Valuation of property

pacelut

Hi all,

As a buyer, who pays for the valuation, would I get a copy of the valuation from the valuers assigned by the bank, or do I have to ask the bank for it?

Thanks in advance!

Gumbo

The bank usually send someone themselves. That's what UB done last year when we bought.

But we bought twice during the boom, 2 different banks and we had to pay for the valuation at €130 each.

wench

With AIB, they provide a list of acceptable valuers for you to choose from.
I paid the valuer directly (€130), and he sent me two copies of the result, one for me and one for the bank.

Hazydays123

UB sent me out my valuation. It was pretty crap. I'd have been raging if i'd actually paid for it.

Gumbo

Hazydays123 wrote: »

UB sent me out my valuation. It was pretty crap. I'd have been raging if i'd actually paid for it.

All it is a visual inspection of the outside of the property. It confirms location, that there is an actual house and rough valuation. Its not supposed to be a report type of document, that's what you pay your surveyor for.

They don't even need access, and they don't even have to tell you when its taking place.

Hazydays123

kceire wrote: »

All it is a visual inspection of the outside of the property. It confirms location, that there is an actual house and rough valuation. Its not supposed to be a report type of document, that's what you pay your surveyor for.

They don't even need access, and they don't even have to tell you when its taking place.

I know. As I said above, I've seen my own one.
I was merely stating that I would have been annoyed if I had to pay 150eur for it which is what some other banks make you do.

intheclouds

wench wrote: »

With AIB, they provide a list of acceptable valuers for you to choose from.
I paid the valuer directly (€130), and he sent me two copies of the result, one for me and one for the bank.

Yeah they did this with me before and the guy arrived, and right in front of me phoned the estate agent and asked the price and then wrote that on the valuation and asked me for 150 quid. Biggest scam I ever saw.

Hazydays123

intheclouds wrote: »

Yeah they did this with me before and the guy arrived, and right in front of me phoned the estate agent and asked the price and then wrote that on the valuation and asked me for 150 quid. Biggest scam I ever saw.

Valuer said my property was 30yrs older than it actually is. He could have just asked the estate agent. It's a fairly basic detail.
The description of the property was literally lifted word for word from the daft.ie advert.

davo10

A valuation is literally the guy/gal turning up, viewing the house from the outside a confirming that it may be worth roughly what the mortgage amount is, nothing more, it is not a survey.

The logic of it is that it protects the bank from fraud. Let's imagine the op and his buddy agree a price of €500k for a house which is actually a cow shed. The money is advanced to the op and he buys the shed. Now the bank is €500k down and might have hold over an asset worth €20k. Had a valuation been done it would be obvious that this cow shed did not match the description given nor the value of the mortgage being lent. You can't blame the banks for wanting to see the asset the are loaning the money for.

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

A valuation is literally the guy/gal turning up, viewing the house from the outside a confirming that it may be worth roughly what the mortgage amount is, nothing more, it is not a survey.

The logic of it is that it protects the bank from fraud. Let's imagine the op and his buddy agree a price of €500k for a house which is actually a cow shed. The money is advanced to the op and he buys the shed. Now the bank is €500k down and might have hold over an asset worth €20k. Had a valuation been done it would be obvious that this cow shed did not match the description given nor the value of the mortgage being lent. You can't blame the banks for wanting to see the asset the are loaning the money for.

I know what it is, but if the guy turns up and just phones the estate agent and writes down what they say, it's a total rip off to ask for 150-200 quid for it.

How likely is it that estate agents are listing cowsheds worth 20k for 500k on public websites?

davo10

intheclouds wrote: »

I know what it is, but if the guy turns up and just phones the estate agent and writes down what they say, it's a total rip off to ask for 150-200 quid for it.

How likely is it that estate agents are listing cowsheds worth 20k for 500k on public websites?

But the valuer has to be paid, and that's about €75-€100 after tax, hardly a fortune.

Nothing to do with EA or websites, it's about the bank wanting to be sure that there is an asset which corresponds to the amount being loaned.

If you feel it's a rip off, tell the lender you are refusing to pay it.

CollyFlower

A valuer would get more information doing a Google Street view search and checking out daft.ie or watherver site the property is advertise on. Seem like a rip-off to me.

davo10

CollyFlower wrote: »

A valuer would get more information doing a Google Street view search and checking out daft.ie or watherver site the property is advertise on. Seem like a rip-off to me.

Would you make a non refundable bid on a property based only on Google street view or daft or, would you loan €50k to someone you don't know without finding out about what the loan is for?

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

But the valuer has to be paid, and that's about €75-€100 after tax, hardly a fortune.

Nothing to do with EA or websites, it's about the bank wanting to be sure that there is an asset which corresponds to the amount being loaned.

If you feel it's a rip off, tell the lender you are refusing to pay it.

100 after tax for a 2 minute phone call. Yes, it's a rip off. He isn't using any special skills.

Buyers are over a barrel. They HAVE to do it or else the bank won't lend. I'm happy with the bank valuing the asset, but charging people 150-200 quid for a 2 minute service is a total rip off.

