded advising to use Mediation and also added contacts from Threshold. I was trying to actually open the complaint by email but they do not act in that way.

Perhaps I will first contact Threshold and try to get their support and if it doesn't work then I can call the Mediation service of PRTB.

What do you think? Thank you

Threshold are a charity. They give advice (though not always accurate) but can do little for you. Straight to the RTB if you want this sorted

Boater123

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've already called out that the agency in question are pretty slow to respond to the few issues I have had to raise. If I proceed as you suggest then I'm sure I'll be waiting months to get it cleared up which will be made more difficult as when I do move I'll no longer be in the area.

I see no reason why they can't do the inspection on the last day - they certainly have had no issue with inconveniencing me on numerous occasions by wanting to do inspections with <36 hour's notice (luckily from me I can work from home when needed). In this instance they'll be given plenty of notice in advance.

I've no interest in holding keys after the agreed end date, but I also see no reason why the deposit can't be ready on the day either as they'll be given the proper notice (about 45 days I think) which is more than enough time to notify and get it from the LL (I'd happily deal with said LL myself except I don't have contact details). If this is going to be an issue for them I'll be suggesting I'll retain the last month - if agreed fine.. if not then I'll be a little more "insistent" on the issue.

The bottom line is this.. I see no reason why I should be unnecessarily out of pocket or forced to pay more because of slow responsiveness on the LL's/agents side. I certainly have never had an issue in the past with getting monies returned when leaving and I expect the same to continue on this occasion.

You may disagree and complain about the legality, but as usual with this sector, reality often trumps any regulations that may apply and reading through this forum it's filled with good tenants who have nothing but hassle getting THEIR money back from a LL/agent after a tenancy ends - I don't intend to add to that statistic.

Guess you'll find out for yourself when the time comes:rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

Boater123 wrote: »

Guess you'll find out for yourself when the time comes:rolleyes:

Don't worry about me.. I've been renting a long time and tend to get things resolved to my satisfaction in general, but I appreciate your concern(!!)

Boater123

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've already called out that the agency in question are pretty slow to respond to the few issues I have had to raise. If I proceed as you suggest then I'm sure I'll be waiting months to get it cleared up which will be made more difficult as when I do move I'll no longer be in the area.

I see no reason why they can't do the inspection on the last day - they certainly have had no issue with inconveniencing me on numerous occasions by wanting to do inspections with <36 hour's notice (luckily from me I can work from home when needed). In this instance they'll be given plenty of notice in advance.

I've no interest in holding keys after the agreed end date, but I also see no reason why the deposit can't be ready on the day either as they'll be given the proper notice (about 45 days I think) which is more than enough time to notify and get it from the LL (I'd happily deal with said LL myself except I don't have contact details). If this is going to be an issue for them I'll be suggesting I'll retain the last month - if agreed fine.. if not then I'll be a little more "insistent" on the issue.

The bottom line is this.. I see no reason why I should be unnecessarily out of pocket or forced to pay more because of slow responsiveness on the LL's/agents side. I certainly have never had an issue in the past with getting monies returned when leaving and I expect the same to continue on this occasion.

You may disagree and complain about the legality, but as usual with this sector, reality often trumps any regulations that may apply and reading through this forum it's filled with good tenants who have nothing but hassle getting THEIR money back from a LL/agent after a tenancy ends - I don't intend to add to that statistic.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Don't worry about me.. I've been renting a long time and tend to get things resolved to my satisfaction in general, but I appreciate your concern(!!)

I do worry about you but only about the things that you post.... that some poor innocent reads that which you say you will do and acts upon your inferred advice, even though your proposed actions would be illegal.

That some poor innocent will try emulate that which you say that you will do, and find themselves in more grief than they would have found themselves in if they hadn't read your anti landlord rhetoric.

If you proceed as I loosely suggested previously, you are basically proceeding within the parameters of tenancy law.

If you, or anyone who believes you, proceeds as you suggest, you don't.

• You can't demand when a final inspection takes place.
  
