Suing VW over emissions scandal... Mod warning post 313

bazz26

Toyotafanboi

Dazzers wrote: »

Would you do us all a favor and go post on a thread that you actually have some valid input on instead of spreading bull about things you know nothing about.

There's only one person here spreading bull about things they know nothing about and it's not me.

Special Circumstances

ofcork wrote: »

I was reading today 32 employees of a tier one supplier to vw are accused of being part of the scheme.

Boche? Post up the link if you have, I'd be interested.

grogi

Dazzers wrote: »

/.../ I didn't choose my car with the environment in mind. /.../

The emotional distress caused by driving a polluting vehicle would actually be a valid basis for a suit . But you've admitted you give s..te about the environment...

You are nothing more than an über hypocrite.

iamtony

I bought a 151 vw effected by the problem 3 months ago, I never thought to ask the dealer about it and he never mentioned it. I wonder where I stand in all of this? It was an ex rental car so would the rental company who bought it new be the ones who would be claiming?
The rental company who owned it now have a fleet of 161's of the same vehicle, I wonder did they get a special deal of vw over the issue.

Fiskar

The punter will pay for the VW emissions scandal when the Government up the price of diesel in the budget. That is always the easy way out for the government where VW won't fix the car or pay money over in the way of a fine. No fines here!

ofcork

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Boche? Post up the link if you have, I'd be interested.

It was only part of a review of the tiguan in the examiner that it was mentioned.

grogi

iamtony wrote: »

I bought a 151 vw effected by the problem 3 months ago, I never thought to ask the dealer about it and he never mentioned it. I wonder where I stand in all of this? It was an ex rental car so would the rental company who bought it new be the ones who would be claiming?
The rental company who owned it now have a fleet of 161's of the same vehicle, I wonder did they get a special deal of vw over the issue.

What other loses do you suffer, apart from lack of sleep while thinking of all the golds you'll get from VW?!

Atlantic Dawn

It is impossible for any of the cars that the cheat device was fitted on to pass the EU emissions test with the same results with the device removed without a serious degrading of engine performance. The fix simply removes the defeat device functionality and without them supplying you with documentaion stating the post fix emissions is 100% a waste of time and a complete PR exercise for lightweight EU governments to accept.

iamtony

grogi wrote: »

What other loses do you suffer, apart from lack of sleep while thinking of all the golds you'll get from VW?!

Well the big worry I have is down the line. If they manage to keep the mpg and the performance the same after their retrofit my guess is the emmissions will just barely scrap through, which mean a few years from now when I go for an nct there's no room for error and its quite possible I won't be able to meet the requirements for nct.
Besides that I'm sure it will effect resale value to some extent.

Atlantic Dawn

iamtony wrote: »

Well the big worry I have is down the line. If they manage to keep the mpg and the performance the same after their retrofit my guess is the emmissions will just barely scrap through, which mean a few years from now when I go for an nct there's no room for error and its quite possible I won't be able to meet the requirements for nct.
Besides that I'm sure it will effect resale value to some extent.

Diesel emissions are not tested for the NCT.

iamtony

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Diesel emissions are not tested for the NCT.

Maybe not now but what if the introduce it?

grogi

iamtony wrote: »

Maybe not now but what if the introduce it?

So you'd would like a compensation for improbable failing of NCT (the car should pass after the fix) after even more improbable introduction of NOx testing.

Sound plan...

iamtony

grogi wrote: »

So you'd would like a compensation for improbable failing of NCT (the car should pass after the fix) after even more improbable introduction of NOx testing.

Sound plan...

What's with all the hostility in here? If there free money being given out by vw then I sure a hell would like a piece of that pie!

mickdw

iamtony wrote: »

What's with all the hostility in here? If there free money being given out by vw then I sure a hell would like a piece of that pie!

I'm with ya. VW cheated to gain market share and therefore made billions off it. They should be held accountable and customers compensated.
I wonder is this deal available to all manufactures? whereby vw are allowed classify the cars as being in a low emissions bracket and then simply paying the tax difference directly to the government. Surely that is giving them a sales advantage and amounts to illegal state aid?

grogi

iamtony wrote: »

What's with all the hostility in here? If there free money being given out by vw then I sure a hell would like a piece of that pie!

It is against the same posture that brought the insurance market to the mess it is right now. It is against any frivolous suits and using the courtroom for private games and gains.

As you said - free money. Compensation is not free money - it is COMPENSATION for SOMETHING. I keep asking - what do people want compensation for. And only thing I hear is "something that might happen in future". The car might fail NCT (maybe), the depreciation will be harder (maybe), the car might be banned from the road (not going to happen) etc etc. So, when all those horrible things happen, is the time to file a suit.

