Kitchen remodel . . . cheaper or nicer option?

richy

Hi there,

I currently live in a house that my father owns. The kitchen and bathroom need to be done as they are in poor condition. We pay small rent to my dad currently.

Hes paying to do up both the kitchen and bathroom. We need all new appliances and are planning on getting them from Ikea.

Built in fridge freezer is 450, washing machine (buit in) 500, built in oven is 250 and hob is 200. Ikea have a five year guarantee with their products and seem to be of good quality.

The units we are thinking of getting from B and Q. We are planning on airbnbing the house in the summer months for the next 2 years while im on break from college. We will then continue airbnbing it when I move out after college or renting full time if it doesnt work out.

My questions are as follows.

1) Are we better off getting more expensive units from B and Q (still cheapest they have) or are we better off getting ones that the kitchen fitter can get cheap. Dont have full price difference yet but likely 2k vs 1300.

The B and Q one does look far better but will a nicer kitcben attract a better clientele? I feel maybe not with full time renters but it would be more attractive to people renting on airbnb. Is the diffence of 700 worth paying for a house due to be rented.

My reasoning for going with built in appliances is that Ikea pretty much replace everything covered under guarantee as far as I can read online and this would be handy for a rented properties landlord. The washing machine is more expensive than a not built in one from there by 130ish. The built in fridge freezer is actually cheaper than their free standing ones and the reason I think a built in oven and hob is better is because it will be much easier to clean post tenants rather than pulling out the cooker after every airbnb tentant.

Currently, we have a freestanding cooker and food regularly falls down the side and its a pain in the ass to clean as we have a very small kitchen.

So overall the nicer kitchen with all built in appiances will probably be 1000 more expensive. I reckon this would be made back by 1) being more attractive for airbnbers and 2) a good 5 year warranty from Ikea. There is also the added bonus of 100 of a 1000 spend in Ikea at the moment so when we buy the units in Ikea we will prob save another 200 euro as also buying bathroom suite from there.

Any questions about my rambling incoherent post please feel free to ask.

Cheers

SB_Part2

I wouldn't buy my kitchen from IKEA. Anytime I look at the display kitchen in there there are always handles broken, drawers that don't open etc.

I know it's a showroom and people are constantly opening and closing them but I'd still expect them to last.

It might be a more expensive option but would you look at getting something from the likes of http://www.woodworks.ie/kitchens.html ? It's going to be better quality in the long run.

tinkerbell

IKEA kitchens (the actual kitchen, not appliances) have a 25 year guarantee so I can't see how the handle / drawer issues that are mentioned above would even be an issue.

SB_Part2

tinkerbell wrote: »

IKEA kitchens (the actual kitchen, not appliances) have a 25 year guarantee so I can't see how the handle / drawer issues that are mentioned above would even be an issue.

I'm going by experience of looking at their showrooms. There is always something hanging off.

Ms Doubtfire1

read the fine print

FAKTUM kitchen system
What is covered under this guarantee?
This guarantee covers all the following parts of the FAKTUM kitchen system:
• Cabinet frames
• Fronts
• INTEGRAL hinges
• RATIONELL fully-extending drawers
• RATIONELL shelves of tempered glass and melamine
• RATIONELL wire baskets
• Plinths
• Legs
• Cover panels
• Deco strips/mouldings
• Worktops that are at least 3.8 cm thick
• Sinks. Except FYNDIG sinks.
• PERFEKT shelf and wine shelf
• RATIONELL bottom trays for base cabinet
• RATIONELL drawers under oven
• RATIONELL floor-level drawers
• RATIONELL dish drainers for wall cabinet
Products not covered under this guarantee
Knobs, handles and worktops that are less than 3.8 cm thick.

Moonbeam

I found DID give great deals on multiple appliances .

Rew

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I'm going by experience of looking at their showrooms. There is always something hanging off.

Its a showroom thousands of people go through the place daily. Many people go overboard "checking quality" ie abusing the showroom, people take their car keys and scrap the panels to see how they mark etc. of course there is ware and tear.

I have helped family and friends do multiple Ikea kitchens, all are hold up fantastically well. I used their kitchen stuff to do a home office (cheaper then their actual office stuff). I personally would have no complaints.

