Cost of diesel may rise....

Leonard Hofstadter

Well according to the Irish Edition of The Times anyway. Looks like Noonan is planning to raise fuel duty on diesel to reach parity with petrol in light of the VW emissions scandal. Of course, since a litre of diesel pollutes 13% more CO2 than a litre of petrol, it still means that diesel is still being favoured over petrol, but it does show that things may be changing even in Ireland as well. I note that this year petrol has again had a (small) increase in market share at diesel's expense, also hybrids are getting ever more popular, something that will surely increase as the years go by...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/noonan-may-raise-duty-on-diesel-over-health-fears-xv0zbvqnt

punisher5112

captainspeed wrote: »

Well according to the Irish Edition of The Times anyway. Looks like Noonan is planning to raise fuel duty on diesel to reach parity with petrol in light of the VW emissions scandal. Of course, since a litre of diesel pollutes 13% more CO2 than a litre of petrol, it still means that diesel is still being favoured over petrol, but it does show that things may be changing even in Ireland as well. I note that this year petrol has again had a (small) increase in market share at diesel's expense, also hybrids are getting ever more popular, something that will surely increase as the years go by...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/noonan-may-raise-duty-on-diesel-over-health-fears-xv0zbvqnt

Anything to raise the tax they never change.

At one point diesel was more expensive with all the tax they added on.

Nothing ever shocks me.

CiniO

captainspeed wrote: »

Well according to the Irish Edition of The Times anyway. Looks like Noonan is planning to raise fuel duty on diesel to reach parity with petrol in light of the VW emissions scandal. Of course, since a litre of diesel pollutes 13% more CO2 than a litre of petrol, it still means that diesel is still being favoured over petrol, but it does show that things may be changing even in Ireland as well. I note that this year petrol has again had a (small) increase in market share at diesel's expense, also hybrids are getting ever more popular, something that will surely increase as the years go by...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/noonan-may-raise-duty-on-diesel-over-health-fears-xv0zbvqnt

From the sound of your post, I kinda get that you are quite happy with what they are planning to do.

What they actually should do it to lower tax on petrol to line up with diesel. Not the opposite as proposed to raise diesel price to match petrol price.

Rising diesel price significently, can only have catastrophic consequences for economy, considering all road haulage bases on it.
It means higher cost of transporting goods and people, which will reflect in increases in prices of food and other things in the shops, increase in cost of bus and train tickets, etc...

We hardly could really hear a worse news that about duty on diesel being raised.

Atlantic Dawn

The ticking time bomb of the vast majority of cars being on the chaaaaaappppppeee tax looms, it must be hitting hard now.

_Kaiser_

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The ticking time bomb of the vast majority of cars being on the chaaaaaappppppeee tax looms, it must be hitting hard now.

More likely they'll just increase the CO2 rates as they did a few years back. Messing with diesel rates will have far wider negative effects.

I wouldn't pay much attention yet. This always happens at this time of year.. kite flying to gauge reactions in advance of the Budget.

VincePP

Its august. Journalists are on holidays. Politicians are on holidays. Even criminals are on holidays The canteen staff write stories for the "News"papers.

During august its best not to believe 90% of the sh1te written in newspapers - especially a British newspaper with a miniscule staff here.

Even a quick read of the article suggests an utter eejit wrote it with absolutley zero checking.

" Petrol costs 58.77c a litre compared with 47.90c for diesel." - local garage to me is charging €1.10 for diesel! Though I do know that those are the duty rates.

Then the article also says "The change would eventually add 11 cents to the price of a litre of diesel." Incorrect - If duty was raised to 58.77c for diesel then the pump price rise would be 13.5c as vat is added. Again, shows this was an intern or possibly the kid of some staffer that wrote the article as if they can't get basics right, you simply cannot believe the story.

Media silly season continues all month - watch for this year's "xxx causes cancer" Usually in the Daily Muck

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Rising diesel price significently, can only have catastrophic consequences for economy, considering all road haulage bases on it.
It means higher cost of transporting goods and people, which will reflect in increases in prices of food and other things in the shops, increase in cost of bus and train tickets, etc...

