How do you deal with a very difficult child whose violent

Airyfairy12

I started working in a Summer camp for the next 3 weeks, I have various experience working with children but im not a teacher or trained in dealing with children or classroom managment. One of the kids (aged 6) is very difficult, I dont know if he's a spoilt brat or has something wrong like Aspergers but he's very selfish, refuses to get involved in anything thats going on, I try to involve him and encourage him to play with the other children and he's fine for a few minutes then he starts getting nasty, pulling things out of their hands and throwing the item's back in their face or running off with it, shouting in their ears and faces, punching them...he was tickling one of the younger boys yesterday, the little boy was laughing, enjoying playing with him then the next thing he had him pinned up against a table being very creepy and intimidating with him, getting right up into his face, half laughing half growling and trying to hurt him, the little boy was terrified, I needed help from the older boys to separate them.
He picks on the smaller children and today I caught him holding a sharp pencil over one of their heads, it looked like he was about to try and stab him with it, I told him to give me the pencil, he eventually gave it to me by firing it across the room.
I tried to ignore him and not give him the attention but he sat and screamed continuously, when that didnt work for him he started screaming in other kids faces and spitting on them, punching them in the back and pushing them around. Ive shouted at him, he was given toys as distraction but he broke them, ive sent him down to the manager, ive warned him... nothing works. I dont want to leave him out of activities but involving him causes destruction, he's so angry, he walks around whispering in kids ears telling them to shut up, he pushes people out of his way and tells them to move. He's so horrible, he can snap at any time, just saying the wrong thing to him can cause him to explode. The manager is fully aware of his behaviour. Its not my place to contact his parents.

Cc17

First of all you don't ever shout at someone else's child. Second it sounds like yes this child has some sort of disorder and it actually is your place to say something to the parents as its Affecting the other children and their stay at summer camp. Also try have a little more understanding and compassion with kids WHO MIGHT have a disorder.

Airyfairy12

Cc17 wrote: »

First of all you don't ever shout at someone else's child. Second it sounds like yes this child has some sort of disorder and it actually is your place to say something to the parents as its Affecting the other children and their stay at summer camp. Also try have a little more understanding and compassion with kids WHO MIGHT have a disorder.

Shouting was a last resort as he was physically abusing other children in the class. I have plenty of compassion for children with disorders, most of my experience working with children has been with special needs kids. I'm asking for advice here not a belittling response. Youre not in the classroom with me you have no idea how much compassion I have or don't have so dont make accusations or assumptions. Also its NOT my place. It's the manager's place as she's the one in charge and communicates with parents. If you dont have a helpful response then dont respond. I swear some people use boards.ie just to have a go at other users.

Cc17

No you came onto boards to bitch about someone else's kid and be negative about the child. How about suggest to your manager to maybe have a talk with the parents. And if all else fails leave.

idnkph

Cc17 wrote:

No you came onto boards to bitch about someone else's kid and be negative about the child. How about suggest to your manager to maybe have a talk with the parents. And if all else fails leave.

Obviously you've never worked with kids before.

screamer

Disorder or not you can't let that behaviour continue. It is your place to say something as you have a duty of care to all the kids including this one. I would tell the manager that you are concerned about the safety of the other kids and request that he or she be present to assist with the child. If they refuse then i would tell them to remove the child from the group. There's no way id be risking my sanity and safety and that of the other kids over one child. if anything happened do you think the manager would be solely to blame? Nope you'd be right there too being asked to account for what happened.

December2012

discuss it with the owner and find out what the protocol is for this situation.

Has anybody running the camp studied managing children or childhood development?

Smondie

It's a bad set up if you can't directly approach the parents as they should be involved and you are the one dealing with the child and witnessing the behaviour and are the one responsible for managing it.

Your manager is aware, but has your manager witnessed this child in action? I would request the come sit in on some of your tasks. Have you asked her to contact the parents for a meeting?

Have you clear defined rules agreed with the children as to what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour? If not, they need to be made clear to the children and reinforced regularly. Hang them on a wall somewhere and refer to them as needed.

Have you any reward system in place, stars etc? Praise him when he is being good but tbh if he is getting physical with other children he needs to be removed. Is there an in-house reward/punishment system at all?

You need the support of your manager and the child's parents on this one. You should not be left to address the child's behaviour alone. What did your manager say after you sent him down?

