Selling rented property

size5

I have decided to put my rented apartment up for sale. I have had excellent tenants that have been in the property for 4 years. So I give them the 112 days notice.

My question is can the auctioneer to show the apartment in the 112 days with the tenants permission or do I need to wait? Obviously looking for short time possible between sale and tenants leaving.

what have other people done?

Advise apreciated

castle2012

size5 wrote: »

I have decided to put my rented apartment up for sale. I have had excellent tenants that have been in the property for 4 years. So I give them the 112 days notice.

My question is can the auctioneer to show the apartment in the 112 days with the tenants permission or do I need to wait? Obviously looking for short time possible between sale and tenants leaving.

what have other people done?

Advise apreciated

I sold my house last year , I would say go chat to your tenants . My tenants where not going to give an inch . They do have the right to say no believe it or not . in my case I talked them round agreed 2 hours a week on a Friday and I would be there with estate agent as they where uncomfortable with strangers looking at there belonging s.

MarkAnthony

I would approach them and explain the situation and offer a reduction in rent in return for the disruption of viewings. Keep them at a fixed time etc.

GGTrek

size5 wrote: »

I have decided to put my rented apartment up for sale. I have had excellent tenants that have been in the property for 4 years. So I give them the 112 days notice.

My question is can the auctioneer to show the apartment in the 112 days with the tenants permission or do I need to wait? Obviously looking for short time possible between sale and tenants leaving.

what have other people done?

Advise apreciated

I have a clause in the tenancy agreement that the tenants signed that they have to accept at least four viewings per month by giving them at least 72hrs notice in case of end of tenancy or sale of the property. It is my property and I cannot be held to ransom by tenants like the OP saying: " My tenants where not going to give an inch . They do have the right to say no believe it or not ." They do not have any right to say no if it is written in their tenancy agreement unless it is an health or safety situation, this kind of behaviour can cause serious costs to the landlord.

MarkAnthony

GGTrek wrote: »

It is my property...

...and their home. It's attitudes like this that results in more and more legislation against landlords including legislation that will prevent the sale of your property while a tenancy remains in place.

mdebets

GGTrek wrote: »

I have a clause in the tenancy agreement that the tenants signed that they have to accept at least four viewings per month by giving them at least 72hrs notice in case of end of tenancy or sale of the property. It is my property and I cannot be held to ransom by tenants like the OP saying: " My tenants where not going to give an inch . They do have the right to say no believe it or not ." They do not have any right to say no if it is written in their tenancy agreement unless it is an health or safety situation, this kind of behaviour can cause serious costs to the landlord.

What you however can't do, is to make the tenants present your property in a good light. What would you do if the tenant let's last week's dishes in the kitchen, doesn't clean the appartment for weeks and lets dirty clothes lying around all over the appartmen, just for the viewings. Or if he tells the prospective tenants every bad thing about the property and you as a landlord, or how unsafe they feel in the neighbourhood?

newacc2015

MarkAnthony wrote: »

...and their home. It's attitudes like this that results in more and more legislation against landlords including legislation that will prevent the sale of your property while a tenancy remains in place.

But more importantly it is OP property. Irish property rights are among the strongest in the world. If we are going to start reducing them for the benefit of tenants, my two cents is that the Government will have to start giving landlords more rights to evict non-paying tenants. More and more rental properties are being sold as no one wants to deal with all the new BS laws limiting the industry to only benefit tenants.

The fact is there is less houses being sold than ever. A few vultures fund tenants to pay off the mortgage holders debts are being completely exaggerated in the media is giving the impression all rental properties going up for sale are resulting in the tenant being evicted on a whim with short notice

MarkAnthony

newacc2015 wrote: »

But more importantly it is OP property. Irish property rights are among the strongest in the world.

This is such a common misconception that I almost put a reply to it above, unsolicited, when I wrote the above post.

The protection you mention, erroneously, is the double constitutional protection of private property; the reason for which is the rise of communism at the same time as Ireland was writing her constitution. This protection simply refers to the ownership right not the ability to assign and withdrawn occupancy rights willy-nilly. There are arguably stronger protection within the constitution for tenants, and with good historical reasons. Real property and it's associated bundle of rights is completely different to chattels and people, especially those who wish to be LLs, need to understand that.

The entire reason for the 'BS laws' is parties not acting reasonably or on parity with each other. It's exactly why we have consumer protections laws. The answer you'll get from big retailer X is 'take it on our terms for lump it'. That's exactly what some landlords seek to do, eventually at their own detriment.

Dardania

would the tenants have any interest in buying from you?

mitresize5

Sweeten it for them.