By filing now the plaintiffs are just diluting the gravity of the issue.

I hate what VW did and I have expressed it multiple times - I believe it should be made bankrupt. But the money should go to offset the pollution - by investing into clean motoring, exp. EV infrastructure. Not to be spend by Joe Average to buy another... VW.

Falcon L

I don't drive a VAG car, but I drove behind one once. How much can I claim? :angel:

grogi

mickdw wrote: »

I'm with ya. VW cheated to gain market share and therefore made billions off it. They should be held accountable and customers compensated.
I wonder is this deal available to all manufactures? whereby vw are allowed classify the cars as being in a low emissions bracket and then simply paying the tax difference directly to the government. Surely that is giving them a sales advantage and amounts to illegal state aid?

For what?

And you clearly don't understand the difference between what the cars are taxed on and what VW cheated on...

mickdw

grogi wrote: »

For what?

And you clearly don't understand the difference between what the cars are taxed on and what VW cheated on...

I actually do understand quite well. They admitted to co2 irregularities in Europe and that was where the point arose re vw paying any lost taxes directly to government as opposed to reclassifying cars already on the road.

Compensated for being sold a car that is nowhere near as clean as a customer would have believed whether it be nox or co2.
Compensated for loss due to reduced valuation on open market. May not be the case but needs assessing at least.
Compensated for time required to take car into vw for recall. Would amount to a days work missed for me.
Compensated for perhaps purchasing a car based on knowingly false advertising.

grogi

mickdw wrote: »

I actually do understand quite well. They admitted to co2 irregularities in Europe and that was where the point arose re vw paying any lost taxes directly to government as opposed to reclassifying cars already on the road.

Source please.

Compensated for being sold a car that is nowhere near as clean as a customer would have believed whether it be nox or co2.
Compensated for loss due to reduced valuation on open market. May not be the case but needs assessing at least.
Compensated for time required to take car into vw for recall. Would amount to a days work missed for me.
Compensated for perhaps purchasing a car based on knowingly false advertising.

1. Compensation is not due to consumer, but whole society.
2. Yes, needs assesement. But it was proven multiple times here there is no loss at the moment.
3. I like it.
4. Where's the loss there?

Toyotafanboi

On point 3 I believe you are currently offered and entitled to a complimentary, fuelled courtesy car for up to 24hrs while your car is in for the campaign so there's no real reason to miss work.

Maybe you might miss an hour if you don't live too close to a dealer but if they are offering a free replacement vehicle, there's no excuse for missing a day really.

iamtony

grogi wrote: »

It is against the same posture that brought the insurance market to the mess it is right now. It is against any frivolous suits and using the courtroom for private games and gains.

As you said - free money. Compensation is not free money - it is COMPENSATION for SOMETHING. I keep asking - what do people want compensation for. And only thing I hear is "something that might happen in future". The car might fail NCT (maybe), the depreciation will be harder (maybe), the car might be banned from the road (not going to happen) etc etc. So, when all those horrible things happen, is the time to file a suit.

By filing now the plaintiffs are just diluting the gravity of the issue.

I hate what VW did and I have expressed it multiple times - I believe it should be made bankrupt. But the money should go to offset the pollution - by investing into clean motoring, exp. EV infrastructure. Not to be spend by Joe Average to buy another... VW.

It is compensation for something it's fairly obvious what the compensation is for.

It's nothing like the insurance industry, vw won't put the price up because the lost a load of money on payouts.

The bottom line is they lied and cheated and mislead everybody, they accept that fact, judges in the US accept that, what is your problem and why are you so defensive on the issue? Is you job at steak over it or something?

iamtony

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

On point 3 I believe you are currently offered and entitled to a complimentary, fuelled courtesy car for up to 24hrs while your car is in for the campaign so there's no real reason to miss work.

Maybe you might miss an hour if you don't live too close to a dealer but if they are offering a free replacement vehicle, there's no excuse for missing a day really.

I have an excuse I'm a taxi driver the rental car wouldn't help me from missing the day(or maybe half day).

Toyotafanboi

iamtony wrote: »

I have an excuse I'm a taxi driver the rental car wouldn't help me from missing the day(or maybe half day).

The update can be done in around 30 mins, you could go on your lunch

Either way, you're viewing that from a business perspective and your requirements of the vehicle are different to that of a private user.

mickdw

grogi wrote: »

Source please.

Ah it's everywhere. It's not up for debate at this stage

1. Compensation is not due to consumer, but whole society.

Customer made pollution choice, arguably paying more for non polluting car. Customers money made the purchase. Customer entitled to compensation.