Didn't they get a €4k motor tax discount in the last budget. Can't be having people earning a living at the expense of our politicians unvouched expenses.

Ronald Wilson Reagan

Don't get the glee at the possible increase in the price of diesel, it will have a knock on effect to the entire economy. The real problem was the screwing around with the motor tax system with the resultant motor industry driven mania for cheap tax.

bear1

captainspeed wrote: »

Well according to the Irish Edition of The Times anyway. Looks like Noonan is planning to raise fuel duty on diesel to reach parity with petrol in light of the VW emissions scandal. Of course, since a litre of diesel pollutes 13% more CO2 than a litre of petrol, it still means that diesel is still being favoured over petrol, but it does show that things may be changing even in Ireland as well. I note that this year petrol has again had a (small) increase in market share at diesel's expense, also hybrids are getting ever more popular, something that will surely increase as the years go by...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/noonan-may-raise-duty-on-diesel-over-health-fears-xv0zbvqnt

The motorist is the cash cow for the Government and it also shows how inept they are at having a fair system in place.
They caused the diesel mess in the first place and now they are thinking of punishing those that took them up on their offer?
Shower of ****es the lot of them.

VincePP

Ronald Wilson Reagan wrote: »

Don't get the glee at the possible increase in the price of diesel, it will have a knock on effect to the entire economy. The real problem was the screwing around with the motor tax system with the resultant motor industry driven mania for cheap tax.

bear1 wrote: »

The motorist is the cash cow for the Government and it also shows how inept they are at having a fair system in place.
They caused the diesel mess in the first place and now they are thinking of punishing those that took them up on their offer?
Shower of ****es the lot of them.

Remember its a dreadfully written newspaper article in silly season when journnalists are on holidays. My gues is that like must stff in the papers this month that its utter rubbish.

Try not get worked up by articles in the media that don't quote any source whatsoever and even get very basic figures wrong.

gctest50

bear1 wrote: »

The motorist is the cash cow for the Government and it also shows how inept they are at having a fair system in place.
They caused the diesel mess in the first place and now they are thinking of punishing those that took them up on their offer?
Shower of ****es the lot of them.

Diesel ?

no no you want the all-new BMW hybrid 330e with nice turbo 2.0 litre petrol

75 mpg

248 horsepower / 310 lb-ft of torque. 0-60 : 5.9 seconds

.

Pretty pathetic to be happy about thousands and thousands of people having to spend more to get to and from work (who may already be struggling), possible job losses in transport industry, increased costs of food (both the haulage element and the cost for farmers to produce), increases in cost of getting building work done (costs of diesel for machinery etc and builders commuting) etc etc etc etc.

VincePP

Wren Putrid Sauna wrote: »

Pretty pathetic to be happy about thousands and thousands of people having to spend more to get to and from work (who may already be struggling), possible job losses in transport industry, increased costs of food (both the haulage element and the cost for farmers to produce), increases in cost of getting building work done (costs of diesel for machinery etc and builders commuting) etc etc etc etc.

Please stop believing the sh1te spouted by unnamed journalists, with absolutely no quoted source.

As i said above, its a silly season non story and probably written by a bored intern being told they must write a story.

How people believe every piece of hysterical crap in newspapers is quite amazing.

Leonard Hofstadter

CiniO wrote: »

captainspeed wrote: »

Well according to the Irish Edition of The Times anyway. Looks like Noonan is planning to raise fuel duty on diesel to reach parity with petrol in light of the VW emissions scandal. Of course, since a litre of diesel pollutes 13% more CO2 than a litre of petrol, it still means that diesel is still being favoured over petrol, but it does show that things may be changing even in Ireland as well. I note that this year petrol has again had a (small) increase in market share at diesel's expense, also hybrids are getting ever more popular, something that will surely increase as the years go by...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/noonan-may-raise-duty-on-diesel-over-health-fears-xv0zbvqnt

From the sound of your post, I kinda get that you are quite happy with what they are planning to do.

