Interview with strange business..is this legal?

cinnamony

Hi,

I went to an interview today for a position within my field however it turned out to be quite the opposite of what I expected.
It turns out that the position is not only not what was advertised but I fear it may be illegal!
Basically, they want someone to research certain groups of the population and gather info about people who meet their criteria. The types of info they are looking for are names, addresses, phone numbers etc... you basically create a spreadsheet with these details on tons of people and then they sell this to their clients.

I'm very concerned about this as I have never heard of anyone working in such a position?? Is this even legal??

(P.S. I hope this is the right forum so sorry if it isn't!!)

moc moc a moc

Sounds dodgy as hell. You might notify the Data Protection Commissioner

cinnamony

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Sounds dodgy as hell. You might notify the Data Protection Commissioner

Hey thank you so much for this, yeh totally I am so concerned!
Sorry to ask but do you think i should contact them through the information e-mail or make a complaint?
Sorry to bother you I have never had to do anything like this.

bonyn

Don't report it.

Just walk away and enjoy your life.

cinnamony

bonyn wrote: »

Don't report it.

Just walk away and enjoy your life.

Hey sorry to ask but why do you think this? Personally I feel it would be an unethical action considering that from my understanding the clients use this info to get money from those people.

bonyn

You've no obligation to the data protection people so ethics don't come into it.

At worst you'll piss off the wrong people and it could impact negatively on you or your career.

livedadream

cinnamony wrote: »

Hi,

I went to an interview today for a position within my field however it turned out to be quite the opposite of what I expected.
It turns out that the position is not only not what was advertised but I fear it may be illegal!
Basically, they want someone to research certain groups of the population and gather info about people who meet their criteria. The types of info they are looking for are names, addresses, phone numbers etc... you basically create a spreadsheet with these details on tons of people and then they sell this to their clients.

it depends lets say its a business and they sell to other business and the role is to create and maintain a database with the information of the businesses you want to sell to , as long as the information is publicly available, ie: on a chamber website of business website its fine.

ie a software company creating a data base of companies that could/would use their software and the details of the head of IT.

not sure about selling it on though...

if its hunting down these people are getting their personal data its shady.

cinnamony

bonyn wrote: »

You've no obligation to the data protection people so ethics don't come into it.

At worst you'll piss off the wrong people and it could impact negatively on you or your career.

You make a valid point, what makes me feel bad is that they are using information belonging to citizens not other businesses or whatever and selling it onto other companies. Which puts me in a sensitive position

livedadream wrote: »

it depends lets say its a business and they sell to other business and the role is to create and maintain a database with the information of the businesses you want to sell to , as long as the information is publicly available, ie: on a chamber website of business website its fine.

ie a software company creating a data base of companies that could/would use their software and the details of the head of IT.

not sure about selling it on though...

if its hunting down these people are getting their personal data its shady.

I understand that there are legal ways of using data but to tell you the truth I don't think what these guys are doing falls under that category. I dont want to add too much detail here as it may give away who they are and if what they are doing is in fact legal I don't want to trouble them. Do you mind if I PM you? I can tell you exactly how they are gathering the data and how they are using it.

Heart Break Kid

Its legal. Ive worked with a firm that shares customer information... Online websites all do it.

SeriesFun

It sounds like information that will be passed to people operating boiler room scams.

cinnamony

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Its legal. Ive worked with a firm that shares customer information... Online websites all do it.

I know what you're talking about and this doesnt seem to be the case here. These people on their database are not constumers as this business does not provide any service to the public. They simply sell personal information belonging to people who are likely to fund the companies who asked them for the info.

moc moc a moc

bonyn wrote: »

You've no obligation to the data protection people so ethics don't come into it.

The "data protection people" are there to protect our data, they're not some shadow organisation that we need to feel "obligations" to. They work for us. It could be your personal details that end up getting sold to who knows what kind of shady organisations if these characters are allowed to continue.

