Anyway to find out if someone got sent down?

zurbfoundation

A family member has a house let to a chap, no sign of activity there lately and I am led to believe that this man seriously assaulted another man maybe 6 months back. I'm thinking he's been sent to prison. Is there anyway of finding out?

Kimbot

TBH the only way you could really find out is if it is in the public domain already.... i.e. its in the papers/on the news etc.

zurbfoundation

jonnycivic wrote: »

TBH the only way you could really find out is if it is in the public domain already.... i.e. its in the papers/on the news etc.

Thanks - nothing I can see in the local rag. Maybe he's on holidays eh :-)

Mrs OBumble

Why do you need to know? Providing the rent is paid, your family member has got no reason for evicting him. The tenant getting a criminal conviction is not an allowed reason for terminating a lease, AFAIK. The only possible reason is if the lease contains a clause saying that the LL must be notified if the house is empty for 30 days or more - and even then, the LL would have to prove that it was not lived in in order to evict on that basis.

Of course the insurance situation could be challenging. The insurance company would expect to be told if a person living in a house gets a significant conviction. i don't know if they're allowed to withdraw cover on that basis in this country (am aware of it happening overseas).

Pat Mustard

zurbfoundation wrote: »

A family member has a house let to a chap, no sign of activity there lately and I am led to believe that this man seriously assaulted another man maybe 6 months back. I'm thinking he's been sent to prison. Is there anyway of finding out?

I would get try to have a quiet and informal word with a known and friendly Garda about this man's disappearance. If you have the man's date of birth or if you can get hold of his date of birth, it may be useful.

GerardKeating

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I would get try to have a quiet and informal word with a known and friendly Garda about this man's disappearance. If you have the man's date of birth or if you can get hold of his date of birth, it may be useful.

Would this not be a criminal offense, for both the OP and the member concerned?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Incognito

GerardKeating wrote: »

Would this not be a criminal offense, for both the OP and the member concerned?

It would- do not do this.

The Guards are really horriffic in this country and leaking things to the press.

Pat Mustard

GerardKeating wrote: »

Would this not be a criminal offense, for both the OP and the member concerned?

Is it? People ask Gardai all sorts of things, every day of the week and you never see anything in the newspapers about it.

ohnonotgmail

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is it? People ask Gardai all sorts of things, every day of the week and you never see anything in the newspapers about it.

presumably you think the OP should ask a friendly guard to check if the tenant has been sentenced to prison. as this would involve the guard accessing data without a valid reason it could lead to the guard facing a disciplinary charge.

Pat Mustard

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

presumably you think the OP should ask a friendly guard to check if the tenant has been sentenced to prison. as this would involve the guard accessing data without a valid reason it could lead to the guard facing a disciplinary charge.

If the Garda cannot access the data without facing a disciplinary charge, I presume that he would simply decline to do so.

Mr. Incognito

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is it? People ask Gardai all sorts of things, every day of the week and you never see anything in the newspapers about it.

Don't know what papers you read.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/garda-faces-further-charges-of-disclosing-information-1.2670494

http://www.thejournal.ie/roma-case-garda-arrested-2129658-May2015/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-interviewed-over-leaks-to-media-1.2497377

http://www.herald.ie/news/senior-garda-is-arrested-after-probe-into-alleged-leaks-to-media-31260331.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/garda-seeks-to-halt-media-leak-inquiry-1.2554850

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garda-charged-with-disclosing-information-and-having-drugs-393163.html

Smondie

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why do you need to know? Providing the rent is paid, your family member has got no reason for evicting him. The tenant getting a criminal conviction is not an allowed reason for terminating a lease, AFAIK. The only possible reason is if the lease contains a clause saying that the LL must be notified if the house is empty for 30 days or more - and even then, the LL would have to prove that it was not lived in in order to evict on that basis.

Of course the insurance situation could be challenging. The insurance company would expect to be told if a person living in a house gets a significant conviction. i don't know if they're allowed to withdraw cover on that basis in this country (am aware of it happening overseas).

The insurance company?


