How long before our government issues a warning against non essential travel to Franc

Dots1982

A bit early yet but looks as though this is only going to get worst as we go from random infrequent sex attacks to daily terrorist attacks over the course of about eight months and this appears to me to be a problem without any solution unless people's human rights are impinged which EU countries won't be prepared to do.

So how long and how bad will things get before the government doesn't consider it safe for their citizens to travel to these countries?

Captain Chaos

You have a higher chance of being killed in a road accident in Ireland than a terrorist attack in France. It's a big country with a massive population.

Mexico or Brasil would be far more dangerous to visit.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

timmyntc

Dots1982 wrote: »

A bit early yet but looks as though this is only going to get worst as we go from random infrequent sex attacks to daily terrorist attacks over the course of about eight months and this appears to me to be a problem without any solution unless people's human rights are impinged which EU countries won't be prepared to do.

So how long and how bad will things get before the government doesn't consider it safe for their citizens to travel to these countries?

Doubtful if ever. Nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction.

There's nothing to suggest that pasty looking irish are being targeted, and also the proportion of terrorist deaths is a tiny fraction of things like road traffic deaths and other things. That doesn't make it any less tragic, but realistically (and statistically) you won't be at risk of injury in a terrorist attack.

Dots1982

Dots1982 wrote: »

A bit early yet but looks as though this is only going to get worst as we go from random infrequent sex attacks to daily terrorist attacks over the course of about eight months and this appears to me to be a problem without any solution unless people's human rights are impinged which EU countries won't be prepared to do.

So how long and how bad will things get before the government doesn't consider it safe for their citizens to travel to these countries?

can't edit the subject but was meant to read France, Germany and Belgium

Gatling

More dangerous traveling on the luas redline daily,

It would be different if we were seeing large scale attacks on a daily or weekly basis , unfortunately bar Paris and nice we haven't had large scale terrorist attacks

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Gatling wrote: »

More dangerous traveling on the luas redline daily,

It would be different if we were seeing large scale attacks on a daily or weekly basis , unfortunately bar Paris and nice we haven't had large scale terrorist attacks

...yet!

If they reach a level of capability that the IRA reached many EU countries could be in serious trouble. The bombing of Canary Wharf and Manchester were big enough bombs that they could have killed thousands. It almost seems lucky in hindsight that they were considered economic targets and not civilian targets.

I think over time the knowledge, experience and network that this type of terrorism can reach could be truly catastrophic.

Speedwell

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yeah, when I was traveling for work a lot from the US, the US State Department would always make a big deal out of "exercising a high degree of caution" with respect to pickpockets, scammers, and (occasionally) civil unrest. I was actually in Bogota when there was some sort of student uprising and it was difficult to get to the facility the next day because there were still bricks and things in the road. Not to mention the taxi driver, on the way to the airport to go home, deciding to try to abduct me by driving toward the outskirts of town in the opposite direction from the airport (he chickened out when I pulled out my cell phone and was clearly bitching about him to my secretary and telling her to call the police on the other line). You deal with that crap everywhere, every day.

Ronald Wilson Reagan

The IRA campaign was not a phenomenon unique to Ireland, most of Europe had political violence during the 70's and 80's with ETA, Red brigades, Red Armey faction, carlos the jackel etc..

snubbleste

Dohnjoe

There haven't been "daily" or almost daily attacks this year in France

There have been 5 attacks since the beginning of 2016, including the attack on the Church today

Moo Moo Land

Dots1982 wrote: »

So how long and how bad will things get before the government doesn't consider it safe for their citizens to travel to these countries?

I will ignore such an overreaction from our government.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

A bit early yet but looks as though this is only going to get worst as we go from random infrequent sex attacks to daily terrorist attacks over the course of about eight months and this appears to me to be a problem without any solution unless people's human rights are impinged which EU countries won't be prepared to do.

So how long and how bad will things get before the government doesn't consider it safe for their citizens to travel to these countries?

Probably requiring the scale of a serious international war. The US has had more terrorist attacks than France over the last few years and no one's all that concerned...

Dots1982

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There haven't been "daily" or almost daily attacks this year in France

There have been 5 attacks since the beginning of 2016, including the attack on the Church today

should read France, Germany and Belgium in the subject, if any mod can edit the subject be my guest...

Why would the Government warn people to avoid travelling to meet a wedding planner?

SEPT 23 1989

they did after the Paris attacks

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

should read France, Germany and Belgium in the subject, if any mod can edit the subject be my guest...