Giacomo McGubbin

Sounds like it's Irish water or one of their crony spin offs

livedadream

cinnamony wrote: »

. Do you mind if I PM you? I can tell you exactly how they are gathering the data and how they are using it.

sure... cant make any promises but ill tell you my opinion.

cinnamony

moc moc a moc wrote: »

The "data protection people" are there to protect our data, they're not some shadow organisation that we need to feel "obligations" to. They work for us. It could be your personal details that end up getting sold to who knows what kind of shady organisations if these characters are allowed to continue.

Which is why what I want to do is contact the data protection commissioner even if I may be at risk as I don't agree with what they're doing, but unfortunately I really am in a very sensitive position. The reason is on the commission website it states I need to provide documentation to support my complaint, but I don't have such documentation because they didn't make their activities obvious until i went to the face to face interview. Meaning I don't have any e-mails or whatever where they detail what it is they do. The only way I could get my hands on any documentation would be to work for them so I have no idea what action to take.

cinnamony

Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »

Sounds like it's Irish water or one of their crony spin offs

It's not Irish water but they work with very very big names.

Giacomo McGubbin

cinnamony wrote: »

It's not Irish water but they work with very very big names.

ahhh now it's making sense. Good ole Ireland eh.

DivingDuck

If you don't have enough to speak to the ODPC, try a newspaper. An anonymous/sourced tip to an investigative reporter could be a story he'd be grateful for and give you a clear conscience and peace of mind.

While you aren't responsible for any of this, I would urge you to do something with the information you have if at all possible. This sort of carry-on is disgraceful, and I think most people would love to see a stop put to it.

cinnamony

Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »

ahhh now it's making sense. Good ole Ireland eh.

Ah what're your talking about? Great largely unregulated little country :P

DivingDuck wrote: »

If you don't have enough to speak to the ODPC, try a newspaper. An anonymous/sourced tip to an investigative reporter could be a story he'd be grateful for and give you a clear conscience and peace of mind.

While you aren't responsible for any of this, I would urge you to do something with the information you have if at all possible. This sort of carry-on is disgraceful, and I think most people would love to see a stop put to it.

Do you have any idea how I could go on about contacting an investigative reporter? I can tell you that if it turns out that what they're doing is in fact illegal it will be a major scandal and will hopefully be enough to stop other 'businesses' from carrying out this sort of activity.
On the other hand, what happens if it turns out they are doing this legally? Will I receive repercussion?

So sorry for all the questions, but I would feel like an accomplice knowing that someone is potentially using people's information in a criminal way and do nothing...

ezra_

cinnamony wrote: »

Hi,

I went to an interview today for a position within my field however it turned out to be quite the opposite of what I expected.
It turns out that the position is not only not what was advertised but I fear it may be illegal!
Basically, they want someone to research certain groups of the population and gather info about people who meet their criteria. The types of info they are looking for are names, addresses, phone numbers etc... you basically create a spreadsheet with these details on tons of people and then they sell this to their clients.

I'm very concerned about this as I have never heard of anyone working in such a position?? Is this even legal??

(P.S. I hope this is the right forum so sorry if it isn't!!)

Was the research relating to private individuals? Ie, all males who are between the age of 30 and 40 and live in Dublin?

If so, using that data to contact these people is a breach of data protection legislation.

If the research relates to companies and contacting people in a professional role, with regard to their job and contacting them through their corporate offices (ie their office number, not their personal mobile) that that is fine. Lots of companies do this.

cinnamony

ezra_ wrote: »

Was the research relating to private individuals? Ie, all males who are between the age of 30 and 40 and live in Dublin?

If so, using that data to contact these people is a breach of data protection legislation.

If the research relates to companies and contacting people in a professional role, with regard to their job and contacting them through their corporate offices (ie their office number, not their personal mobile) that that is fine. Lots of companies do this.

I answered your question by pm just to be safe!
but reading your post I think it would fall under your first assumption.

