Protestors outside Limerick Family Planning Clinic, Mallow Street

Parchment

I have noticed that there are a group of men (ugh) holding a vigil/praying on Mallow Street opposite the Family Planning Clinic. The group is made up of up to five men, two wear monk-like clothes. They pray out loud sometimes. I see them on varying days but they are pretty much always there on a Saturday morning.

Its obvious why they are there. I have challenged them on it a few times but they had no reply.

Can anything be done about it? I guess they are not right outside it but its definitely intimidating for anyone attending the clinic for whatever reason.

panda100

Parchment wrote: »

I have noticed that there are a group of men (ugh) holding a vigil/praying on Mallow Street opposite the Family Planning Clinic. The group is made up of up to five men, two wear monk-like clothes. They pray out loud sometimes. I see them on varying days but they are pretty much always there on a Saturday morning.

Its obvious why they are there. I have challenged them on it a few times but they had no reply.

Can anything be done about it? I guess they are not right outside it but its definitely intimidating for anyone attending the clinic for whatever reason.

There has been a couple of counter demo's to them in the past but that's usually when Youth Defence are in town. It's disgraceful the carry on of these individuals but imo they are best ignored. The Family Planning clinic is an essential service to women in Limerick and the staff should be commended for carrying on their good work with these pathetic men on their doorstep.

There are also a couple of older men who go around town throwing miraculous medals in the gutters of the city's sex shops :rolleyes:

VikingG

While I may not agree with their view points people (even men) should be allowed to protest as long as they do not interfere with others..

Parchment

VikingG wrote: »

While I may not agree with their view points people (even men) should be allowed to protest as long as they do not interfere with others..

i think if you are opposed to people seeking medical treatment/advice you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

A bunch of men standing judging and intimidating women (and men) who attend a clinic for medical assistance is interfering with others.

tanit

Parchment wrote: »

i think if you are opposed to people seeking medical treatment/advice you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

A bunch of men standing judging and intimidating women (and men) who attend a clinic for medical assistance is interfering with others.

Democracy means that everyone regardless of opinion is entitled to express their views so long as they do it in a peaceful, civilized and democratic manner. You cannot prohibit or forbid anyone on the bases that you disagree with them. Whether you like it or not those are the rules of the game, they are there to allow everyone in a society to express their views regardless of whether they are a minority or not. Those rules are there to protect minorities.

I work in the area and I see the people you are talking about every now and then. They are not threatening in any way and they are usually on the other side of the road. They never stay long. I don't think I have ever seen more than 20 minutes around and they people in the clinic are aware of them. I have never seen approach anyone entering the place or follow anyone entering the place or doing anything remotely similar.

Please just be rational and don't let your fears or other people's fears affect what it is just a disagreement of views

If you must know I completely disagree with them, regardless I respect and try to follow democratic rules in that and similar issues

So long as they don't break the law let them be and they are not breaking any law

phog

Parchment wrote: »

i think if you are opposed to people seeking medical treatment/advice you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

A bunch of men standing judging and intimidating women (and men) who attend a clinic for medical assistance is interfering with others.

Most protests interfer with others in one way or the other - should all protests be banned or just ones you disagree with?

um7y1h83ge06nx

I would strongly disagree with what they are protesting about but would support their right to protest - once they keep it peaceful and lawful.

Wanting to ban protests is a slippery slope.

fryup

Parchment wrote: »

I have noticed that there are a group of men (ugh) holding a vigil/praying on Mallow Street opposite the Family Planning Clinic. The group is made up of up to five men, two wear monk-like clothes. They pray out loud sometimes. I see them on varying days but they are pretty much always there on a Saturday morning.

celibate monks & priests telling people what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies :rolleyes:

i thought we've gone beyond that nonsense

do people still take heed of what they say?? i hope not

bazz26

washman3

Wonder have they ever protested outside the Bishop's Palace....

zulutango

I guess it comes down to what constitutes intimidation, doesn't it?

I can see both points of view. If it's a case of some people mumbling to their imaginary deity across the road, I don't see a problem. If they're blocking people from going in and being aggressive, it's something else entirely.

Where does the law stand on this kind of thing?

phog

zulutango wrote: »

I guess it comes down to what constitutes intimidation, doesn't it?

I can see both points of view. If it's a case of some people mumbling to their imaginary deity across the road, I don't see a problem. If they're blocking people from going in and being aggressive, it's something else entirely.

Where does the law stand on this kind of thing?

If they're at the same side of the road but not agressive then surely that's ok too?

gctest50

phog wrote: »

If they're at the same side of the road but not agressive then surely that's ok too?

It's intimidation

5 men, a few dressed up as monks :

Parchment wrote: »

...... The group is made up of up to five men, two wear monk-like clothes. They pray out loud sometimes.

