Child support

John6008

I need some advice and help. I have a child 5 years old from a 1 night stand . I live in Australia she lives with her mother in Ireland .
I am now married and I pay child support and give money for helping with clothes, holidays etc . I never had a relationship with the mother but have always said I'd support her although I'm on the other side of the planet . She regularly calls me drunk and texts me she is quite erratic either abusing me or declaring her jealousy .
Anyway my problem is we never made any official agreement of the amount I give her I pay 75 pw plus extra that she may require. Every month she hitting me for more and more .. She wants me to pay for her gifts to my child pay for birthday parties etc she doesn't declare the money I get her 5o the social welfare so she gets more money. She also does cash work
I've transaction history of all the money I've sent her I want to return to Ireland but I am afraid I can't keep up with her demands .
I've recently had surgery and am not working and I asked for so leeway this month she become very unreasonable. Can anybody please point me in the right direction as I'm very lost .

ahnow

I don't think 75e a week to cover the cost of a child is really all that much to be honest. It works out at just over €10.00 a day. The mother who lives with the child has the task of caring for her full time, and paying for any hidden costs, clothes, food, transportation, school, washing stuff, cleaning up after the child, wear and tear of the house from the extra body living in there and playing there, any medical costs. The list goes on...and on and on. Not to mention the burden of actual care of the child-which you are not involved in.
Paying "extra" for birthday gifts and the like...if you were living with the child this is not something you would be asked for, it would be a given that you would provide this, as well as paying for any costs like birthday parties. These are all part and parcel of having a child.

Having said that, calling you drunk and abusing you is not on. You need to both come to some sort of agreement on a fair amount, and the abuse needs to stop. An increase on the 75 a week would probably reduce the requests for extra money, but in my opinion living just over 10€ daily is not enough.

Also commenting on where else she is getting money to pay for the child I think has very little to do with your issue. This is your child also, and should be 50% your responsibility. Just becaus she is getting money elsewhere shouldn't reduce your financial responsibility toward her in the slightest.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

ahnow wrote: »

I don't think 75e a week to cover the cost of a child is really all that much to be honest. It works out at just over €10.00 a day. The mother who lives with the child has the task of caring for her full time, and paying for any hidden costs, clothes, food, transportation, school, washing stuff, cleaning up after the child, wear and tear of the house from the extra body living in there and playing there, any medical costs. The list goes on...and on and on. Not to mention the burden of actual care of the child-which you are not involved in.
Paying "extra" for birthday gifts and the like...if you were living with the child this is not something you would be asked for, it would be a given that you would provide this, as well as paying for any costs like birthday parties. These are all part and parcel of having a child.

Having said that, calling you drunk and abusing you is not on. You need to both come to some sort of agreement on a fair amount, and the abuse needs to stop. An increase on the 75 a week would probably reduce the requests for extra money, but in my opinion living just over 10€ daily is not enough.

I disagree. €75 a week is only his portion. If the mother matched this, that's a total of €600 a month. That child must have some social life if it can't get by on that.

Just to clarify, €75 should be fine for general week to week expenses. I would expect to give more around Christmas, school year beginning and communions, child's birthday etc.

But if you're routinely being asked for more each week, then the mother is living beyond her means.

John6008

Yeah I understand this my problem about Christmas birthdays etc is I provide her with money for a gift from me and her but then I also have to provide a gift solely from me . I do I provide clothes at Easter toys at Xmas all this sort of thing but every time she wants more . The child's birthday is approaching and she wants to rent a hall and with a bouncy castle and I have to pay for it . I'm not in a high paying job I'm in a plumber . She gets rent allowance all the trimmings etc because she does not declare what I give her to the social welfare .
I want to return home but I cannot provide the same living in Ireland . If I don't give into her needs she cuts contact from me and my family and she gives me a guilt trip . It's really mentally draining now .

lifeandtimes

€75 a week is a standard amount paid for child support,as someone pointed out thats your half and the mother should be matching it meaning 600 a month which is plenty for a 5 year old,however things like school supplies and stuff wouldnt be factored in so that would need to be addressed.

Best thing you can do is when you get back to ireland is go to your local family district court and make an application for maintenence and have it court ordered,the judge will look very favourably on you for paying for so long while out of the country,all your and the mothers expenses will be taken into account and if she is getting more than you think dont be surprised if the judge reduces the amount you pay.

Also keep a record of all the times she calling you etc and report it to the police when you get back

John6008

Thank you for your help

Knine

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

I disagree. €75 a week is only his portion. If the mother matched this, that's a total of €600 a month. That child must have some social life if it can't get by on that.