Airyfairy12

screamer wrote: »

Disorder or not you can't let that behaviour continue. It is your place to say something as you have a duty of care to all the kids including this one. I would tell the manager that you are concerned about the safety of the other kids and request that he or she be present to assist with the child. If they refuse then i would tell them to remove the child from the group. There's no way id be risking my sanity and safety and that of the other kids over one child. if anything happened do you think the manager would be solely to blame? Nope you'd be right there too being asked to account for what happened.

I know I feel like I cant let him away with the bad behaviour as thats not helpful to anyone involved, I feel bad for shouting at him and I think it came as a surprise to other staff as im generally so quiet but I didnt know what to do? ive tried giving him extra attention, ive tried joking with him and tried getting him to ease up and get involved, I told him how the other kids would love to play with him and that they like him but they dont like it when he's being mean and to try to be friends rather than fight but he's just so angry, it will encourage him enough to come out of his corner and involve himself but then he gets nasty. Ive sent him down to the main hall as his behaviour was really intimidating other kids, they didnt want to be in the class. I dont want the manager in the room with me, I feel like im being watched and judged, she constantly wants me doing large projects with them which is impossible. 10 minutes a day on their projects is enough then they move onto something more self directed, theyre very young but seem to enjoy the class best this way but I did tell her about his behaviour, her son comes to my class too so im sure he fills her in also.

LuckyLoki

You need to have the parents in for a chat asap. See it as a fact finding exercise rather than a complaining session. He's six so he's probably done one or two years in primary so they must be aware of how he behaves in a school setting. If your manager has been informed of any special needs this child has and has chosen not to pass the information on to you, then I advise you to walk out the door. I cannot think of any situation you can be in where you are the adult primarily responsible for a child and be denied the right to communicate with the parents. That in itself is a red light.

Airyfairy12

December2012 wrote: »

discuss it with the owner and find out what the protocol is for this situation.

Has anybody running the camp studied managing children or childhood development?

No I dont think so

Smondie

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

screamer wrote: »

Disorder or not you can't let that behaviour continue. It is your place to say something as you have a duty of care to all the kids including this one. I would tell the manager that you are concerned about the safety of the other kids and request that he or she be present to assist with the child. If they refuse then i would tell them to remove the child from the group. There's no way id be risking my sanity and safety and that of the other kids over one child. if anything happened do you think the manager would be solely to blame? Nope you'd be right there too being asked to account for what happened.

I know I feel like I cant let him away with the bad behaviour as thats not helpful to anyone involved, I feel bad for shouting at him and I think it came as a surprise to other staff as im generally so quiet but I didnt know what to do? ive tried giving him extra attention, ive tried joking with him and tried getting him to ease up and get involved, I told him how the other kids would love to play with him and that they like him but they dont like it when he's being mean and to try to be friends rather than fight but he's just so angry, it will encourage him enough to come out of his corner and involve himself but then he gets nasty. Ive sent him down to the main hall as his behaviour was really intimidating other kids, they didnt want to be in the class. I dont want the manager in the room with me, I feel like im being watched and judged, she constantly wants me doing large projects with them which is impossible. 10 minutes a day on their projects is enough then they move onto something more self directed, theyre very young but seem to enjoy the class best this way but I did tell her about his behaviour, her son comes to my class too so im sure he fills her in also.

Your being watched and judged by however many children you have in the class. What difference will a manger being in the room watching and judging you? They may be able to offer you more practical solutions to the situation.

Airyfairy12

Smondie wrote: »

It's a bad set up if you can't directly approach the parents as they should be involved and you are the one dealing with the child and witnessing the behaviour and are the one responsible for managing it.

Your manager is aware, but has your manager witnessed this child in action? I would request the come sit in on some of your tasks. Have you asked her to contact the parents for a meeting?

Have you clear defined rules agreed with the children as to what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour? If not, they need to be made clear to the children and reinforced regularly. Hang them on a wall somewhere and refer to them as needed.

Have you any reward system in place, stars etc? Praise him when he is being good but tbh if he is getting physical with other children he needs to be removed. Is there an in-house reward/punishment system at all?

You need the support of your manager and the child's parents on this one. You should not be left to address the child's behaviour alone. What did your manager say after you sent him down?

She's well aware of it and she's seen it lots of times herself, when they play football he throws balls at other kids, if they play tennis he hits them with the racket. I always praise him lots when he's good, even just sitting quietly or talking nicely to another child, all of the other kids are very well behaved, no one has even retaliated to him by trying to hit him back or fight him, they push him back and move away, im amazed at their patience but im concerned for them too.
Surely the parents must be aware of his behaviour. He doesn't just act this way in camp. His teachers must have said something or would have been tested at least as he wont even comply with basic tasks.
Maybe the manager did tell his parents, she has threatened to already. I cant see it making a difference though, he's an only child and if it is a case of him being spoiled the parents will only ignore the problem.