They don't have to say anything or be aggressive - if there was 5 men standing on the road just outside your house all the time I doubt anyone be too happy

phog

gctest50 wrote: »

It's intimidation

5 men, a few dressed up as monks :



They don't have to say anything or be aggressive - if there was 5 men standing on the road just outside your house all the time I doubt anyone be too happy

Is it tho? Are people intimidated passing people outside a pub having a smoke. Should that also be banned?

Where is line drawn wrt protests - should they be allowed at all?

gctest50

phog wrote: »

Is it tho? Are people intimidated passing people outside a pub having a smoke. Should that also be banned?

Where is line drawn wrt protests - should they be allowed at all?

Good point, if this lad and his ISIS mates were just standing outside your local, no guns, just standing there, would you be bit concerned ?

ISIS :

um7y1h83ge06nx

May as well just ban all public gatherings so.

magma69

Parchment wrote: »

i think if you are opposed to people seeking medical treatment/advice you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

A bunch of men standing judging and intimidating women (and men) who attend a clinic for medical assistance is interfering with others.

They are obviously cúnts, but you're going to have to expand on your claims of intimidation on their part.

Are they threatening these people with violence or something?

Smondie

They should be allowed protest peacefully.


Abortion is an issue that affects men too. Many men have had thier babies aborted without thier knowledge or consent. Abortion is not just a women's issue no matter how loudly that's roared by some quarters

gctest50

Smondie wrote: »

They should be allowed protest peacefully.


Abortion is an issue that affects men too. Many men have had thier babies aborted without thier knowledge or consent. Abortion is not just a women's issue no matter how loudly that's roared by some quarters

What has abortion to do with it ?

Family Planning Clinic are hardly performing them ?

Smondie

gctest50 wrote: »

What has abortion to do with it ?

Family Planning Clinic are hardly performing them ?

No but they give information on them. I persume this is the motivation for the protests?

Counsellors also provide accurate, honest and clear information about all three pregnancy options – abortion, parenting and adoption.

http://www.limerickfamilyplanning.ie/counselling-services/




Regardless, they have a right to peaceful protest.

Smondie

gctest50 wrote: »

You left out where they provide free smear tests :




if you've some woman a bit anxious about a smear test, then 5 nutters standing around outside could be enough to send her home again and she wouldn't get it done in time

Sooner you catch potential signs of cancer, the better

Well if 5 nutters standing outside stop her getting her health checked, she mustn't care that much about getting her health checked.

People have the right to protest peacefully, simple as that really.

Parchment

magma69 wrote: »

They are obviously cúnts, but you're going to have to expand on your claims of intimidation on their part.

Are they threatening these people with violence or something?

I cant imagine being a woman who was religious, had a miscarriage and went to the clinic for medical attention and saw a bunch of "monks" (are they actually monks?) and men praying across the road when i was already going through a traumatic time.

I get why people are saying they have a right to protest but take a step back and look at what they are protesting? Medical attention. Thats not right.

To men who say abortion isn't purely a womans issue - get back to me when you get pregnant.

gctest50

Smondie wrote: »

No but they give information on them. I persume this is the motivation for the protests?

Counsellors also provide accurate, honest and clear information about all three pregnancy options – abortion, parenting and adoption.

http://www.limerickfamilyplanning.ie/counselling-services/

Regardless, they have a right to peaceful protest.

You left out where they provide free smear tests :

In conjunction with ICSP (Irish Cervical Screening Programme), we are offering a free smear service

http://www.limerickfamilyplanning.ie/womens-health/

if you've some woman a bit anxious about a smear test, then 5 nutters standing around outside could be enough to send her home again a

Then she may not get it done in time

Sooner you catch potential signs of cancer, the better

http://www.ncri.ie/sites/ncri/files/factsheets/FACTSHEET_cervix_2.pdf

tanit

If it helps I have never seen them cross the street, they pray and go. The people in the Clinic know about them. There is some kind of "protest" once a year, it lasts 30 minutes they chant slogans loudly and they go. The rest of the time they just do the praying thing and all that from across the street.

If they were threatening in anyway the Family Clinic would've call the Garda. If you don't believe the description I'm giving you take that as proof that they are not threatening or done anything beyond reasonable. I don't support them in anyway but they have the right and it's perfectly safe to be around them

Like many people working and moving through that area just find it a bit amusing. I'm more concerned about the people living around the corner that usually sleep all day. When they come out of "hibernation" during the day there's been several times there was a need to call the garda and I wouldn't be surprised if the garda have come for those a couple of times. Of those ones I worry more than the protestors

riverrocked

Smondie wrote: »

They should be allowed protest peacefully.


