Homophobic, Biphobic & Transphobic Crime & Behaviour in Ireland

Nokia6230i

Re the above.

How many of ye know who to report it to?

Like not just a crime (which you'd naturally report to AGS) but any sort of Homo/Trans/Bi+ Phobic incidents?

Let's say you're walking down the street holding hands, you turn & kiss your boyfriend or girlfriend & the shout goes up "p******s" or "l*****s" or worse?

In the instance of crime, the egg-throwing, the gay-bashing, the graffiti spraying, the brick throwing, the car-scratching (keying) etc. would you do anything apart from reporting it to your local AGS (if you'd faith they'd a), investigate & do their best to catch culprit/s etc. and b), wouldn't do a Charles Self/Deccie Flynn on it and c), that it wouldn't be another slap on wrist for the scrote/s but that they'd get an education to change their minds maybe in form of restorative justice or working with various LGBTQI+ Groups etc.)?

Ten of Swords

There are links to the GLEN and TENI sites on the most recent post on the resource links sticky at the top of the forum, as well as a recent-ish list of gardai LGBT liaison officers.

In my opinion the Gardai would be less inclined to actively pursue anything less than criminal damage (keying) or an assault. Their resources are stretched too thin and the culprit will barely get a slap on the wrist. Name calling, wouldn't waste my time or theirs reporting it to guards but would record it on the GLEN site.

J_E

Nokia6230i wrote: »

ns/Bi+ Phobic incidents?

Let's say you're walking down the street holding hands, you turn & kiss your boyfriend or girlfriend & the shout goes up "p******s" or "l*****s" or worse?

I have no idea what those two words even are

Censoring them only increases the power they have when they're used.

You can't really stop incidents like that, but you do have the power to react to them, and I guarantee you they won't expect it if you do. It's very situational though, and it also depends on where it happens. Cities are a lot easier to deal with than towns, rural areas can be either lovely or nasty.

Annasopra

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Re the above.

How many of ye know who to report it to?

Like not just a crime (which you'd naturally report to AGS) but any sort of Homo/Trans/Bi+ Phobic incidents?

Let's say you're walking down the street holding hands, you turn & kiss your boyfriend or girlfriend & the shout goes up "p******s" or "l*****s" or worse?

In the instance of crime, the egg-throwing, the gay-bashing, the graffiti spraying, the brick throwing, the car-scratching (keying) etc. would you do anything apart from reporting it to your local AGS (if you'd faith they'd a), investigate & do their best to catch culprit/s etc. and b), wouldn't do a Charles Self/Deccie Flynn on it and c), that it wouldn't be another slap on wrist for the scrote/s but that they'd get an education to change their minds maybe in form of restorative justice or working with various LGBTQI+ Groups etc.)?

Generally I wouldn't be too worried about being murdered - I would report it using the GLEN/TENI report structures. If I felt I needed specialist support from a Garda LGBT Liaison officer I would look for my local one


http://www.glen.ie/stop-lgbt-hate-crime.aspx

http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=771

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/ELO%20LGBT%20as%20of%2026%20MAY%202014.pdf

Annasopra

I didnt get what the OP meant by the Charles Self/Declan Flynn reference initially. Both cases took place in the 1980s. Ireland was a massively different place then. Divorce, Condoms and Gay Male sex were all illegal. Marital rape was legally allowed. I do think we have moved on hugely in 30 years and its unfair to drag up 30 year old cases where there may have been some homophobia from the Gardai. There have been massive improvements since then. The Gardai have received training numerous times from GLEN/TENI/Belong To. There is a network of lgbt liaison officers. These officers do outreach in places like outhouse. The gardai have much more women in the force and their own network of lgbt members.

We dont of course live in an absolutely ideal world but I do think suggesting that the harsh times of the 80s could happen today is not realistic or fair.

Ten of Swords

True but to me it seems like op is trying to gauge the current attitude to AGS and levels of comfort reporting to them.

If you're familiar with the details of the Charles Self case the gardai did themselves no favors in their dealings with gay men at the time and as far as I know the case remains unsolved to this day. They interviewed and fingerprinted nearly 1,500 gay men at Pearse street garda station and it was believed at the time that they were simply compiling dossiers of gay men in Dublin, as a result the community closed ranks and the investigation stalled.