What they actually should do it to lower tax on petrol to line up with diesel. Not the opposite as proposed to raise diesel price to match petrol price.

Rising diesel price significently, can only have catastrophic consequences for economy, considering all road haulage bases on it.
It means higher cost of transporting goods and people, which will reflect in increases in prices of food and other things in the shops, increase in cost of bus and train tickets, etc...

We hardly could really hear a worse news that about duty on diesel being raised.

Commercial vehicle tax was massively reduced in last year's budget, so it's not like the Government hasn't done something for hauliers etc. But yes, I do favour higher taxes on diesel in order to encourage more sensible buying habits and increase the number of petrol cars being bought. Many people who are buying diesels have no need for them whatsoever. I would also favour a corresponding reduction in tax on petrol engines, not least because all the people with older pre 2008 petrol cars are well overdue a break as they pay far too much on car tax and lost a packet because the VRT changes meant those people had cars that suddenly became worth SFA. I suspect the chances of a reduction in fuel duty on petrol are nought, as the Government hasn't raised any sort of car-related tax since 2013 (when VRT rates were raised), so unfortunately we are probably overdue some sort of rise....

bear1

So I should be penalised when a diesel only suits my needs due to my driving per year because little old Mary bought a diesel polo to save sweet fcuk all per year?
Bollocks. If they want people to move to petrol then they should educate certain members of the public when a diesel makes sense and when it doesn't.
Do 6k per year? Petrol. Do 20k per year? Diesel.
And then as another poster said reduce the cost of petrol to be in line with diesel and not the other way around.

XR3i

i drink a pint of diesel every morning and it hasn't done me any harm

and its better value than guinness

Alf Veedersane

I would expect the price of diesel to go up, silly season or no.

The swing to diesel cars in the last 15 years or so has had a negative impact in terms of emissions.

Special Circumstances

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I would expect the price of diesel to go up, silly season or no.

The swing to diesel cars in the last 15 years or so has had a negative impact in terms of emissions.

Nein! Diesel ist clean! ;-)

mikeecho

Page 19

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/statistics/ready-reckoner.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjvjdWK6rfOAhUGAsAKHWFRAG0QFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNFln3CWPAvoCYR5AUHwtxTf4V-RVQ&sig2=xZhQVzFuIur1ROinTqwrYA

bear1

Fook that look at page 20!

XR3i

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nein! Diesel ist clean! ;-)

diesel ist sauber :pac:

_Kaiser_

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I would expect the price of diesel to go up, silly season or no.

The swing to diesel cars in the last 15 years or so has had a negative impact in terms of emissions.

It's never been about emissions - the tax changes in 2008 were to prop up the ailing motor "industry", in the same way as we've been lumbered with a ridiculous 1x1/1x2 registration system more recently.

XR3i

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nein! Diesel ist clean! ;-)

ich schlage auch vor; das seid jahre 1997 volkswagen haben kein gutes auto gebaut

I also propose ; have the volkswagen are years in 1997 is not a good car built

Alf Veedersane

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's never been about emissions - the tax changes in 2008 were to prop up the ailing motor "industry", in the same way as we've been lumbered with a ridiculous 1x1/1x2 registration system more recently.

In the past but with emissions targets looming and the need to make electric vehicles more attractive, that will likely mean making petrol, but more so diesel, less attractive.

Esel

ZEV ftw.

Wait - where does that energy come from?

I agree that diesel = bad, in pollution terms.

Sam Kade

bear1 wrote: »

So I should be penalised when a diesel only suits my needs due to my driving per year because little old Mary bought a diesel polo to save sweet fcuk all per year?
Bollocks. If they want people to move to petrol then they should educate certain members of the public when a diesel makes sense and when it doesn't.
Do 6k per year? Petrol. Do 20k per year? Diesel.
And then as another poster said reduce the cost of petrol to be in line with diesel and not the other way around.

I have a 1.8L petrol and do 25k/year, it still works out the same as diesel.

shietpilot

Sam Kade wrote: »

I have a 1.8L petrol and do 25k/year, it still works out the same as diesel.

