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The biased Media vs Trump!

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Considering that I know that half of what you say is untrue, you'll have to forgive me for asking you to back it all up with reputable links.

    Does supporting Donald Trump automatically come with a lie erector?
    I don’t recall ever engaging you before. This appears to be little more than a personal attack, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt as long as you provide examples that HAVE lead you to that conclusion in the past.

    Satisfying that I would be happy to provide you what you are requesting. Are you looking for examples of the media saying it’s sexist to raise questions about Hillary Clinton’s health? Or examples of the media’s attacks on Sarah Palin, Ben Carson, Clarence Thomas, or John McCain? Or that Google is surppressing searches? Though I do find it odd that you are requesting things that have been common knowledge. It's kinda like asking me to back up the statement that water is wet..


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,153 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Amerika wrote: »
    I don’t recall ever engaging you before. This appears to be little more than a personal attack, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt as long as you provide examples that HAVE lead you to that conclusion in the past.

    Satisfying that I would be happy to provide you what you are requesting. Are you looking for examples of the media saying it’s sexist to raise questions about Hillary Clinton’s health? Or examples of the media’s attacks on Sarah Palin, Ben Carson, Clarence Thomas, or John McCain? Or that Google is surppressing searches? Though I do find it odd that you are requesting things that have been common knowledge. It's kinda like asking me to back up the statement that water is wet..

    You're expected to back up your claims here. You began with there being 4 times as many pro-Democrat journalists as those of a pro-Republican bent. You can start there.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,350 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Oh come on. Outside of whackjob places like Infowars and Breitbart, no-one other than people of the_donald is taking this Clinton health smear campaign seriously.

    I'd be interested in seeing some reputable links backing up these health claims too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Why did a post of mine disappear?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,153 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Why did a post of mine disappear?

    It was below standard so I erased it. Please take further enquiries to PM.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    You're expected to back up your claims here. You began with there being 4 times as many pro-Democrat journalists as those of a pro-Republican bent. You can start there.
    Fair enough.

    Here you go. I trust the study will suffice.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/

    (Will you also require Dibbler to back up his attack on me, or are some things just a given? :p)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    To be fair with regards to journalists, 28.1% do identify as Democrat vs. 7.1% as Republican.

    What is interesting here is how much ground the Republicans have lost on that front over the last 40-odd years, and it is telling why so many more journalists identify as Democrat - journalists tend to have college educations.

    Screen-Shot-2014-05-06-at-11.42.26-AM.png&w=1484

    For decades, ever since Nixon or even Goldwater, Republicans have looked to populism, politics of fear, and corralling the anger of the masses against whatever is perceived to be 'the enemy' - be that black people, the Communists, Arabs/Muslims, and of course the Democrats. Always the Democrats. This has continued on in a seemingly never ending game of one up manship that has seen the claims become more and more bizarre and ridiculous to the extent that many of their followers literally believe Obama is both a Muslim and an athiest, a fascist and a communist, and is a secret agent sent from Kenya to take down the USA. It is also why a lot of Republicans believe Hillary Clinton is literally Lucifer. As in not, 'as bad as' Lucifer or 'the personification of all that is wrong in the world/USA'. No. Literally Lucifer.

    As the Republicans have gone further and further down this road, leading now to a situation that is absolutely beyond satire or farce (I'm not saying it to be glib, if you wrote this for a comedy movie a decade ago it would have been panned for being too dumb, too slapstick, and too unrealistic), they continue to push the college educated crowd away. All you have to do it look at trends over the last few decades, and the trickle-down effect (yes, pun intended :D) is showing too - all the way to those whose education is 'high school or less'.

    4-22-2016_02.png

    Added into that, you have the 'mixed' or 'independent' crowds. I do not know myself, but would imagine that quite a high number of these are right leaning or right wing, as elements like the Tea Party or Libertarians very often refuse to identify as Republicans, either because they don't feel ideologically close enough (though closer than they are to the Democrats) or to pretend to be objective on issues like disputes between the Republicans and Democrats, where having 'IND' beside your name can give you more clout on it's own.

    At the end of the day though, none of this is very relevant. A journalist's job is to be objective and leave their own prejudices at the door, which the evidence shows most do. You do get people at the likes of FOX News or Breitbart on one end of the spectrum and the likes of Daily KOS on the other, but it has been shown to Amerika over and over that there is no giant conspiracy. For NYT's lean to the left, NBC has a lean to the right that the right wingers try desperately to ignore and the same is true of so many publications. He even claimed to have not seen it, despite the fact he responded to it when I posted it weeks back in the election thread. This is typical of Republican voters lately, as addressing the facts does not help their cause - journalists jobs are to address these facts, so they are clearly aware of that.

