All Ireland SHC Final - Kilkenny V Tipperary *READ MOD NOTE POST #1*

Realt Dearg Sec

Well folks, what do ye think?

Hard one to call, and a lot to discuss about it off course! Are tipp due a win?

I think it looks like they're coming good. The Munster final showed what they're capable of, and the semi still has them coming in under the radar after a fairly inconsistent performance that still secured the win. Kilkenny look Vulnerable in the full back line at times, which tipp are primed to exploit. The loss of Mick fennelly will be crucial, of course, and it probably forces us to shore up the middle, probably using tj in a similar role to the last day.

Anyway I'm nervous of tipp to be honest, just think they're coming in at the right pitch to cause the upset.

Mod Note: Please remember that abuse of players, managers, fans (in general) and other posters is a big no no. Generally using terms like scum (and its variants), thug, filth, kn***er etc. will be carded.
Personally abusing other posters will also not be tolerated.
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Also, regardless of who wins, try to win with a bit of dignity. No goading or baiting other posters.
This'll be the only warning. So there's no excuse for anyone to step out of line.

Enjoy the game. Here's hoping it's a cracker.

adrian522

Tipp could win this pulling up. They are in a better position than 2014. We are not in as good shape as in 2014.

I remember when KK were facing that penalty in 2014 thinking that if this goes in it could be a very long day for Kilkenny. The way KK are playing at the moment it would be hard to see them winning without a couple of goals but I guess with Kilkenny you never know, they have a habit of hanging around in games even when not playing well and very rarely lose when the game is close in the last few mins.

At the moment I'd be thinking Tipp by 6 or 7 points.

robbiezero

To win, I think this Tipperary team will have to go where they have not been since 2010 in terms of physicality and intensity. It is hard to know where Tipperary are at the moment in relation to KK, the Waterford Munster final skews any cogent analysis and I am inclined to discard it altogether, Waterford really just downed tools in the second half of that game.

Beat a brutal Cork side easily, Limerick game hard to judge due to being down to 14 men, but it was a good hard working win albeit against a very poor Limerick side.
Galway game not a great performance, possibly some of it due to the 5 week break.
I'm not really seeing what puts Tipp as favourites or even level favourites with KK to win this. We know KK will bring ferocious intensity and physicality, can Tipp match this - The tackle count was 54 to 33 in favour of Galway on Sunday, Tipp will have to massively improve here to compete in the All-Ireland.
The Tipperary backs have looked solid all year, but they have not yet faced a test anywhere what they will get in the All-Ireland both in terms of attacking power and also pressure put on our defenders when they have the ball.

I'd imagine with Fennelly out, Fogarty will move back into midfield, with Hogan or Walsh, this battle could go either way with Fennelly a huge loss for Kilkenny around the middle third.
Tipp will surely start Bubbles at the expense of O'Meara so while the scoring potential is increased, the work rate probably decreases so massive games will be needed from Bonnar and McCormack. If we can break even in the half forward line, we will be half way there. Tipp will surely try to isolate Callanan and Holden where possible and I think there are scores there for Tipp if we can do that successfully.

Overall, with the most Tipp tinted glasses I can wear, I see this at best a 50-50 game for Tipp, and that is assuming they can raise their game beyond what we have seen so far this year or even since 2010.

dastardly00

As expected, Brian Gavin (Offaly) has been named as the referee. Barry Kelly (Westmeath) will be the standby referee and linesman, with Colm Lyons (Cork) the other linesman. John Keane (Galway) is the the sideline official.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0822/811112-offalyman-brian-gavin-to-ref-all-ireland-shc-final/

shauna17

I think Tipp can win this final they really have put in alot of work this year and have been playing really well.

The semi final really showed how well they can play was such a tight match and they deserved to come out on top .

Very very hard to call this. Fennelly a loss to Kilkenny but they still have it in their Arsenal to win this. Reid, Hogan, Colin Fennelly and Wally Walsh are all capable match winners. In Blanchfield they have a unknown quantity relatively. We were awful in truth the last day but many positives to be taken. We kept Our cool but our touch was not there and we have to cut out the sloppiness. 2 goals came from it last day out.

Another classic awaits. Like the 2014 drawn game it will go down to the wire. Hurling is a game of opportunities and moments really. As Adrian said had we scored the penalty it could have opened floodgates and if Kilkenny took the point later on to make it five it would have sealed it on the first day

danganabu

robbiezero wrote: »

Tipp will surely try to isolate Callanan and Holden where possible and I think there are scores there for Tipp if we can do that successfully.

I think Tipp should alternate regularly between Seamie and John McGrath at full, McGrath represents a completely different challenge and it would be very hard for any FB to switch between the two.