The base units are all the same the quality of the countertops and doors goes from low to high to give options to all budgets.

richy

Im not buying units in Ikea. Just the appliances. The units will be coming from either b and q or a independent seller. The b and q ones are slot nicer. My question really is will there be some return on investment with the nicer units and is the 700 extra Euro worth it. I reckon it is but looking for some other opinions.

richy

Rew wrote: »

Its a showroom thousands of people go through the place daily. Many people go overboard "checking quality" ie abusing the showroom, people take their car keys and scrap the panels to see how they mark etc. of course there is ware and tear.

I have helped family and friends do multiple Ikea kitchens, all are hold up fantastically well. I used their kitchen stuff to do a home office (cheaper then their actual office stuff). I personally would have no complaints.

The base units are all the same the quality of the countertops and doors goes from low to high to give options to all budgets.[/quote





Love the ikea kitchens buy the extra couple cm depth makes them unfeasible.

Ms Doubtfire1

ah, got you. Well, the more luxurious an AIRBN apartment is, the higher price you can charge for it. Would advise to look around at similar properties on there and see what they charge and how they are kitted out.

Rew

richy wrote: »

Love the ikea kitchens buy the extra couple cm depth makes them unfeasible.

Yeah unless your space fits with their expected dimensions and shape forget it!

newacc2015

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I wouldn't buy my kitchen from IKEA. Anytime I look at the display kitchen in there there are always handles broken, drawers that don't open etc.

I know it's a showroom and people are constantly opening and closing them but I'd still expect them to last.

It might be a more expensive option but would you look at getting something from the likes of http://www.woodworks.ie/kitchens.html ? It's going to be better quality in the long run.

I suppose you wouldnt buy a sofa from Arnotts as you seen a scratch on it too? Do you not think a showroom in which thousands of people pass through everyday will have the odd damaged item? Where as a perfect showroom off the M50 which is trade only with a few dozen people a day will have the perfect showroom due to lack of people.

Ikea is one of the few companies who actually test their products for years of potential use and abuse. Most of their kitchens are made in Germany. The only other company that markets their kitchens made in Germany in Ireland charges about 5/6 times that of Ikea

MDF is MDF. It doesnt matter if it is cut by a machine in Germany or an industrial estate in Dublin 15. The MDF or plywood will probably be the same standard no matter where you buy it

OP only buy German appliances. Buying anything else is false economy. I know landlords who literally used to **** through British made appliances. If you spend the extra €50-100 you will have your appliances for several years more. Plus German made appliances are far more energy efficient. Bosch isnt that expensive.

If you want to Airbnb the place. People dont want a cheap generic kitchen with the cheapest appliances you picked up off some exit on the M50. Spend a little more on a nice Ikea Kitchen ie ultra high gloss grey, mid-range Chinese porcelain( you can pick up for like €15-20 sq metre) and Bosch Appliances. If you want top dollar on Airbnb, dont expect people to like an ultra cheap kitchen

MouseTail

Its a small differential in price, so I would go for the better quality kitchen (would choose Ikea over b&q myself, particularly over their budget range).

richy

newacc2015 wrote: »

I suppose you wouldnt buy a sofa from Arnotts as you seen a scratch on it too? Do you not think a showroom in which thousands of people pass through everyday will have the odd damaged item? Where as a perfect showroom off the M50 which is trade only with a few dozen people a day will have the perfect showroom due to lack of people.

Ikea is one of the few companies who actually test their products for years of potential use and abuse. Most of their kitchens are made in Germany. The only other company that markets their kitchens made in Germany in Ireland charges about 5/6 times that of Ikea

MDF is MDF. It doesnt matter if it is cut by a machine in Germany or an industrial estate in Dublin 15. The MDF or plywood will probably be the same standard no matter where you buy it

OP only buy German appliances. Buying anything else is false economy. I know landlords who literally used to **** through British made appliances. If you spend the extra €50-100 you will have your appliances for several years more. Plus German made appliances are far more energy efficient. Bosch isnt that expensive.

If you want to Airbnb the place. People dont want a cheap generic kitchen with the cheapest appliances you picked up off some exit on the M50. Spend a little more on a nice Ikea Kitchen ie ultra high gloss grey, mid-range Chinese porcelain( you can pick up for like €15-20 sq metre) and Bosch Appliances. If you want top dollar on Airbnb, dont expect people to like an ultra cheap kitchen

Cheers for the replies guys. Ill look into the Bosch appliances. What about whirlpool and electrolux which are the ikea ones? I had the same opinion about the standard of the kitchen.