Should I be informing them if my tenant has a conviction. Is that not a breech of tenants privacy. How am I supposed to know thier criminal history, should grads clearance be required by landlords for all tenants. Could the insurance withdraw coverage on this basis ?


I've never heard of this.

L1011

There's a difference between asking a Garda what they may know already vs. them looking it up on PULSE in terms of illegality of access. Most of those cases relate to unauthorised access to and revealing of data from PULSE.

ohnonotgmail

Pat Mustard wrote: »

If the Garda cannot access the data without facing a disciplinary charge, I presume that he would simply decline to do so.

you would be asking the guard to divulge information on the criminal convictions of a third party. you know they cannot do this so why suggest to the OP that they ask?

Pat Mustard

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Don't know what papers you read.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/garda-faces-further-charges-of-disclosing-information-1.2670494

http://www.thejournal.ie/roma-case-garda-arrested-2129658-May2015/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-interviewed-over-leaks-to-media-1.2497377

http://www.herald.ie/news/senior-garda-is-arrested-after-probe-into-alleged-leaks-to-media-31260331.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/garda-seeks-to-halt-media-leak-inquiry-1.2554850

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garda-charged-with-disclosing-information-and-having-drugs-393163.html

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you would be asking the guard to divulge information on the criminal convictions of a third party. you know they cannot do this so why suggest to the OP that they ask?

If I ask a Garda about my missing tenant, am I committing a criminal offence?

ohnonotgmail

Pat Mustard wrote: »

If I ask a Garda about my missing tenant, am I committing a criminal offence?

you would not be but the Guard would if he gave you a response. I never said the person asking would be committing an offence.

Mr. Incognito

Pat Mustard wrote: »

If I ask a Garda about my missing tenant, am I committing a criminal offence?

That's a very bizarre example to cite. In what context.

"Well Garda, the tenant with whom I have a contractual relationship has disappeared and owes me money- Can you see where he is gone?"

Are you reporting a missing person, theft (although its a civil contractual debt so they wont get involved)

I think you just need to concede the point that seeking personal information from a guard is a breach of data proteciton, breach of their statutory duties and illegal.

Whilst it is probably an Irish thing of ah sure it'll be grand, the law is the law.

Pat Mustard

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That's a very bizarre example to cite. In what context.

The OP

zurbfoundation wrote: »

A family member has a house let to a chap, no sign of activity there lately

dr.fuzzenstein

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That's a very bizarre example to cite. In what context.

"Well Garda, the tenant with whom I have a contractual relationship has disappeared and owes me money- Can you see where he is gone?"

Are you reporting a missing person, theft (although its a civil contractual debt so they wont get involved)

I think you just need to concede the point that seeking personal information from a guard is a breach of data proteciton, breach of their statutory duties and illegal.

Whilst it is probably an Irish thing of ah sure it'll be grand, the law is the law.

Erm, isn't that what this, ehm thread is about, maybe?
I'm guessing asking is not illegal in itself. Maybe OP shouldn't ask for personal info, but to look into the matter.

ganmo

ah lads don't bother with the garda
ask the postman!

godtabh

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why do you need to know? Providing the rent is paid, your family member has got no reason for evicting him. The tenant getting a criminal conviction is not an allowed reason for terminating a lease, AFAIK. The only possible reason is if the lease contains a clause saying that the LL must be notified if the house is empty for 30 days or more - and even then, the LL would have to prove that it was not lived in in order to evict on that basis.

Of course the insurance situation could be challenging. The insurance company would expect to be told if a person living in a house gets a significant conviction. i don't know if they're allowed to withdraw cover on that basis in this country (am aware of it happening overseas).

Insurance. If the house is unoccupied for more than 30 days (in a lot of cases) insurance becomes void.

Pro Hoc Vice

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is it? People ask Gardai all sorts of things, every day of the week and you never see anything in the newspapers about it.

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/sacked-garda-who-leaked-confidential-information-to-be-sentenced/

Mrs OBumble

Smondie wrote: »

The insurance company?


Should I be informing them if my tenant has a conviction. Is that not a breech of tenants privacy. How am I supposed to know thier criminal history, should grads clearance be required by landlords for all tenants. Could the insurance withdraw coverage on this basis ?