Just to clarify, €75 should be fine for general week to week expenses. I would expect to give more around Christmas, school year beginning and communions, child's birthday etc.

But if you're routinely being asked for more each week, then the mother is living beyond her means.

The mother won't be able to match it as she is on social welfare. €75 a week is not a lot especially as the OP does not appear to have any relationship with his daughter.


I am not sure from the OP if the OP intends on returning to Ireland to live. The option is there for him to go to court to have a maintenance amount agreeded on. Then he would not need to be giving extras here & there. It woud be based on his ability to pay. Howver he would need firm evidence of her cash work.

Maybe you should also think about having some sort of relationship with your child. Would you not be more concerned about your exes arratic behavior & if your child is suffering because of that?

John6008

She not my ex . I am trying to have a relationship but if I don't meet her demands she cuts off contact

njs030

Knine wrote: »

The mother won't be able to match it as she is on social welfare. €75 a week is not a lot especially as the OP does not appear to have any relationship with his daughter.


I am not sure from the OP if the OP intends on returning to Ireland to live. The option is there for him to go to court to have a maintenance amount agreeded on. Then he would not need to be giving extras here & there. It woud be based on his ability to pay. Howver he would need firm evidence of her cash work.

Maybe you should also think about having some sort of relationship with your child. Would you not be more concerned about your exes arratic behavior & if your child is suffering because of that?

The mother should be matching it. That's how it works. She doesn't get €200+ sw for herself and daddy pays for everything else.
Plus she gets €140 cb a month.

Op I agree totally that with the mothers erratic behavior you should go to court and have access and maintenance agreements in place when you return or this woman will make tour life hell.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Knine wrote: »

The mother won't be able to match it as she is on social welfare.

Are you actually serious? I can't get my head around this logic. So the mam doesn't earn enough to give the child the lifestyle she'd like to, so the OP must magic it up from somewhere?

It's not quite as straightforward as that, in that if the mother was to work full time, there maybe childcare fees etc, but that's where family planning and personal responsibility come into play. You can't just pick up the phone and make demands and give abuse because you're not happy with your lot, yet you appear to be trying to justify that behaviour.

John6008

How am I justifying that behaviour?

Knine

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Are you actually serious? I can't get my head around this logic. So the mam doesn't earn enough to give the child the lifestyle she'd like to, so the OP must magic it up from somewhere?

It's not quite as straightforward as that, in that if the mother was to work full time, there maybe childcare fees etc, but that's where family planning and personal responsibility come into play. You can't just pick up the phone and make demands and give abuse because you're not happy with your lot, yet you appear to be trying to justify that behaviour.

Yes I am very serious. Do you know the costs of childcare in this country? Especially if there is only one income & no support from the other parent other then financial

Dravokivich

Knine wrote: »

Yes I am very serious. Do you know the costs of childcare in this country? Especially if there is only one income & no support from the other parent other then financial

That is not whats being discussed here. Take your soapbox elsewhere.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Knine wrote: »

Yes I am very serious. Do you know the costs of childcare in this country? Especially if there is only one income & no support from the other parent other then financial

But this child isn't in full time childcare. You do know that child support is capped in the district court at €150 per child per week? That would really be the higher end of the scale, so probably unachievable in this case, so relatively speaking the amount OP pays is reasonable, and the mother should really be making do better than she seems to be now.

Knine

Dravokivich wrote: »

That is not whats being discussed here. Take your soapbox elsewhere.

Actually it is being discussed. It is one of the costs of raising a child & something a judge in court will take into consideration here in Ireland. My 13 years of experience of being in a family law court backs that up.

€75 a week is actually pretty standard.

The op seems more concerned about money then the welfare of his child if the mother is as he has described - erratic.

Knine

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

But this child isn't in full time childcare. You do know that child support is capped in the district court at €150 per child per week? That would really be the higher end of the scale, so probably unachievable in this case, so relatively speaking the amount OP pays is reasonable, and the mother should really be making do better than she seems to be now.

Yes I agree with that & I know the cap amount but you can go to higher courts if for example the father/mother was earning a substantial wage.

I merely pointed out that €75 is not a lot of money especially where the father is not involved. I don't notice him asking how he could get access to the child.

njs030

Knine wrote: »

Actually it is being discussed. It is one of the costs of raising a child & something a judge in court will take into consideration here in Ireland. My 13 years of experience of being in a family law court backs that up.

€75 a week is actually pretty standard.