MouseTail wrote: »

Its a small differential in price, so I would go for the better quality kitchen (would choose Ikea over b&q myself, particularly over their budget range).

Unfortunately absolutely stuck on space so cant fit in the ikea ones. The B and Q one im looking at is the santini which isnt their lowest priced one but far from their highest too.

Evil-p

Really surprised you rate b & q kitchens. I think they look so cheap and flimsy. Also supply and fit for a b & q kitchen in at 11k for my kitchen. IKEA about 6 supplied and fitted and cash and carry kitchens around 8k. You would be mad to buy IKEA appliances. They rarely have sales and although they are good quality you will get cheaper on sale in currys/Harvey Normans/ power city. I bought a €600 10kg washing machine for €300 in currys on sale. Power city did me a deal and knocked €200 off when I bought multiple appliances with them. I got an IKEA dishwasher as it fits an IKEA kitchen and it's excellent.

Evil-p

Sorry just saw you cant fit and IKEA kitchen. I'm a bit confused by that. They are all standard units

colm_mcm

Keep in mind the basic (renlig?) ikea appliances don't have the 5 year warranty.

I've fitted ikea kitchens in houses with crooked walls and into spaces they weren't designed for, can't see the issue with them.

They are a bit more akward with regards piumbing as there's no void area at the back like some kitchens have, but that's easily got around anyway.

The ikea appliances are very good I think, as long as you avoid the base model which doesn't get the 5 year guarantee, I think the basic oven isn't a fan oven for example. They're rebadged whirlpool. They are quicker to fit than generic integrated appliances as ikea will have done all the measuring for you, and for example with the washing machine they include a specialist tool for drilling out the doors for hinges.


Keep in mind with ikea, where the cost goes up is on items like side cover panels, plinths, cornices, interior storage solutions, lighting etc.

If it were me, I would get a company who does kitchen doors to make new ones to the measurements of your existing ones (there's a company in Wicklow that does this) and just go for non integrated appliances, they're easier to deal with if there's a repair or replacement needed. IKEA do a nice range of cheaper solid wood worktops too, which will really transform an old kitchen.


This will be far less disruptive and will cost you much less. If this is a rental property you need to keep in mind that you want to make money.

Wabbit Ears

Throwing my 2 cents into all this I'd do the follwoing.

Measure up the room and goto some local kitchen places and get quotes for the kitchen including fitting. If you talk with local places they often have display pieces, etc that can knock prices way down. Im ny expreience of getting my kitchen done recently a good ktchen designer will really be able to make the best use of the light and space. They also will think and know things that wont even occur to you.

Write up a full list of applicances and goto local Powercity, did etc. Most will price match. I'd advise, esp for integrated dishwashers and fridges, to just pay the extra 50 quid or so to get everything fitted and the older applicances removed. Applicance fitters do this day in day out and will get the doors hung right and the correct gaps. Buy Bosch. Ive replaced everything, beko, whirlpool, etc etcthat I origionally bought with bosch stuff. Its lasted so so much better and was worth the little bit extra.

SB_Part2

newacc2015 wrote: »

I suppose you wouldnt buy a sofa from Arnotts as you seen a scratch on it too? Do you not think a showroom in which thousands of people pass through everyday will have the odd damaged item? Where as a perfect showroom off the M50 which is trade only with a few dozen people a day will have the perfect showroom due to lack of people.

Ikea is one of the few companies who actually test their products for years of potential use and abuse. Most of their kitchens are made in Germany. The only other company that markets their kitchens made in Germany in Ireland charges about 5/6 times that of Ikea

MDF is MDF. It doesnt matter if it is cut by a machine in Germany or an industrial estate in Dublin 15. The MDF or plywood will probably be the same standard no matter where you buy it

OP only buy German appliances. Buying anything else is false economy. I know landlords who literally used to **** through British made appliances. If you spend the extra €50-100 you will have your appliances for several years more. Plus German made appliances are far more energy efficient. Bosch isnt that expensive.

If you want to Airbnb the place. People dont want a cheap generic kitchen with the cheapest appliances you picked up off some exit on the M50. Spend a little more on a nice Ikea Kitchen ie ultra high gloss grey, mid-range Chinese porcelain( you can pick up for like €15-20 sq metre) and Bosch Appliances. If you want top dollar on Airbnb, dont expect people to like an ultra cheap kitchen

I don't rate IKEA kitchens the same way you don't rate their appliances. Not sure why you decided to quote me.