I've never heard of this.

I don't know about the situation in this country.

But in the country where I own a house "do you have any criminal convictions" is a standard part of the insurance screening questions. And policies clearly say that you must inform the insurance company if any person living there gets a conviction. I've heard of cover being refused because of the nature of the convictions held by an owner.

In that country, a police vetting isn't required for a tenancy. But self declaration is expected (ie LL or agent should ask the question).

blackwhite

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why do you need to know? Providing the rent is paid, your family member has got no reason for evicting him. The tenant getting a criminal conviction is not an allowed reason for terminating a lease, AFAIK. The only possible reason is if the lease contains a clause saying that the LL must be notified if the house is empty for 30 days or more - and even then, the LL would have to prove that it was not lived in in order to evict on that basis.

Of course the insurance situation could be challenging. The insurance company would expect to be told if a person living in a house gets a significant conviction. i don't know if they're allowed to withdraw cover on that basis in this country (am aware of it happening overseas).

Most property insurance policies have clauses about the property being unoccupied for a significant period of time.

Smondie

blackwhite wrote: »

Most property insurance policies have clauses about the property being unoccupied for a significant period of time.

Buy it's not technically unoccupied. There is a tenant, the landlord is just not privy to his movements. The landlord is receiving Rent.

blackwhite

Smondie wrote: »

Buy it's not technically unoccupied. There is a tenant, the landlord is just not privy to his movements. The landlord is receiving Rent.

Whether or not the property is being rented is irrelevent to whether it is physically occupied or not.
The landlord is in receipt of cash, but cannot verify if the property is currently actually occupied or not.

If, for example, there was a break-in and the landlord's property stolen and the insurance company subsequently discovered that the tenant was serving a jail sentence, then they may try to refuse cover (depending on the insurance contract).

Smondie

blackwhite wrote: »

Whether or not the property is being rented is irrelevent to whether it is physically occupied or not.
The landlord is in receipt of cash, but cannot verify if the property is currently actually occupied or not.

If, for example, there was a break-in and the landlord's property stolen and the insurance company subsequently discovered that the tenant was serving a jail sentence, then they may try to refuse cover (depending on the insurance contract).

Would requiring the landlord to keep track of his tenants movements not be breaching the tenants right to privacy?
The landlord was not informed by anyone. It's an interesting scenario.

How would this work for landlords who live overseas or properties owned by companies?

blackwhite

Smondie wrote: »

Would requiring the landlord to keep track of his tenants movements not be breaching the tenants right to privacy?
The landlord was not informed by anyone. It's an interesting scenario.

How would this work for landlords who live overseas or properties owned by companies?

Not my problem, or the problem of the insurance company.

If the landlord takes out a policy that includes a representation that the house/apartment will be occupied, then the coverage can be refused if he fails to disclose any changes from that - and it's his responsibility to be aware of any changes.

How he keeps himself informed is irrelevent to the insurance company - if he breaches the conditions then that's his problem, not theirs.

Smondie

blackwhite wrote: »

Not my problem, or the problem of the insurance company.

If the landlord takes out a policy that includes a representation that the house/apartment will be occupied, then the coverage can be refused if he fails to disclose any changes from that - and it's his responsibility to be aware of any changes.

How he keeps himself informed is irrelevent to the insurance company - if he breaches the conditions then that's his problem, not theirs.

If he doesn't know of any changes how can he disclose it.

If he is recieving rent there is nothing that flags up the issue for him. The house is occupied. The amount of time the tenant spends in the house is not the landlords concern.

I could rent a house and spend every night at my girlfriend's address. I am still a tenant in my rented house and the rented house is still occupied by me.

Pro Hoc Vice

blackwhite wrote: »

Not my problem, or the problem of the insurance company.

If the landlord takes out a policy that includes a representation that the house/apartment will be occupied, then the coverage can be refused if he fails to disclose any changes from that - and it's his responsibility to be aware of any changes.

How he keeps himself informed is irrelevent to the insurance company - if he breaches the conditions then that's his problem, not theirs.