The op seems more concerned about money then the welfare of his child if the mother is as he has described - erratic.

Well no it's not because she doesn't work and isn't in need of childcare at the moment.
You're purely speculating to back up your own argument because for some strange reason you've decided to attack the op.
Perhaps she has relatives to help her mind the child....who knows.

While you're busily attacking the op you've ignored the social welfare fraud by the childs mother though....

Dravokivich

Knine wrote: »

Actually it is being discussed. It is one of the costs of raising a child & something a judge in court will take into consideration here in Ireland. My 13 years of experience of being in a family law court backs that up.

€75 a week is actually pretty standard.

The op seems more concerned about money then the welfare of his child if the mother is as he has described - erratic.

Your experience has tainted your input into this. He already casually pays to help support the child and is looking to get it set more authoritively.

We only know of the mother's behaviour towards him also. It may solely be erratic towards him, which happens to many fathers who've been left on the outside of things when a child is involved.

You choose to shame and guilt him in to needing to pay more. That has nothing to do what he's asking for.

Knine wrote: »

Yes I agree with that & I know the cap amount but you can go to higher courts if for example the father/mother was earning a substantial wage.

I merely pointed out that €75 is not a lot of money especially where the father is not involved. I don't notice him asking how he could get access to the child.

Then you should read his follow up posts in the thread more carefully.

The first thing he needs to sort out are issues regarding money when he has clearly stated he's recovering from needing surgery recently. So has a lower chance of paying.

silverharp

just to cover all bases ,did you ever have a dna test done ?, if it was just a one night stand there is a possibility someone else is the biological father?

John6008

Access is not the problem . She stops my contact though if I don't meet her demands ? If acces was the issue I would have stated that in my previous post .

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Knine wrote: »

......where the father is not involved. I don't notice him asking how he could get access to the child.

Do you not? This bit makes me think you probably do have a particular axe to grind.

The question OP asked was if we thought €75 a week was sufficient, and my opinion was that it is.

When you start talking about childcare costs that don't apply in this case, and commenting on his access to the child, which is none of your business, it makes me think the soapbox reference has got a bit of truth to it.

John6008

Yes I had the test done . I want to clarify I make an effort to keep in contact with the baby by skyping her and calling . I go home every year for 4 weeks to see her . I don't regret having her . I am trying my best . I made it clear to her from the begin I was traveling away and she gave me the option of walking away but I decided to try help and have a relationship as best I can .

Eircom_Sucks

silverharp wrote: »

just to cover all bases ,did you ever have a dna test done ?, if it was just a one night stand there is a possibility someone else is the biological father?

i second this

Knine

John6008 wrote: »

Yes I had the test done . I want to clarify I make an effort to keep in contact with the baby by skyping her and calling . I go home every year for 4 weeks to see her . I don't regret having her . I am trying my best . I made it clear to her from the begin I was traveling away and she gave me the option of walking away but I decided to try help and have a relationship as best I can .

When you get back lodge an application with the family law courts & apply for both access & maintenance to be heard at the same time. That way if she starts getting difficult you will already have the order in place. There is also a family mediation option which involves several sessions. The agreeement can then be legalised. Also if you are not a Guardian you need to apply for this also.

Bring all evidence with you to court - medical, proof of previous payments etc.

Tasden

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Do you not? This bit makes me think you probably do have a particular axe to grind.

The question OP asked was if we thought €75 a week was sufficient, and my opinion was that it is.

When you start talking about childcare costs that don't apply in this case, and commenting on his access to the child, which is none of your business, it makes me think the soapbox reference has got a bit of truth to it.

In fairness people were talking about her being on social welfare yet expecting the dad to somehow cough up money. As the main/sole carer of the child, in order to work to be able to earn a sufficient wage she would need to pay for childcare. Which 75 p/w would not cover.

Dravokivich

Tasden wrote: »

In fairness people were talking about her being on social welfare yet expecting the dad to somehow cough up money. As the main/sole carer of the child, in order to work to be able to earn a sufficient wage she would need to pay for childcare. Which 75 p/w would not cover.

The discussion is around what he is able to pay, what he can do to support that and make sure it doesn't impact on a relationship with his child. Not why he should be compelled or explained to pay more.

Knine

Dravokivich wrote: »

The discussion is around what he is able to pay, what he can do to support that and make sure it doesn't impact on a relationship with his child. Not why he should be compelled or explained to pay more.

If he goes to court he will be compelled & have to explain. I'm not sure why you seem to think nobody elses opinion is valid. Even going as far as commenting that I have an axe to grind when you know nothing about me. At least we gave advice based on what is likely to happen.