Abortion is an issue that affects men too. Many men have had thier babies aborted without thier knowledge or consent. Abortion is not just a women's issue no matter how loudly that's roared by some quarters

The FPC provides services that prevent abortions by preventing pregnancy in the first place (condoms, the pill, the coil etc.,) as well as health checks.

If these men have an issue with information about abortion being supplied to women then they should start protesting UPC as I just did a cursory search of google and could find all the information I would need to get an abortion in England including how much it would cost and how to apply.

Smondie

riverrocked wrote: »

The FPC provides services that prevent abortions by preventing pregnancy in the first place (condoms, the pill, the coil etc.,) as well as health checks.

If these men have an issue with information about abortion being supplied to women then they should start protesting UPC as I just did a cursory search of google and could find all the information I would need to get an abortion in England including how much it would cost and how to apply.

They have the freedom to protest peacefully whatever and wherever they like!

riverrocked

Smondie wrote: »

They have the freedom to protest peacefully whatever and wherever they like!

Chill out! you'll do yourself some damage with that rage. I never said they couldn't just gave a suggestion as to where else they could protest if they were really concerned about women getting information on abortion.

Insect Overlord

Smondie wrote: »

They should be allowed protest peacefully.

Smondie wrote: »

Regardless, they have a right to peaceful protest.

Smondie wrote: »

Well if 5 nutters standing outside stop her getting her health checked, she mustn't care that much about getting her health checked.

People have the right to protest peacefully, simple as that really.

Smondie wrote: »

They have the freedom to protest peacefully whatever and wherever they like!

Maybe if you say so four more times everyone will start to agree with you...

Smondie

riverrocked wrote: »

Chill out! you'll do yourself some damage with that rage. I never said they couldn't just gave a suggestion as to where else they could protest if they were really concerned about women getting information on abortion.

No rage in my post. just stating a fact. I only replied because you quoted me.

The can do usc if they like too!

An File wrote: »

Maybe if you say so four more times everyone will start to agree with you...

I didn't know I wasn't allowed to answer questions I was asked and reply to posters. Thanks for the information.

riverrocked

Technically though they don't "have a right to peaceful protest" no matter how many times someone might want to say that they do.

Now they have the right to a "peaceful assembly" but not a protest. I know it is semantics but if a Garda was to ask them what they were doing and they said they were holding a "peaceful protest" then they can be arrested under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994 as they are in breach of the peace, as that is the essence of a protest.

gctest50

maybe a dose of this :

9.—Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £200.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/2/section/9/enacted/en/html

or maybe this :

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—


(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or


(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,


the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:


(i) desist from acting in such a manner, and


(ii) leave immediately the vicinity of the place concerned in a peaceable or orderly manner.


(2) It shall be an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with a direction given by a member of the Garda Síochána under this section.


(3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.


www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/2/section/8/enacted/en/html

bound to be more ianal

fryup

i wonder would they protest outside this man's house

be more appropriate don't you think

bennyl10

Smondie wrote: »

They have the freedom to protest peacefully whatever and wherever they like!

Not under Irish law they don't!!

No matter how much shouting "peaceful protest" Seems to make people think they can do whatever they want!

phog

Parchment wrote: »

To men who say abortion isn't purely a womans issue - get back to me when you get pregnant.

Any person regardless of their sex can hold the view/belief that abortion is the intentional ending of life. If they have belief then why shouldn't they be allowed "protest".

Should only old people or people with longterm illnesses be allowed have a view on euthanasia.

The right to life for unborn children is protected by the constitution and a person's sex doesn't decide on who can vote to change the constitution.

um7y1h83ge06nx

phog wrote: »

Any person regardless of their sex can hold the view/belief that abortion is the intentional ending of life. If they have belief then why shouldn't they be allowed "protest".

Should only old people or people with longterm illnesses be allowed have a view on euthanasia.

The right to life for unborn children is protected by the constitution and a person's sex doesn't decide on who can vote to change the constitution.

I agree. I would be mainly pro choice but I think that saying that abortion is only a women's issue is a little ridiculous and immature, a complete erasure of fathers and the fact that there has to be a man involved in getting a woman pregnant, whether through traditional methods or semen samples.

As I said I don't agree with the views of these protesters. Would people here be happier if these protesters were female?

magma69

Parchment wrote: »

I cant imagine being a woman who was religious, had a miscarriage and went to the clinic for medical attention and saw a bunch of "monks" (are they actually monks?) and men praying across the road when i was already going through a traumatic time.

I get why people are saying they have a right to protest but take a step back and look at what they are protesting? Medical attention. Thats not right.

To men who say abortion isn't purely a womans issue - get back to me when you get pregnant.

So not intimidating people at all then? Having a distasteful protest.

I find it troubling the amount of people who don't believe in free expression in this thread.

Parchment

phog wrote: »

Any person regardless of their sex can hold the view/belief that abortion is the intentional ending of life. If they have belief then why shouldn't they be allowed "protest".