    F1.large.jpg

    Fact is, there is no issue here as news journalists jobs require them to be impartial and the evidence shows them to be so. That they in their personal lives identify more strongly as Democratic is the fault of nobody's but the Republican party - they got a huge boost through the Southern Strategy that saw them utterly dominate politics in the US for quite a while (which is mainly why they hate the Clintons so much, for taking that away). They got to reap the rewards of race baiting, playing to people's fears, politics of hate and offering easy answers that don't address the issues during those years... and now they get to reap them more than they ever would have wanted.

    I think the last 4 years have really seen it hit breaking point now; they've created a Frankenstein within a voter base (not just Trump, the Tea Party too and some might argue the Libertarians though they are more of a sister party of sorts in my opinion). The position they've found themselves in now is incredibly difficult - remain as one dysfunctional basket case, able to pander to a wider range at state level but with very slim hopes of winning any Presidential elections, or disband into 3 parties which makes little sense as the Democrats would walk all over any of those three in isolation. Their genuine best bet on this front would be the Bernie Sanders supporters looking to do likewise within the Democrats. Outside of that the only real possible answer I can see for them is to hit a complete reset button - Paul Ryan seems a decent figurehead to do so, but how they successfully do so is a completely other matter filled with it's own difficulties.

    TL;DR... Democrats dominate college educated voters. Journalists tend to have college educations. Republicans mock these people as 'elitists' and cannot expect their support. However, journalists jobs involve being objective and with exceptions to the left and to the right, this is the case. It is that objectivity coupled with their educations that likely causes them to identify with the Democrats more. And the Republicans have nobody but themselves to blame for their sneering at education for so long, especially in the last 10-15 years which has by no coincidence seen the number of journalists identifying with them plummet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Amerika wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    Here you go. I trust the study will suffice.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/

    (Will you also require Dibbler to back up his attack on me, or are some things just a given? :p)

    That's says how journalists identify politically the biggest group is independent/other who amount to about 65%. Journalist who identify with the big two parties more are democrats than republican. That study does not back to the claim in the thread. If anything it shows a 2-1 independent bias.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Amerika wrote: »
    now we find out Google is censoring stories and fixing search results about Clinton’s health.
    I would like to point out to the mods that this has been thoroughly debunked in this thread already, as recently as yesterday, and with the large images relating to this topic throughout the thread that caused irritation to the mods, there is no 'I didn't see it' excuse.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    That's says how journalists identify politically the biggest group is independent/other who amount to about 65%. Journalist who identify with the big two parties more are democrats than republican. That study does not back to the claim in the thread. If anything it shows a 2-1 independent bias.
    I didn't say anything about independents. I stated in the US, Democrat journalists outnumber Republicans 4 to 1. Please don't try to twist my words. The study verifies that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Amerika wrote: »
    I didn't say anything about independents. I stated in the US, Democrat journalists outnumber Republicans 4 to 1. Please don't try to twist my words. The study verifies that.

    Did I say other wise! Stop twisting my words am I incorrect do independents make up 50%. Did I say the claim that Democrates largely out numbers republicans was incorrect? Deflection again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Oh come on. Outside of whackjob places like Infowars and Breitbart, no-one other than people of the_donald is taking this Clinton health smear campaign seriously.

    I'd be interested in seeing some reputable links backing up these health claims too.

    You got it. But does it make any difference that I'm correct?

    That was then...
    http://www.usnews.com/news/campaign-2008/articles/2008/05/09/mccains-age-and-past-health-problems-could-be-an-issue-in-the-presidential-race

    This is now...
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/292352-cnn-analyst-questions-about-clintons-health-sexist

    Or should CNN and US News and World Report now be considered 'whackjob places?'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Another example of media bias against trump they never reported him being a brave solider. http://www.redstate.com/diary/Anteater/2016/02/17/trumps-vulgar-admission-avoiding-stds-women-personal-vietnam/

    Very brave Donal I suppose we know know he never caught anything which in the 80's in New York is amazing, he was married then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Amerika wrote: »
    I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

    Your view of Clintons current health is incorrect. Her doctor has said so. It's unsurprising the few minor problems in her 68 years. It's that's simple. But at least trump survived the STI's in the 80's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Your view of Clintons current health is incorrect. Her doctor has said so. It's unsurprising the few minor problems in her 68 years. It's that's simple. But at least trump survived the STI's in the 80's.

