Yanks abandon EVs and BEVs for gas guzzlers

RedorDead

Due to dropping gas prices they are running back to gas guzzling SUVs and Pickups.

http://nyti.ms/292917b

Will the same happen here?

Americans are always changing when fuel prices go up and down, this is nothing new. The funny thing is that we pay over twice what they do in the U.S for fuel yet EV sales are laughable. If the tables were turned and ICE sales would die in the U.S.

The same won't happen here because EV sales are pathetic anyway.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Americans are always changing when fuel prices go up and down, this is nothing new. The funny thing is that we pay over twice what they do in the U.S for fuel yet EV sales are laughable. If the tables were turned and ICE sales would die in the U.S.

The same won't happen here because EV sales are pathetic anyway.

Because on average we don't commute as much as Americans.

Renegade Mechanic

RedorDead wrote: »

Due to dropping gas prices they are running back to gas guzzling SUVs and Pickups.

http://nyti.ms/292917b

Will the same happen here?

Not a hope in hell. They'll just raise the prices to keep them up. Like always. Oil is back down to $35 but ir was touching $48 a while back - despite the tanker traffic jams... - And I was looking at over €1.30 everywhere.
€1.27 yesterday. On $35 oil.....

Don't worry our govt will make damn sure we'll never stray too far below 'ten dollar gas'.
It's probably killing them right now that it's under the equivalent of $8 :rolleyes:

grogi

grogi wrote: »

Because on average we don't commute as much as Americans.

Really ? I doubt that now, I'd say if you average it up you'd be surprised how far we commute.

I'd say it's far more to do with the size of the vehicles Americans demand to drive and the engine size and being mostly Petrol.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Really ? I doubt that now, I'd say if you average it up you'd be surprised how far we commute.

I'd say it's far more to do with the size of the vehicles Americans demand to drive and the engine size and being mostly Petrol.

You're right - we are comuting more now...

Americans want big and power, we can't afford it because we are screwed with tax.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

Because on average we don't commute as much as Americans.

we commute more , we have an annual 14,000Km for diesel owners whilst the average American is 13800 Km

unkel

New car sales are up in Ireland 20% compared to last year. EV sales are down 20%

I find that pretty shocking. Did not see that coming, especially with the current good deals on the Leaf, the big subsidy, the free electricity and the free home install (some or most of these are no doubt ending at some point)

I've no figures for PHEV, although surely they must have gone up. BMW 330e for the same money as a 318d is a no brainer!

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

New car sales are up in Ireland 20% compared to last year. EV sales are down 20%

I find that pretty shocking. Did not see that coming, especially with the current good deals on the Leaf, the big subsidy, the free electricity and the free home install (some or most of these are no doubt ending at some point)

I've no figures for PHEV, although surely they must have gone up. BMW 330e for the same money as a 318d is a no brainer!

Conservative country that doesn't look into facts and figures and instead makes knee jerk decisions.
When they tax the feck out of diesel or maybe allow EVs into a bus lane then everyone down the pub will be discussing changing over.

Del2005

s.welstead wrote: »

Conservative country that doesn't look into facts and figures and instead makes knee jerk decisions.
When they tax the feck out of diesel or maybe allow EVs into a bus lane then everyone down the pub will be discussing changing over.

Why should EVs be allowed in bus lanes? They are still private cars with usually 1 person in it. Bus lanes are for buses, bicycles and taxis (which completely abuse them) not private cars which pump their pollution out of a power station exhaust not their own.

grogi

Del2005 wrote: »

Why should EVs be allowed in bus lanes? They are still private cars with usually 1 person in it. Bus lanes are for buses, bicycles and taxis (which completely abuse them) not private cars which pump their pollution out of a power station exhaust not their own.

Without incentives the demand for EV will not reach levels that guarantees effect of scale.

It is all about long-term strategy - if we want to have much more EV years from now, we need to subside EV in various ways, so the production and research of them does not mean loosing too much money. Allowing them in bus lanes is one of such, non-monetary, subsidies.

650Ginge

BoatMad wrote: »

we commute more , we have an annual 14,000Km for diesel owners whilst the average American is 13800 Km

Accordingly to the last census and the Washington post. Irish commuters travel on average 17kms. Americans commuters travel 24.5 miles. Americans win or is that lose.

In any case both distances are well within EV ranges.

I think eV sales in Ireland have dropped this year while the car market overall has grown 20+%. Why? I don't know. But I do think that evs have probably not got passed the early adopter demographic. As such the market is much smaller and less likely to grow with an up turn in economic prosperity and access to PCP.

I would love an EV tested a leaf 3 years ago. But they don't make sense for me just yet. I 2/3 times a month trip in excess of 200 miles. I also have two large dogs so currently drive an larhe enough diesel estate. I hate that diesel grumble. Previously I had a mk2 prius for 4 years. I miss it in ways.

cros13

The drop in EV sales in the US and Ireland is in large part due to a lot of people delaying their purchase to late 2016 early 2017 to get the much longer range models.

