Any club leagues around at the moment?

shamrock2004

Hi all

Are there any club leagues around at the moment I could partake in? Or any starting up soon? I have a conpetitive license and am looking to get out there and build up experience racing (total greenhorn). I saw the mark mullen league run by drogheda wheelers but that is finishing up on monday

JK.BMC

What club are you in? Where are you based?

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

What club are you in? Where are you based?

I'm in a local club out around the Sutton / Howth area. Distance isn't really an issue for me.

JK.BMC

shamrock2004 wrote: »

I'm in a local club out around the Sutton / Howth area. Distance isn't really an issue for me.

Well surely that club/committee will have info on such leagues that are open to you. That would be my first port of call.
The idea of buying a license and just rocking up to a race/races is an issue that has had numerous threads and discussions both here and elsewhere. Not really advisable to just turn up without any notion of how to ride in a racing bunch - I'm assuming you have done some fast group riding of sorts, yeah?
Good to see you are interested but chat to people already racing in your locality and see how it goes from there.

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

Well surely that club/committee will have info on such leagues that are open to you. That would be my first port of call.
The idea of buying a license and just rocking up to a race/races is an issue that has had numerous threads and discussions both here and elsewhere. Not really advisable to just turn up without any notion of how to ride in a racing bunch - I'm assuming you have done some fast group riding of sorts, yeah?
Good to see you are interested but chat to people already racing in your locality and see how it goes from there.

No they don't. The club is pretty much brand new and only has 1 other person racing in womens races. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how else people are supposed to gain racing experience by not just turning up to your first race anyway...

I'm well acquainted with cycling in a group and the etiquette that goes with it and have also ridden in some fast groups. People have said that club leagues are a good place to start as there are smaller groups and you learn quickly. I know someone who did an A4 race last week and said there were 100 riders in the group, which is quite large if you haven't done an actual race before. I have my eye on the brendan campbell memorial race on Sunday but am not sure how big the group will be. Not to worry, i'll keep looking around.

dragratchet

id say most club leagues are between the mid-point and end of their leagues around now. our own hasnt many races left at this point.

Derrydingle

Most of the a4 races are about the 80 number mark but give it a go if you think you be ok

lennymc

and hold your line - no sudden swerving and you should be ok.

JK.BMC

lennymc wrote: »

and hold your line - no sudden swerving and you should be ok.

Here Here!

07Lapierre

lennymc wrote: »

and hold your line - no sudden swerving and you should be ok. everyone will be OK

JK.BMC

shamrock2004 wrote: »

No they don't. The club is pretty much brand new and only has 1 other person racing in womens races. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how else people are supposed to gain racing experience by not just turning up to your first race anyway...

I'm well acquainted with cycling in a group and the etiquette that goes with it and have also ridden in some fast groups. People have said that club leagues are a good place to start as there are smaller groups and you learn quickly. I know someone who did an A4 race last week and said there were 100 riders in the group, which is quite large if you haven't done an actual race before. I have my eye on the brendan campbell memorial race on Sunday but am not sure how big the group will be. Not to worry, i'll keep looking around.

I do understand your predicament and would hope you get to go racing in due course. But you really need to get chatting/riding with people who have some racing experience; it is perhaps unfortunate that you are in a cycling club in which you say there is nobody, apart from one lady cyclist, who knows anything about bike racing. If you are serious about racing, then you may find it necessary to join another club with the requisite type of rider/spins to suit you.

How about the Mondello Open Race next Tuesday- probably the best place to learn how to race and corner. It will be fast but generally a nice starting point. Once you don't expect to win or ride away from everybody on the first lap. Finishing in one piece with your peers is a good initial aim.

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

Once you don't expect to win or ride away from everybody on the first lap. Finishing in one piece with your peers is a good initial aim.

This is exactly my aim - no attacking, try not get dropped from the bunch and hold my place 10 - 15 riders in. In fact, I have someone with racing experience who should be able to acompany me also which is a bonus. Mondello sounds good next week. I'll check it out. Thanks again.

JK.BMC

shamrock2004 wrote: »

This is exactly my aim - no attacking, try not get dropped from the bunch and hold my place 10 - 15 riders in. In fact, I have someone with racing experience who should be able to acompany me also which is a bonus. Mondello sounds good next week. I'll check it out. Thanks again.

Best of luck.
Off the brakes on the bends.
Nice and smooth. Follow the wheels in front.
Enjoy!