There are a few things in this world that you have no choice but to be ripped off on, and this is one of them. But at least be honest and call it what it is.

davo10

intheclouds wrote: »

100 after tax for a 2 minute phone call. Yes, it's a rip off. He isn't using any special skills.

Buyers are over a barrel. They HAVE to do it or else the bank won't lend. I'm happy with the bank valuing the asset, but charging people 150-200 quid for a 2 minute service is a total rip off.

There are a few things in this world that you have no choice but to be ripped off on, and this is one of them. But at least be honest and call it what it is.

This presumably after being teleported to the site for that 2 minute phone call and back again to the office and then the report writes itself. If there are no special skills, why don't you do it if it's that easy?

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

This presumably after being teleported to the site for that 2 minute phone call and back again to the office and then the report writes itself. If there are no special skills, why don't you do it if it's that easy?

Actually the guy AIB told me to use asked me to collect him and bring him to the property.

There was no "report" written, he wrote "I confirm the valuation of xxx for the address" on a piece of paper and signed it and handed it to me there and then. It was I who had to pass it into the bank.

Then he asked me to give him a lift to somewhere else (I'd taken time off work for the valuation and the bulk of the time was spent taxiing this dude around). Perhaps I should have charged him standard taxi rates.

I certainly would do it, it's an easy money spin from what I can see! Although it wouldn't sit easy with me to rip people off. I'm not a con man.

Dr.Rieux

intheclouds wrote: »

Actually the guy AIB told me to use asked me to collect him and bring him to the property.

There was no "report" written, he wrote "I confirm the valuation of xxx for the address" on a piece of paper and signed it and handed it to me there and then. It was I who had to pass it into the bank.

Then he asked me to give him a lift to somewhere else (I'd taken time off work for the valuation and the bulk of the time was spent taxiing this dude around). Perhaps I should have charged him standard taxi rates.

I certainly would do it, it's an easy money spin from what I can see! Although it wouldn't sit easy with me to rip people off. I'm not a con man.

AIB have a format of valuation that they will accept, so I assume he wrote that up and sent it also?

intheclouds

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

AIB have a format of valuation that they will accept, so I assume he wrote that up and sent it also?

Dunno, he gave me what I stated to send into them. It was more than 10 years ago now, and I might add, the valuation was bull****, an inflated market with banks accepting valuations of crazy money for places. If anyone had been doing their job properly they would have said no to the boomtime valuations.

If all a valuation is, is what the current market dictates, then the banks should just look for a copy of the estate agent listing.

davo10

intheclouds wrote: »

Actually the guy AIB told me to use asked me to collect him and bring him to the property.

There was no "report" written, he wrote "I confirm the valuation of xxx for the address" on a piece of paper and signed it and handed it to me there and then. It was I who had to pass it into the bank.

Then he asked me to give him a lift to somewhere else (I'd taken time off work for the valuation and the bulk of the time was spent taxiing this dude around). Perhaps I should have charged him standard taxi rates.

I certainly would do it, it's an easy money spin from what I can see! Although it wouldn't sit easy with me to rip people off. I'm not a con man.

There's a famous story about Henry Ford, in the early days of automation he could not get the automated assembly line to work the way he thought it should. So he brought an engineer over from Germany, the guy looked around for a while and then started to draw lines in the floor where the machines were to be positioned . Ford got a bill for $10k and when he questioned why he should pay for a few lines drawn in chalk of the floor, he was told the chalk lines were free of charge, but the knowledge of where to draw them costs $10k. It doesn't cost anything to write the report but you do have to be qualified to write it.

Chet T16

Our valuation was 150 and the guy used a standard 3 page haven report that included rental value and rebuild cost.

Our solicitor told us that since January banks are insisting that drawdown must take place within 2 months of the valuation so a lot of people are paying for two valuations now.

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

There's a famous story about Henry Ford, in the early days of automation he could not get the automated assembly line to work the way he thought it should. So he brought an engineer over from Germany, the guy looked around for a while and then started to draw lines in the floor where the machines were to be positioned . Ford got a bill for $10k and when he questioned why he should pay for a few lines drawn in chalk of the floor, he was told the chalk lines were free of charge, but the knowledge of where to draw them costs $10k. It doesn't cost anything to write the report but you do have to be qualified to write it.

I'd be delighted if he had employed some knowledge! But he phoned the estate agent and wrote down what they said. Anyone could have done it.

You seem very keen to defend what was quite clearly a total load of nonsense.

Gumbo

intheclouds wrote: »

100 after tax for a 2 minute phone call. Yes, it's a rip off. He isn't using any special skills.

Buyers are over a barrel. They HAVE to do it or else the bank won't lend. I'm happy with the bank valuing the asset, but charging people 150-200 quid for a 2 minute service is a total rip off.

There are a few things in this world that you have no choice but to be ripped off on, and this is one of them. But at least be honest and call it what it is.