I don't think we would have beaten Galway only for that switch been made and it probably should have been made earlier.

danganabu

danganabu wrote: »

I think Tipp should alternate regularly between Seamie and John McGrath at full, McGrath represents a completely different challenge and it would be very hard for any FB to switch between the two.

I don't think we would have beaten Galway only for that switch been made and it probably should have been made earlier.

100% agree with this. I'd start Bubbles too. We have two workhorses that will battle for dirty ball so it's better to have 4 other forwards that will get us scores and Mikey Breen to chip in also.

dastardly00

If Tipp manage to drag Paul Murphy & Shane Prendergast out the field and isolate Joey Holden, I could see Seamie Callanan having a field day

dastardly00

dastardly00 wrote: »

If Tipp manage to drag Paul Murphy & Shane Prendergast out the field and isolate Joey Holden, I could see Seamie Callanan having a field day

I think Kilkenny will hold their positions and the midfield and wing forwards will do alot of tracking. In the drawn game in 2014, a few backs were given a tour of Croker (bubbles v Holden for one) and barring Eoin Murphys terrific save and the cross bars intervention, the floodgates may well have opened. In the replay Kilkennys 6 held their positions and the half forward line showed tremendous work rate which nullified Bubbles, Lar, Noel to an extent

danganabu

Deleted User wrote: »

I think Kilkenny will hold their positions and the midfield and wing forwards will do alot of tracking. In the drawn game in 2014, a few backs were given a tour of Croker (bubbles v Holden for one) and barring Eoin Murphys terrific save and the cross bars intervention, the floodgates may well have opened. In the replay Kilkennys 6 held their positions and the half forward line showed tremendous work rate which nullified Bubbles, Lar, Noel to an extent

Very true and Tipp had absolutely no plan b, I would like to think, possibly in my innocence, that Mick Ryan would have a plan A, B and C if needed.

robbiezero

I hope our back six hold their positions anyway. Bring back half forwards to cover Richie etc if they drop deep.
Replay in 2014 saw us concede huge space to the kk forwards.

danganabu

robbiezero wrote: »

I hope our back six hold their positions anyway. Bring back half forwards to cover Richie etc if they drop deep.
Replay in 2014 saw us concede huge space to the kk forwards.

I think in 2014 we had too many players playing out of position, that seems to have been rectified this year.

My biggest concern re the backs is that KK target Seamus Kennedy in a similar way that they targeted John O'Keefe in 2011, Seamus has looked very assured thus far but wont have faced anything like this.

danganabu

danganabu wrote: »

I think in 2014 we had too many players playing out of position, that seems to have been rectified this year.

My biggest concern re the backs is that KK target Seamus Kennedy in a similar way that they targeted John O'Keefe in 2011, Seamus has looked very assured thus far but wont have faced anything like this.

The big thing here will be for the likes of Dan McCormack and the Bonnar to stop the likes of Buckley or Padraig Walsh distributing clean ball up to their half forward line. They got unbelievable ball up to Shefflin of all people in 2011. Tipp forwards just never got going that day.

danganabu

Deleted User wrote: »

The big thing here will be for the likes of Dan McCormack and the Bonnar to stop the likes of Buckley or Padraig Walsh distributing clean ball up to their half forward line. They got unbelievable ball up to Shefflin of all people in 2011. Tipp forwards just never got going that day.

Exactly, Tommy Walsh was left unmarked that day and was raining ball on top of JOK, who was harshly treated IMO, what was wrong with switching the wing backs or telling John O'Brien to mark his man, not been critical of Johnno here btw, I was directly in line with Johnno that day and more than once he looked across to the line and was told to stay inside. Exactly the same thing happened in 2010 against Cork, Gardner was the supplier and we even made Asiake look inter-county standard, Sheedy learnt from his mistake, Declan and Tommy did not!

danganabu

danganabu wrote: »

Exactly, Tommy Walsh was left unmarked that day and was raining ball on top of JOK, who was harshly treated IMO, what was wrong with switching the wing backs or telling John O'Brien to mark his man, not been critical of Johnno here btw, I was directly in line with Johnno that day and more than once he looked across to the line and was told to stay inside. Exactly the same thing happened in 2010 against Cork, Gardner was the supplier and we even made Asiake look inter-county standard, Sheedy learnt from his mistake, Declan and Tommy did not!

Without being too harsh on Declan and Tommy i dont think management is their forté somehow. I think their solution was another trip down to behr island the year after

letowski

As a neutral, if I had to put money on the final, I'd be slightly leaning towards Tipp, just. I think this is a different Tipp team this year in its make up, its more balanced and in good form. I think Ryan has a brought a greater emphasis workrate and physicality to this team bringing in guys like Kennedy, Breen and McCormack, instead of players like Bergin or Forde. Even the selection of O'Meara over Bubbles the last day showed his way of thinking. Contray, as other posters mentioned, Mick Fennelly is a big loss. In fairness I know KK people wont use it as an excuse, but at the same time they are losing the most influential midfielder of the last few years, Fennelly had a big game last year too. There are few better players at taking the game to the oppostion than Fennelly in the second hslf, he is a big time player.