This is the very definition of terrorism: you're terrified of going somewhere because there was an attack. How many more countries do you want to add to that list? The UK, the US, Austraia, Norway, Turkey, and Japan have all had attacks in the last years, why not them?

And the worst attack committed in European in the last decade was committed by a pilot - how long before we ask the government to consider it unsafe to fly?

I put it to you that you are being hysterical.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Ronald Wilson Reagan wrote: »

The IRA campaign was not a phenomenon unique to Ireland, most of Europe had political violence during the 70's and 80's with ETA, Red brigades, Red Armey faction, carlos the jackel etc..

I agree with you to an extent.
But all of those terrorist organisations had defined objectives and goals, most people might not have agreed with those objectives and goals, but there was always the possibility of a negotiated compromise with time. This new type of terrorism in Europe doesn't seem to have any clear objective or goal other than to murder as many people as possible as many times as possible.
As a very clear and sobering comparison, the Nice Attack claimed more victims lives than the Red Brigade managed in its entire history.

Add in the fact that this new type of terrorism has suicide bombings, can tap into international support on one hand while it can be carried out by lone wolves with mental problems on the other hand and you have a recipe for disaster.

The problem with terrorism is that the police can be right 99 times out of 100 and they still feel like they lost.

Dots1982

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

should read France, Germany and Belgium in the subject, if any mod can edit the subject be my guest...

This is the very definition of terrorism: you're terrified of going somewhere because there was an attack. How many more countries do you want to add to that list? The UK, the US, Austraia, Norway, Turkey, and Japan have all had attacks in the last years, why not them?

And the worst attack committed in European in the last decade was committed by a pilot - how long before we ask the government to consider it unsafe to fly?

I put it to you that you are being hysterical.

I said how long before not that it should happen now.

I guess the terror attacks in Norway & Japan instance were a one off action by a loon and not overseen by a huge terrorist quasi state where a huge amount of people are coming from there to here (here been Europe).

In terms of suicide pilots of passenger jets then its only happened three times that I'm aware of in the history of flight so a fairly small risk albeit 2 of the year have happened recently. I'm counting MH370 as a suicide flight as its seems to be the most likely explanation.

Turkey would be on the list of places I wouldn't visit and the UK & Australia .... not sure why you are including them.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

I said how long before not that it should happen now.

I guess the terror attacks in Norway & Japan instance were a one off action by a loon and not overseen by a huge terrorist quasi state where a huge amount of people are coming from there to here (here been Europe).

In terms of suicide pilots of passenger jets then its only happened three times that I'm aware of in the history of flight so a fairly small risk albeit 2 of the year have happened recently. I'm counting MH370 as a suicide flight as its seems to be the most likely explanation.

Exaclty what do you mean by a "a huge terrorist quasi state"? How big is "huge"?

Nearly all terrorist attacks are committed by "loons". The one in Munich was inspired by Brevik and the others were random stabbings which were nothing to do with the mass terrors you seem to be terrified of.

Turkey would be on the list of places I wouldn't visit and the UK & Australia .... not sure why you are including them.

Because they'vve both been victims of recent terror attacks or shootings.

Dots1982

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

I said how long before not that it should happen now.

I guess the terror attacks in Norway & Japan instance were a one off action by a loon and not overseen by a huge terrorist quasi state where a huge amount of people are coming from there to here (here been Europe).

In terms of suicide pilots of passenger jets then its only happened three times that I'm aware of in the history of flight so a fairly small risk albeit 2 of the year have happened recently. I'm counting MH370 as a suicide flight as its seems to be the most likely explanation.

Exaclty what do you mean by a "a huge terrorist quasi state"? How big is "huge"?

Nearly all terrorist attacks are committed by "loons". The one in Munich was inspired by Brevik and the others were random stabbings which were nothing to do with the mass terrors you seem to be terrified of.

Turkey would be on the list of places I wouldn't visit and the UK & Australia .... not sure why you are including them.

Because they'vve both been victims of recent terror attacks or shootings.

I would say being extremely conservative that about a billion people in the world have heard of Islamic State or ISIS. I have no idea of the area in squared metres. Draw your own conclusions as to their size or influence. Check out numbers 2 and 7: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/16/googles-most-popular-search-terms-of-2015.html

What terror attacks are you referring to in Australia and the UK?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

I would say being extremely conservative that about a billion people in the world have heard of Islamic State or ISIS. I have no idea of the area in squared metres. Draw your own conclusions as to their size or influence. Check out numbers 2 and 7: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/16/googles-most-popular-search-terms-of-2015.html

What terror attacks are you referring to in Australia and the UK?