While AGS and state institutions have moved on considerably since then, for the better, the question remains - as a gay person would you feel comfortable reporting homophobic crime to them? Personally, I would but as I said, it depends on the severity of the incident. The wrong attitude is not necessarily a problem AGS have anymore but realistic expectations of what they can achieve and based on what happened is relevant, to reiterate I wouldn't bother with name calling or incidents resulting in no physical harm or property damage but would still record them on the 'stop hate crime' service operated by GLEN

Annasopra

I would report a hate crime to the gardai and I would feel comfortable doing so but I think that I would probably to go through the lgbt liaison officers.

JupiterKid

The 1980s was a different universe. Ireland was a completely different country back then.

Since the 1980s the country has changed beyond all recognition for the better. Ireland is a much more open minded, tolerant and diverse society now. We are not going back to those dark, ignorant, intolerant days of the 1980s.

Annasopra

On the other hand this story if it true it's very worrying about garda inaction

http://theoutmost.com/top-story/warning-gays-vicious-homophobic-attack-phoenix-park/

Fleawuss

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

On the other hand this story if it true it's very worrying about garda inaction

http://theoutmost.com/top-story/warning-gays-vicious-homophobic-attack-phoenix-park/

Garda inaction is to be expected about a lot of crime: they're not going to get involved unless you insist on it. I don't know is it demoralization with the lack of custodial sentences when they get a conviction but it is worrying.

Annasopra

Fleawuss wrote: »

Garda inaction is to be expected about a lot of crime: they're not going to get involved unless you insist on it. I don't know is it demoralization with the lack of custodial sentences when they get a conviction but it is worrying.

I wouldnt expect it with a serious crime like the one described.

Chromosphere

They've a huge issue with inaction across a whole range of crimes. It's largely down to under resourcing and an extremely slow, expensive and cumbersome judicial system.

I had a totally non LGBT related fairly serious incident a few years ago where I had a gun (not sure if it was fake or real) pulled on me by a bunch of guys on the road and I rang 999 and got no follow-up or response

Admittedly, I didn't follow it up either but, it just shows unless you really hammer the point home and keep making complaints about an incident it just drops off the agenda. I don't think it's an anti-LGBTQ stance, it's simply a complete lack of resourcing and probably poor morale too.

Fleawuss

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I wouldnt expect it with a serious crime like the one described.

Me neither but there's a distinct lack of interest in my experience: thankfully not as serious as this.

Nokia6230i

Ten of Swords wrote: »

There are links to the GLEN and TENI sites on the most recent post on the resource links sticky at the top of the forum, as well as a recent-ish list of gardai LGBT liaison officers.

In my opinion the Gardai would be less inclined to actively pursue anything less than criminal damage (keying) or an assault. Their resources are stretched too thin and the culprit will barely get a slap on the wrist. Name calling, wouldn't waste my time or theirs reporting it to guards but would record it on the GLEN site.

This was kind of my point; didn't perhaps express it well (enough)? My bad.

1. I didn't read/see the sticky re GLEN/TENI so again, mea culpa.

2. Totally get your point re not pursuing anything other than criminal damage.

3. Am delighted to hear you WOULD report name calling as an example of homophobia/transphobia to GLEN/TENI.

Main point of my poorly structured (obviously since you & others have struggled in different ways to interpret it; that's my issue not yours) post was to find out were people (on here in any case) aware of who to report incidents of homophobia & transphobia to.

While those reading this thread seem to be, I just wonder how many others out there aren't aware of where to turn regarding "non-criminal" incidents of homophobia & transphobia?

From the distributing of ENAR Ireland/I-Report Leaflets/Fliers/Brochures to minorities and giving talks on who they are, what they do, why its imprtnt. to report incidents to them, I find their knowledge, or lack thereof, worrying.

We don't have Hate Crime Legislation & ENAR are, among so many other groups, incl. aforementioned GLEN/TENI trying to change this.

I suppose I'm flying a kite about how to change this situation within the various communities; will one fix fit all for example?

Minorities of any hue sometimes have their own networks/resources but as many don't.

Really hope this reply is easier to interpret & convey what I was initially trying to & doesn't cloud the issue further.....please revert back in any fashion (DM if reqd.) if I've confused further. Thanks. Bye.

Nokia6230i

J_E wrote: »

I have no idea what those two words even are

Censoring them only increases the power they have when they're used.

You can't really stop incidents like that, but you do have the power to react to them, and I guarantee you they won't expect it if you do. It's very situational though, and it also depends on where it happens. Cities are a lot easier to deal with than towns, rural areas can be either lovely or nasty.