Not really as most banks don't charge the customer now a days for it. Sounds like AIB screwed you over!

During the boom it was the done thing. €130 a pop I paid but it was part and parcel of buying.

davo10

intheclouds wrote: »

I'd be delighted if he had employed some knowledge! But he phoned the estate agent and wrote down what they said. Anyone could have done it.

You seem very keen to defend what was quite clearly a total load of nonsense.

Anyone employed by the bank to do it and who has the necessary qualifications. It makes no difference to me whether you get a mortgage or not, I'm only trying to explain why a valuation is necessary for the approval of a mortgage. Yes it's a box ticking exercise, but a necessary one for the bank to b sure that there is an asset which relates to the amount being lent. It's simple if you think about it.

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

Anyone employed by the bank to do it and who has the necessary qualifications. It makes no difference to me whether you get a mortgage or not, I'm only trying to explain why a valuation is necessary for the approval of a mortgage. Yes it's a box ticking exercise, but a necessary one for the bank to b sure that there is an asset which relates to the amount being lent. It's simple if you think about it.

He wasn't employed by the bank. He was actually a retired engineer who AIB used because they trusted him (their words). The whole experience felt very unprofessional and brown envelopey.

A box ticking rip off. It sure is simple, it's not like the buyer can refuse right? Just a simple bit of extortion.

Dr.Rieux

intheclouds wrote: »

He wasn't employed by the bank. He was actually a retired engineer who AIB used because they trusted him (their words). The whole experience felt very unprofessional and brown envelopey.

A box ticking rip off. It sure is simple, it's not like the buyer can refuse right? Just a simple bit of extortion.

This was ten years ago? Doesn't really apply to the discussion on what a valuation is today.

For AIB now there is a standardised form which requires the valuer to go into the property, rather than the brown envelope style deal you describe.

intheclouds

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

This was ten years ago? Doesn't really apply to the discussion on what a valuation is today.

For AIB now there is a standardised form which requires the valuer to go into the property, rather than the brown envelope style deal you describe.

I'll be getting one done for AIB shortly, I'll report back the differences.

davo10

intheclouds wrote: »

I'll be getting one done for AIB shortly, I'll report back the differences.

Excellent, now you have an opportunity to call a halt to this rip off and refuse to consent to this valuation. Or, as suggested previously you could use the advertised/EA amount, of course this may effect your loan to value ratio and cost you more due to the higher interest rate.

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

Excellent, now you have an opportunity to call a halt to this rip off and refuse to consent to this valuation. Or, as suggested previously you could use the advertised/EA amount, of course this may effect your loan to value ratio and cost you more due to the higher interest rate.

You must have a comprehension problem.

I already pointed out that you're over a barrel for it. You can't refuse if you want the mortgage. Don't you understand that?

I see no problem telling it like it is. A rip off. One you've no choice but to go along with.

Hazydays123

I really don't think the purchaser should have to pay for the valuation. At the end of the day the bank only want it for their own benefit so as to ensure that they have a chance of getting their money back by selling the property on if you default.
Essentially it's part of the same risk analysis procedure that they carry out on the customer at the underwriting stage. If they don't charge you for all the work that goes into underwriting your application then they shouldn't charge you for this.

My bank don't pass this charge onto the customer so obviously they take the same stance as I do on it.
Maybe you should mention to your bank that UB for example don't charge and you think it's a bit cheap of them to do so. If enough people say it to them they might change policy.

davo10

intheclouds wrote: »

You must have a comprehension problem.

I already pointed out that you're over a barrel for it. You can't refuse if you want the mortgage. Don't you understand that?

I see no problem telling it like it is. A rip off. One you've no choice but to go along with.

As a consumer you always have a choice, you can get a mortgage from a bank which does not charge the customer for the valuation. Another poster has said that UB do not charge the customer, why not apply for a mortgage with them? Comprehend?

http://www.valuations.ie/faq.html

Dr.Rieux

davo10 wrote: »

As a consumer you always have a choice, you can get a mortgage from a bank which does not charge the customer for the valuation. Another poster has said that UB do not charge the customer, why not apply for a mortgage with them? Comprehend?

http://www.valuations.ie/faq.html

We are getting our mortgage with AIB, and have paid for the valuation ourselves. Our monthly repayment will be €1592.62, with UB the same mortgage would have a repayment of €1779.26. Within one month we are saving money by not going with UB.

House price of 455k, mortgage of 386k. First time buyers 35 year term variable (3.5% vs 4.3%).

Evil-p

I drew down an AIB mortgage last September. I picked the local agent off the list (Dublin 9). The valuer collected the keys from the estate agent. Had a decent look around the house, as some of the info in the report couldn't have been found otherwise. He rang me for a chat about the house and sent me a copy of the report he sent to AIB. Honestly it was worth every penny to get a perspective of a different estate agent with no vested interest. Money well spent in my opinion.

A friend is currently buying, not AIB but they do have to pay the valuation. She witnessed the valuer literally driving by the house last week and calling it a valuation.