I know what ISIS is, thank you veyr much - I asked WHAT you meant, not WHO you meant. And just how do you know that the numbers are sufficient to create a threat sizeable enough to warrant an international travel warning?

Austalia - Starbucks hostage crisis, 2014.
UK - Spalding shootings 2016, Cumbria 2010, London 2005.

Dots1982

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

I would say being extremely conservative that about a billion people in the world have heard of Islamic State or ISIS. I have no idea of the area in squared metres. Draw your own conclusions as to their size or influence. Check out numbers 2 and 7: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/16/googles-most-popular-search-terms-of-2015.html

What terror attacks are you referring to in Australia and the UK?

I know what ISIS is, thank you veyr much - I asked WHAT you meant, not WHO you meant. And just how do you know that the numbers are sufficient to create a threat sizeable enough to warrant an international travel warning?

Austalia - Starbucks hostage crisis, 2014.
UK - Spalding shootings 2016, Cumbria 2010, London 2005.

Where did I say I did? My first post posed the question rather than suggesting a time when it should.

The Spalding shooting..where a builder killed his wife and daughter...that's just silly..and cumbria...I should avoid the UK because a lone nut went on a one-off killing spree ..I'm afraid you've got a very warped mind and I don't think there is much point talking if you think that is the same as what is happening in Europe.

murpho999

People need perspective on this. In the 70s and 80s there were lots of IRA attacks in the UK but no Irish person was afraid to travel there.

France has been terrible but it does not mean the whole massive country is a no go area.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

Where did I say I did? My first post posed the question rather than suggesting a time when it should.

Where did you say what? I've alluded to the specific piece of your post I'm questioning twice.

The Spalding shooting..where a builder killed his wife and daughter...that's just silly..and cumbria. .I should avoid the UK because a lone nut went on a one-off killing spree ..I'm afraid you've got a very warped mind and I don't think there is much point talking if you think that is the same as what is happening in Europe.

Isn't this exactly why you added Germany to the list of non-essential travel destinations?

Dots1982

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

Where did I say I did? My first post posed the question rather than suggesting a time when it should.

Where did you say what? I've alluded to the specific piece of your post I'm questioning twice.

The Spalding shooting..where a builder killed his wife and daughter...that's just silly..and cumbria. .I should avoid the UK because a lone nut went on a one-off killing spree ..I'm afraid you've got a very warped mind and I don't think there is much point talking if you think that is the same as what is happening in Europe.

Isn't this exactly why you added Germany to the list of non-essential travel destinations?

If you don't understand the difference between the events in france and germany and a man shooting his family then ask one of your friends in primary school to explain it to you.

Arne_Saknussem

Gatling wrote: »

More dangerous traveling on the luas redline daily,

It would be different if we were seeing large scale attacks on a daily or weekly basis , unfortunately bar Paris and nice we haven't had large scale terrorist attacks

You meant 'fortunately' i'm guessing :eek:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between the events in france and germany and a man shooting his family then ask one of your friends in primary school to explain it to you.

That really nessecary?

Cumbria was not family. Munich was not ISIS terroism. Australai and the US you've conveniently ignored.

You're using hysteria to massively overhype the dangers of travelling to these places to an unhealthy level. What does it matter of a gunman or a terrorist does the killing? Is one mass murderer any less dnagerous than another?

snubbleste

snubbleste wrote: »

I never understood the last line and I still don't understand it.

For twenty years I've been asking, who the fuck is taking the horse to France? What is going on?

Arne_Saknussem

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I never understood the last line and I still don't understand it.

For twenty years I've been asking, who the fuck is taking the horse to France? What is going on?

Probably something to do with yer wan banging Andre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSkQij6lGJ4

RustyNut

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Probably something to do with yer wan banging Andre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSkQij6lGJ4

And Andre owning the local la viande de cheval shop.

ISOP

Anyone heading to France or Belgium for their holidays would want their head examined, terrorist hotspots

topmanamillion

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I never understood the last line and I still don't understand it.

For twenty years I've been asking, who the fuck is taking the horse to France? What is going on?

Well thank bejaysus I'm not the only one!
Never understood it! Were the two going to head off to France on a dirty weekend with he excuse of off loading the horse?

ISOP

topmanamillion wrote: »

Well thank bejaysus I'm not the only one!
Never understood it! Were the two going to head off to France on a dirty weekend with he excuse of off loading the horse?

its a euphemism for anal sex

topmanamillion

ISOP wrote: »

Anyone heading to France or Belgium for their holidays would want their head examined, terrorist hotspots

How dare all those French & Belgian people live there? With terrorists running free in the streets. They have some cheek

Arne_Saknussem

ISOP wrote: »

its a euphemism for anal sex

What does 'put a bit of butter on the spuds' translate to??