I censored the words because I find them offensive; homophobic which is/was kind of point of my OP.

Will DM you with meanings.....

Nokia6230i

Ten of Swords wrote: »

True but to me it seems like op is trying to gauge the current attitude to AGS and levels of comfort reporting to them.

If you're familiar with the details of the Charles Self case the gardai did themselves no favors in their dealings with gay men at the time and as far as I know the case remains unsolved to this day. They interviewed and fingerprinted nearly 1,500 gay men at Pearse street garda station and it was believed at the time that they were simply compiling dossiers of gay men in Dublin, as a result the community closed ranks and the investigation stalled.

While AGS and state institutions have moved on considerably since then, for the better, the question remains - as a gay person would you feel comfortable reporting homophobic crime to them? Personally, I would but as I said, it depends on the severity of the incident. The wrong attitude is not necessarily a problem AGS have anymore but realistic expectations of what they can achieve and based on what happened is relevant, to reiterate I wouldn't bother with name calling or incidents resulting in no physical harm or property damage but would still record them on the 'stop hate crime' service operated by GLEN

That first line, the top bit that I've bolded?

I wasn't initially no as per my subsequent replies but now that you've broached the subject it would be an interesting one to explore alright.....

With NGOs like GLEN/TENI (and as I've already mentioned tonight ENAR) the reports issued are only what they received & this is where, in another reply I brought up the issue of awareness & tried to tie it all into the issue of lack of Hate Crime Legislation.

While I am aware of training Gda. receive re Ethnic Minorities/LGBT Community etc. (there was a session conducted at end of June...29th I think...see their FB Page for info about it) & that they have an LGBT Group within AGS, there may not be a member of staff trained on all shifts & some members may be less sympathetic than others obviously & this affects how ones report of a crime is treated regarding level of investigation, response rate etc.

Am cognisant (sp?) of resource issues across the board re AGS also.

Regarding the witch-hunt that masqueraded as an investigation into Charles Self murder, while it was a necessary evil to eliminate suspects (or even identify one!) you're right in that it could've been conducted a lot better, more sensitively given the period in question.

People emigrated on basis of being questioned alone; not the fact they were considered possible suspects in a murder, but the fact they'd been outed & legally & morally in this country such a thing was still back then a scandal.

Nokia6230i

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

On the other hand this story if it true it's very worrying about garda inaction

http://theoutmost.com/top-story/warning-gays-vicious-homophobic-attack-phoenix-park/

This was a factor in my initial post yes; I immediately thought of Mr.Self & Mr. Flynn & led me to wonder how this investigation will be conducted.

30 years ago this man may not've reported it at all for obvious reasons.

But 30 years later that the alleged perpetrators still feel this is an ok thing to do to someone because of their orientation?

That's the issue.

Ten of Swords

Nokia6230i wrote: »

I didn't read/see the sticky re GLEN/TENI so again, mea culpa.

Thats fair enough,

Mods, my suggestion is a separate locked sticky showing the GLEN/TENI links and list of gardai and call it something like 'dealing with homophobic or transphobic incidents'. Emphasis on the fact that these reporting services are for any such incidents, even those that may fall below the normal threshold of what you would call the gardai for.

LegacyUser

Yeah, in my local area, I have had threats of violence made against me several times. I am trans and it happens - quite a lot in and around waiting for public transport. On one occasion it felt more menacing than usual - having been made by a youth from a certain minority. Alongside side some charming verbals, I believe the exact words were "Me and the lads are going to give you a serious queer bating".

So I took some advice from someone and went to speak to a Liaison officer, here in Galway, even though as an adult I felt somewhat ridiculous having to report a teenage kid.

Well, anyhow... there was not really much they could do, to be honest. The officer I spoke to, was nice and all, but given the suspected age of the offending party it was likely any direct action taken (i.e: talk to the parents of this exemplary excuse for a human being) would only escalate matters further - so I declined that course. Then the officer inquired into the possibility of my relocating - which was not really a luxury I could afford (like, seriously? Anyone would think I'd actually choose to live in the ass-end of nowhere if I really had a choice). So at the end of this one-on-one, nothing really happened. The officer made some allusions o organizing awareness talks in schools around the area, then a hate crime was recorded in a little black book she kept in a drawer - "for statistics".

but.. yeah.. in relation to this particular type of person, there's little good to be gained by supplying more awareness about the LGBT community.

Well, that was pretty much my experience of reporting a hate-crime.