House needs some work, seller won't budge on price - thoughts?

Floodzie

Hi,

We are buying a house as cash buyers (family loan) so don't need to deal with banks.

The house we are Sale Agreed on is old but has been done up to a high spec recently. The renovations were all done to a good standard.

Our survey has highlighted some areas that should be addressed, and the surveyor has given us a rough quote of 20k. These mostly concern new regulations etc that came in just after the renovations were finished, but mainly it is a LARGE number of quite minor issues. The house is structurally fine, lived in recently, and there are no immediate concerns.

The problem is that the seller won't budge on price. At all. We need to buy and they are happy to wait until the right offer comes along.

We plan on paying for the work ourselves over the next few years, to prevent more serious issues and so we have the option to sell to a mortgaged purchaser in future (banks are very strict about surveys).

There are a large number of cash buyers around at the minute, and houses in that area are getting snapped up.

Has anyone been through this? It's quite stressful. We are going ahead with the sale, aware that the buyer should beware.

I have heard of someone losing out on a sale because they wanted work done or the price reduced before they would buy.

It's not a buyer's market right now, so is this the new normal?

seamus

Is the €20k of work to bring the house up to current regs or to actually address real issues?

There's a big difference. It would cost me the guts of €100k to bring my house up to current regs, but I'm not going to. It's unnecessary.

The house is structurally fine, recently renovated. Is there any work that actually needs to be done?

LeinsterDub

Floodzie wrote: »

It's not a buyer's market right now, so is this the new normal?

Have you not heard of the massive housing shortage? While it's not quite a sellers market yet , it's most certainly not a buyer market anymore

How much are you paying for the house ? 20,000 off 100,000 is a big deal not so much off a 1,000,000 house

Floodzie

seamus wrote: »

The house is structurally fine, recently renovated. Is there any work that actually needs to be done?

There's nothing that we want done in terms of how we would use the house. The bedroom windows need to be changed because there are fire regs now that say the bottom half needs to open, currently they open from the top and I can see the issue of having to climb over a pane of glass if trying to get out. Also, the attic conversion can't be used as a bedroom until we install a fire door. These will be one of the first things we change.

There are some tiles that need replacing too, and a long list of minor issues. The house is structurally and functionally fine (we don't even need the attic conversion for the time being).

sbsquarepants

What's your question?
You want them to drop the price, they've said no. You now need to decide if you're willing to pay the higher price or walk away, simple as.

Floodzie

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Have you not heard of the massive housing shortage? While it's not quite a sellers market yet , it's most certainly not a buyer market anymore

How much are you paying for the house ? 20,000 off 100,000 is a big deal not so much off a 1,000,000 house

500k. Yes, 20k not a lot of money in comparison, but we will be completely broke after we buy the place. We'll only be able to afford a cheap couch and bed. That's it! :-)

Floodzie

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What's your question?
You want them to drop the price, they've said no. You now need to decide if you're willing to pay the higher price or walk away, simple as.

We've been looking for a few years, been gazumped once, and outbid about a half-dozen times. Our negotiating position is weak.

Are sellers now refusing to lower prices as a rule?

nhunter100

Floodzie wrote:

We plan on paying for the work ourselves over the next few years, to prevent more serious issues and so we have the option to sell to a mortgaged purchaser in future (banks are very strict about surveys).

Floodzie wrote:

Our survey has highlighted some areas that should be addressed, and the surveyor has given us a rough quote of 20k. These mostly concern new regulations etc that came in just after the renovations were finished, but mainly it is a LARGE number of quite minor issues. The house is structurally fine, lived in recently, and there are no immediate concerns.

Simple answer is you don't buy it someone else will. The seller is confident they'll get their price why should they drop the price. The market is not exactly over supplied at the moment.

Floodzie

nhunter100 wrote: »

Simple answer is you don't buy it someone else will. The seller is confident they'll get their price why should they drop the price. The market is not exactly over supplied at the moment.

You're right. I'm old-school, it used to be that a survey showed how much money you could get off the Sale Agreed price, rather than how much money you'll need to spend after purchase! :-)

intheclouds

I dont really understand what the problem is - the house is not up to current regs - but nothing is except recent builds. And when the regs change, they will be out of date too.

I dont see why you would be spending 20k to rectify things that dont need to be rectified?

The seller is right not to budge, no one expects a house to be up to current regs unless it is a new house.

Floodzie

intheclouds wrote: »

I dont see why you would be spending 20k to rectify things that dont need to be rectified?

It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)

nhunter100

Floodzie wrote:

You're right. I'm old-school, it used to be that a survey showed how much money you could get off the Sale Agreed price, rather than how much money you'll need to spend after purchase! :-)

You've already said the seller is not moving off price. So your options are limited, pay the asking or walk away. Good luck either way.

intheclouds

Floodzie wrote: »

It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)

A few tiles isnt going to cost 20k.