    I still don't understand as everything I've noted about Hillary's health are public knowledge and aren't minor problems. But the point I was making was the mainstream have seemed to take the stance, from numerous articles, that questioning her health is somehow sexist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,769 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Amerika wrote: »
    I don’t recall ever engaging you before. This appears to be little more than a personal attack, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt as long as you provide examples that HAVE lead you to that conclusion in the past.

    Satisfying that I would be happy to provide you what you are requesting. Are you looking for examples of the media saying it’s sexist to raise questions about Hillary Clinton’s health? Or examples of the media’s attacks on Sarah Palin, Ben Carson, Clarence Thomas, or John McCain? Or that Google is surppressing searches? Though I do find it odd that you are requesting things that have been common knowledge. It's kinda like asking me to back up the statement that water is wet..
    At least half of what you said in that post was false. The Google thing has been done to death and is actually a policy of Google's not to autocomplete with derogatory statements a search of any named person.

    The second thing was the statement about Hillary Clinton's 'serious' health' issues. Anything that I've seen coming from the Trump camp and assorted followers has been doctored videos and over-exaggerated minor ailments. Like her cough. :rolleyes:

    Others have responded to the remaining claims in your post.

    Generally I find that what people refer to as 'common knowledge' is usually something that's been made up and broadcast as fact. That's why I asked for back up. Apart from the demonstrably false statements I've already alluded to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Amerika wrote: »
    I still don't understand as everything I've noted about Hillary's health are public knowledge and aren't minor problems. But the point I was making was the mainstream have seemed to take the stance, from numerous articles, that questioning her health is somehow sexist.

    Did the article I post say that. I don't speak for all media, you can assume I usually only quote from articles I agree with and support.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    You got it. But does it make any difference that I'm correct?

    That was then...
    http://www.usnews.com/news/campaign-2008/articles/2008/05/09/mccains-age-and-past-health-problems-could-be-an-issue-in-the-presidential-race

    This is now...
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/292352-cnn-analyst-questions-about-clintons-health-sexist

    Or should CNN and US News and World Report now be considered 'whackjob places?'

    It's worth pointing out that neither make any claim of health concerns regarding Hillary Clinton, unlike other (actual) whackjob places.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    alastair wrote: »
    It's worth pointing out that neither make any claim of health concerns regarding Hillary Clinton, unlike other (actual) whackjob places.

    Of course not. you've made my point... that if you bring up any health concerns regarding Hillary then you're being sexist.

    From the piece...
    New CNN political analyst Kirsten Powers says questioning Hillary Clinton's health has “an element of sexism to it.”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Amerika wrote: »
    Of course not. you've made my point... that if you bring up any health concerns regarding Hillary then you're being sexist.

    From the piece...
    New CNN political analyst Kirsten Powers says questioning Hillary Clinton's health has “an element of sexism to it.”
    Just to point out that this has nothing to do with Amerika's initial claim.

    This is what Super Furry replied to:
    Amerika wrote: »
    It’s public knowledge that Hillary Clinton suffers from a number of serious health issues that could adversely impede her performing the duties of president, Hypothyroidism, blood thinners to prevent blood clots, and Bill said “required six months of very serious work” to recover after a fainting spell. And that's just what is public knowledge.
    Oh come on. Outside of whackjob places like Infowars and Breitbart, no-one other than people of the_donald is taking this Clinton health smear campaign seriously.

    I'd be interested in seeing some reputable links backing up these health claims too.

    So how is this anything but Amerika refusing to back up his own claims? How does this 'make his point' like he claims? Are we all OK to make outlandish claims, and then when questioned on them, answer something else entirely?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Just to point out that this has nothing to do with Amerika's initial claim.

    This is what Super Furry replied to:



    So how is this anything but Amerika refusing to back up his own claims? How does this 'make his point' like he claims? Are we all OK to make outlandish claims, and then when questioned on them, answer something else entirely?

    They never do. I got into trouble for pointing out that exact fact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mod:

    Some guidance:
    Considering that I know that half of what you say is untrue, you'll have to forgive me for asking you to back it all up with reputable links.

    Does supporting Donald Trump automatically come with a lie erector?

    Above is below standard, you are basically insinuating all Trump supporters are liars. This is supposed to be a civilised discussion site and that's impossible if people are going to call their opponents liars.
    Amerika wrote: »
    I don’t recall ever engaging you before. This appears to be little more than a personal attack, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt as long as you provide examples that HAVE lead you to that conclusion in the past.

