Form 11 - Do you need to fill out form 11 online this year?

yqtwqxqm

If you are PAYE and have investment properties what are the rules for Form 11 this year.
I received a paper form 11 but on it its very confusing.
It tells me I need to fill this out online, but im not sure if i meet the criteria.

For a PAYE worker who has investment properties will the paper Form 11 returned work for me.
It keeps telling me I already applied for a RAN number when I try on revenue online.

If I could just stick to the paper I would be happy.
If not what do I do?
Revenue wont answer the phone as usual.

myshirt

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you've missed a business opportunity.

Op, put the hand into the pocket and get an accountant.

Free tip: Look at Form 12.

riclad

MY friend has 1 property rented out,
She fills out 1 tax form every year ,i help her fill it out.
I thinks its form 11 self assessment tax return ,
Shes on paye ,works in an office.
she puts in reciepts for property tax,service charges,insurance,Prtb etc in the
envelope with the form ,and a letter from the bank, showing
Interest paid on loan re investment property mortgage statement for the tax year
2015 etc

You can fill in the form ,download it ,print it from revenue ie .
or get a form in your local tax office .
http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/self-assessment.html

If you are making a profit on the property ,then hire an accountant .
an accountant will do your tax return for 200 euros approx.
The 200 euro cost can be claimed as a tax allowance ,from the tax due on the rental income .



For charges ,expenses over 20 euro,its best to put in a receipt or copy of the receipt ,
in with the tax return in the envelope .
i filled in her tax returns since 2010 .
she puts the form, tax return,with receipts, in an envelope and sends by post it to to the
tax office listed on the form.
i see no info on revenue.ie ,that says you must fill in all the forms online.

smunchkins

There is mandatory filing for Form 11 these days if you have earnt over €5,000 through non-PAYE means.
I had dreadful trouble sorting it, as it doesn't matter if you have are already registered on PAYE Online, you have to register with ROSOnline (separate system) and they have to send you out two different letters, and you have to have a unique computer to access and use the digital certificate to submit (don't bother filling out the pdf form for proper submission, they won't take it, I tried that too : you have to go through their online one then and declare for capital gains at the same time)
Here is the ROS info :
http://www.revenue.ie/en/online/ros/mandatory-e-filing.html#section1

And here is the Citizen's advice link, which lists the €5,000 cut off.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/how_to_comply_with_your_tax_obligations.html

riclad

If you are a chargeable person you must make your income tax return and self-assess your tax liability. You have the following options:

You can fill out a paper Form 11 (pdf) and send to Revenue
You can use a shorter Form 11E which is an extract of the main personal Tax Return form
You can also file your Form 11 using Revenue’s Online System (ROS). Certain people must e-file using ROS.
Revenue also provide a Guide to Self Assessment (IT10) and helpsheets for both forms.

Note . above from citizens advice website .

You can fill out a paper Form 11 (pdf) and send to Revenue



I Presume send in form 11 by post to the tax office .
this seems to indicate that you can still send in tax return by post ,
form 11 .
My friend has 140k loan,
rent is about 450 per month.
she makes zero profit ,
after expenses ,service charges ,property tax, etc
her tax bill is zero euros .
i,ll fill in form 11 ,send it off in september and see what happens .


there seems to be a paradox between the advice on one website vs the advice on citizens advice website .


Form 11
If you are a chargeable person you must make your income tax return and self-assess your tax liability. You have the following options:

You can fill out a paper Form 11 (pdf) and send to Revenue
You can use a shorter Form 11E which is an extract of the main personal Tax Return form
You can also file your Form 11 using Revenue’s Online System (ROS). Certain people must e-file using ROS.
Revenue also provide a Guide to Self Assessment (IT10) and helpsheets for both forms.


You can also file your Form 11 using Revenue’s Online System (ROS). Certain people must e-file using ROS.

eg This implys some people can use the postal system to send in form 11.

i have another friend ,he has 3 tenants, earns 11k rental income,He
sends in tax return by post since 2006 .
self assessment return.

yqtwqxqm

thanks everyone for the replies.
Ive always filled in a shorter form before.
It was much easier than this.
I had registered for ROS when I had my company. but thats no more now.
I think ROS is confused now and wont let me register as PAYE or something strange.
I assume I have to redownload a digital certificate or something like that.
Their help system is next to useless.
I'll try calling them again during the week.