You will still be able to sell in 10 years - why would you think you cant?

LeinsterDub

Floodzie wrote: »

We've been looking for a few years, been gazumped once, and outbid about a half-dozen times. Our negotiating position is weak.

Are sellers now refusing to lower prices as a rule?

Your risking being outbid or gazumped again for the sake of 4% ?

Floodzie

intheclouds wrote: »

A few tiles isnt going to cost 20k.

You will still be able to sell in 10 years - why would you think you cant?

It's not just tiles, there is some insulation needing replacing, a minor issue with plumbing, a roof rafter is weak and should be replaced eventually... the list goes on.

In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.

ThisRegard

Why buy your house with one eye already on selling it?

You haven't highlighted where you're buying, but sellers do drop the price if they want to sell and aren't getting interest in it.

SmartinMartin

Floodzie wrote: »

It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)

Anything you do now will be out of date in 10 years time anyway. Just buy, and update when you go to sell.

Floodzie

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Your risking being outbid or gazumped again for the sake of 4% ?

I think you're right. I just want someone to tell me to buy!! :-)

intheclouds

Floodzie wrote: »

It's not just tiles, there is some insulation needing replacing, a minor issue with plumbing, a roof rafter is weak and should be replaced eventually... the list goes on.

In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.

What? Where did you hear this?

Floodzie

ThisRegard wrote: »

Why buy your house with one eye already on selling it?

You haven't highlighted where you're buying, but sellers do drop the price if they want to sell and aren't getting interest in it.

We don't really want to sell, but it would be nice to know we have the option.

Floodzie

intheclouds wrote: »

What? Where did you hear this?

A work colleague recently bought a house and had to jump through hoops first because of subsidence issues.

ThisRegard

The issues you highlight seem a lot more minor than subsidence, in which the entire structure of the building could be at risk.

Floodzie

ThisRegard wrote: »

You haven't highlighted where you're buying, but sellers do drop the price if they want to sell and aren't getting interest in it.

It's an up and coming part of Dublin, very close to a better area (1 min walk). Another similarly priced house was sale agreed in a couple of months.

Floodzie

ThisRegard wrote: »

The issues you highlight seem a lot more minor than subsidence, in which the entire structure of the building could be at risk.

You're right, they are minor. I suppose if we were to sell we could wait to see what the survey and bank said...

Some issues (like the windows, tiles and fire door) we will get fixed anyway.

ThisRegard

Floodzie wrote: »

It's an up and coming part of South Dublin, very close to a better area (1 min walk). Another similarly priced house was sale agreed in a couple of months.

It was a reference to you asking if sellers are refusing to reduce asking price as a rule. If they get no interest and want to sell, they reduce. If they're getting enough interest at the price they're asking, why would they.

Seth Brundle

Floodzie wrote: »

I think you're right. I just want someone to tell me to buy!! :-)

As you seem to have been poorly advised in terms of the current requirements for the house so let me offer some more advice...

Floodzie wrote: »

500k. Yes, 20k not a lot of money in comparison, but we will be completely broke after we buy the place. We'll only be able to afford a cheap couch and bed. That's it! :-)

Buy it.

Floodzie

kbannon wrote: »

As you seem to have been poorly advised in terms of the current requirements for the house so let me offer some more advice...


Buy it.

Ha - ok! :-)

Penalty

I think you need to understand what the survey is saying.

It costs 20k to bring the house to CURRENT building regs. There is no problem with the house as it met the regulations when it was built. It does not need to be brought up to current regs to sell. It only matters was it built in accordance with the planning permission and regs at the time of completion.

99% of houses sold do not met current regs. No seller is going to reduce their sale price to reflect the cost of upgrading the house to current regs.

Its up to you to decide if you want to upgrade your house.

If you want to change the window that's on you not the seller. If its something you want to do to give you piece of mind afterwards then thats your choice.

Things like the tiles will need to be done as you say to stop leakage but relatively small costs and are you going to lose the house over that.

One_Of_Shanks

We had some minor stuff come back from our surveyor when buying too, a lot of small things. So we asked them for reduction in price but they refused.

Long story short, we've been happily living there for a year now, did all the minor repairs as we went along and no regrets.

I'd go ahead if I was you, if it's the home you want don't lose it over something that can be quite easily sorted.

tommythecat

All of the issues you mentioned are fairly regular ones that a lot of houses have. The banks will lend for any of these issues. Subsidence is a very different structural issue to a firedoor and window replacement or indeed some damp etc. You need to forget about selling in 10 years and worry about now. I certainly wouldn't drop my sales price for essentially comsmetic work

seamus

Floodzie wrote: »

In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.

No, this is not correct.