I think because of these things Tipp should be able to break even around midfield and get good ball inside to their full forward line. In McGrath, Callinan, Bubbles, they probably have the best inside in the country.

I think it should be good hogh scoring final. I know its been said to death, but having a manager like Cody is such a huge factor too. Im mean he has been to countless finals now, you know for an almost fact KK will be in good form no matter what. They have been here and done that, its now up to Tipp to deliver.

robbiezero

I don't think it will be a high scoring final. I'd say both defences will be on top and I expect a dogged game similar to the 2014 replay.
I agree that KK are hugely consistent and we know what they will bring on the day. Tipp have to play better than they have on any day since 2010 which is an unknown.
Fennelly is a loss, but KK are like the Borg, they just bring in someone new and the output of the team rarely drops.
To be honest I am surprised so many are fancying Tipp, I think Tipp have a good chance, but KK clear favs for me.

robbiezero

robbiezero wrote: »

I don't think it will be a high scoring final. I'd say both defences will be on top and I expect a dogged game similar to the 2014 replay.
I agree that KK are hugely consistent and we know what they will bring on the day. Tipp have to play better than they have on any day since 2010 which is an unknown.
Fennelly is a loss, but KK are like the Borg, they just bring in someone new and the output of the team rarely drops.
To be honest I am surprised so many are fancying Tipp, I think Tipp have a good chance, but KK clear favs for me.

Heart says Tipp but the head sadly says the Cats again. Lets hope we have our own '1967' this time. We are due one but we have to go out and earn it.

tbiggertycome

Posted this over on the KilkennyGAA thread

Personally I would like to see us line out as follows
Scruffy
Murphy, Joey, Prender
Walsh, Joyce, Buck
Fogarty, Richie
Wally, TJ, Power/Lester (which ever is going better in training I'd prefer to start Lester and bring on Power)
Blanch, Colin, Larks

I could see Richie and TJ changing like Richie and Fennelly did to T. De Burca in the semi replay and they'd cause R Maher untold trouble. If you look at Tipp's players in the middle third where they expect their going to come and hit us hard it includes 4 lads who haven't played in an AI before and two are in their first season thats a lot of inexperience in that vital middle third.
Tipps middle third players- this match would be there (?th)AI apperance (including the drawn match)
Seamus Kennedy(1st), Ronan Maher(1st), Padraig Maher(6th)
Brendan Maher(6th-1 as sub), Michael Breen (1st)
Dan McCormick (1st), Bonner(5th), Noel McGrath(6th)

Compare that to our middle third players as named above
Walsh(4th- 1 as sub), Joyce(5th), Buck(5th)
Fogarty(4th), Richie(8th- 1 as sub)
Wally(4th), TJ(10th- 3 as sub), Power(4th- 2 as sub)
The as sub means they took the field in the final, I didn't count games or years where they stayed on the bench lots of our lads only made the team in '12 or '14 but still have had the experience of being there on the pitch on at least 4 occasions.

I would say with 4 AI debutants in that middle third for Tipp, at least 1 of them is in for a tough day, 1 will probably excel and the other two could go either way.

The likely match ups
P Murphy v John McGrath- I would be happy Murphy will keep him fairly quite we won't ever stop him scoring we just need to keep him out of the net
Joey v Callanan- Joey should be really confident after the semi's, again keep him out of the net and let Murphy sweep up the loose ball
Prender v Bubbles- strangely enough I'm happy at the thought of Prender on Bubbles, Prender won't dominate him but he'll go about his business quietly

Padraig v Noel McGrath- I'd be happy if Padraig stops him spraying it around and wins most in the air
Joyce v Bonner- I think Joyce has the winning of this one
Buck v Dan McCormick- Buck should get well on top here with any luck, McCormick might win the odd high ball but after that it should all be Buckley

Conor and Richie v Brendan Maher and Michael Breen- Ideally I'd like to see Conor on Brendan and Richie ghosting away from Breen (like Coen did to Tipp)giving him something to concentrate on and curtail his forward drives and if it doesn't Richie will run amok

Wally v Padraig Maher- I think Wally can keep him quite and cause trouble I think it's important to stop Maher making catches that inspire Tipp players and fans.
TJ v Ronan Maher- if TJ can do what the Waterford U21's did to Ronan Maher we'd practically have the game won.
John Power v Seamus Kennedy- I'd be happy with a break even here.