2. Yes, needs assesement. But it was proven multiple times here there is no loss at the moment.

As I say, should be looked at regardless.

3. I like it.

Yes and regardless of hire cars, I'm an hour from dealer so significant time involved.

4. Where's the loss there?

Fraudulent misrepresentation clearly at play here. It is comical to argue that no loss here. This type of misrepresentation over and above other forms such as negligent misrepresentation can easily invalidate contracts. So should vw offer compensation or face the prospect of people returning cars based on invalid contract due to fraudulent misrepresentation which can be easily proven and the losses associated with it reasonably assessed. A good solicitor could surely make the case that having bought a car on false pretenses, that a customer was entitled to invalidate the contract.

iamtony

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The update can be done in around 30 mins, you could go on your lunch

Either way, you're viewing that from a business perspective and your requirements of the vehicle are different to that of a private user.

The update CAN be done in about 30 minutes, although its not just an update on my engine they need to ass that extra part. In reality you'd be their for an hour or 2 plus if I had an appointment with them at 12 is have to stop work at 10ish just incase I got a long job or something.
I Don't think it should make a difference if I'm a business user or not its still an excuse;-)
Anyway this isn't a big issue either way. In reality I'd have a service done at the same time and get them to lookat a few warranty issues that need attention I was just making the point.

grogi

iamtony wrote: »

It is compensation for something it's fairly obvious what the compensation is for.

I start to get tired of the same old song...

iamtony wrote: »

It's nothing like the insurance industry, vw won't put the price up because the lost a load of money on payouts.

I am not talking about the result, but the source of the mess. There is some "free money" - so let's sue...

The bottom line is they lied and cheated and mislead everybody, they accept that fact, judges in the US accept that, what is your problem and why are you so defensive on the issue? Is you job at steak over it or something?

No, I have no affiliation to VAG nor motor industry at all.

And I have said it many many times - VW needs to pay. An example should be made of it, they should sweat like Finns in a sauna...

But that money should be spent wisely - investments in sustainable means of transport. I hate Dublin but I might hate it less if a few more tram lines were built from that money. Or EV. Or hydrogen.

iamtony

grogi wrote: »

I start to get tired of the same old song...



I am not talking about the result, but the source of the mess. There is some "free money" - so let's sue...



No, I have no affiliation to VAG nor motor industry at all.

And I have said it many many times - VW needs to pay. An example should be made of it, they should sweat like Finns in a sauna...

But that money should be spent wisely - investments in sustainable means of transport. I hate Dublin but I might hate it less if a few more tram lines were built from that money. Or EV. Or hydrogen.

Well my apologies I hadn't read the whole thread but I don't see why the state should be gaining again(remember the vrt they collect) when they didn't buy the car they won't loose out because of this at all but the people who actually paid for the cars will. You can argue all you want that we may or may not loose out, you could do that all day but it's still won't change the fact that we will more than likely suffer one way of another.

colm_mcm

Is the court case based on the state recalculating and reapplying VRT and road tax to dieselgate cars? Cos that isn't gonna happen.

grogi

iamtony wrote: »

Well my apologies I hadn't read the whole thread but I don't see why the state should be gaining again(remember the vrt they collect) when they didn't buy the car they won't loose out because of this at all but the people who actually paid for the cars will. You can argue all you want that we may or may not loose out, you could do that all day but it's still won't change the fact that we will more than likely suffer one way of another.

Your tunnel vision and the lack of wider view is just scary.

Let me start by stating that it is not government's money. It is money of Irish people the Government is simply managing. It does not go to the money pool Taoiseach swims every morning, but to finance HSE, help single mothers, elderly etc. You might not always agree the money is spend wisely or efficiently - but that's a different matter.

If the government collects additional money, be it from taxes or fines, it does not win anything. There is not a game we vs them. That money goes to finance those things and to pay the dept.



Let's continue - the point of making VW sweat is to discourage similar behaviour in future. The penalty should be so big that it is not worth playing the cheating game.

Regardless of what the penalty is or should be. The penalty is not about now, it is about tomorrow. It always is with justice. What good does locking a murderer away make? Hardly any now... Sure there is a bit of the feeling that justice is being served so much needed by the families and relatives of the victims. But it achieves two much more important things in future: same monster is not going to touch anybody else IN FUTURE and a different monster might think twice before doing same IN FUTURE.


And back to compensations... Rule is simple: only when you suffer a loss - only then demand compensation. Right now it is at the "we might suffer in future" stage, you're not even sure in what way...