Tasden

Dravokivich wrote: »

The discussion is around what he is able to pay, what he can do to support that and make sure it doesn't impact on a relationship with his child. Not why he should be compelled or explained to pay more.

As I said, the discussion had become about how the mother was on social welfare and how she should be matching what the father was giving. It was asked why the responsibility was on the father to somehow be able to provide additional money, when she cannot provide the same sort of money herself. It is fair to point out that in order to do that she may need to avail of childcare, which costs more than 75 euro per week.

Dravokivich

Knine wrote: »

If he goes to court he will be compelled & have to explain. I'm not sure why you seem to think nobody elses opinion is valid. Even going as far as commenting that I have an axe to grind when you know nothing about me. At least we gave advice based on what is likely to happen.

He's never disputed nor argued against a need to pay it. Only looking to put down somewhere what he can pay as he has so far.

The potential cost of child care or anything else doesn't come into it.

Knine

Dravokivich wrote: »

He's never disputed nor argued against a need to pay it. Only looking to put down somewhere what he can pay as he has so far.

The potential cost of child care or anything else doesn't come into it.

Eh it could well come into it if the mother decides she wants to work full time & needs childcare. You do realize that? Situations change all the time!

Dravokivich

Knine wrote: »

Eh it could well come into it if the mother decides she wants to work full time & needs childcare. You do realize that? Situations change all the time!

As a single mother if not working, or working on a partime basis she is still entitlled to Lone Parents and can claim FIS, along with the tax credits of being a single parent.

If he can't pay more than 75 a week, he won't be able to give more than 75 a week regardless of the mothers circumstances.

John6008

She has no desire to work . Why would she ? She's milking the system and she's working from her house nails etc she's makes a decent wage

I've no problem with her making money or anything. I just feel when I return to Ireland I won't be able to keep up with her demands , I think a5 times she can be unreasonable.
I have the upmost respect for what's she's doing as a mother . I understand how hard her job is .

Knine

John6008 wrote: »

She has no desire to work . Why would she ? She's milking the system and she's working from her house nails etc she's makes a decent wage

Well if you go back to Ireland, Social Welfare may well send you a letter looking for maintenance recovery. Then when you show proof you are paying then she is going to be in a lot of trouble. Try to get proof that she is doimg nails at home. When you go to court both applicants will fill in a statement of means. She will likely leave her undeclared income out of her statement. This is where you show the judge your evidence. Does she have a FB page etc? Start gathering your evidence now!

John6008

I will . I have record of all the money I've sent her through western union so it's cost a bit extra every time . She won't let me use currency fair into her account obviously this is so the social can't see . I've copies of text she's sends that's about it at the moment.

Dravokivich

John6008 wrote: »

I will . I have record of all the money I've sent her through western union so it's cost a bit extra every time . She won't let me use currency fair into her account obviously this is so the social can't see . I've copies of text she's sends that's about it at the moment.

Any text messages, would be better off presented as screenshots. A text log can be used for reference, but there's the potential for it to be questioned as edited.

Knine

John6008 wrote: »

I will . I have record of all the money I've sent her through western union so it's cost a bit extra every time . She won't let me use currency fair into her account obviously this is so the social can't see . I've copies of text she's sends that's about it at the moment.

Do screen shots of any FB stuff etc. If you go to court don't turn it into a he says, she says. The judge won't want to hear any of that. Just be calm & state your case & provide evidence for everything you say & include medical certs. You can do it a without a solicitor.

Snugglebunnies

The op's lack of actual parenting is obviously a factor which severely limits the mother's potential to earn, therefore he should be paying the greater chunk of the costs of rearing the child. The mother is doing 99% of the work here.

ted1

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

I disagree. €75 a week is only his portion. If the mother matched this, that's a total of €600 a month. That child must have some social life if it can't get by on that.

Just to clarify, €75 should be fine for general week to week expenses. I would expect to give more around Christmas, school year beginning and communions, child's birthday etc.

But if you're routinely being asked for more each week, then the mother is living beyond her means.

Electricity , food, school , after school activities , clothes , accommodation, baby sitters, it all adds up. Kids are expensive

A crèche costs about 1500 a month for only a few hours a day , this guy is having his child looked after 24 hours a day 7!days a week

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

ted1 wrote: »

Electricity , food, school , after school activities , clothes , accommodation, baby sitters, it all adds up. Kids are expensive

A crèche costs about 1500 a month for only a few hours a day , this guy is having his child looked after 24 hours a day 7!days a week

The mother isn't running a creche, is she? Insurance, rates, wages...