DivingDuck

cinnamony wrote: »

Do you have any idea how I could go on about contacting an investigative reporter? I can tell you that if it turns out that what they're doing is in fact illegal it will be a major scandal and will hopefully be enough to stop other 'businesses' from carrying out this sort of activity.
On the other hand, what happens if it turns out they are doing this legally? Will I receive repercussion?

So sorry for all the questions, but I would feel like an accomplice knowing that someone is potentially using people's information in a criminal way and do nothing...

I don't personally know anyone, I'm afraid, but you could try asking around on the News & Media forum here on boards, or perhaps the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists might be able to point you in the right direction (Twitter might be your best bet there). If they are an international company or have any presence in the UK, Ars might be another place worth speaking to if there's any technical/computer aspect to their method of data collection. You might want to consider a new, anonymous email/Twitter account while making your inquiries if you think you can get away with reporting this anonymously. Is this a large-scale operation? Were there other candidates for the job? Can your Boards account be traced back to you as an individual? I would want to protect my anonymity here if I could.

That said, if their actions are legal, and you did not sign any confidentiality agreements before, during, or after your meeting, I can't imagine you'd get into any trouble outside of not getting the job and/or possibly being blacklisted by extensions of the company in question. I am not a solicitor, however, so please do not take this as legal advice or guaranteed to be correct. So long as what you are saying is factual truth and you did not agree to waive your right to speak about it, though, what repercussions could there be?

I admire your willingness to stand up and report this matter, and I wish there were more people who do the same. The use and abuse of data is an area I feel quite passionately about and while I'm not enormously surprised to hear that this is going on, I'd still like to see those engaging in it get their comeuppance.

cinnamony

DivingDuck wrote: »

I don't personally know anyone, I'm afraid, but you could try asking around on the News & Media forum on boards, or perhaps the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists might be able to point you in the right direction (Twitter might be your best bet there). If they are an international company or have any presence in the UK, might be another place worth speaking to if there's any technical/computer aspect to their method of data collection. You might want to consider a new, anonymous email/Twitter account while making your inquiries if you think you can get away with reporting this anonymously. Is this a large-scale operation? Were there other candidates for the job? Can your Boards account be traced back to you as an individual? I would want to protect my anonymity here if I could.

That said, if their actions are legal, and you did not sign any confidentiality agreements before, during, or after your meeting, I can't imagine you'd get into any trouble outside of not getting the job and/or possibly being blacklisted by extensions of the company in question. I am not a solicitor, however, so please do not take this as legal advice or guaranteed to be correct. So long as what you are saying is factual truth and you did not agree to waive your right to speak about it, though, what repercussions could there be?

I admire your willingness to stand up and report this matter, and I wish there were more people who do the same. The use and abuse of data is an area I feel quite passionately about and while I'm not enormously surprised to hear that this is going on, I'd still like to see those engaging in it get their comeuppance.

Thank you very much for the useful info and wise advice, if there's a forum on boards for legal advice maybe I should open a thread there or something. Perhaps someone could advise me more clearly in regards to the legal side of things. That said I did not sign any confidentiality waiver or anything like that.

In regards to being traced, I think my account may be traced on the basis of IP address but this isn't something I'm an expert on. I imagine in order for anyone to get that info they would have to contact the boards team and request they give them my information, I would imagine this would be illegal to do in this case as I'm not engaging in any illegal activity, simply trying to find out whether this company is legit as it struck me as something strange.

Thank you very much, in fairness they could be completely clean as some users made me aware that this data could have potentially been achieved through legal means but their actions make no sense to me so I decided to pursue it further.

DivingDuck

cinnamony wrote: »

Thank you very much for the useful info and wise advice, if there's a forum on boards for legal advice maybe I should open a thread there or something. Perhaps someone could advise me more clearly in regards to the legal side of things. That said I did not sign any confidentiality waiver or anything like that.