    If you think it's a personal attack, report it and do not reply in kind. Mods don't care who started it as it isn't the playground here.
    Satisfying that I would be happy to provide you what you are requesting. Are you looking for examples of the media saying it’s sexist to raise questions about Hillary Clinton’s health? Or examples of the media’s attacks on Sarah Palin, Ben Carson, Clarence Thomas, or John McCain? Or that Google is surppressing searches? Though I do find it odd that you are requesting things that have been common knowledge.

    Just provide the links requested.
    Amerika wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    Here you go. I trust the study will suffice.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/

    (Will you also require Dibbler to back up his attack on me, or are some things just a given? )

    Less of the back seat moderation thanks.
    Billy86 wrote: »
    Just to point out that this has nothing to do with Amerika's initial claim.

    This is what Super Furry replied to:



    So how is this anything but Amerika refusing to back up his own claims? How does this 'make his point' like he claims? Are we all OK to make outlandish claims, and then when questioned on them, answer something else entirely?

    Just point out the article doesn't back up the claims. The rest is verging on back seat moderation.
    They never do. I got into trouble for pointing out that exact fact.

    Again, below the standard.

    So 2 mod warnings, below standard posts deleted and now examples provided of what doesn't help the mods do our job. We've spent enough time here so bans will be next.

    Do not reply questioning moderation on this thread. Pm one of the mods. Thank you.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Have y’all taken notice to our lovely media lately… Hillary’s physical health is off limits and Trump’s mental health is worthy of open debate?

    Examples…
    http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/media-censors-hillary-health-concerns/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV2PKytigso


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Amerika wrote: »
    Have y all taken notice to our lovely media lately Hillary s physical health is off limits and Trump s mental health is worthy of open debate?]

    Well to be fair the media have had a,field day with clintons health report, there's just not that much to take issue with is there?

    Meanwhile trump is exhibiting textbook symptoms of narcissism so it seems right that there should be speculation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    A couple of months back I was rooting for Trump as I felt he would shake things up. But the more I read about Trump, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that he's a complete and utter chancer. IMHO there is something seriously wrong with the political system when these are the 2 candidates voters have to choose between, in a country the size of the US.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    A couple of months back I was rooting for Trump as I felt he would shake things up. But the more I read about Trump, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that he's a complete and utter chancer. IMHO there is something seriously wrong with the political system when these are the 2 candidates voters have to choose between, in a country the size of the US.
    I’m curious. What is it about his policies that makes you consider him a chancer? Or is it something other than his goals as President? Build a wall? The building of a wall on the southern border is already a law. Deport illegal aliens? Our current laws state that is the proper course of action. Lower taxes? This has been every Republican's goals for years. Better trade deals? Every American wants that, and the same goes for growing the economy, more jobs and especially for blacks, more manufacturing, better education, better pay, better vetting or legal immigrants, and bringing businesses back to the US that have left for better corporate tax rates, lower wages, and more favorable government regulations. When it comes down to the actual things he hopes to achieve, I just don’t see all the hysteria here and what we are being spoon fed by a biased media, as justified.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Amerika wrote: »
    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    A couple of months back I was rooting for Trump as I felt he would shake things up. But the more I read about Trump, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that he's a complete and utter chancer. IMHO there is something seriously wrong with the political system when these are the 2 candidates voters have to choose between, in a country the size of the US.
    I m curious. What is it about his policies that makes you consider him a chancer? Or is it something other than his goals as President? .

    His economic policy's are designed to enrich himself and his friends.

    The wall is nonsense, the Muslim ban is lunatic. Ditching our nato allies in favour of Russia is insane.

    Additionally he's a pathological liar, a bigot, a misogynist, and is possibly suffering from a mental condition.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    His economic policy's are designed to enrich himself and his friends.

    The wall is nonsense, the Muslim ban is lunatic. Ditching our nato allies in favour of Russia is insane.

    Additionally he's a pathological liar, a bigot, a misogynist, and is possibly suffering from a mental condition.

    The Wall is no different to building the Hoover Dam or America's highway system which promotes gas guzzling cars over a public transport system. All he has said about Islam comes from his personal experience with dealings he had we them when he was over in Saudi Arabia.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,769 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Wall is no different to building the Hoover Dam or America's highway system which promotes gas guzzling cars over a public transport system. All he has said about Islam comes from his personal experience with dealings he had we them when he was over in Saudi Arabia.
    It's not even in the same galaxy as building dams or a road network. The only thing they may have in common is the cost.