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

Best of luck.
Off the brakes on the bends.
Nice and smooth. Follow the wheels in front.
Enjoy!

Actually, on that point - care to elaborate a bit more on cornering (avoiding the brakes)? I had an experienced racer take me out last monday and show me the basics of watching the apex in the corners. I drove up to the circuit today in dorgheda with my bike and did 2 laps to get a feel for it and there are 1 or 2 really tight bends so in that case you can't avoid braking.

JK.BMC

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Actually, on that point - care to elaborate a bit more on cornering (avoiding the brakes)? I had an experienced racer take me out last monday and show me the basics of watching the apex in the corners. I drove up to the circuit today in dorgheda with my bike and did 2 laps to get a feel for it and there are 1 or 2 really tight bends so in that case you can't avoid braking.

It's not advisable to explain braking/cornering in detail without actually doing it- much easier to demonstrate/practice etc. Lots of other club colleagues/racers showed me over the years.

In simple terms, what I was suggesting is to get your braking done before the turn and keep your speed/line through the bend, nice and smooth, ALWAYS looking where you want the bike to go. (It usually does, with varying results) What I notice from my own years of riding Mondello is that some riders shoot up the inside, then brake hard at the apex and either lose the wheel on exit or cut somebody up trying to correct.
Anyway, as I said, better to practice than to talk about it. It comes naturally to some and not to others. Hopefully you will be great once you get going

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

It's not advisable to explain braking/cornering in detail without actually doing it- much easier to demonstrate/practice etc. Lots of other club colleagues/racers showed me over the years.

In simple terms, what I was suggesting is to get your braking done before the turn and keep your speed/line through the bend, nice and smooth, ALWAYS looking where you want the bike to go. (It usually does, with varying results) What I notice from my own years of riding Mondello is that some riders shoot up the inside, then brake hard at the apex and either lose the wheel on exit or cut somebody up trying to correct.
Anyway, as I said, better to practice than to talk about it. It comes naturally to some and not to others. Hopefully you will be great once you get going

Thanks again for all the advice! Will post back on sunday and let you know how I get on. Have a good weekend.

JK.BMC

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Thanks again for all the advice! Will post back on sunday and let you know how I get on. Have a good weekend.

Sound.
By the way, the Brendan Campbell Memorial is one of the best and hardest little circuit races in the country. Pity there aren't a few more like it- expect a tough work out. Tip: downhill is just as important as uphill...

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

Sound.
By the way, the Brendan Campbell Memorial is one of the best and hardest little circuit races in the country. Pity there aren't a few more like it- expect a tough work out. Tip: downhill is just as important as uphill...

Oh I've heard it's a baptism of fire. A friend who has raced it many times said "Ha, good luck trying to just sit in the group. It flies from the off and because of the rolling hills, it's very tough". Oh well, no harm in trying but it's really gonna hurt. Only solace is that (hopefully) I won't be the only one suffering.

StevieGriff

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Oh I've heard it's a baptism of fire. A friend who has raced it many times said "Ha, good luck trying to just sit in the group. It flies from the off and because of the rolling hills, it's very tough". Oh well, no harm in trying but it's really gonna hurt. Only solace is that (hopefully) I won't be the only one suffering.

Try not to sit last man, find a lad whose good and wide and looks strong enough not to drop the wheel but not strong enough to attack and sit in behind him. Be grand.

eeeee

Hmmmn I'm quite a cautious person but OP would you not be better off learning how to race from more experienced riders this year, you can become an associate member of any club you like. Train with racing people, work on your bike handling skills, learn from more experienced people, get fitter, faster, stronger over this summer and winter, race a club league, then you'll be flying this time next year.
One small deviation from you due to inexperience could put a guy(s) flying behind/around you.
It's incredible really there is no accreditation for racing on the road. If you do a DIY one OP you won't regret it!

shamrock2004

nee wrote: »

If you do a DIY one OP you won't regret it!

Meaning club league? To be honest, if I'm "not feeling it" during the race, I can just drop out and go home. This is A4 and I've heard handling skills over all are not great, meaning surely I won't be the only ab initio racer. Argh! I'm not sure what to do now. You've planted the seed of doubt in my mind... maybe I'll just leave it and focus on next year.

Wishbone Ash

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Actually, on that point - care to elaborate a bit more on cornering (avoiding the brakes)? I had an experienced racer take me out last monday and show me the basics of watching the apex in the corners. I drove up to the circuit today in dorgheda with my bike and did 2 laps to get a feel for it and there are 1 or 2 really tight bends so in that case you can't avoid braking.