Airyfairy12

Smondie wrote: »

Your being watched and judged by however many children you have in the class. What difference will a manger being in the room watching and judging you? They may be able to offer you more practical solutions to the situation.

I know but it's different when it's the kids. I'm not overly confident so feeling judged or watched on my performance I just find very inhibiting. She is completely aware of his behaviour, shes seen it herself, if he gets too much I tend to send him down to the hall where she is but after a while she just sends him back up then he starts again. Ive told her about his behaviour in my class too and others mentioned it to her aswel about his behaviour. Shes very aware of it.

KKkitty

This behaviour cannot go on. Other kids know how to behave but not this one. Only child or not this child needs some discipline. Keep on at whoever is in charge to get the parents in to have a talk. The other children came to enjoy themselves but this child is ruining the experience for them which isn't fair. Their parents didn't pay for them to be treated this way. It's not fair to you either.

Airyfairy12

LuckyLoki wrote: »

You need to have the parents in for a chat asap. See it as a fact finding exercise rather than a complaining session. He's six so he's probably done one or two years in primary so they must be aware of how he behaves in a school setting. If your manager has been informed of any special needs this child has and has chosen not to pass the information on to you, then I advise you to walk out the door. I cannot think of any situation you can be in where you are the adult primarily responsible for a child and be denied the right to communicate with the parents. That in itself is a red light.

I wasnt denied the right at all it just really isnt my place, the manager should be the one speak to them and I did say it to her about speaking with them, she's also witnessed his behaviour, I was thinking that maybe she didnt tell me that he had something? his own school had to have had him tested because his behaviours not normal.

LuckyLoki

It really is your place and your responsibility. Inform the manager you would like to speak to them and then contact them yourself. The manager may also like to be present. The object of the meeting would be to share information and look for solutions. In the meantime look at the child's enrollment form. They may have some information there.
Sometimes there are just no magic solutions. You will have to not only teach/entertain the summercamp, but also protect them from this child which will be difficult but sometimes that's just the dircumstances you have to deal with. Stay on him, communicate clearly what your expectations are and try and catch him before he does something wrong. Document his behaviour also in case things disimprove and you need to take further action.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I wasnt denied the right at all it just really isnt my place, the manager should be the one speak to them and I did say it to her about speaking with them, she's also witnessed his behaviour, I was thinking that maybe she didnt tell me that he had something? his own school had to have had him tested because his behaviours not normal.

Airyfairy12

LuckyLoki wrote: »

It really is your place and your responsibility. Inform the manager you would like to speak to them and then contact them yourself. The manager may also like to be present. The object of the meeting would be to share information and look for solutions. In the meantime look at the child's enrollment form. They may have some information there.
Sometimes there are just no magic solutions. You will have to not only teach/entertain the summercamp, but also protect them from this child which will be difficult but sometimes that's just the dircumstances you have to deal with. Stay on him, communicate clearly what your expectations are and try and catch him before he does something wrong. Document his behaviour also in case things disimprove and you need to take further action.

Yeah like I dont want to make a huge deal out of it or over step my mark and I feel like I do just have to entertain the camp and deal with the circumstances, which is fine, it's part of the job but ive never had experience with a child this difficult before, I wonder how teachers handle a very difficult child in a classroom? surely theres a way to manage the behaviour.

Smondie

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

LuckyLoki wrote: »

It really is your place and your responsibility. Inform the manager you would like to speak to them and then contact them yourself. The manager may also like to be present. The object of the meeting would be to share information and look for solutions. In the meantime look at the child's enrollment form. They may have some information there.
Sometimes there are just no magic solutions. You will have to not only teach/entertain the summercamp, but also protect them from this child which will be difficult but sometimes that's just the dircumstances you have to deal with. Stay on him, communicate clearly what your expectations are and try and catch him before he does something wrong. Document his behaviour also in case things disimprove and you need to take further action.

Yeah like I dont want to make a huge deal out of it or over step my mark and I feel like I do just have to entertain the camp and deal with the circumstances, which is fine, it's part of the job but ive never had experience with a child this difficult before, I wonder how teachers handle a very difficult child in a classroom? surely theres a way to manage the behaviour.

It is a huge deal though. You need to be more assertive with your manager. Teachers call the parents in and discuss the issue. Not being able to deal with the child alone is not a weakness, refusing to ask for help and address the situation is.