<<Mod deletion>>. In insurance law the issue is upmost good faith there is no requirement on LL to know where the tenant is, once he is aware the matter changes.

blackwhite

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

. In insurance law the issue is upmost good faith there is no requirement on LL to know where the tenant is, once he is aware the matter changes.

And in this case the landlord has reason to suspect that there has been a change of circumstances.

Pro Hoc Vice

blackwhite wrote: »

And in this case the landlord has reason to suspect that there has been a change of circumstances.

And the landlord has no legal way of finding out unless he gets a buddy to divulge information from Pulse if the LL has public information that's one thing to actively break the law is another.

4ensic15

The landlord may be able to read the ESB meter from outside. A few readings should indicate whether or not the house is occupied.

zurbfoundation

I live nearby - there are no signs of activity at the house for some weeks now - he is not there. Reading meters etc. is not relevant as I am sure he's not there, I am curious to know if he has been jailed for a recent serious assault he is alleged to have committed.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why do you need to know?

For the safety of me and my family who have to deal with this individual, its not just a case of rent rolling in, tenants call you up and ask for things in the house to be sorted. Have already had tradesmen insisting he is not there when they do the work

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is it? People ask Gardai all sorts of things, every day of the week and you never see anything in the newspapers about it.

It was a Garda that informed me of the alleged assault by this chap (it took place on and outside the premises)

I am not sure what all the insurance posts have to do with it - I am trying to discover information that i believe is probably in the public domain (newspapers report court sentences regularly)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

zurbfoundation

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

yes -

Shint0

I'm not sure there is anything you can do legally. If a current tenant is engaging in anti-social behaviour you can make an application to the the PRTB under the Residential Tenancies Act to have them evicted but if the rent is being paid and they are not even around it wouldn't fall under that. You can't really penalise someone for an act they may commit in the future although I understand you are concerned and would like to know the state of play.

In the event the rent was not being paid and you feel the property is vacated then you pin a note on the door asking them to contact you. If they don't make contact within a reasonable period and rent is still unpaid the tenancy can be terminated.

4ensic15

Shint0 wrote: »

In the event the rent was not being paid and you feel the property is vacated then you pin a note on the door asking them to contact you. If they don't make contact within a reasonable period and rent is still unpaid the tenancy can be terminated.

RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004
(2) Subject to subsection (3), a Part 4 tenancy shall also be deemed to have been terminated by the tenant upon any rent owed by him or her being in arrears for a period of 28 days or more if—

(a) whether before or after the end of that period, the tenant has vacated the dwelling, and

(b) no notice of termination has been served by the tenant in respect of the tenancy.



Nothing about notices no the door or reasonable periods.

Shint0

4ensic15 wrote: »

RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004
(2) Subject to subsection (3), a Part 4 tenancy shall also be deemed to have been terminated by the tenant upon any rent owed by him or her being in arrears for a period of 28 days or more if—

(a) whether before or after the end of that period, the tenant has vacated the dwelling, and

(b) no notice of termination has been served by the tenant in respect of the tenancy.



Nothing about notices no the door or reasonable periods.

The point of the notice on the door is to ensure the tenant receives the notice if all other attempts to contact them have failed. This is advised and considered good practice within the sector where a tenant might claim a landlord didn't adhere to proper procedures and just took back possession of the property.

Regardless of a tenancy being deemed to have been terminated under the Act a tenant might not move out and can't be forcibly removed. In this case the OP doesn't know the whereabouts of the tenant who might show up again in the near future with a key in their possession and the OP hasn't made it clear from what I understand if rent is still being paid or not or how much time has elapsed. If any case were to be taken against the OP they need to be able to show that they made all reasonable attempts to contact the tenant and removing their property from the premises; hence the note on the door which is advised.

chillin117

Pat Mustard wrote: »

If the Garda cannot access the data without facing a disciplinary charge, I presume that he would simply decline to do so.

Mod
Advice regarding AGS entitlement to use PULSE deleted.
Probably illegal and certainly inadvisable.
May lead to Gárda being disciplined and/or prosecuted

Esel

<<post deleted>>

Try to keep up...