Blanchield v Micky Cahill- High ball in here and Blanch would cause lots of trouble.
Colin v Barry- I think Colin could run riot in here, if we play smart we can give him loads of joy in there.
Larkin v Cathal Barrett- Larkin probably won't spend long in here but when he is sending in high ball over Barrett is the name of the game.

I'd love to see Larkin and Blanch camp out in their respective corners for the first 15 mins and we send low diagonal ball into Colin this would cause loads of trouble for Barry. If their men don't want to stay out there with them let the ball into Blanch & Larks and tip it over the bar running back out.

All of this is based on us playing at least too the level we played against Waterford the second day if not higher and even at that it'll be very close I reckon. There's never much between us but if we can keep Tipp to less than two goals I reckon we'll have it in the end.

Tipperary animal lover

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Posted this over on the KilkennyGAA thread

Personally I would like to see us line out as follows
Scruffy
Murphy, Joey, Prender
Walsh, Joyce, Buck
Fogarty, Richie
Wally, TJ, Power/Lester (which ever is going better in training I'd prefer to start Lester and bring on Power)
Blanch, Colin, Larks

I could see Richie and TJ changing like Richie and Fennelly did to T. De Burca in the semi replay and they'd cause R Maher untold trouble. If you look at Tipp's players in the middle third where they expect their going to come and hit us hard it includes 4 lads who haven't played in an AI before and two are in their first season thats a lot of inexperience in that vital middle third.
Tipps middle third players- this match would be there (?th)AI apperance (including the drawn match)
Seamus Kennedy(1st), Ronan Maher(1st), Padraig Maher(6th)
Brendan Maher(6th-1 as sub), Michael Breen (1st)
Dan McCormick (1st), Bonner(5th), Noel McGrath(6th)

Compare that to our middle third players as named above
Walsh(4th- 1 as sub), Joyce(5th), Buck(5th)
Fogarty(4th), Richie(8th- 1 as sub)
Wally(4th), TJ(10th- 3 as sub), Power(4th- 2 as sub)
The as sub means they took the field in the final, I didn't count games or years where they stayed on the bench lots of our lads only made the team in '12 or '14 but still have had the experience of being there on the pitch on at least 4 occasions.

I would say with 4 AI debutants in that middle third for Tipp, at least 1 of them is in for a tough day, 1 will probably excel and the other two could go either way.

The likely match ups
P Murphy v John McGrath- I would be happy Murphy will keep him fairly quite we won't ever stop him scoring we just need to keep him out of the net
Joey v Callanan- Joey should be really confident after the semi's, again keep him out of the net and let Murphy sweep up the loose ball
Prender v Bubbles- strangely enough I'm happy at the thought of Prender on Bubbles, Prender won't dominate him but he'll go about his business quietly

Padraig v Noel McGrath- I'd be happy if Padraig stops him spraying it around and wins most in the air
Joyce v Bonner- I think Joyce has the winning of this one
Buck v Dan McCormick- Buck should get well on top here with any luck, McCormick might win the odd high ball but after that it should all be Buckley

Conor and Richie v Brendan Maher and Michael Breen- Ideally I'd like to see Conor on Brendan and Richie ghosting away from Breen (like Coen did to Tipp)giving him something to concentrate on and curtail his forward drives and if it doesn't Richie will run amok

Wally v Padraig Maher- I think Wally can keep him quite and cause trouble I think it's important to stop Maher making catches that inspire Tipp players and fans.
TJ v Ronan Maher- if TJ can do what the Waterford U21's did to Ronan Maher we'd practically have the game won.
John Power v Seamus Kennedy- I'd be happy with a break even here.

Blanchield v Micky Cahill- High ball in here and Blanch would cause lots of trouble.
Colin v Barry- I think Colin could run riot in here, if we play smart we can give him loads of joy in there.
Larkin v Cathal Barrett- Larkin probably won't spend long in here but when he is sending in high ball over Barrett is the name of the game.

I'd love to see Larkin and Blanch camp out in their respective corners for the first 15 mins and we send low diagonal ball into Colin this would cause loads of trouble for Barry. If their men don't want to stay out there with them let the ball into Blanch & Larks and tip it over the bar running back out.

All of this is based on us playing at least too the level we played against Waterford the second day if not higher and even at that it'll be very close I reckon. There's never much between us but if we can keep Tipp to less than two goals I reckon we'll have it in the end.[/QUOTE
No need for tipp to turn up with this analysis, every tipp player beaten in every position. Nothing more to see here folks move along.