I did contact a couple of accountants and they quoted €400 for it.
Not really worth that much if I could get on the system.

smunchkins

I already contacted them about the really odd way PAYE anytime just does not want to interact with the regular ROS system. You do have to just accept that the PAYE one just isn't going to help much. With regards the obligations to file online, they sent me a letter saying about the change in rules last year (which is why I emailed to absolutely confirm).
They have now included PAYE people who earn over €5,000 from other income in the list of people who must submit online.
Yes I used to submit via paper too, we all did. It doesn't mean that continues indefinitely.
I agree their website sucks, plus it has PAYE USE FORM 12 plastered all over it, but after a 6 week wait for a reply from their emailing system they explained about the Form 11.
I understand from another friend that once you go through the rigmarole of filling out the long form 11 after a few years (if you've not got a complicated set-up) they will then let you back to doing the short form again.
If you have a variable extra income from year to year unfortunately you could theoretically alternate between being required to do it online and just submitting a paper one, but I'd stick with the online if you manage to actually get in to it. It is easier to check your history and records on it.
The online system has been implemented to automatically pick-up "discrepancies" if you fill it in wrong, so can well understand why they have forced people in to it - yes it is an absolute pain to set-up, but much much easier to assess, with the automatic calculation straight away - so I've become a fan, once they finally let me in

riclad

IF you work for a company they take care of all your paye, prsi, deductions .they take of all your tax deductions ,insurance ,pension etc in relation to your job there .
i think you can just register on ros , put in your prsi no,
fill in form 11 online .
Form 11 is to do with rental income ,income earned from stocks ,shares,bonds ,investments
outside your main job.
There,s one line re your total income ,
and another line re your rental income,
even using ros ,you,ll need to have the receipts re all expenses on the rental property and the bank statement re
total interest paid on the mortgage for tax year 2015 .
service charges,insurance ,property tax,any other expenses re rental property.
you need to show the unit is registered with the prtb to claim interest tax credits .

In your case form 11 is mainly to show rental income for self assessment ,
and all expenses incurred on the rental property in 2015
the difference between the 2 is taxable profit on the rental unit.

I Think its easier to just fill in paper form and in the envelope ,
put in maybe the 5 or 6 expense receipts and the letter from the bank ,
re mortgage interest paid .
and post it to the tax office .

I Don,t think theres any connection between your income
from the job under the paye system and the rental income declared on form 11 as a landlord .

if using ros use it from a pc or laptop ,
it may need a pc running windows 7 or 8 or windows 10.
use the chrome browser or an up to date version of internet explorer .
Some web forms require a pc with windows os with java installed .

AS far as i know form 11 has nothing to do with paye ,
you just put in your tax no or your prsi no.name adress etc
form 11 is for rental income or investment income earned outside your job as a paye worker working for a company .

maybe my friend is allowed not to used the ros system because her profit from rental
income is zero .her tax bill is zero euros ,on rental income .

Pawwed Rig

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

thanks everyone for the replies.
Ive always filled in a shorter form before.
It was much easier than this.
I had registered for ROS when I had my company. but thats no more now.
I think ROS is confused now and wont let me register as PAYE or something strange.
I assume I have to redownload a digital certificate or something like that.
Their help system is next to useless.
I'll try calling them again during the week.

I did contact a couple of accountants and they quoted €400 for it.
Not really worth that much if I could get on the system.

€400 would be very low and bear in mind the real cost would only be €200 if you are on the marginal rate so if I was you that is the route I would take.

If you were registered for ROS before then there is no reason why you would have deregistered unless you physically went in and clicked deregister.

Fair bit of bad info in this thread btw. LPT is not deductible for a start.

The only way a Form 11 should be filed is via ROS. In typical Irish fashion Revenue still accept paper filers though

yqtwqxqm

riclad wrote: »

IF you work for a company they take care of all your paye, prsi, deductions .they take of all your tax deductions ,insurance ,pension etc in relation to your job there .
i think you can just register on ros , put in your prsi no,
fill in form 11 online .
Form 11 is to do with rental income ,income earned from stocks ,shares,bonds ,investments
outside your main job.
There,s one line re your total income ,
and another line re your rental income,
even using ros ,you,ll need to have the receipts re all expenses on the rental property and the bank statement re
total interest paid on the mortgage for tax year 2015 .
service charges,insurance ,property tax,any other expenses re rental property.
you need to show the unit is registered with the prtb to claim interest tax credits .