I don't race so please feel free to tell me to F off but when you brake the centre of gravity is thrown forward, when you accelerate it's thrown back. Therefore brake before the corner - not on the apex, and accelerate out of it. I may not be explaining it very well!

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Meaning club league? To be honest, if I'm "not feeling it" during the race, I can just drop out and go home. This is A4 and I've heard handling skills over all are not great, meaning surely I won't be the only ab initio racer. Argh! I'm not sure what to do now. You've planted the seed of doubt in my mind...

If your club does not have a racing culture, would you not be better off joining a club near you with one such as Clontarf CC, Dublin Wheelers CC or McNally Swords CC? That way you could benefit from the winter training spins and race with the same lads when the club leagues begin again in April/May.

BTW - just going by your Strava rides, you'll sail through A4 and will probably get upgraded to A3.

eeeee

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Meaning club league? To be honest, if I'm "not feeling it" during the race, I can just drop out and go home. This is A4 and I've heard handling skills over all are not great, meaning surely I won't be the only ab initio racer. Argh! I'm not sure what to do now. You've planted the seed of doubt in my mind...

Meaning go out with more experienced riders, do a club league etc.

Yeah I never raced A4, thank fcuk we have out own category on the road. So I can't say what the bike handling is like. What I will say is I have heard about it and I will never, ever race A4 as long as I don't have to!
I don't think adding a lack of skills to a bad bunch would help the situation, I can only see it being more dangerous to you and everyone around you.

If you're relatively new to cycling, enjoy yourself first, get fitter and stronger, work on your skills. It will be a hell of a lot more enjoyable when you can properly take part, and trust your skills, without endangering yourself or others. I don't mean to put a downer on it at all, you could race and be fine, but it doesn't sound like you have experienced any close, fast bunch riding at all, and an A4 bunch mightn't be the best or most enjoyable introduction for you or anyone else around you!

All that said, I personally think it's insane you can just get a license and rock up to a race without putting any work into bunch skills etc. This is the reason I hear A4 is so crashy and dangerous. However the vast and overwhelming majority of people who race it survive unscathed, stories and close ones notwithstanding!

It's up to you, I wouldn't, but as I said I'm quite a cautious person on a bike and only racing a few years (mainly on track). I waited for someone to tell me I could and was ready to race before I started, different strokes and all that.

If you do race, make sure you trust your cornering 100% before you even think about doing it in a fast moving bunch. Do your braking before the corner, you'll be wanting to go like stink out of them. Don't jam on the brakes in the bunch either, freewheel if you need to slow down first. Hold your line. Or give yourself room and race at the back but that's the hardest place to do it from! But as I said I mainly race on track, I know fcuk all about racing on the road, more experienced people can advise you a million times better than I can.

shamrock2004

Once again lads, thanks for interjecting and giving invaluable feedback. I suppose the roots of the problem are:

1. I did not expect to get hooked on cycling - I've done over 4,000km since april and can't get enough of it (done a few sportives and have experience of at least cycling in a group with the club) and thus may be jumping the gun a bit.
2. I am actually surprised (now that you mention it) that anyone can just upgrade to an ipen road competitive license without having graduated via a club league.

I'll think some more about it tomorrow and ask more people for their feedback. It seems 50/50 with some saying "go for it" and some saying "earn your stripes first". If I don't feel right about it on Sunday, I'll still be there to watch. I want to be safe after all and don't want to jeopardise my (or some one else's) safety.

Wishbone Ash - I know someone in swords cc (you know him well) who said I can join the saturday morning club spins where I can hone my skills. I can't wait to give it a go.

Thanks again lads and have a good weekend on the bikes.

Delboy007

Man just go and do a race u will wonder what d fuzz is about. as your strava ride show u would be well able to race. just try and stay up d middle or near d frourt and u will be fine.

lennymc

I'd say do it, be aware of your surroundings, no sudden unexpected braking or sideways movements, brake in a straight line coming into corners and certainly don't under estimate an a4 bunch on a vey selective course. The hills can be sprints, the flats are normally flat out and the downhills are balls to the wall. There is very little respite on the circuit, but it is great.