Realt Dearg Sec

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Posted this over on the KilkennyGAA thread

Personally I would like to see us line out as follows
Scruffy
Murphy, Joey, Prender
Walsh, Joyce, Buck
Fogarty, Richie
Wally, TJ, Power/Lester (which ever is going better in training I'd prefer to start Lester and bring on Power)
Blanch, Colin, Larks

I could see Richie and TJ changing like Richie and Fennelly did to T. De Burca in the semi replay and they'd cause R Maher untold trouble. If you look at Tipp's players in the middle third where they expect their going to come and hit us hard it includes 4 lads who haven't played in an AI before and two are in their first season thats a lot of inexperience in that vital middle third.
Tipps middle third players- this match would be there (?th)AI apperance (including the drawn match)
Seamus Kennedy(1st), Ronan Maher(1st), Padraig Maher(6th)
Brendan Maher(6th-1 as sub), Michael Breen (1st)
Dan McCormick (1st), Bonner(5th), Noel McGrath(6th)

Compare that to our middle third players as named above
Walsh(4th- 1 as sub), Joyce(5th), Buck(5th)
Fogarty(4th), Richie(8th- 1 as sub)
Wally(4th), TJ(10th- 3 as sub), Power(4th- 2 as sub)
The as sub means they took the field in the final, I didn't count games or years where they stayed on the bench lots of our lads only made the team in '12 or '14 but still have had the experience of being there on the pitch on at least 4 occasions.

I would say with 4 AI debutants in that middle third for Tipp, at least 1 of them is in for a tough day, 1 will probably excel and the other two could go either way.

The likely match ups
P Murphy v John McGrath- I would be happy Murphy will keep him fairly quite we won't ever stop him scoring we just need to keep him out of the net
Joey v Callanan- Joey should be really confident after the semi's, again keep him out of the net and let Murphy sweep up the loose ball
Prender v Bubbles- strangely enough I'm happy at the thought of Prender on Bubbles, Prender won't dominate him but he'll go about his business quietly

Padraig v Noel McGrath- I'd be happy if Padraig stops him spraying it around and wins most in the air
Joyce v Bonner- I think Joyce has the winning of this one
Buck v Dan McCormick- Buck should get well on top here with any luck, McCormick might win the odd high ball but after that it should all be Buckley

Conor and Richie v Brendan Maher and Michael Breen- Ideally I'd like to see Conor on Brendan and Richie ghosting away from Breen (like Coen did to Tipp)giving him something to concentrate on and curtail his forward drives and if it doesn't Richie will run amok

Wally v Padraig Maher- I think Wally can keep him quite and cause trouble I think it's important to stop Maher making catches that inspire Tipp players and fans.
TJ v Ronan Maher- if TJ can do what the Waterford U21's did to Ronan Maher we'd practically have the game won.
John Power v Seamus Kennedy- I'd be happy with a break even here.

Blanchield v Micky Cahill- High ball in here and Blanch would cause lots of trouble.
Colin v Barry- I think Colin could run riot in here, if we play smart we can give him loads of joy in there.
Larkin v Cathal Barrett- Larkin probably won't spend long in here but when he is sending in high ball over Barrett is the name of the game.

I'd love to see Larkin and Blanch camp out in their respective corners for the first 15 mins and we send low diagonal ball into Colin this would cause loads of trouble for Barry. If their men don't want to stay out there with them let the ball into Blanch & Larks and tip it over the bar running back out.

All of this is based on us playing at least too the level we played against Waterford the second day if not higher and even at that it'll be very close I reckon. There's never much between us but if we can keep Tipp to less than two goals I reckon we'll have it in the end.[/QUOTE
No need for tipp to turn up with this analysis, every tipp player beaten in every position. Nothing more to see here folks move along.

That's not what he said but if it makes you feel better...

adrian522

nice post, but I really don't share your optimistic appraisal of the situation. People say Tipp haven't been tested but they have played pretty well in all of their games so far.

Kilkenny have just been getting the job done, but really can we say they have played to their potential at all this year?

We are very heavily reliant on TJ and Richie and I'd be worried if one of them has an off day we could be in trouble.

tbiggertycome

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

No need for tipp to turn up with this analysis, every tipp player beaten in every position. Nothing more to see here folks move along.

You know me so well :rolleyes:

What I wrote is how I hope the individual match ups will go. Perhaps I didn't choose the most appropriate verbs but I'm positive when it comes to our lads as I assume you are when talking about yeres. If you want to read it as you have then you believe that I think Tipp will only score a handful of points in the whole game and that we will score for fun down the far end a score line of 0-5 to 3-25 perhaps.

tbiggertycome wrote: »

even at that it'll be very close I reckon. There's never much between us but if we can keep Tipp to less than two goals I reckon we'll have it in the end.

So a score line of 0-5 to 3-25 does that sound close to you?

Even if our FB is dominant for 99% of the game we all know that with the forwards ye have that ye could still have 2 or 3 in the onionbag at the end. I do believe we'll be in control for large sections of the match but I also don't think the result is in anyway a forgone conclusion I've been at too many matches to be that gullible.

