Change of engine in a post 08 car.

colm_mcm

So on the old cc based tax system, when you change engine, you need to give the new engine number and engine capacity. The future tax of the car is based on this cc value.
Many "2.0 on the book" 530d's later!

Anyhoo, what happens now if you replace an engine that is not identical to the original, be it in terms of power, co2, age, engine capacity or even manufacturer.
How does the taxation system allow for this? What happens nowadays if you declare an engine change on a change of particulars form?

Atlantic Dawn

My understanding is it doesn't change the motor tax rate as you won't have official figures to back it up.

colm_mcm

So I could get an 08 520d and fit a 4.4 v8 petrol and retain de chape tax?

Atlantic Dawn

colm_mcm wrote: »

So I could get an 08 520d and fit a 4.4 v8 petrol and retain de chape tax?

Form RF111 doesn't give any facility to put in new CO2 rating and I would doubt anything but official manufacturer test would be accepted...
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

I'd love to know for sure, has to be people who have done it, found this on motortax page...

How will the level of CO2 be known?

Before a new model is put on sale in Europe, it must undergo a series of tests to ensure that it has achieved approved standards regarding safety, environmental impact, etc. This process is called Type Approval and each car achieving the approved standards is issued with a Certificate of Conformity.

Among the details included on the Certificate of Conformitry is the level of CO2 emissions of the car. This is the information that will be used for taxation purposes for both vehicle registration tax (VRT) and motor tax.

This CO2 rating will be captured initially by the Revenue Co
mmissioners at vehicle registration tax stage and passed on to the national vehicle file for use in connection with the administration of the motor tax system. In the absence of a Certificate of Conformity
and the Revenue Coommissioners not otherwise being satisfied as to the CO2 rating of a car by reference to any other supporting documentation, the motorist will be required to pay the highest motor tax rate. The same approach will apply to VRT.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/faqs_co2_en.pdf

Kenny Logins

colm_mcm wrote: »

So I could get an 08 520d and fit a 4.4 v8 petrol and retain de chape tax?

I reckon you'd find out that the tax band can only go up, not down. :pac:

Good question though.

Damien360

colm_mcm wrote: »

So I could get an 08 520d and fit a 4.4 v8 petrol and retain de chape tax?

You would get pride of place on here's what I saw today thread with your v8 badge until someone does a reg check and it comes back as an oil burner. A full page of debate would then start on which is it and the merits of same before someone declares hero/clown.

Daniel S

Surely if we could just drop a new engine in and the tax wasn't affected, you'd have loads of lads swapping JZ, RB engines into later cars? Or even ST/GTi engines into base models?

I'd love to buy a damaged ST and repair it as a project, but if I could just reshell it and save a decent amount on tax it'd be a nice bonus!

Bigus

I think if you informed the authorities and supplied your new engine Number you would be compliant and get retain the low tax, the only alternative would be for them to slap the maximum rate onto non standard cars.

Both scenarios unfair but I don't see any easy alternative.

Would work for a while until loads jump on the bandwagon.

Daniel S

Bigus wrote: »

Would work for a while until loads jump on the bandwagon.

I think that's what most of us would expect. It'd be a loophole.

colm_mcm

I think it will be a thing down the line when 08 cars fall into a lower price bracket.

Del2005

Daniel S wrote: »

Surely if we could just drop a new engine in and the tax wasn't affected, you'd have loads of lads swapping JZ, RB engines into later cars? Or even ST/GTi engines into base models?

I'd love to buy a damaged ST and repair it as a project, but if I could just reshell it and save a decent amount on tax it'd be a nice bonus!

Insurance companies don't like minor modifications, you'll be international phone number region for quotes.

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think it will be a thing down the line when 08 cars fall into a lower price bracket.

I asked a mechanic about this who reckoned between wiring, multiple ecu changes, suspension and various other modifications know a modern car it just would never be worth it . This was from a guy who regularly converted 316i into something nicer

pred racer

colm_mcm wrote: »

So on the old cc based tax system, when you change engine, you need to give the new engine number and engine capacity. The future tax of the car is based on this cc value.
Many "2.0 on the book" 530d's later!

Anyhoo, what happens now if you replace an engine that is not identical to the original, be it in terms of power, co2, age, engine capacity or even manufacturer.
How does the taxation system allow for this? What happens nowadays if you declare an engine change on a change of particulars form?

I asked about this a couple of years ago, and at that time there was no method to change the tax band of a car, up or down, no matter what you fit in it
i had daydreams of fitting a busso in a 159

millington

ba_barabus wrote: »

I asked a mechanic about this who reckoned between wiring, multiple ecu changes, suspension and various other modifications know a modern car it just would never be worth it . This was from a guy who regularly converted 316i into something nicer

Thats always the way. 20 years ago people said that about cars with one ECU and now look.

skywanderer

Back in the old (pre-NCT) days my father had one BMC Diesel engine for almost 15 years which went through 3 different bodies (Hillman Hunters), cars were simpler back then. His final experiment was in the mid 90's with a BMW e20 coupe with a Toyota Corolla 1.8 diesel engine and gearbox fitted. Both were RWD cars, the Toyota engine had almost 300,000miles on the clock and was reconditioned once.

sgalvin

From revenues site.

How do I know how much CO2 my car emits?
The Certificate of Conformity confirms the specific level of CO2 emissions for a vehicle at the date of manufacture. This is the level that will be used for taxation purposes and will not change regardless of post-production modifications that might be made, modifications that might either increase or decrease the levels of emissions of the vehicle. Additionally a labeling system, showing the CO2 emissions of new cars on sale in the State, has been introduced.


So yes you can drop in your v8.
Pick something like a manual 520d with a broken timing chain and bolt in the v8.
As they were both options on the same car, a configuration of control modules and engine wiring loom should get you close!

As I remember Volvo were offering a dealer power upgrade post registration on their 2.4 diesel to get the lower tax for registration and then then convert with no change in tax/vrt.

colm_mcm wrote: »

So on the old cc based tax system, when you change engine, you need to give the new engine number and engine capacity. The future tax of the car is based on this cc value.
Many "2.0 on the book" 530d's later!

Anyhoo, what happens now if you replace an engine that is not identical to the original, be it in terms of power, co2, age, engine capacity or even manufacturer.
How does the taxation system allow for this? What happens nowadays if you declare an engine change on a change of particulars form?

colm_mcm

Yep, Saab were doing a similar thing too.