We have a new facelifted Leaf hitting production in December with 250-300km of real world range.
New 400km range Chevy Bolt (Opel Ampera-e) went into production this week.
New eGolf and eUp just out but a battery upgrade due in the next three to four months.
New Renault Zoe R400 (400km NEDC, 300km real world range) due to be unveiled at the Paris motor show starting Oct 1st
Tesla Model 3 due in the US the end of next year and RHD markets in H1 2018, lots of existing EV owners have deposits down.
New Jaguar E-Pace SUV due next year.

Because the market is currently composed of a small number of relatively well-informed people, the expectation of new models coming down the road causes a huge number of people to delay their purchase.

KCross

Del2005 wrote: »

Why should EVs be allowed in bus lanes? They are still private cars with usually 1 person in it. Bus lanes are for buses, bicycles and taxis (which completely abuse them) not private cars which pump their pollution out of a power station exhaust not their own.

Ah... that ould chestnut! :rolleyes:

btw, I dont agree with bus lane use either for EV's.

September1

I was to replace my LEAF with newer one, but Nissan gave me terrible trade-in value. In the end it was cheaper to go with diesel.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

The drop in EV sales in the US and Ireland is in large part due to a lot of people delaying their purchase to late 2016 early 2017 to get the much longer range models.

Maybe that's what it is. The trendsetters and early adopters have an EV already (not caring much about some severe limitations such as range)

For the next group (more mainstream) to start buying EV, there just must be fewer limitations (and / or even more benefits) to take the plunge?

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Maybe that's what it is. The trendsetters and early adopters have an EV already (not caring much about some severe limitations such as range)

For the next group (more mainstream) to start buying EV, there just must be fewer limitations (and / or even more benefits) to take the plunge?

Even those who have an EV already and might be looking to purchase another or purchase for another family member are holding off.

Hell, so am I. I have a Model 3 deposit down and I'm considering selling up and going for a 2 year lease on one of the new models while I wait.

zilog_jones

I've seen many PHEV owners in the US recently saying they're no longer charging their cars because the petrol is so cheap there - and I think lecky is more expensive than here on average (though it varies significantly between states). I think I worked out running the ICE in my Prius PHV costs about 3 times as much as running in EV mode, assuming 9c/kWh night rates.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

The drop in EV sales in the US and Ireland is in large part due to a lot of people delaying their purchase to late 2016 early 2017 to get the much longer range models.

We have a new facelifted Leaf hitting production in December with 250-300km of real world range.
New 400km range Chevy Bolt (Opel Ampera-e) went into production this week.
New eGolf and eUp just out but a battery upgrade due in the next three to four months.
New Renault Zoe R400 (400km NEDC, 300km real world range) due to be unveiled at the Paris motor show starting Oct 1st
Tesla Model 3 due in the US the end of next year and RHD markets in H1 2018, lots of existing EV owners have deposits down.
New Jaguar E-Pace SUV due next year.

Because the market is currently composed of a small number of relatively well-informed people, the expectation of new models coming down the road causes a huge number of people to delay their purchase.

Yes I agree that people are waiting for more range that is literally , just around the corner.

However the "rumoured" 40 Kwh Leaf and Zoe won't offer 300 Kms range but between 200-230 kms in real life driving but that's still leaps and bounds better than the current 120-140 kms range electrics.

Opel are not importing the GM Bolt to Ireland, perhaps they may change their mind on this. They probably don't want to make the investment into retooling the workshop, retraining etc. It cost Nissan about 150,000 Euro's. Either way for the foreseeable future there'll be no 200 mile 200 HP Bolt in Ireland. Truth be told Opel Ireland will deem it far too powerful for Irish people to handle lol. (Irish people are not used to such power)

Perhaps they will sell a 80-100 Hp instead lol only joking.

It's time now also that car makers make estates and SUV's and not just small hatchbacks. The Leaf is too small for us really. Luckily we have the Estate C'eed.

BoJack Horseman

Muscle/pony car sales are down in 2016

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160822/RETAIL01/308229984/as-sales-sputter-are-muscle-cars-the-canaries-in-the-industry-coal

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Opel are not importing the GM Bolt to Ireland, perhaps they may change their mind on this. They probably don't want to make the investment into retooling the workshop, retraining etc. It cost Nissan about 150,000 Euro's. Either way for the foreseeable future there'll be no 200 mile 200 HP Bolt in Ireland. Truth be told Opel Ireland will deem it far too powerful for Irish people to handle lol. (Irish people are not used to such power)

With Chevrolet Bolt it is be the supply, not the demand, that will limit the sales. There is absolutely no need for GM to invest into bringing it to Ireland, they will sell whatever they produce anyway.

bk

unkel wrote: »

New car sales are up in Ireland 20% compared to last year. EV sales are down 20%

I assume those figures are just for new car sales from Irish dealers?