In your case form 11 is mainly to show rental income for self assessment ,
and all expenses incurred on the rental property in 2015
the difference between the 2 is taxable profit on the rental unit.

I Think its easier to just fill in paper form and in the envelope ,
put in maybe the 5 or 6 expense receipts and the letter from the bank ,
re mortgage interest paid .
and post it to the tax office .

I Don,t think theres any connection between your income
from the job under the paye system and the rental income declared on form 11 as a landlord .

if using ros use it from a pc or laptop ,
it may need a pc running windows 7 or 8 or windows 10.
use the chrome browser or an up to date version of internet explorer .
Some web forms require a pc with windows os with java installed .

AS far as i know form 11 has nothing to do with paye ,
you just put in your tax no or your prsi no.name adress etc
form 11 is for rental income or investment income earned outside your job as a paye worker working for a company .

maybe my friend is allowed not to used the ros system because her profit from rental
income is zero .her tax bill is zero euros ,on rental income .

Thanks for that.
I might try that.
I have all the figures and have the form filled in. I was just trying to do it online and I cant even register. And wasnt sure if registering is compulsory.
But regardless, I cant even register when I try.

The only thing really that im stuck with is

Form 11 section 237. PAYE Tax Deducted /refunded.
I think I have to fill in this section with one of the values off of my P60 but not too clear on which one. Or maybe I dont have to fill it in at all since in 2015 my employer took care of that side of it. Very confusing notes on it from revenue too.

I dont really want to pay €400 for that little bit of info.

The other thing is my other half is entitled to Flat rate expenses which we have always entered via the PAYE website, but is there a section to also enter it on form 11?

Revenue just make things as clear as mud.

riclad

You are registered with the revenue as joe bloggs, works in company x,pris no x,
you would be better of start again ,click register New account on ROS .
Put in Name,adress , prsi no, see what happens .
i filled in form 11 on paper since 2009 .
the only delay my friend had was 1 letter from revenue by post,
please send in a receipt by post for service charges re 2014 tax year .
Before that i simply wrote down service charges 1100 on the form.

Ignore your old account ,if you registered on ros as a company.
form 11 is for persons who work as paye workers for a company ,but
Who also Have a rental income or other investments which need to be declared
and evaluated to see if its taxable after the right tax allowance,s are
are calculated .

Maybe phone your local tax office ask can i send in form 11 by post.

yqtwqxqm

riclad wrote: »

You are registered with the revenue as joe bloggs, works in company x,pris no x,
you would be better of start again ,click register New account on ROS .
Put in Name,adress , prsi no, see what happens .
i filled in form 11 on paper since 2009 .
the only delay my friend had was 1 letter from revenue by post,
please send in a receipt by post for service charges re 2014 tax year .
Before that i simply wrote down service charges 1100 on the form.

Ignore your old account ,if you registered on ros as a company.
form 11 is for persons who work as paye workers for a company ,but
Who also Have a rental income or other investments which need to be declared
and evaluated to see if its taxable after the right tax allowance,s are
are calculated .

Maybe phone your local tax office ask can i send in form 11 by post.

Thats exactly what I tried, But it came back and said I had already requested a RAN. And that was it. Absolutely no instructions on why or what to do from there.
You are right, i'll ask them can I send it in by post as soon as I figure out what to fill in in section 237 and the flat rate expenses.

It would be most helpful if they provided a full worked example mapping the P60 fields to the Form 11.
You would think they dont want the money

riclad

For the year 2015 , you put in the paye tax you payed ,from jan 1st to dec 31st 2015
this is on form ,p60 , provided by your employer .
i presume you got no refund,in 2015.re paye.

my advice on form 11 leave flat rate expenses blank,
for rental income,you can only claim, service charges, insurance,maintenance,interest on mortgage on rental property .
fees for prtb registration.
fees for agent or accountant,


theres 1 figure on form p60 ,paye PAID ,2015= 5400 for example .

flat rate expenses may refer to non rental expenses,
not relating to rental property.

you put in paye tax PAID for tax year 2015 .

if you got a paye refund ,For tax year 2015
write it in the line for paye refund if there is such a line on the form.

i have no idea what a RAN is ,in relation to tax.

maybe an ID no to acess the online ros acccount.