The bank sends a valuer, not a surveyor. As one valuer put it to me, their job is to make sure that there is in fact a house standing at the given address which can be lived in, and nothing more. They go in, count the rooms, make a few measurements and leave again, 15 minutes work.

They report on the condition of the house with just 3 grades - Good, Fair or Poor. "Poor" means, "abandoned wreck, no roof". "Fair" means, "In need of substantial renovation, barely fit for habitation".

Tbh, the stuff you're talking about is minor stuff, standard work that anyone would have to do on moving in. Nothing sounds like an issue that needs to be correct in the short or medium term.

Letree

I would only lower my price if the surveyor found something actually faulty like a leak or a boiler that wasn't working etc. I would not drop my price to bring a house up to current regs. 90% of houses out there are prob not up to current regs when you consider today's insulation standards etc.

If you are serious about buying try and get something off the 20 if you can, maybe 5k or so.

intheclouds

Floodzie wrote: »

A work colleague recently bought a house and had to jump through hoops first because of subsidence issues.

But thats a structural issue. Anything you mention isnt a structural problem.

riclad

A house built in 1995 is not subject to 2016 building regs.
As long as it built as per building regs in 95.
Things like cracked old window frames may need to be replaced ,cracked tiles replaced
bricks repointed ,wall replastered ,insulation upgraded etc
You can force some one to reduce the price ,go ahead with sale or
look for another house .
IF you want to live in this area ,buy the house.
As you say houses are being snapped up.
Basic repairs don,t go out of date .
Banks get a basic survey to say house is worth say 150k,
if loan is 150k.
they would not really care if theres 10k work to be done on a house .
IF house is structurally sound.
20k may include putting in new pvc windows or adding insulation .
IT sounds like you have lots of small things to fix which will add up to 20k in total.
you can give sellers solicitor copy of survey ,
repairs needed 20k.
ask for 5k off the price .

RAMBLIN FURY

I.M.O
(this is purely guesswork because I don't know the house or what it looks like)

It sounds like your surveyor has put a "spanner in the works" !! is he/she a registered professional or are we talking "bar stool opinions" ??

Once upon a time regulations wouldn't let you install windows that opened from lower transom (for child safety, so they wouldn't be able to fall out)

I can except, out of courtesy, that the seller should make sure the roof is water tight (slates, Tiles, flashing etc) and of sound state.

Dampness should be addresses (if any) and any foundation movement should be addressed (if any).

I.M.O Any issues that both seller and buyer are ware of should be discussed and an agreement made but if a solution cant be found then you should continue your search for a home that you will feel confident about purchasing.

Irrelevant of qualifications and professional titles people are given, it doesn't mean they are good at their job !! and they know "everything".

Example, Ireland's slogan within the industry "Concrete built is better built" !!! errr No its not, that is about 30 years behind the rest of Europe!! or for commercial property.

Even property purchasing in Ireland is a bit backward with the rest of Europe on their policy's, a non existent protection for the potential purchaser/buyer!!

So in reality any purchase of a residential property is a gamble.

Finally If you really really love the property and can see yourself living there and enjoying a comfy home BUY IT !!, your only here once! and you ain't gonna take it with you..

Floodzie

RAMBLIN FURY wrote: »

I.M.O
(this is purely guesswork because I don't know the house or what it looks like)

It sounds like your surveyor has put a "spanner in the works" !! is he/she a registered professional or are we talking "bar stool opinions" ??

Once upon a time regulations wouldn't let you install windows that opened from lower transom (for child safety, so they wouldn't be able to fall out)

I can except, out of courtesy, that the seller should make sure the roof is water tight (slates, Tiles, flashing etc) and of sound state.

Dampness should be addresses (if any) and any foundation movement should be addressed (if any).

I.M.O Any issues that both seller and buyer are ware of should be discussed and an agreement made but if a solution cant be found then you should continue your search for a home that you will feel confident about purchasing.

Irrelevant of qualifications and professional titles people are given, it doesn't mean they are good at their job !! and they know "everything".

Example, Ireland's slogan within the industry "Concrete built is better built" !!! errr No its not, that is about 30 years behind the rest of Europe!! or for commercial property.

Even property purchasing in Ireland is a bit backward with the rest of Europe on their policy's, a non existent protection for the potential purchaser/buyer!!

So in reality any purchase of a residential property is a gamble.

Finally If you really really love the property and can see yourself living there and enjoying a comfy home BUY IT !!, your only here once! and you ain't gonna take it with you..

I've used the surveyor before, he's pretty good. Although he did recommend I get a separate opinion on drainage and the roof. The roof was renovated recently (attic room) and seems in good nick. Might take his advice on getting a roof survey, but to be honest, it still probably wouldn't stop us buying.

Floodzie

Floodzie wrote: »

It's an up and coming part of South Dublin, very close to a better area (1 min walk). Another similarly priced house was sale agreed in a couple of months.