In regards to being traced, I think my account may be traced on the basis of IP address but this isn't something I'm an expert on. I imagine in order for anyone to get that info they would have to contact the boards team and request they give them my information, I would imagine this would be illegal to do in this case as I'm not engaging in any illegal activity, simply trying to find out whether this company is legit as it struck me as something strange.

Thank you very much, in fairness they could be completely clean as some users made me aware that this data could have potentially been achieved through legal means but their actions make no sense to me so I decided to pursue it further.

The legal discussion forum is here, but do read the charter as there is no specific legal advice allowed. You might want to consider PMing one of the mods in the News & Media forum to see if they can help put you in touch with someone in the media before making more public posts, though.

Regards tracing your identity, I meant more along the lines of you having left identifying information in your post history— where you work, live, your age, etc.

Good luck, OP, I really do wish you all the best.

cinnamony

DivingDuck wrote: »

The legal discussion forum is here, but do read the charter as there is no specific legal advice allowed. You might want to consider PMing one of the mods in the News & Media forum to see if they can help put you in touch with someone in the media before making more public posts, though.

Regards tracing your identity, I meant more along the lines of you having left identifying information in your post history— where you work, live, your age, etc.

Good luck, OP, I really do wish you all the best.

That makes sense they wouldn't allow specific legal advice actually...
That's a good idea, also now that I think of it the commissioner for data protection has an e-mail where you can ask for information. Maybe I could ask them whether this does in fact constitute a breach of data law...To be honest, I'd feel better about going forward with this if I can get a legal opinion on the issue.

Ah right! I don't have any posts like that and I'll continue to be careful with it too thanks

Thank you, I'm honestly hoping that I'm wrong about this!

Hercule Poirot

cinnamony wrote: »

Hi,

I went to an interview today for a position within my field however it turned out to be quite the opposite of what I expected.
It turns out that the position is not only not what was advertised but I fear it may be illegal!
Basically, they want someone to research certain groups of the population and gather info about people who meet their criteria. The types of info they are looking for are names, addresses, phone numbers etc... you basically create a spreadsheet with these details on tons of people and then they sell this to their clients.

I'm very concerned about this as I have never heard of anyone working in such a position?? Is this even legal??

(P.S. I hope this is the right forum so sorry if it isn't!!)

I'm afraid there is nothing illegal going on here - while I don't have the full details I'm assuming that your role is to assemble publicly displayed information (i.e., on FB or other media outlets) correlate this information into something understandable and well presented and then sell your info to the highest bidder. Things like this are very common in America and it's essentially data mining but on a professional level.

You may have personal, ethical issues with the task at hand, however, I'm not sure that it is illegal because all you would really be doing is the grunt work that marketing companies probably couldn't be arsed to do themselves

This is indeed legal and is what targeted online advertising operates on. However this information is mostly collected automatically by bots. Every bit of information you give online or every topic you 'like' gets noted and placed on a database somewhere. Have you ever thought why so many organisations want to know your date of birth or 'security' phone number?

However, your interviewer seems to be using (expensive) stone age methods and technology. Maybe they want to chase a sector of the population that is not active online or maybe they want need a higher level of accuracy for a particular purpose.

Chuchote

You might give the data commissioner a ring; even if you don't want to make a formal complaint, it's a heads-up, and it will settle your worry about being involved in illegality. Meanwhile, good luck with the job hunt; I hope you find something that suits you.

cinnamony

Thanks for your replies guys!

I have decided get in contact with the commissioner first, not to file a complaint but to ask him about it and settle some worries I still have. At least then my conscience will be fully clean and if its legal great! if not I will potentially go with the journalist route as I am not in possession of enough proof to file a complaint myself.
I feel this is a fair enough approach...

With that said, even if it turns out to be legal I won't be working for them as I personally feel its an unethical approach to marketing and I'd rather not be involved. Thankfully, I have already been offered a job that will allow me to sleep peacefully at night so that side of things worked out wonderfully

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Chuchote

Great news on the job! Well wear!