And she'll have to just live within her means. If she's a single mother dependent on social welfare, and that means the child can't go to after school activities, if it means the mother doesn't get nights out because she can't pay a babysitter, that's life! He's about fulfilling his obligations. People confuse wants with needs, that's the problem.

ted1

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

The mother isn't running a creche, is she? Insurance, rates, wages...

And she'll have to just live within her means. If she's a single mother dependent on social welfare, and that means the child can't go to after school activities, if it means the mother doesn't get nights out because she can't pay a babysitter, that's life! He's about fulfilling his obligations. People confuse wants with needs, that's the problem.

I'd consider after school activities as a need for a child.
You seem to confuse obligations and what's required to nourish and raise a child in 2016.

Tasden

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

The mother isn't running a creche, is she? Insurance, rates, wages...

And she'll have to just live within her means. If she's a single mother dependent on social welfare, and that means the child can't go to after school activities, if it means the mother doesn't get nights out because she can't pay a babysitter, that's life! He's about fulfilling his obligations. People confuse wants with needs, that's the problem.

It's a bit unfair assuming babysitters means nights out. I use babysitters (or ask family if they are available) for when I have a hospital visit that isn't appropriate for my child to attend with me, when I've to go to a funeral, when I've to stay late at work and the creche closes at 6.30. They are not for my nights out but they still cost money.

Keane2baMused

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

The mother isn't running a creche, is she? Insurance, rates, wages...

And she'll have to just live within her means. If she's a single mother dependent on social welfare, and that means the child can't go to after school activities, if it means the mother doesn't get nights out because she can't pay a babysitter, that's life! He's about fulfilling his obligations. People confuse wants with needs, that's the problem.

So the only obligation is to pay for the child? It takes two to tango.

December2012

Most fathers pay child support but also spend time with their child too and share the actual parenting. The OP is not doing the parenting from what is in the post.

75 at a minimum seems appropriate in that situation. Bear in mind OP that random hours for you are daytime hours here, but I agree that ranting or shouting on either side isn't appropriate.

Maybe email would be a better method of communication for you?

December2012

Most fathers pay child support but also spend time with their child too and share the actual parenting. The OP is not doing the parenting from what is in the post.

75 at a minimum seems appropriate in that situation. Bear in mind OP that random hours for you are daytime hours here, but I agree that ranting or shouting on either side isn't appropriate.

Maybe email would be a better method of communication for you?

IvoryTower

ted1 wrote: »

A crèche costs about 1500 a month for only a few hours a day , this guy is having his child looked after 24 hours a day 7!days a week

Single mothers or anyone with medical card have access to public creche, my local one is 400 a month, 200 if you go to college

Edit: sorry I meant lone parent

Knine

IvoryTower wrote: »

Single mothers or anyone with medical card have access to public creche, my local one is 400 a month, 200 if you go to college

Public Creches? I certainly did not have such a luxury when I needed this service. It was pay the full whack.

Tasden

IvoryTower wrote: »

Single mothers or anyone with medical card have access to public creche, my local one is 400 a month, 200 if you go to college

Places are limited in community creches and the price depends on the band she falls into which depends on type of payment etc.
Once earning above a certain amount for a certain period of time, and the loss of her medical card as a result, she will no longer qualify for affordable childcare and normal private fees will apply.

Eta: it is not "single mothers" who get the places. It is people in receipt of one parent family payment. You don't just get the places by virtue of being a single parent. There are plenty of single parents not in receipt of social welfare/medical card and therefore not entitled to supports such as the above.

SteM

ted1 wrote: »

Electricity , food, school , after school activities , clothes , accommodation, baby sitters, it all adds up. Kids are expensive

A crèche costs about 1500 a month for only a few hours a day , this guy is having his child looked after 24 hours a day 7!days a week

Sorry but €1500 is a city centre top end price for more than a few hours a day. Our local crèche is €830 pm minding the child 7am to 6pm with all meals included.

Keane2baMused

SteM wrote: »

Sorry but €1500 is a city centre top end price for more than a few hours a day. Our local crèche is €830 pm minding the child 7am to 6pm with all meals included.

Is that all?

That's more than many are paying for their mortgage now.

ted1

SteM wrote: »

Sorry but €1500 is a city centre top end price for more than a few hours a day. Our local crèche is €830 pm minding the child 7am to 6pm with all meals included.

What area do you live in?

SteM

ted1 wrote: »

What area do you live in?

Citywest.