Answer me one question though do you think having 4 AI debutants in the middle third will effect ye positively or negatively? I've watched those lads this year in championship (one match in the league)but wouldn't know them as well as ye.

Its a 50/50 game, both teams get the best out of each other and it will probably come down to who wins the most individual battles at the end of the day being a catalyst for victory.

I like to think that the Tipp team who played exceptionally well against Waterford in July would dish out a beating to the Kilkenny team who played Waterford the first day in Croker but on the other side of the coin, the Kilkenny team that took to the field on August 13th in Thurles would have given the Tipp team who took to the field v Galway the following day an unholy beating. The fact is that Galway probably lost their semi final rather than we winning it.

tbiggertycome

adrian522 wrote: »

nice post, but I really don't share your optimistic appraisal of the situation. People say Tipp haven't been tested but they have played pretty well in all of their games so far.

Kilkenny have just been getting the job done, but really can we say they have played to their potential at all this year?

We are very heavily reliant on TJ and Richie and I'd be worried if one of them has an off day we could be in trouble.

Up to the replayed match I actually think most of TJ's performances this year have been off days by his high standards but I hope he's straightened that out now after his display the last day. Richie was useless are as near as earlier in the year and the injury and time off seems to have sorted him out so I'd have little fear there unless he gets injured again.

I don't agree that we have been just getting the job done all year but I also don't think we're playing to our full potential either I think there is another few percent in a few of our lads, not in terms of effort and work rate but in terms of first touch and decision making.

Dublin lived with us for 40 mins and fell off badly from having tried to get to our level and we streaked away

Galway, pretty much the same as Dublin except Galway could sustain the effort for 55 mins before we pulled away.

Waterford surprised us definitely with how they lined out & the 5 weeks is having more of an effect particularly in the first half of semis in the last 3 years. However we never gave up and Waterford retreated from the 55th minute on because they were totally shattered as a few of there players revealed in interviews after the game and in between the semis. We were still very lucky to get the draw after a titanic effort from both sides.

In the replay the surprise was gone and we kind of sprung a surprise with Blanchfield and TJ and Hogan midfield. Being honest if we had our touch and passing right that night we could have won a bit easier on the scoreboard. We cut them open 3 times in the second half for goals when the wrong option was taken each time but these worked out in the first half.

We definitely will have to get better to stand a chance of beating Tipp but how many times have we just been doing ok in the opening matches over the last few years but yet arrived at the AI at the perfect pitch, in Mick Dempsey I trust.

I'm not deluded to how we can be beaten I've seen it myself over the years thankfully not overly often. I'm fully aware it is a very possible outcome for the match and I'll be more nervous than anyone else in Croke Park with pins and needles from the tips of my fingers to my shoulders in both arms until the ball is thrown in (only happens before an AI). Currently I'm very positive on our chances, I'm sure before next Saturday I'll be the most pessimistic person about it you'll meet and then I'll become bipolar about the match only seeing the reasons we can loose for the morning one day and then convinced we can't loose for the evening.

It'll be close I don't know which way it'll go I know how I want it to go and at the minute I think we'll edge it by 2-3 points come back to me on Tuesday and it'll be totally different.

danganabu

robbiezero wrote: »

Tipp have to play better than they have on any day since 2010 which is an unknown.

I think you are seriously over rating this KK team, Tipp have had multiple performances post 2010 that would easily win this game.

adrian522

Really, multiple? That would "easily" win this game?

Would you care to list them? Assuming they would all fit into one post.

robbiezero

danganabu wrote: »

I think you are seriously over rating this KK team, Tipp have had multiple performances post 2010 that would easily win this game.

Such as?
I can't really count the Munster final performance as Waterford threw in the towel once they conceded the second goal and their performances v KK were light years ahead of the abject flat display they gave in the Munster final.
We have skewered a few low intensity teams at times over the last 6 years, but I can't really think of any performance we have given that would match KK in the replay v Waterford or KK in the Leinster final this year.
KK have twice filletted a Galway team that beat us last year and came fairly close to it again this year.
I can't for the life of me see how the likes of Paddy Power has us favourites for this game.
There is a lot of happy explaining away of the quite poor Galway performance with the 5 week break. I can understand us being a bit rusty, KK were too in the first game v Waterford, but I expected a much higher work-rate and intensity from us, the 5 week break doesn't explain why that was absent.

jive

I fancy Tipp to win this one. Based on what I've seen so far, Tipp should have the beating of them. Michael Fennelly will be a big loss.

You couldn't confidently call it one way or another. Whoever wins will barely get over the line, there won't be more than a puck in it come the final whistle.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

Really, multiple? That would "easily" win this game?