    What's nuts about the border wall is that it has to be built along the border. There's no capability to move it if the terrain is unsuitable or impractical. The current border fence which is erected along key stretches of the border couldn't actually be built in certain sections and had to be moved to other locations. One such move has an entire golf course on the 'Mexico' side of the fence. A wall would be ten times harder to site than a fence.

    So Mexicans can walk onto the golf course and be in the USA whilst still being across the fence. Completely nuts. The residents in those areas think it's hilarious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    It's not even in the same galaxy as building dams or a road network. The only thing they may have in common is the cost.

    What's nuts about the border wall is that it has to be built along the border. There's no capability to move it if the terrain is unsuitable or impractical. The current border fence which is erected along key stretches of the border couldn't actually be built in certain sections and had to be moved to other locations. One such move has an entire golf course on the 'Mexico' side of the fence. A wall would be ten times harder to site than a fence.

    So Mexicans can walk onto the golf course and be in the USA whilst still being across the fence. Completely nuts. The residents in those areas think it's hilarious.

    Their are already fences and bordering beside Mexico, what is needed it to put all these fences together. I'd say the ranchers and landowners would agree to allowing their property to be used for a Federal fence or border between Mexico & America. The big problem is the desert crossings.

    Lets not try to compare the Mexican immigrations to previous immigrant to America. This is a Natural border without any ability to control the flow of people back and forte. We do see examples of fences being put up in other parts of the world.

    Look what is really needed is to control the flow of human trafficking otherwise the Coyotes will make use of the desert and obey no laws be they Mexican or American. At the moment the immigration system in that part of the Continent is crazy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Wall is no different to building the Hoover Dam or America's highway system which promotes gas guzzling cars over a public transport system.

    What a very odd way to describe it.

    Building a wall to cut yourself off from your neighbours is nothing like building a dam or a highway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    What a very odd way to describe it.

    Building a wall to cut yourself off from your neighbours is nothing like building a dam or a highway.

    In a way it is. They all involve public money to provide it and they provide a service to the community. That's why traditionally countries in the Balkans had border agencies. Northern Ireland had a border with the Republic of Ireland. North & South Korea has a border. Palestine & Israel has a border. The Soviet Union, present day Russia has assortment of borders with different powers.

    Their is nothing abnormal with having a border per se.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,769 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Their are already fences and bordering beside Mexico, what is needed it to put all these fences together. I'd say the ranchers and landowners would agree to allowing their property to be used for a Federal fence or border between Mexico & America. The big problem is the desert crossings.

    Lets not try to compare the Mexican immigrations to previous immigrant to America. This is a Natural border without any ability to control the flow of people back and forte. We do see examples of fences being put up in other parts of the world.

    Look what is really needed is to control the flow of human trafficking otherwise the Coyotes will make use of the desert and obey no laws be they Mexican or American. At the moment the immigration system in that part of the Continent is crazy.
    I know you appear to be answering me, but it doesn't look like you read my post at all. :confused:

    The cost of creating a wall the size that Trump envisages it, would be enormous. But the main problem would be actually building it. A lot of the border is river, and walls don't work well in the middle of rivers. You can't build on river banks either because of subsidence. So in those locations, the wall would need to be built well into US territory, ceding vast areas to Mexico by default.

    But the main issue is that the majority of illegal immigrants come across through normal channels and outstay their visas. A wall would do the square root of feck all to stop that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Their is nothing abnormal with having a border per se.

    We're talking about the delusion of thinking the US can build a physical wall along the border with mexico.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    We're talking about the delusion of thinking the US can build a physical wall along the border with mexico.

    It is perfectly possible. It would require Mexican forces stationed on their side of their border. A Mexican presence all around the Navajo Desert and near Tijuana. The US could with the expertise of the corp of engineers have border guards from Texas to California. Congress would have to decide if they want to use Federal subsidies or the private sector. State & local authorities could also get involved. Certain sections might not need a border since they might be impassible for entry into the US. Their could be checkpoints that allow citizens to freely travel back and forte on a number of different routes.

    The point is that it would be a massive investment to create a border force situated beside Mexico.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,769 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    It is perfectly possible. It would require Mexican forces stationed on their side of their border. A Mexican presence all around the Navajo Desert and near Tijuana. The US could with the expertise of the corp of engineers have border guards from Texas to California. Congress would have to decide if they want to use Federal subsidies or the private sector. State & local authorities could also get involved. Certain sections might not need a border since they might be impassible for entry into the US. Their could be checkpoints that allow citizens to freely travel back and forte on a number of different routes.