I was in the same position with a property last year.

I offered them 100 pm rent reduction to facilitate viewings and a refund on their last months rent to leave within their notice period.

All told it cost me €1,100 and it was money well spent

DubCount

I would prefer to wait until the tenant has vacated the property. The Apartment will look less cluttered and more attractive without personal items lying around and with empty wardrobes etc. It might increase the value you get for it.

peckdunn

Talk to tenants and maybe offer a reduction if they agree to x hrs per week with at least 48hr notice?

Gazzmonkey

newacc2015 wrote: »

But more importantly it is OP property.

Maybe equally important but not more important

SarahMollie

Back when I was last house sharing our LL passed away and his executors made moves to sell the house. They sent the most obnoxious EA over to measure up who basically said something like "so you girls need to be out of the house between 10am-1pm every Saturday to facilitate viewings". To say it went down like a lead balloon was an understatement. We were in our mid twenties at the time so being up and out at 10am on a Saturday morning was a big ask.

We dug our heals in and ultimately they offered one months rent in exchange for our cooperation.

I think its only fair to compensate your tenants if they're going to be significantly inconvenienced. Also, I was never a huge fan of the open viewings, we had to lock away all our valuables every week, as the agent couldnt possible keep tracks on the amount of randomers traipsing through the place.

Without the rent reduction, theres no way we would have cooperated like we did.

Stephen P

I'm going through this at the moment. Apt is sale agreed. I went to speak to the tenants and they fully cooperated and allowed viewings with no problems. We have a good relationship which helped. As it turns out an investor is buying the apt and is allowing the tenants to stay on so is a win-win situation for everyone.
We were advised to only give the notice to leave when the property goes sale agreed as it takes so long for the process to complete.

mirrorwall14

I'm in the market to buy. I turned up to a viewing with the estate agent and three other couples organised and ageeed to by the tenants. They didn't turn up to let us in (EA did not have a key$. It looked horrendous and I don't think anyone was interested after that.

If you can at all, sweeten the deal

size5

Dardania wrote: »

would the tenants have any interest in buying from you?

That I still have to find out-As trying to ascertain whether to sell this year or early 2017.

size5

DubCount wrote: »

I would prefer to wait until the tenant has vacated the property. The Apartment will look less cluttered and more attractive without personal items lying around and with empty wardrobes etc. It might increase the value you get for it.

Agreed but it can be a long road between tenants leaving, getting viewings and sale agreed and having to pay mortgage for them months with no tenant-but you are probably correct on the clutter etc

zef

I would be of the opinion that you really need vacant possession in order to attract buyers. It is one thing saying they will be gone in say, November, but what if-worst case scenario- they are not gone by then?
If I was in your shoes I'd sweeten the deal for your tenants as others have suggested : allow them to move as soon as they find a new place, give them their deposit back in advance, have a reference ready for them. Even down to helping them move/ giving them the money for a hire van.
The sooner you get possession, the sooner you can get in and see what needs doing to make the place more 'saleable'.
It irks me looking at property with posters, bikes, and personal clutter all over the place.
Most people will first view your property online, and good photos will attract more interest. If you yourself are not handy at photography perhaps ask friends or family, or even pay a photography student a few bob for bright photos showing each room. If the property is in Dublin and has no issues you should be able to sell pretty quickly. Good luck!

mdebets

I had a read of the legislation and in §34 it states

Residential Tenancies Act 2004 wrote:

34.—A Part 4 tenancy may be terminated by the landlord—
...
Grounds for termination
...
3. The landlord intends, within 3 months after the termination of the tenancy under this section, to enter into an enforceable agreement for the transfer to another, for full consideration, of the whole of his or her interest in the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling.
...

As the process from deciding to sell to the final signing of the contract is most likely to be far more than 3 months, would that not mean, that the LL can only evict the tenant, once this process has gone so far, that the signing of the contracts can be guaranteed to be no more than 3 months away (i.e. a buyer is found and most of the problems are ironed out)?

Michael D Not Higgins

mdebets wrote: »

I had a read of the legislation and in §34 it states


As the process from deciding to sell to the final signing of the contract is most likely to be far more than 3 months, would that not mean, that the LL can only evict the tenant, once this process has gone so far, that the signing of the contracts can be guaranteed to be no more than 3 months away (i.e. a buyer is found and most of the problems are ironed out)?

It is written in such a way as to prevent landlords saying they're selling in order to use it as an excuse to serve notice to a tenant. If there is a dispute, the RTB will take whatever evidence is presented to them as proof of intention to sell.