I Put in all my receiptsover 10 euro re expenses when filling in form 11,
the tax office will ignore any receipt or expense that is
not allowed as a tax credit against rental income anyway.

yqtwqxqm

riclad wrote: »

For the year 2015 , you put in the paye tax you payed ,from jan 1st to dec 31st 2015
this is on form ,p60 , provided by your employer .
i presume you got no refund,in 2015.re paye.

my advice on form 11 leave flat rate expenses blank,
for rental income,you can only claim, service charges, insurance,maintenance,interest on mortgage on rental property .
fees for prtb registration.
fees for agent or accountant,


theres 1 figure on form p60 ,paye PAID ,2015= 5400 for example .

flat rate expenses may refer to non rental expenses,
not relating to rental property.

you put in paye tax paid for tax year 2015 .

if you got a paye refund ,For tax year 2015
write it in the line for paye refund if there is such a line on the form.

Thanks very much for that info.
On the P60 there is a section that says tax (total net tax deducted in above year)
And another PRSI in this employment section.

Its the tax valuse that I want to enter on Form 11 right?

Thanks again.

riclad

i dont, have the form in front of me,

there may be a line for total tax paid,
so put in TOTAL tax paid as written your p60 .
there may be another line for prsi paid ,2015

then put in ONLY prsi paid as on form p60 .
if you need to put in extra info there maybe a notes section on form 11 .
or just write a note enclose it with the form.


total ta x paid or prsi paid ,
only relates to tax paid via your employer as a paye worker,

all that info should be on the p60 form,

total tax paid,

prsi tax paid ,

yqtwqxqm

riclad wrote: »

i dont, have the form in front of me,

there may be a line for total tax paid,
so put in TOTAL tax paid as written your p60 .
there may be another line for prsi paid ,2015

then put in ONLY prsi paid as on form p60 .
if you need to put in extra info there maybe a notes section on form 11 .
or just write a note enclose it with the form.


total ta x paid or prsi paid ,
only relates to tax paid via your employer as a paye worker

I'll do that. Thanks.
Your €400 is in the post

riclad

You get a 75 per cent tax credit on loan interest paid for the rental property .
say you made 4 k profit,after ALL expenses .
you could claim 400 tax credit for accountants ,fees,

this means your taxable profit is 3600 euros .
he fill in the tax form, he,ll need all expenses,reciepts and letter from bank,
loan interest paid in tax year 2015.

every 4 years the tenancy must be re registered with the prtb.

hold onto all reciepts, document that are connected to rental unit for 5 years at least,
hold onto form 11 ,

you may need to use it if sending in form 11 by post is not allowed .
You can get detailed advice if you call into your local tax office in person.
they are very helpful in my experience .

Many lines in the form won,t apply to you,
eg lines ,re ,bonds ,shares , children, spouse
if you are single , or have no children.

riclad

IF you are sending in form 11 by post ,you need to send in copys of expense reciepts ,Bank letter re 2015 mortgage loan interest and reciept for insurance ,/service charges on rental property.

riclad

Last year they asked me to send in by post a receipt for the service charges 1100 euro.
that,s the only time since 2009 they asked me for any receipt.

riclad

I Saw a booklet guide to self assessment ,in the tax office,
re ros , it says something like you need a RAN,
you need to get a digital certificate,
authenticate a certificate ,
as part of signing up for ROS .
I presume a Ran is some type of id no /customer reference no for the ros system.
what could be simpler .

You can read the book or take it home ,its 60 plus pages long.
covers all form of self assessment tax on rental investment,bond,share,s

insurance etc
I think you,d need a good pc with a modern os, with the latest version
of chrome or IE Browser to use ros.

Mrs OBumble

Some lucky people can still do Form 11 manually. I know because I live with one of them, and he's already completed his return.

However once you do certain things, Revenue send you a letter and say that you have to use ROS and submit thru the system. Once you get that letter, your choices are to go thru the rigmarole and register etc - or to use an accountant. Personally I got it letter, so am working my way thru the system now. I found that I was able to get into PAYE-anytime from within ROS.

riclad

This sounds complicated ,theres ros ,and theres paye ,and theres
online paye anytime , some kind of online paye system.
I used to work for a company ,i got a payslip ,
i got a p60 form every year .
that was when life was simple.I Thought ross was a character in friends,
only gamer nerds used pcs ,
a mobile phone was a nokia 3310.
i never bothered claiming any tax allowances for anything.