Premium on Irish Regs

80sDiesel

Just wondering aloud. Figuring there is a premium on an Original Irish car but how much ? 20% ?

savagethegoat

seeing as an awful lot of them are ringers, zero

ianobrien

For me, zero premium. As the goatman mentioned so many are ringers, due diligence has to be done.

80sDiesel

Ringers, as in not actually Originally Irish?

Zoo4m8

I dunno though, I think pre 87 (year plate) are worth a bit more or at least worth travelling a bit further for...I bought a yoke a while ago that was only fit to block a gap in a hedge just because it was Irish..the shell is nearly done now and I've just had word that the lad building an engine for it is good to go so I'm very glad I took the chance..I think it will stand out a little among all the ZV's and year plates..:)

kev1.3s

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

I dunno though, I think pre 87 (year plate) are worth a bit more or at least worth travelling a bit further for...I bought a yoke a while ago that was only fit to block a gap in a hedge just because it was Irish..the shell is nearly done now and I've just had word that the lad building an engine for it is good to go so I'm very glad I took the chance..I think it will stand out a little among all the ZV's and year plates..:)

Couldn't agree more, I pulled a rotten car from a polly tunnel a good while ago and it's almost finished now, I love the fact that it has an Irish history but then again I'm certain of its heritage. I think 20% is a little on the high side tho.

kev1.3s

80sDiesel wrote: »

Ringers, as in not actually Originally Irish?

There is also a strong inclination in here to call out every original plate as a fake, always smacks of sour grapes to me.

unfit2006

I also agree on the added value of original Irish vintage and classic cars particularly in the makes/models that did not sell in large numbers.

Unfortunately there are a lot of gaps in what now remains of Irish historic or classic cars and the situation seems to be getting worse.

I reckon that a +20% price differential would not be that unusual among the rarer makes and models, where the car's provenance is clearly established.

I would feel that +10% price differential could even be achieved on the more common makes/models if all other aspects of the car were "on par" with the imported item.

carchaeologist

A genuine car is always going to be much more interesting, and have more value to certain people, but you have to be so careful nowadays. The ringing situation is getting worse and worse year on year.
Its not so much of an issue if it's your car and your keeping it, but cars are being sold all the time with fake documentation to lads who dont realise this and buy the cars in good faith, thus becoming a potential insurance issue if involved in an accident.
The locking down of the NCT exemption at 1979 and before didn't help the situation.

mattroche

I have 555 PIE for sale on a Mercedes W123, 200. It is NOT a ringer, as I made sure to check the Vin No. The car drives, but does need work. I am somewhat surprised it has not been snapped up. I think it is a very good project for someone who has the time & ability.

Max Headroom

Was looking at a classic bike recently, the guy was harping on about it being original irish...had a dublin plate ....it was clearly an american import but the fool owner was obviously convinced when he bought it....:rolleyes:

savagethegoat

genuine Irish cars ought to command a premium but they don't because they have been devalued by all the ringers.

Kevin_Herron

I'm not sure that original Irish cars have been devalued because of 'ringers'.
In fact, I'm not too sure that they would carry a 20% premium over an identical car either.

For me the premium would be paid for a car with a proper history regardless of its country of origin.

Kenny Logins

Max Headroom wrote: »

Was looking at a classic bike recently, the guy was harping on about it being original irish...had a dublin plate ....it was clearly an american import but the fool owner was obviously convinced when he bought it....:rolleyes:

LHD was it? :pac:

carchaeologist

Kevin_Herron wrote: »

I'm not sure that original Irish cars have been devalued because of 'ringers'.
In fact, I'm not too sure that they would carry a 20% premium over an identical car either.

For me the premium would be paid for a car with a proper history regardless of its country of origin.

Correct and authentic history is always a clincher for me regardless of the vehicle.

millington

mattroche wrote: »

I have 555 PIE for sale on a Mercedes W123, 200. It is NOT a ringer, as I made sure to check the Vin No. The car drives, but does need work. I am somewhat surprised it has not been snapped up. I think it is a very good project for someone who has the time & ability.

The VIN number confirms nothing since a ringer will have the chassis plates and all changed over.

Not doubting it's authenticity now!

Red Kev

millington wrote: »

The VIN number confirms nothing since a ringer will have the chassis plates and all changed over.

Not doubting it's authenticity now!