Wow, half a million for an up and coming area!

Floodzie

bubblypop wrote: »

Wow, half a million for an up and coming area!

Places just up the road are another 100k again... Amazing the difference a postal code makes!

To be fair, the upgrading of the house is outstanding - it really has the wow factor. A place like that over on the Southside - Ranelagh or Rathmines - would be 850k plus.

riclad

IT sounds like he got a full survey from a professional.
it came back with various problems ,repairs needed will cost 20k.
It,s not a gamble to buy a house, in that you can get a full survey before you buy
to point out repairs needed .
If you buy house ,you buy it as is ,then its up to you to carry out repairs .
Its a sellers market now, if you don,t buy it someone else will .
my friend bought house, he spent around 3k on insulation ,replaced all the
windows with pvc double glazed glass.put insulation in attic.
He knew all the work that would be needed before he bought the house .
Checking all roof tiles is important ,a tiny hole,crack, can cause
a large leak into the attic.

LeinsterDub

Floodzie wrote: »

Places just up the road are another 100k again... Amazing the difference a postal code makes!

To be fair, the upgrading of the house is outstanding - it really has the wow factor. A place like that in Ranelagh or Rathmines would be 850k plus.

Then why are you not like

Floodzie

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Then why are you not like

Haha - fair enough!

intheclouds

My interest is piqued - would you pm me the house advertisement (I wont try to buy it I promise!!)

Floodzie

Sorry - maybe in a couple of weeks once it's all done and dusted!

RAMBLIN FURY

With drainage, its a simple procedure, have a camera inspection done, Dynorod or similar.
If the attic has been renovated or "done up" but not to a living standard then I.M.O that's something you'll have to complete (bit like buying a car "sold as seen"). As for the roof, etc, I do agree it should be of sound state but if the cost is small compared to you loosing out on the purchase I wouldn't worry to much. In other words its not compulsory for the seller to do anything, the seller wants to sell "as is" and it sounds like they are not to budge or bothered who buys it as long as someone does.

Ahhhh Feck it !! go on and buy it and have yourself a love Christmas by the fire..

K.Flyer

Floodzie wrote: »

500k. Yes, 20k not a lot of money in comparison, but we will be completely broke after we buy the place. We'll only be able to afford a cheap couch and bed. That's it! :-)

If the above is correct and some of the issues require more immediate attention, how will you be able to fund the repairs yourself after paying the asking price.
Don't let your heart rule your head. Its very easy for people here to say "buy it" when it has nothing to do with them.
There is a big difference between "must be repaired / updated", and something that is still in good condition and built to the regs of the day but would now be an outdated practice.
Look at the list with the surveyor and work out the difference between the two. Then try to negotiate on the "must be repaired / updated " list. If there is still no move from the seller then you need to ask yourself can you afford the house, all the extra work and the ongoing maintenance that goes with it.
Best of luck.

LeinsterDub

K.Flyer wrote: »

If the above is correct and some of the issues require more immediate attention, how will you be able to fund the repairs yourself after paying the asking price.

They are cash buyers. Take out a small loan.

RAMBLIN FURY

Good Morning, Yes indeed I totally agree with you just like you obviously agree with me!! Have a lovely weekend !!

Gumbo

Floodzie wrote: »

It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)

In 10 years time the house will be out of date again. Will you then drop the price to meet the current regs at that time?

Thoie

Floodzie wrote: »

There's nothing that we want done in terms of how we would use the house. The bedroom windows need to be changed because there are fire regs now that say the bottom half needs to open, currently they open from the top and I can see the issue of having to climb over a pane of glass if trying to get out. Also, the attic conversion can't be used as a bedroom until we install a fire door. These will be one of the first things we change.

There are some tiles that need replacing too, and a long list of minor issues. The house is structurally and functionally fine (we don't even need the attic conversion for the time being).

Personally, I'd buy it. In the short term I'd buy a window hammer (or a few of them) if I was concerned about fire safety.

I'd consider whether I need to use the attic conversion as a bedroom immediately or if that could wait a year or so.

If I'm worried about cracked tiles in a shower that might leak, skim some silicon sealant/glue/clear nail varnish over them as a short term stop until you can afford to replace the tiles.

While there may be €20k of work required, it doesn't sound like any of it needs to be done the day you move in. If you're looking at a 10 year spread (or longer), you can do bits at a time over the years as you can afford them. It will be up to you to prioritise. For example if the windows are good other than your concern about escaping in case of fire, I'd probably leave that till last.

RAMBLIN FURY

@Thoie ...... Now Your Talking !!

jlm29

You're cash buyers. I assume you have some sort of an income to get to the point of buying a half a million euro house for cash. You're not completely broke. You don't have to land out a substantial sum every month on a mortgage/rent, and presumably you're good at saving, so it won't take you very long to have the cost of those renovations in the bank.