Should only old people or people with longterm illnesses be allowed have a view on euthanasia.

The right to life for unborn children is protected by the constitution and a person's sex doesn't decide on who can vote to change the constitution.

Men shouldnt have sex with women if they dont feel they can trust women.

Womens bodies - womens choices.

You sound pro-life, i think thats the issue here.

ShRT

Parchment wrote: »

Men shouldnt have sex with women if they dont feel they can trust women.

Womens bodies - womens choices.

You sound pro-life, i think thats the issue here.

You sound pro-choice, I think that's the issue here.... If there is to be an abortion it should be a decision taken by both the man and woman. To say that it does not affect the man is complete and utter nonsense.

On the topic of the protests, I'm not keen on them for the effect of preventing medical advice/attention and how that puts people lives at risk. However I don't think they should be stopped either

phog

Parchment wrote: »

Men shouldnt have sex with women if they dont feel they can trust women.

Womens bodies - womens choices.

You sound pro-life, i think thats the issue here.

There's a whole load of nonsense in this post.

I'm actually pro choice but that shouldn't matter to my view in how or why people protest once it's peaceful.

Edit, perhaps you're view on the 8th Amendment is blinding your view of the protest. People really need to be more tolerant of other people.

um7y1h83ge06nx

The great irony here is that some people who want women to have the freedom to make choices around pregnancy (something I support) also want to restrict the freedom of certain groups (men) from being involved in such a big and important debate for our society. They also want to restrict the freedom of other people to have opposing views.

Going back on topic, if people really feel that these protesters are doing something illegal then report it.

panda100

Smondie wrote: »

Well if 5 nutters standing outside stop her getting her health checked, she mustn't care that much about getting her health checked.

People have the right to protest peacefully, simple as that really.

:eek:

As someone whom was brought up in a Catholic conservative family, I can imagine that a younger me would have given the family planning clinic a wide berth in fear of being seen by one of these men.

People have the right to avail of necessary medical care without fear of being intimidated. It's a pity that these men don't care more about the living then they do zygotes.

phog

panda100 wrote: »

:eek:

As someone whom was brought up in a Catholic conservative family, I can imagine that a younger me would have given the family planning clinic a wide berth in fear of being seen by one of these men.

People have the right to avail of necessary medical care without fear of being intimidated. It's a pity that these men don't care more about the living then they do zygotes.

They're not mutually exclusive, the protesters might well care about the living and the unborn.

You're at least the second poster that have made assumptions based on very little fact.

Parchment

panda100 wrote: »

:eek:

As someone whom was brought up in a Catholic conservative family, I can imagine that a younger me would have given the family planning clinic a wide berth in fear of being seen by one of these men.

People have the right to avail of necessary medical care without fear of being intimidated. It's a pity that these men don't care more about the living then they do zygotes.

Thank you.

phog

panda100 wrote: »

It's a pity that these men don't care more about the living then they do zygotes.

I've never met or heard of anyone who has miscarried during their pregnancy ever say they lost a zygote they've v all grieved the loss of their baby.

Parchment

phog wrote: »

I've never met or heard of anyone who has miscarried during their pregnancy ever say they lost a zygote they've v all grieved the loss of their baby.

i know plenty of women who miscarried very early on and didnt consider it the loss of a baby but a miscarriage.

gctest50

phog wrote: »

..............

You're at least the second poster that have made assumptions based on very little fact.

So, in this vast study you carried out :

phog wrote: »

I've never met or heard of anyone who has miscarried during their pregnancy ever say they lost a zygote they've v all grieved the loss of their baby.

phog

gctest50 wrote: »

So, in this vast study you carried out :

What point are you trying to make?

Widdershins

How is a woman supposed to know these men aren't planning to attack her or blow the place up? Are they actual monks or lay men in costumes?
Sinister behaviour.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Widdershins wrote: »

How is a woman supposed to know these men aren't planning to attack her or blow the place up? Are they actual monks or lay men in costumes?
Sinister behaviour.

How do you know if anyone you interact with or walk past aren't planning to attack you or blow the place up?

If we all took that attitude we'd all be hiding under our beds.

Widdershins

Gemma Rapping Rider wrote: »

How do you know if anyone you interact with or walk past aren't planning to attack you or blow the place up?

If we all took that attitude we'd all be hiding under our beds.

It's the fact that they are clearly there deliberately. They are targeting/focusing on the building and the people going in, even though they might not be doing anything very extreme, it's clear that their attention is on the place.
Anyone else you pass is going about their own business just like you or I. Other people on the street usually have no interest in the rest of us and most importantly, don't know what we are doing and don't stand watching the buildings we use.

philstar

^^^^^^^^^^

very well said