I highly doubt that :rolleyes:

bear1

Sam Kade wrote: »

I have a 1.8L petrol and do 25k/year, it still works out the same as diesel.

Works out the same as diesel in which sense? MPG or cost?

Esel

ROI, maybe?

nice_guy80

Ronald Wilson Reagan wrote: »

Don't get the glee at the possible increase in the price of diesel, it will have a knock on effect to the entire economy. The real problem was the screwing around with the motor tax system with the resultant motor industry driven mania for cheap tax.

agreed

the tax bands are ridiculous.

I'd be all for the tax being scrapped at the cost put onto the fuel.
that way the bigger road users pay more in tax

Special Circumstances

nice_guy80 wrote: »

agreed

the tax bands are ridiculous.

I'd be all for the tax being scrapped at the cost put onto the fuel.
that way the bigger road users pay more in tax

But how will we encourage people to increase actual pollution then????


Tax Revisions Boost Sales of Green Cars

The government’s revision of the road tax and VRT system based around CO2 emissions appears to be having the desired effect.

According to the latest ‘Energy in Transport’ report from Sustainable Energy Ireland (SEI), private car sales in the most efficient emission bands jumped from 43 percent to 73 percent after the introduction of new VRT rates. The majority of this shift was down to consumers moving to diesel-fuelled cars, as opposed to smaller-engined petrol cars. Between the first and second half of 2008, diesel cars doubled their share of sales, and accounted for 56 percent of all new car sales in the first half of 2009. Dr Brian Motherway, SEI head of strategy, said transport was “a huge fuel user, accounting for more than one-third of Ireland’s total primary energy demand.” He said the car tax changes had altered car-buying patterns.

The Green Party’s transport spokesman Ciarán Cuffe said, “The SEI report shows that green policies do work. As a direct result of changes made by Environment Minister John Gormley to car tax and VRT, consumers have modified their behaviour and turned to fuel-efficient cars.”

It's amazing really. How much diesel is sold compared to petrol now? If it's 3:1 then they could lower petrol by 12c and raise diesel by 4c and it'd be neutral.

Special Circumstances

Sorry if my endless quoting of Green Party and German car manufacturers "diesel ist gut, ja, diesel is sehr clean" line is tiring people.

Unfortunately it won't stop until the Green Party admit diesel isn't actually very good or clean. And that advocating it at all brings their judgement on all sorts of scientific environmental matters into serious question.

keyboard_cat

captainspeed wrote: »

Well according to the Irish Edition of The Times anyway. Looks like Noonan is planning to raise fuel duty on diesel to reach parity with petrol in light of the VW emissions scandal. Of course, since a litre of diesel pollutes 13% more CO2 than a litre of petrol, it still means that diesel is still being favoured over petrol, but it does show that things may be changing even in Ireland as well. I note that this year petrol has again had a (small) increase in market share at diesel's expense, also hybrids are getting ever more popular, something that will surely increase as the years go by...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/noonan-may-raise-duty-on-diesel-over-health-fears-xv0zbvqnt

but you get considerably more mileage for 1L of fuel so id assume mile for mile diesel pollutes less then petrol unless there is something i am missing.

Esel

keyboard_cat wrote: »

but you get considerably more mileage for 1L of fuel so id assume mile for mile diesel pollutes less then petrol unless there is something i am missing.

NOX or whatever they call it.

Special Circumstances

keyboard_cat wrote: »

id assume mile for mile diesel pollutes less then petrol unless there is something i am missing.

... the pollution is what you're missing.

Sam Kade

shietpilot wrote: »

I highly doubt that :rolleyes:

bear1 wrote: »

Works out the same as diesel in which sense? MPG or cost?

Petrol cars are cheaper to buy, less maintainence and last longer. Buying a diesel to get an extra 10 mpg doesn't save money in the long run. Yes I have owned plenty cars both diesel and petrol.

bear1

Sam Kade wrote: »

Petrol cars are cheaper to buy, less maintainence and last longer. Buying a diesel to get an extra 10 mpg doesn't save money in the long run. Yes I have owned plenty cars both diesel and petrol.