    The point is that it would be a massive investment to create a border force situated beside Mexico.
    You haven't addressed the practical issues of trying to build a wall. You're just talking about forces.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Certain sections might not need a border since they might be impassible for entry into the US. Their could be checkpoints that allow citizens to freely travel back and forte on a number of different routes.

    Riiiight. Sure. I understand now. It all sounds very practical...

    So we wouldn't need a border on the bits that are impassable for entry huh?

    Checkpoints on a number of routes sounds like a great idea. How convienient for the citizens. I can see you have this well thought out.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    You haven't addressed the practical issues of trying to build a wall. You're just talking about forces.

    The argument being put is that it is outrageous. Clearly that is not true. Steps could easily be made to construct a border wall. Texas & California being ideal locations. The amount of devotion the US army is used to combat other threats could be redirected to set up line of fencing covering the state Texas from the Gulf of Mexico to the Rio Grande.

    Their appears to be a lot leakage in terms of human trafficking from America to Mexico of a violent nature. Two military forces on either side of the border could halt the flow of weapons, drugs & crime to America. The entire region is so porous at this point it hinders the growth of good relations between the two sides.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Riiiight. Sure. I understand now. It all sounds very practical...

    So we wouldn't need a border on the bits that are impassable for entry huh?

    Checkpoints on a number of routes sounds like a great idea. How convienient for the citizens. I can see you have this well thought out.

    If you had passports you would be fine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    If you had passports you would be fine.

    Right. There you go.

    So your idea would be to have check points at certain openings in the wall where citizens with passports could pass back and forth?

    It's quite the plan isn't it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    If you had passports you would be fine.

    Interesting, so any person presenting at the border checkpoint will be allowed entry to either country?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Interesting, so any person presenting at the border checkpoint will be allowed entry to either country?

    Once they have the right papers. It is a situation that applies in say Korea with the DMZ. Egypt & Israel have similar arrangements.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Once they have the right papers. It is a situation that applies in say Korea with the DMZ. Egypt & Israel have similar arrangements.

    So it would be like in Korea?

    Citizens would have to get these "passports" and then they'd just go back and forth whenever?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Once they have the right papers. It is a situation that applies in say Korea with the DMZ. Egypt & Israel have similar arrangements.

    How much of illegal immigration into USA involves people without necessary papers i.e. Passport and either Visa or ESTA? Of the 11,000,000 illegals currently estimated in USA how many entered with no valid papers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,769 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The argument being put is that it is outrageous. Clearly that is not true. Steps could easily be made to construct a border wall. Texas & California being ideal locations. The amount of devotion the US army is used to combat other threats could be redirected to set up line of fencing covering the state Texas from the Gulf of Mexico to the Rio Grande.

    Their appears to be a lot leakage in terms of human trafficking from America to Mexico of a violent nature. Two military forces on either side of the border could halt the flow of weapons, drugs & crime to America. The entire region is so porous at this point it hinders the growth of good relations between the two sides.
    I think you should actually read what Trump is proposing because you certainly don't seem to have the first clue.

    I don't really blame you tbh, Trump isn't that sure about it either. He's so unsure of it, all he'll commit to on his own website is getting Mexico to pay for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    I think you should actually read what Trump is proposing because you certainly don't seem to have the first clue.

    I don't really blame you tbh, Trump isn't that sure about it either. He's so unsure of it, all he'll commit to on his own website is getting Mexico to pay for it.

    That is what trump does. Comes up with an idea then is so vague those who follow fill in the blanks themselves. Get 100 trump supporters in a room a number will say the wall is a metaphor others will say it is built one way and will solve all illegal immigration others will say it will be built a totally different way but all 100 will think it's a great idea that will cost they have no idea to solve a problem they have no idea of the size.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    I think you should actually read what Trump is proposing because you certainly don't seem to have the first clue.

    I don't really blame you tbh, Trump isn't that sure about it either. He's so unsure of it, all he'll commit to on his own website is getting Mexico to pay for it.

    Everyone realizes the situation cannot remain as is. You seem to believe allowing 11 million Mexicans freely arrive into the US causes no issues in society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,769 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Everyone realizes the situation cannot remain as is. You seem to believe allowing 11 million Mexicans freely arrive into the US causes no issues in society.
    Eleven million Mexicans? I really think you should check that figure.

    I really, really do. :D


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