KKkitty

It's really easy for others to say do this or that but they're not the ones who have to deal with this child or the ramifications of anything to do with the situation. If I were you I'd move to have this child excluded from the camp to ease the experience for other children. If this child has a condition maybe the parents should address it and enrol them in a camp when the child is able to be around others without being disruptive or violent.

_Whimsical_

Wow OP what a horrible situation for everyone in involved. I don't think it is your place to speak to the parents however I would put your concerns in writing to the manager. An email would do. Give her examples of the behaviour, outline your concerns and fears for the safety of other children and tell her you feel it needs to be discussed with parents. If there's something in writing it might force her hand, it also protects you a little so make sure you have a copy.

There's no way she should be letting this situation continue unchecked. This behaviour sounds too severe to have gone unnoticed before so I imagine your manager is aware of the childs problem. If she is then she has a duty of care to him and the other children to only take him on the course of she can provide extra specialised help to supervise him and help him to integrate. She's being very seriously negligent here if she's not providing him what he needs and not listening to you.

Big Bag of Chips

When the parents come to collect him and say the usual "how did he get on today", I think that is the perfect opportunity to say a very general, "we had a few issues" and give a few examples. I have children, and anywhere they have ever been if they've done anything out of the ordinary I've been told about. Maybe I haven't been told everything, like small everyday childish behaviour, but certainly if they'd ever done anything that warranted mentioning, it was mentioned.

Everything you have described warrants mentioning.

I know you say you are quiet, and shy, and not very confident etc, but you are working with children. Working with children takes on a whole different level of responsibility. If you are the one in charge of this child, the responsibility is on you to report to the parents if something is happening with their child. It will be good experience for you to deal with this.

You don't have to go all in with a list of problems and an amateur diagnoses, but you absolutely should tell the parents if their child hit another child with a tennis racquet. Or threatened or bullied another child. You are the point of contact in that group. You might soon find the other parents coming to you making complaints that their child is upset, or doesn't want to go back. They won't go looking for the manager first, they will look for you, because you are the one who is in charge of their children. The manager is in a different room most of the day.

This is all work "experience" for you, and part of that experience is learning how to handle difficult situations. I think you need tell the parents when they come that their child has hurt another child/children. If a child is that hyper and disruptive them I don't think a talking from their parents is going to solve much over night, but at least if you flag it with them, and get the manager involved too then you have multiple people who now have the responsibility to monitor and manage this.

The comfort of all the other children cannot be compromised over one child. If he needs an SNA with him then he should have one (one of his parents, a relative who can sit with him and monitor him for the entire time) if he's just downright bold then that is not fair on the other children and again he needs fulltime supervision or to be removed.

Usually the only way very disruptive children can be monitored is by constant supervision. Which means somebody, one person, whose only job is to shadow that child for the day and get in there to stop anything before it happens.


Edit:
Just on the responsibility to let the parents know what their child is doing - you also have a responsibility to let the parents of the other children know that they're child was hit/hurt by another child that day. You are dealing with very young children. If this lad is 6, I assume you are dealing with 5 and 6 years olds. Some 5 and 6 years olds would be well able to speak up for themselves and tell, others wouldn't.

I'd question how much training the manager has herself in childcare and working with small children, if she is not aware of the correct protocol when dealing with this kind of thing. If word gets around about how lax she is she mightn't find too many coming back to her camp again.

byhookorbycrook

Document all the facts . Time , date etc. What action you have taken . Ask the manager to organise a meeting with the parents and make sure your manager is aware of every single incident . You can't make a call on whether the child has Sen and could find yourself in hot water if you tried . Don't give opinion stick to facts only and ensure your manager knows how if impacts on the other children .

Other parents should be notified of their child is hurt .

When you have the parents in , ask them what rewards and sanctions they use at home . Focus on how you want to help their child and how other children are being frightened and hurt .

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Document all the facts . Time , date etc. What action you have taken . Ask the manager to organise a meeting with the parents and make sure your manager is aware of every single incident . You can't make a call on whether the child has Sen and could find yourself in hot water if you tried . Don't give opinion stick to facts only and ensure your manager knows how if impacts on the other children .

Other parents should be notified of their child is hurt .

When you have the parents in , ask them what rewards and sanctions they use at home . Focus on how you want to help their child and how other children are being frightened and hurt .

AS above but send an email so there is a record of you passing it up the chain.

By the extreme behaviour it wouldn't be too much to guess that the parents know exactly what the child is like from school and interacting with other kids etc.
Basically they are using you as a babysitting service and have zero regard for the other kids' experience.