Teyla Emmagan

From what I understand you buy the whole thing from IKEA or nothing. Their appliances and units don't fit with other people's kitchens apparently. You should speak to a kitchen installer before buying anything.

colm_mcm

Nah, the appliances are largely universal. Bar stuff like some of the extractor fans and possibly someintegrated microwaves

Evil-p

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

From what I understand you buy the whole thing from IKEA or nothing. Their appliances and units don't fit with other people's kitchens apparently. You should speak to a kitchen installer before buying anything.

That's incorrect. I have an IKEA kitchen and all non IKEA appliances bar the dishwasher.

newacc2015

richy wrote: »

Cheers for the replies guys. Ill look into the Bosch appliances. What about whirlpool and electrolux which are the ikea ones? I had the same opinion about the standard of the kitchen.

They are the generic British made junk ( I think they are either made in Eastern Europe or Turkey now). I know from speaking to a ton of landlords, a German brand appliance lasts a lot longer than the British brands.

Bosch are a lot cheaper than they used to be. You can pick up a Bosch washing machine for like €320 in DID or Powercity that is ultra energy and water efficient. I dont think they do an integrated washing machine though.

newacc2015

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I don't rate IKEA kitchens the same way you don't rate their appliances. Not sure why you decided to quote me.

I dont quite understand your post. It is not clear what you are trying to say

richy

Evil-p wrote: »

Sorry just saw you cant fit and IKEA kitchen. I'm a bit confused by that. They are all standard units

The units are 60cm deep and the worktops are 63.5. Really only have the 60cms.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Keep in mind the basic (renlig?) ikea appliances don't have the 5 year warranty.

I've fitted ikea kitchens in houses with crooked walls and into spaces they weren't designed for, can't see the issue with them.

They are a bit more akward with regards piumbing as there's no void area at the back like some kitchens have, but that's easily got around anyway.

The ikea appliances are very good I think, as long as you avoid the base model which doesn't get the 5 year guarantee, I think the basic oven isn't a fan oven for example. They're rebadged whirlpool. They are quicker to fit than generic integrated appliances as ikea will have done all the measuring for you, and for example with the washing machine they include a specialist tool for drilling out the doors for hinges.


Keep in mind with ikea, where the cost goes up is on items like side cover panels, plinths, cornices, interior storage solutions, lighting etc.

If it were me, I would get a company who does kitchen doors to make new ones to the measurements of your existing ones (there's a company in Wicklow that does this) and just go for non integrated appliances, they're easier to deal with if there's a repair or replacement needed. IKEA do a nice range of cheaper solid wood worktops too, which will really transform an old kitchen.


This will be far less disruptive and will cost you much less. If this is a rental property you need to keep in mind that you want to make money.

I went to B and Q and they gave me a quote for circa 3300 with 300 off because of their spend 1000 100 off offer.

Will try Ikea this week actually though and see can they do anything with my reduced depth. Wont be placing the order with B and Q till Friday and up in Dublin till Thursday so worth a try

murphaph

Evil-p wrote: »

Really surprised you rate b & q kitchens. I think they look so cheap and flimsy. Also supply and fit for a b & q kitchen in at 11k for my kitchen. IKEA about 6 supplied and fitted and cash and carry kitchens around 8k. You would be mad to buy IKEA appliances. They rarely have sales and although they are good quality you will get cheaper on sale in currys/Harvey Normans/ power city. I bought a €600 10kg washing machine for €300 in currys on sale. Power city did me a deal and knocked €200 off when I bought multiple appliances with them. I got an IKEA dishwasher as it fits an IKEA kitchen and it's excellent.

But IKEA appliances have a 5 year warranty to factor in.

I would also go for an IKEA kitchen any day over B&Q. The B&Q line is IMO more likely to be discontinued before the IKEA one (Method is current, replacing the Faktum range which was there for years, so I think you have a good chance of getting replacement doors well into the future, allowing you to completely change the look of the kitchen but retaining the units).

I honestly think IKEA is impossible to beat in value for money terms. Shame the units don't seem to work for the OP

CruelCoin

OP, i'd go for whichever is bigger.

Trust me, you will get far greater satisfaction from the largest kitchen as opposed to the nicest.

jlm29

OAP, have you priced any small independent kitchen retailers over ikea/b&q? Some of them have surprisingly good value to be had -particularly the ones who don't have big showrooms to maintain. It's worth checking out, I imagine it'll be a lot less hassle!