• There is a reason why tenancy legislation says deposits must be returned in a reasonable time, after, the termination date. Why are you so adamant when you say it must be returned on the final day? Do you know more that the legislators?
  
• You did say that you would only return the keys on the termination date if the deposit was returned on the TD. You said failing that you would return them on an "agreed date". Unless you intended to return the keys and quit the property before the TD, then that "agreed date" would have to be after the TD. Which can only mean that you would hold onto the keys until after the TD. Did you forget you said this?
  
• Trying to blackmail the LL in advance that you will with hold the last months rent if the security deposit is not returned in full on the last day is not only illegal but downright ridiculous. Why tell them in advance? And give them a rent arrears stick to beat you with at a RTB adjudication? Incredulous!!

Your anti LL stance, reluctance to follow prescribed law and paranoia about deposit returns stops me from believing that you never had a problem before, despite the false bravado around your alleged "insistence".

And try to think laterally sometimes, maybe the reason the agency was slow to respond to the issues you previously raised/ caused was because they didn't want to contact the LL about some nonsensical issue about something that wasn't the LL's responsibility. (Btw you also said previously that you caused/raised no issues, post #14)

The_Conductor

Motorstorm wrote: »

PRTB responded advising to use Mediation and also added contacts from Threshold. I was trying to actually open the complaint by email but they do not act in that way.

Perhaps I will first contact Threshold and try to get their support and if it doesn't work then I can call the Mediation service of PRTB.

What do you think? Thank you

The RTB have a really good telephone shuttle mediation service these days- its a lot faster than waiting for a formal mediation in their offices- and in practice, at least as effective.

Their website is a heap of shíte at the moment though- I don't like using bad language- however, they're still blocking traffic from any non-Irish IP address ranges, any Irish IP addresses they don't readily recognise (such as SmartCom in Sligo/Eniskillen for example) and any IP ranges not in regular use (such as the BT fall-over service employed widely in businesses, including most government departments.

Telephone mediation as a first stop- ignore Threshold, the information they dispense is questionable at best.

_kookie

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people not getting deposits back there and then when they hand back the keys?

I'm currently renting via an agency and it'll be working like this when I move out:

- Give notice
- Agree time for whatever final inspection they want to do
- Hand over keys on the last day/day agreed and receive deposit in return OR previously agreed that I'd keepthe last month's rent instead

Given the wild west nature of the rental sector in this country, there's not a chance I'd be waiting on someone to "wire it to me" afterwards - especially if dealing with an individual landlord.
Now before all the LL's get worked up about the lack of trust, how many of ye would allow a tenant move in without first having handed ye over cash?

Fairly standard now to have a clause in the lease that states that the deposit will be returned by cheque within x amount of days - usually 7 - after the tenant has left and returned keys etc.

_kookie

You can cross cheque out. Thats not standard nanymore either

Motorstorm

Update: I contacted Threshold which contacted IresFund by phone and the Threshold agent received the information that the money was released from their bank account today and for me to wait 5 days.
This is the same information I've received 2 weeks ago and only shows incompentence on IresFund side and that eventually the contact from Threshold was helpful in order for them to finally resolve the issue.
Let's see within the next few days.
Hopefully I won't have to complain to PRTB.

Carawaystick

The_Conductor wrote: »

Their website is a heap of shíte at the moment though- I don't like using bad language- however, they're still blocking traffic from any non-Irish IP address ranges, any Irish IP addresses they don't readily recognise (such as SmartCom in Sligo/Eniskillen for example) and any IP ranges not in regular use (such as the BT fall-over service employed widely in businesses, including most government departments.

Why would they do this?! That's up there with the daftest thing I've heard about the public sector daftness

Michael D Not Higgins

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why would they do this?! That's up there with the daftest thing I've heard about the public sector daftness

It's to prevent DDoS attacks. It's a crude measure but easier and cheaper than the likes of CloudFlare like boards uses.

Motorstorm

We finally got the deposit back. The 150 euros that were missing.
Only took them 103 days to return the full deposit.