Would you care to list them? Assuming they would all fit into one post.

I would care to despite your condescending tone! Now I may have omitted a few but as you alluded to yourself, tis hard to fit them all in one post :rolleyes:

2011 Munster Final. 2012 Munster Final, 2014 All Ireland Semi Final, 2014 All Ireland Final, 2015 Munster Semi Final and 2016 Munster Final.

Thats 6 off the top of my head, I hope that can be classified as multiple!

adrian522

Jaysus, must be the Kilkenny footballers you are thinking of, that's not who's playing on Sunday though.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

Jaysus, must be the Kilkenny footballers you are thinking of, that's not who's playing on Sunday though.

Standard of moderators has really dropped in this place! Anything worthwhile to add or are you just going to throw out meaningless bitch slaps?

adrian522

danganabu wrote: »

Standard of moderators has really dropped in this place! Anything worthwhile to add or are you just going to throw out meaningless bitch slaps?

I do, but if you think those performances would be enough to win easily on Sunday I don't think it's worth debating.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

I do, but if you think those performances would be enough to win easily on Sunday I don't think it's worth debating.

Which ones in particular? I would imagine every one of those would be enough, we clearly have very different views on the current standing of 'this' KK team but why the attitude?

adrian522

By your rationale you should be expecting nothing less that a comprehensive victory.

Sorry but performances against mediocre (at best) teams like Waterford and Cork of a few years ago would not be good enough.

What happened in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014(replay) against Kilkenny? where were these performances when it mattered most?

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

By your rationale you should be expecting nothing less that a comprehensive victory.

Sorry but performances against mediocre (at best) teams like Waterford and Cork of a few years ago would not be good enough.

What happened in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014(replay) against Kilkenny? where were these performances when it mattered most?

What are you talking about?

Who said anything about a comprehensive victory? I was merely replying to the the statement that Tipp haven't produced a performance capable of winning this game since 2010.

We lost all those games, but I really have no idea what point you are trying to make?

When you have finished climbing down from your high horse maybe we can continue this debate!!

Mantis Toboggan

Kilkenny certainly favourites.

They've won 5 of the last 6 between the two teams, they're going for 3 in a row and their 9th title in the last 11 years.

I've felt kk won't be beaten all year and nothing Tipp done against Galway has changed that opinion. Tipp were very lucky to beat Galway only for 2 goals in the last 10 minutes they'd be out of this year's championship. Tipp really struggled with Galways physicality and kk will be no different.

That said I did think that kk really showed their hand in the replay against Waterford. They really went to they're limit that day and barely got over the line.

Tipp will need to raise the physicality and intensity above anything they've brought this year. A serious man marking job will need to be done on Ritchie Hogan if tipp are to have any chance.

Weather looks good for the weekend so should make for a cracking game.

spinga

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Kilkenny certainly favourites.

They've won 5 of the last 6 between the two teams, they're going for 3 in a row and their 9th title in the last 11 years.

I've felt kk won't be beaten all year and nothing Tipp done against Galway has changed that opinion. Tipp were very lucky to beat Galway only for 2 goals in the last 10 minutes they'd be out of this year's championship. Tipp really struggled with Galways physicality and kk will be no different.

That said I did think that kk really showed their hand in the replay against Waterford. They really went to they're limit that day and barely got over the line.

Tipp will need to raise the physicality and intensity above anything they've brought this year. A serious man marking job will need to be done on Ritchie Hogan if tipp are to have any chance.

Weather looks good for the weekend so should make for a cracking game.

Kilkenny have won 7/8 of last championship meetings
02+03+12 semis
09+11+14 finals
13 qualifiers
Tips won 10 final...I think this is correct Tyson

danganabu

spinga wrote: »

Kilkenny have won 7/8 of last championship meetings
02+03+12 semis
09+11+14 finals
13 qualifiers
Tips won 10 final...I think this is correct Tyson

You forgot the draw in 2014.

adrian522

danganabu wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Who said anything about a comprehensive victory?

danganabu wrote: »

I think you are seriously over rating this KK team, Tipp have had multiple performances post 2010 that would easily win this game.

danganabu wrote: »

I was merely replying to the the statement that Tipp haven't produced a performance capable of winning this game since 2010.

You said, as quoted above that Tipp would win "easily" with any one of multiple performances since 2010. I am calling this out as nonsense. You can split hairs if you like between "easily" and "comprehensive". amounts to the same thing. If you think that Tipp performances against the likes of Cork and Waterford from the last few years are going to be enough for an easy win then you are in for a rude awakening.

The point I was trying to make was that if these performances were so good why could Tipp not produce them on the biggest stage, when it mattered most, against a better team? Maybe because the teams they beat in these games (excepting the 2014 AI final) were not all that good, and a similar performance on Sunday will not result in an easy win.