Older Mercs have the chassis stamped under the bonnet on the firewall as well. Difficult to change properly without it being noticeable. Most ringers have just the chassis plate changed, some don't even have that.

I always thought the government should give an anmesty and then do a crackdown on the whole bloody lot of them to tidy the system up. I'm not generally in favour of amnesties, but a load of people have bought and sold ringer classics in good faith over the years. At a local gathering a few years ago there were 23 classics there with pre-87 numbers on them, we had a look and 16 of them were ringers. Only about 5 or 6 of the drivers would have known how to spot one, so in a way I'd feel sorry for the honest buyer.

Next time the car is to be taxed get them to have the chassis number verified by the NCT. I accept that there are a number of manufacturers who have no stamped chassis numbers but these are very rare. I also can't see why any classic car enthusiast or club wouldn't support this 100%. Not supporting it is being prepared to turn a blind eye to crime IMO.

type85

Red Kev wrote: »

Older Mercs have the chassis stamped under the bonnet on the firewall as well. Difficult to change properly without it being noticeable. Most ringers have just the chassis plate changed, some don't even have that.

I always thought the government should give an anmesty and then do a crackdown on the whole bloody lot of them to tidy the system up. I'm not generally in favour of amnesties, but a load of people have bought and sold ringer classics in good faith over the years. At a local gathering a few years ago there were 23 classics there with pre-87 numbers on them, we had a look and 16 of them were ringers. Only about 5 or 6 of the drivers would have known how to spot one, so in a way I'd feel sorry for the honest buyer.

Next time the car is to be taxed get them to have the chassis number verified by the NCT. I accept that there are a number of manufacturers who have no stamped chassis numbers but these are very rare. I also can't see why any classic car enthusiast or club wouldn't support this 100%. Not supporting it is being prepared to turn a blind eye to crime IMO.

How did you know the 16 were Ringers? Stamped chassis numberst different from vintage tag ? Or?
What manufactusers don't use stamped chassis Numbers?

kev1.3s

The chassis number of the lancia Fulvia is stamped into the water gutter in the scuttle panel and is also difficult to change so when I was cutting the rotten one off mine and replacing it with a scuttle from a donar car I just ground off the number from car number 2 and didn't bother replace it with the original.
I didn't bother because I don't intend to sell the car and even if I do I have plenty of photos to back up what I done but if I were to show my car and have some busy body's poking about looking for chassis numbers I'd tell them pretty swiftly and in no uncertain terms what to do with there opinions.

kev1.3s

unfit2006 wrote: »

I reckon that a +20% price differential would not be that unusual among the rarer makes and models, where the car's provenance is clearly established.

I would agree that some of the more rarer cars would be worth paying more for if they were Irish cars from new but I think unfortunately these cars command even more of a premium in the uk so a lot of them end up leaving and bringing there plates with them. Which is a shame.

TrailerBob

It's a pity that certain people take the dirty option and put Irish documents on no original cars. We had a '79 VW T2 for a while that came in from England, On a 79 - D plate. We were looking through the stuff after the grandfather passed, and found a pile of brown tax books, including one for a 78 - same colour and everything. Momentary temptation gave way to sense. That's now in the attic in a box with the others never to see the light of day.

Incidentally taking delivery of a '75 US import T2 camper from restoration, now on a ZV. But we have it's history from Nevada, which is cool.

millington

Red Kev wrote: »

Older Mercs have the chassis stamped under the bonnet on the firewall as well. Difficult to change properly without it being noticeable. Most ringers have just the chassis plate changed, some don't even have that.

I always thought the government should give an anmesty and then do a crackdown on the whole bloody lot of them to tidy the system up. I'm not generally in favour of amnesties, but a load of people have bought and sold ringer classics in good faith over the years. At a local gathering a few years ago there were 23 classics there with pre-87 numbers on them, we had a look and 16 of them were ringers. Only about 5 or 6 of the drivers would have known how to spot one, so in a way I'd feel sorry for the honest buyer.

Next time the car is to be taxed get them to have the chassis number verified by the NCT. I accept that there are a number of manufacturers who have no stamped chassis numbers but these are very rare. I also can't see why any classic car enthusiast or club wouldn't support this 100%. Not supporting it is being prepared to turn a blind eye to crime IMO.

Every club would be up in arms. Even more hassle to keep an old car on the road! Good luck to that. Anyway it solves nothing as I've seen plenty of ringers and theres no way in hell the NCT would spot it.