ISOP

topmanamillion wrote: »

How dare all those French & Belgian people live there? With terrorists running free in the streets. They have some cheek

what are you on about?

arch_stanton

Road traffic deaths in France in 2013 (too lazy to search for updates) 3268, almost 10 a day. Do you want a warning for that too? Put down Fox News and enjoy the Galway races

Widdershins

As terrorism increases and road death figures decline in France do the statistics reflect this , and do they take into account the declared intention of Isis to continue to attack France ?

snubbleste

Dots1982 wrote: »

should read France, Germany and Belgium in the subject, if any mod can edit the subject be my guest...

Turkey, Russia, Kenya, Australia, USA...

For Forks Sake

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

What does 'put a bit of butter on the spuds' translate to??

Lube

jmayo

snubbleste wrote: »

Turkey, Russia, Kenya, Australia, USA...

Why do people keep mentioning Australia.
I know it is full of Irish on the lash and Aussies with complexes.
But aren't all the other non drinking immigrants kept on an island offshore ?

Dots1982

snubbleste wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

should read France, Germany and Belgium in the subject, if any mod can edit the subject be my guest...

Turkey, Russia, Kenya, Australia, USA...

Sweden, Morocco, ......while Poland, Czech rep and Hungary are free of these misfortunes. I wonder what their secret is.

snubbleste

jmayo wrote: »

Why do people keep mentioning Australia.
I know it is full of Irish on the lash and Aussies with complexes.
But aren't all the other non drinking immigrants kept on an island offshore ?

Well no, Man kills two in "Isis" siege in Sydney
Oh and they treat their children like Guantanamo inmates

jmayo

snubbleste wrote: »

Well no, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Sydney_hostage_crisis

3 killed.

Shure that is tiny in comparison to France (200 plus), UK (55), USA (3,000), Belgium (35), Spain (192), Turkey, Indonesia (250 plus), Russia (200 plus), Tunisia (28), Egypt (300 plus) and all the other touristy places one could visit.

Ah feck it I can't be assed anymore.

Dots1982

jmayo wrote: »

snubbleste wrote: »

Well no, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Sydney_hostage_crisis

3 killed.

Shure that is tiny in comparison to France (200 plus), UK (55), USA (3,000), Belgium (35), Spain (192), Turkey, Indonesia (250 plus), Russia (200 plus), Tunisia (28), Egypt (300 plus) and all the other touristy places one could visit.

Ah feck it I can't be assed anymore.

Its known as whataboutery...cite a multitude of alternative examples so to cloud and prevent any real debate.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dots1982 wrote: »

Its known as whataboutery...cite a multitude of alternative examples so to cloud and prevent any real debate.

Well, you haven't really put forward much of an argument to debate. Your question was should we advise against travellign to countries which suffer terrorist attacks? And then you cited three examples.

The responce was, well - lots of countries suffer terrorist examples, why are you choosing three specific examples instrad of others?

So the question now, is: does a terorist attack automatically presume a country is unsafe?

Arcade_Tryer

Soon hopefully.

Flights to France will reduce in price for those of us with some perspective.

I don't know if it's already been pointed out but France is the country that receives, far and away, the largest number of foreign tourists in the world each year.

Protecting that ongoing business is absolutely crucial to the French economy. In 2012, for instance, "The total contribution of travel and tourism represents 9.7% of GDP and supports 2.9 million jobs (10.9% of employment) in the country."(Source)

Richard Hillman

This war isn't going to just go away. Over the last 2month we have gone from quarterly terror attacks to weekly to daily. There have been plenty of foiled attacks which people dont seem to count.

Over the next 6 months we will see weekly terror attacks, with these eventually turning daily. And they will only increase. There is no scenario of where these attacks will not decrease unless something drastic is done.

We are at war. We need to accept we are at war and introduce war-time law making.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Richard Hillman wrote: »

This war isn't going to just go away. Over the last 2month we have gone from quarterly terror attacks to weekly to daily. There have been plenty of foiled attacks which people dodnt seen to count.

Over the next 6 months we will see weekly terror attacks, with these eventually turning daily. And they will only increase. There is no scenario of where these attacks will not decrease unless something drastic is done.

We are at war. We need to accept we are at war and introduce war-time law making.

Well, if you want to stay at home and live in a bunker while rationing your reserves, you go for it. I'm juts going to go about my life, thank you very much.