Personally I don't see any way that either team will win "easily" on Sunday. It's just not going to happen. But I'll leave you at it at this stage.

I also won't respond to your "high horse" comment. Low level trolling at best.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

You said, as quoted above that Tipp would win "easily" with any one of multiple performances since 2010. I am calling this out as nonsense. You can split hairs if you like between "easily" and "comprehensive". amounts to the same thing. If you think that Tipp performances against the likes of Cork and Waterford from the last few years are going to be enough for an easy win then you are in for a rude awakening.

The point I was trying to make was that if these performances were so good why could Tipp not produce them on the biggest stage, when it mattered most, against a better team? Maybe because the teams they beat in these games (excepting the 2014 AI final) were not all that good, and a similar performance on Sunday will not result in an easy win.

Personally I don't see any way that either team will win "easily" on Sunday. It's just not going to happen. But I'll leave you at it at this stage.

I also won't respond to your "high horse" comment. Low level trolling at best.

There is a big difference between saying that a repeat of a certain performance would win the game and actually saying that Tipp will produce said performance, Ii remain to be convinced of the latter.

You are looking for offence when none was made!

Not sure what your issue with Waterford and Cork, that would be the same Waterford that put KK to the pin of their collar twice this year and the same Cork team that last knocked KK out of the championship, why do these teams produce the goods against KK but are poor when Tipp beat them.

If you think I am trolling simply because I disagree with you then please report the post again!

Dyr

danganabu wrote: »

we clearly have very different views on the current standing of 'this' KK team but why the attitude?

What is your view on a team that has won ..what is it now? 8 of the last 10 all Irelands? And appeared in every final bar one?

adrian522

danganabu wrote: »

There is a big difference between saying that a repeat of a certain performance would win the game and actually saying that Tipp will produce said performance, Ii remain to be convinced of the latter.

You are looking for offence when none was made!

I'm not actually, I'm pointing out a serious flaw in your argument.

danganabu wrote: »

Not sure what your issue with Waterford and Cork, that would be the same Waterford that put KK to the pin of their collar twice this year and the same Cork team that last knocked KK out of the championship, why do these teams produce the goods against KK but are poor when Tipp beat them.

No issue with them,just they weren't very good teams at the time and I don't see how a similar performance would produce an easy win for Tipperary.

danganabu wrote: »

If you think I am trolling simply because I disagree with you then please report the post again!

Not because you disagree because you put in silly, childish comments about "bitch slaps" and "high-horse". No need for them and they add nothing to whatever argument you are trying to make.

enda1

I foresee a Kilkenny win by 5 to 7 points. A high scoring but even first half with Kilkenny 3 points up with ten to go.

Roll on Sunday!

tbiggertycome

I'd happily take that now, As I mentioned in a post here over the weekend I'd probably be very downcast about our prospects and I think my hurling-bipolar stage is coming on hard it's gonna be a tough few days ahead

danganabu

Bambi wrote: »

What is your view on a team that has won ..what is it now? 8 of the last 10 all Irelands? And appeared in every final bar one?

My view is that it is not this team, Eoin Larkin and Brian Cody are the only constants since 2006 so really that's a completely irrelevant statistic, impressive but completely irrelevant.

Kilkenny as a county have won 8 of the last 10, not 'this' KK team, I really have no idea what is causing your confusion tbh.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

I'm not actually, I'm pointing out a serious flaw in your argument.



No issue with them,just they weren't very good teams at the time and I don't see how a similar performance would produce an easy win for Tipperary.



Not because you disagree because you put in silly, childish comments about "bitch slaps" and "high-horse". No need for them and they add nothing to whatever argument you are trying to make.

SO lets be clear here, you are saying that Tipp have not produced a single performance since 2010 that would be good enough to win next Sunday, because that is the statement that I was replying to.

Bitch slaps and high horse are inappropriate but calling someone silly and childish is ok?

adrian522

danganabu wrote: »

SO lets be clear here, you are saying that Tipp have not produced a single performance since 2010 that would be good enough to win next Sunday, because that is the statement that I was replying to.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying Tipp do not have multiple performances since 2010 that would win this game "easily".

Not sure what is so difficult to understand about that. I think the only performance since 2010 that is likely to be good enough is the 2014 All Ireland final. But even that would not win the game easily. May be enough to get over the line by a point or 2, maybe not.

danganabu wrote: »

Bitch slaps and high horse are inappropriate but calling someone silly and childish is ok?

I didn't call you silly and childish, I said your comments were.

danganabu

Whatever, play with words and split hairs all you like, I couldn't really give a damn. Can we get back to talking about this years match now?

klose

Can never go wrong with sticking 10 or 20 on the draw in a game like this.