Bad teachers may banned from the classroom for misconduct or poor performance

steddyeddy

We all had bad teachers at school. Most of the teachers out there are good but many students are subjected to bad teachers who either don't know how to teach the subject, don't enable the students to reach their potential and worst of all worked against a students potential. Now it seems there may be a solution whereby the students, parents or other teachers. For me this is the number one thing they could do to improve education across the board. Many students who have bad teachers might now be listened to as well as parents and other teachers. The worst schools in our country could benefit most from this. From the Irish Times. If I could do one thing to improve education for the worst off this would have been it.

Teachers could be banned from the classroom for serious
misconduct or poor performance under fitness-to-teach measures due to come into
force from today.
The first hearings, likely to be held with the next nine to
12 months, will be held in public by default.
However, disciplinary committees, on which teachers will have
a majority, may opt to hold them in private where there is “reasonable and
sufficient cause” to do so.
Parents, students or other teachers may bring their concerns
about any registered teachers to the regulatory body for the teachers, the Teaching Council, from today.
Speaking ahead of the official announcement, Minister for
Education Richard
Bruton said the measures would help the profession to become more
open and accountable.
“It will support high professional standards among teachers
in the interests of children and parents, and will enhance the reputation and
status of the teaching profession,” Mr Bruton said.

Disciplinary procedures
Fitness-to-teach measures have been in place in neighbouring
jurisdictions such as Scotland for decades and have been provided for here
in legislation which was enacted 15 years ago. The process broadly mirrors
disciplinary procedures in place for the nursing and medical profession.
Underperformance or misconduct will continue to be dealt with
first at school level.
It is intended these school procedures should be exhausted
before any inquiry by the Teaching Council takes place, though the council can
proceed where there are “good and sufficient reasons”.

An investigating committee will exam complaints and decide if
there is merit in referring the case to a disciplinary committee for hearing.
These inquiries will involve the hearing of sworn oral evidence.
If a finding is made against a teacher, sanctions will be
available ranging from a written warning to removal from the teachers’ register
for up to two years. Teachers may appeal more serious sanctions to the High Court.

Tomás Ó Ruairc, director of the Teaching Council, said the
measures were about “improving teaching, not punishing teachers”. Teaching, he
said, affected the lives of every person in our society in a way that no other
profession does.

“That’s why professional standards matter so much and why
it’s vital that a formal mechanism exists to allow for the investigation of
complaints,” Mr Ó Ruairc said.
Today’s announcement follows a series of developments aimed
at improving accountability of schools and giving parents and students greater
access to information.
The Government last week announced it would support a Bill by
Fine Gael TD Jim Daly to improve information and complaints
procedures for parents relating to schools and boards of management.

Your Face

What about bad students?

GLaDOS

I'd be surprised if many teachers were actually banned as a result of this.

There does need to be some sort of enforcement of standards though, I had several teachers in secondary school who were not fit to teach at all.

SEPT 23 1989

Teachers investigating teachers

Gatling

It will be used by parents as weapon for getting little mary or Jonny upset in class

steddyeddy

Your Face wrote: »

What about bad students?

Bad students hardly reap a lot of benefits do they? Bad teachers get a pension.

darkpagandeath

Bad teachers should be fired..... You don't meet the criteria for the job bye bye...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Problem isn't the teachers (althoguh bad teachers don't help) or the students, it's the bloody syllabus. Sort that out and put some worthwhile and interesting ideas in there, tell people to **** off with their "exams-are-eveything" mantra and actually educate the kids and you'll see aworld of difference.

Your Face

steddyeddy wrote: »

Bad students hardly reap a lot of benefits do they? Bad teachers get a pension.

So its the pension you're after.

Gatling

Id rather see retired teachers actually retired and free up jobs for younger teachers first

eoinzy2000

A system that no doubt will be completely abused. I feel sorry for the good teachers that are going to have to defend themselves against bogus complaints. The issue of bad teachers should be dealt with by management. If a principal is not capable of managing his/her staff and raising standards, as is the duty of any manager, then the performance standards should apply to them. I don't think that providing a forum for moaning feckers will make anything other than a slow down in educational standards. Another hair brained solution to a real problem. The problem may be that the school principal is not accountable for poor staff performance, and possibly a protectionist culture within the public service educational sector. A good principal should be capable of weeding out the sh*te though

The_Kew_Tour

About time. Teachers like any profession should be treated the same, if you don't deliver you get the sack.

PMBC

IMHO this will be to the benefit of teachers. For sure they all know who is good and who is bad in the staff-room. I had a fair mixture ranging from poor to excellent in my time; my children were very aware who was good and who was bad in their time particularly who really wasn't making an effort. It created a bad impression of the school and of all teachers, unfortunately.

steddyeddy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Problem isn't the teachers (althoguh bad teachers don't help) or the students, it's the bloody syllabus. Sort that out and put some worthwhile and interesting ideas in there, tell people to **** off with their "exams-are-eveything" mantra and actually educate the kids and you'll see aworld of difference.

I agree the syllabus is the problem as well. The leaving cert syllabus of chemistry and biology is woeful. It's not what we learn in uni.

steddyeddy

PMBC wrote: »

IMHO this will be to the benefit of teachers. For sure they all know who is good and who is bad in the staff-room. I had a fair mixture ranging from poor to excellent in my time; my children were very aware who was good and who was bad in their time particularly who really wasn't making an effort. It created a bad impression of the school and of all teachers, unfortunately.