Because I'm seeing a massive numbers of seemingly second hand Nissan Leafs pop up all around me over the last few months.

Which all makes sense, second hand Leafs from the UK are going very cheaply at the moment and make for a great second "city" car for 2 car families.

A brand new Nissan Leaf doesn't currently make any sense. Costs twice as much as a second hand one while offering only slightly more range, while still not enough range for a one car family. All the while most people know that 200 mile Leafs are likely to arrive in the next 12 months.

The Leaf is pretty much the only affordable EV available in Ireland.

I think if Opel sold the Volt/Ampera here it would be very popular. Enough electric range for day to day commuting while still have ICE range for the odd long distance trip. You only have to look at the popularity of the Prius in Ireland to see the thirst that the Irish have for fuel efficient cars.

unkel wrote: »

Maybe that's what it is. The trendsetters and early adopters have an EV already (not caring much about some severe limitations such as range)

For the next group (more mainstream) to start buying EV, there just must be fewer limitations (and / or even more benefits) to take the plunge?

Absolutely true. The innovation adoption cycle is made up of 5 types of people. Innovators, early adopters, early majority, late majority and laggards.

Electric cars are actually still in the innovators stage, which makes up the first 2.5% of consumers. These are people who are very much forward thinkers and visionaries and are willing to put up with lots of limitations and bugs in new technology to experience the future first.

Early adaptors are also visionaries and also willing to put up with some bugs and limitations, but are generally a bit more conservative then the innovators. They will often be just as aware of the new technology, but are just less likely to gamble their money on new tech. They will wait until they see things have settled down at least a little before investing.

I'm very much an early adaptor. I remember watching the Apple event where Steve Jobs announced the first iPhone and thinking, wow at last, here is the smart phone I've been dreaming of for years! However I didn't buy it knowing that the first one would be too much Alpha technology and buggy (which it was), but I jumped straight in on the iPhone 3G. Not that it didn't continue to get better, it did, but at least they had worked out the worst bugs and it was "good enough" to give it a go.

Well I'm now the same with EV's. I'm convinced they are the future of automobiles, just like the iPhone was, but I also think they are currently still too compromised to lay a massive amount of money down on one. Once an affordable 200mile EV hits, I think I'll jump onboard then as it will have hit the "good enough" point. Not that they won't continue to get better, but it will have enough performance to meet my needs.

I think all the EV innovators have already bought their EV's and all the EV early adaptors like me are waiting for affordable 200 mile EV's (or decent PHEV options).

grogi

grogi wrote: »

With Chevrolet Bolt it is be the supply, not the demand, that will limit the sales. There is absolutely no need for GM to invest into bringing it to Ireland, they will sell whatever they produce anyway.

Yes, initially , sales will be limited to GM's car sharing company, can't remember the company.

It's not about GM selling the Bolt in Ireland, it's about whether Opel Ireland want to sell it and Opel's current stand is that they will not import it, at least that's what their main HQ e-mailed me. I think that e-mail actually came from somewhere in Germany.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, initially , sales will be limited to GM's car sharing company, can't remember the company.

Lyft?

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Lyft?

Sounds right, not 100% sure.

BoatMad

650Ginge wrote: »

Accordingly to the last census and the Washington post. Irish commuters travel on average 17kms. Americans commuters travel 24.5 miles. Americans win or is that lose.

In any case both distances are well within EV ranges.

I think eV sales in Ireland have dropped this year while the car market overall has grown 20+%. Why? I don't know. But I do think that evs have probably not got passed the early adopter demographic. As such the market is much smaller and less likely to grow with an up turn in economic prosperity and access to PCP.

I would love an EV tested a leaf 3 years ago. But they don't make sense for me just yet. I 2/3 times a month trip in excess of 200 miles. I also have two large dogs so currently drive an larhe enough diesel estate. I hate that diesel grumble. Previously I had a mk2 prius for 4 years. I miss it in ways.

You have to look at annual mileage figures, rather then average drive length. In ireland we have a large proportion of drivers that covers very long distances, in comparison to a largely urbanised US society. The result is that diesel driver in ireland ( which make up 70% of the sales ) drive more then their American counterparts in gas cars ( petrol cars mileage here are slightly less then US equivalent )

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, initially , sales will be limited to GM's car sharing company, can't remember the company.

It's not about GM selling the Bolt in Ireland, it's about whether Opel Ireland want to sell it and Opel's current stand is that they will not import it, at least that's what their main HQ e-mailed me. I think that e-mail actually came from somewhere in Germany.

There is no RHD version planned, that why Open wont import it

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

There is no RHD version planned, that why Open wont import it

They didn't know that at the time, they just said, they had no plans to add the Ampera-E to the Irish fleet.

BoatMad

September1 wrote: »

I was to replace my LEAF with newer one, but Nissan gave me terrible trade-in value. In the end it was cheaper to go with diesel.

any details , of the trade in , condition of your leaf etc