To be fair, the petrol cars of today require just as much maintenance as the diesels and are probably just as delicate with all the fuel saving technology they need. Parts may be cheaper than diesel.
Lasting longer? How do you work that out?

robbie99

Deleted User wrote: »

It's amazing really. How much diesel is sold compared to petrol now? If it's 3:1 then they could lower petrol by 12c and raise diesel by 4c and it'd be neutral.

It's 2:1. You could lower petrol by 10c and raise diesel 5c for it to be revenue neutral. (source: extrapolated from http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/statistics/ready-reckoner.pdf)

But government won't do that. They'll raise diesel now to match the petrol price then in a few years time raise the petrol price for some other environmental reason.

bear1

Perhaps the government should focus on providing the entire country with an appropriate transport system to encourage people to stop using the car instead of not providing us with a good transport system and then fleecing us when we need to use our cars due to lack of choice.

whiterebel

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Sorry if my endless quoting of Green Party and German car manufacturers "diesel ist gut, ja, diesel is sehr clean" line is tiring people.

Unfortunately it won't stop until the Green Party admit diesel isn't actually very good or clean. And that advocating it at all brings their judgement on all sorts of scientific environmental matters into serious question.

Cuffe did this evening on Matt Cooper.They were duped because the car manufacturers lied.......

Atlantic Dawn

whiterebel wrote: »

Cuffe did this evening on Matt Cooper.They were duped because the car manufacturers lied.......

Duped yes but also have a national car test that beyond visible check doesn't measure any of the emissions coming from any diesel cars, a complete head in the sand approach.

Special Circumstances

whiterebel wrote: »

Cuffe did this evening on Matt Cooper.They were duped because the car manufacturers lied.......

Holeee fudge I need a transcript of this!

mikeecho

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Holeee fudge I need a transcript of this!

Podcast....
I'll be downloading it.. should be worth a giggle

Special Circumstances

mikeecho wrote: »

Podcast....
I'll be downloading it.. should be worth a giggle

You'd wonder what else they just believe in without any attempt at critical thinking. Does the ongoing pathetic diesel emission test regime indicate that they really did believe diesel was clean because they were told? "Ja das ist der clean soot, das ist gut for you"

Wildly Boaring

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Holeee fudge I need a transcript of this!

Pretty sure he also made reference to the Dept of Finance changing the car tax in 2008. Rather than Gormley who was Minster for Environment and actually responsible for the whole debacle

There were 4 people talking. Hard to make out exactly who said what

Markcheese

To be fair car sales fell off a cliff in 08 because the country fell off a cliff.
people who got low co2 cars, paid less for them,paid less tax,and used less fuel .... what's the whingeing about..?
I have no problem with the tax on diesel being the same as petrol ... (I'd rather price came down)
I was surprised that revenue didnt announce how much motor tax they wanted and tweak the rates to make a rated cars cheapest...

Sam Kade

bear1 wrote: »

To be fair, the petrol cars of today require just as much maintenance as the diesels and are probably just as delicate with all the fuel saving technology they need. Parts may be cheaper than diesel.
Lasting longer? How do you work that out?

From experience. If you drive both types long enough with high mileage.

bear1

Sam Kade wrote: »

From experience. If you drive both types long enough with high mileage.

In my experience diesel has lasted just as long as petrol.

Pugzilla

The diesel engine is an abomination that has been misused. Majority of diesel cars don't do enough mileage to warrant having one.

Leonard Hofstadter

bear1 wrote: »

In my experience diesel has lasted just as long as petrol.

Petrols can definitely last a long time with proper maintenance. There is a 2005 Avensis with 185,000 miles on the clock in the family, it's been in the family since new, although it has been burning a bit of oil for the past 20-30k miles, the engine has never missed a beat, indeed the last time it was tested at the NCT the emissions were almost 0 for HCs and COs and the lambda was exactly 1, so by any standards that's good going.