Of course it will. A friend of mine is a teacher at a school where some teachers don't pull their weight. He does but it's considered a bad school and as a result his career prospects aren't what they should be.

steddyeddy

Gatling wrote: »

It will be used by parents as weapon for getting little mary or Jonny upset in class

You don't think any student ever had a valid reason to complain against a teacher. A bit biased?

Kh1993

No problem with the idea, but I wouldn't trust the Teaching Council as far as I could throw them.Another quango who try to say they are raising and protecting standards, for a nice fee of €90 a year.

I'd like to think schools and management would be able to deal with most issues, and that potential baseless and vindictive complaints wouldn't be aired in public.

steddyeddy

Kh1993 wrote: »

No problem with the idea, but I wouldn't trust the Teaching Council as far as I could throw them.Another quango who try to say they are raising and protecting standards, for a nice fee of €90 a year.

I'd like to think schools and management would be able to deal with most issues, and that potential baseless and vindictive complaints wouldn't be aired in public.

But they don't deal with them.

corner of hells

Threads disappoints, I thought there was going to be loads of examples of bad teachers a bit like Cameron Diaz .

Ted111

There's the makings of a reality tv show in this.

Gatling

steddyeddy wrote: »

You don't think any student ever had a valid reason to complain against a teacher. A bit biased?

Of course but I'm also very much aware how parents are quick to say there kids are been victimised by teachers for poor behaviour,

Im on my kids school parents committee and you might be surprised how much bitching goes on about teachers due for no apparent reason

Little CuChulainn

steddyeddy wrote: »

You don't think any student ever had a valid reason to complain against a teacher. A bit biased?

That's not even close to what he said. You talk about bias. I think you should look at your own posts. You obviously had some issue with a teacher in the past and have a chip on your shoulder about it.

There should definitely be a mechanism for dealing with poor teachers but it will definitely be abused by some. Many parents blame the teacher for issues that are more likely caused at home.

Dave0301

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

You don't think any student ever had a valid reason to complain against a teacher. A bit biased?

There should definitely be a mechanism for dealing with poor teachers but it will definitely be abused by some. Many parents blame the teacher for issues that are more likely caused at home.

As a teacher myself, I have no problem with teachers being held accountable and subject to fair scrunity.

Parents and students being able to bring forward complaints could be problematic unless there are robust procedures in place that are not subject to abuse.

One potential problem could be the Junior Cert reforms which involve teachers marking coursework. I could see this being used as a stick to beat teachers with if the results are not in line with student/parental expectation.

It is more common nowadays in every walk of life to look for someone else to blame when things don't go your way, and this could be another opportunity for that to happen.

Mrmoe

I don't know if this will make a difference. I assume that any teacher that is banned will still be employed and can return to teach after two years?

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

You don't think any student ever had a valid reason to complain against a teacher. A bit biased?

I don't think you understand how it will work, it will be used for teacher who come to work having consumed alcohol or drugs or who psychical or sexually abuse students, who engage inappropriate conversation or contact with a student, who refuse to teach the curriculum and possibly teachers who are psychically or mentally unwell and refuse to get treatment and because of that are a risk to the students.

Choochtown

Mrmoe wrote: »

I don't know if this will make a difference. I assume that any teacher that is banned will still be employed and can return to teach after two years?

It's all in the hands of the Teaching Council. Every teacher is forced to pay them €90 to register and €65 a year to stay registered. Teachers that are not registered are not paid at all.

So if the Teaching Council takes away a teachers registration then they can't get a teaching job.

steddyeddy

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That's not even close to what he said. You talk about bias. I think you should look at your own posts. You obviously had some issue with a teacher in the past and have a chip on your shoulder about it.

There should definitely be a mechanism for dealing with poor teachers but it will definitely be abused by some. Many parents blame the teacher for issues that are more likely caused at home.

Yes I have issues with teachers who aren't fit for purpose. Most people have had bad teachers.

Ave Sodalis

I think a system like they have in Holland would be a great way to go. They have a high value on education. We have a friend of the family who's job is to go around schools in the area every year and ask each school which teachers want to stay and which want to leave. Any teacher who wants to leave gets help to retrain and change job.

steddyeddy

Gatling wrote: »

Of course but I'm also very much aware how parents are quick to say there kids are been victimised by teachers for poor behaviour,

Im on my kids school parents committee and you might be surprised how much bitching goes on about teachers due for no apparent reason

I wouldn't be surprised at all. I know there's bad parents who blame the teachers. I just want a mechanism whereby we can get rid of clearly bad teachers.

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with a process where any teacher even accused of something will be publicly named in the event of a public inquiry - i.e. such naming doesn't have to wait until a teacher is found guilty of whatever is the charge?

If named in this way any innocent teacher may kiss goodbye to her/his career in our tiny society where "no smoke without fire" is not far from the back of the mind of most members of the public. I have no problem with any other aspect of this process but it's frankly astounding that the teachers' unions consented to this "publicly named before found guilty" clause. It's an injustice waiting to happen.

This is a wider problem with our so-called justice system that was discussed in this thread.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with a process where any teacher even accused of something will be publicly named in the event of a public inquiry - i.e. such naming doesn't have to wait until a teacher is found guilty of whatever is the charge?

If named in this way any innocent teacher may kiss goodbye to her/his career in our tiny society where "no smoke without fire" is not far from the back of the mind of most members of the public. I have no problem with any other aspect of this process but it's frankly astounding that the teachers' unions consented to this "publicly named before found guilty" clause. It's an injustice waiting to happen.

This is a wider problem with our so-called justice system that was discussed in this thread.

I don't think a public hearing is a good idea either.