Derrydingle

shamrock2004 wrote:

Are there any club leagues around at the moment I could partake in? Or any starting up soon? I have a conpetitive license and am looking to get out there and build up experience racing (total greenhorn). I saw the mark mullen league run by drogheda wheelers but that is finishing up on monday

Did you do the race today and if so how did you get on?

dahat

Derrydingle wrote: »

Did you do the race today and if so how did you get on?

Awaiting an updated report also, mad curious.

shamrock2004

Hi all. Yes, I went ahead and did it on the way home from the north. Was so nervous over the last week and the inclement weather didn't do much to settle my nerves.

I finished 1/2 lap behind the main group. I got dropped after lap 1 - my quads were screaming at me and I just didn't have the legs to keep up after the first lap. During this first lap, I had moved up to the first 1/3 of the group but couldn't hold it.

By lap 2 my mind was telling me over and over "just drop off when you pass the finish line after this lap and go home", but I just couldn't give up.

Finished in a group of 4 lads and we did rolling turns all the way to the end, so I completed the race.

In summary:

Did 8 laps in 1:24:48 at an average speed of 36 km/hr.

It was 1000 times more difficult than I could have ever anticipated. The group was seriously fast - even on thay tough circuit. Someone who has raced before told me on friday - "there are a lot of guys in A4 that are faster than they think they are". Lennymc was bang on the money - there seem to be people out there who underestimate A4 based on feedback I was given this week.

I should have warmed up (but I don't know how to warm up for a race).

There were only 2 hairy moments. The first was my wheel came close to hitting the wheel in front. Second was a rider in front of me dropped his bidon and I managed to avoid going over it.

Other than that, even in the much smaller group and wet conditions, I didn't find it really dangerous. I held my line on the straight and in the turns, I signalled any time I wanted to move my line (and waited for the rider behind me to shout "ok") and I never braked hard. The problem in focusing on all those elements meant that I ignored (for a while anyway) the undulation of the roads on this circuit and the legs got heavy. However after getting dropped and joining the smaller group, I really tuned into my cadence. You really are juggling so many things at once.

Next time I'll turn off all speed displays on my garmin so I don't get a shock when I look at it during the race. My mind has the propensity to think "holy jaysus - no way you'll be able to hold that speed for another lap".

I'm only 3 months into cycling and I've popped my cherry. I'm so happy I finished and didn't give up! Delighted with my progress over the last 3 months and I will get stronger over time and I really believe in my ability I think i'll leave it there for the open road racing and come back to it when the season takes up again next year. In the interim, I'll see if I can get into some club league and build my strength and skills there.

Well done to the winners and those who finished in the group, big kudos.

This was a great thread and a real eye-opener. Thanks for all the replies lads!! Keep her lit

Oh also - I stuck around to watch the A1/A2 group for a while.... wow!!!

whacker00

Well done @shamrock2004 fair play for jumping in and good man for completing the race

Been following the thread as I'd love to do the same. A good base over the next few months and will definitely give it a go next season

shamrock2004

whacker00 wrote: »

Well done @shamrock2004 fair play for jumping in and good man for completing the race

Been following the thread as I'd love to do the same. A good base over the next few months and will definitely give it a go next season

Yeh do. You won't regret it - well, maybe you will at the point you're feeling the burn, the sweat is pouring down the face and you slobbering all over yourself. But when it's done and dusted, it's a great strength building exercise. Even more so, after seeing what the other lads can do, you'll be inspired to work harder to get to their level.

Oymyakon

I've been thinking about getting into racing for a few months and this is actually quite motivating, fair play Shamrock!

ht9zni1gs28crp

Id say there's a fair few A3's would struggle to get out of A4 with this current crop........

There are crashes in every Cat not just A4. I have noticed myself that the handling of the A4 bunch has improved a hell of a lot since I did a few races in 2014. I didn't race at all in 2015 but it was a pleasant surprise to find it all a lot less nervous and frantic this year. Maybe that's just the effect of always riding near the front and away from the 'wardrobe' full of sprinters at the rear though.....

Delboy007

Well done lad, keep at it u will notice that for just doing that one race u have learned a lot and next time u will stick with the man group for the longer, yea there is a lot going on in a race a lot to remember all at one time, but it gets easier. You had a great average speed, were u out on your own for long or did u join that smaller group right away after u got dropped by the main group.



It is some buzz race and when u get into a group and are rolling all the time it is great and it helps u push yourself.

shamrock2004

Delboy007 wrote: »

Well done lad, keep at it u will notice that for just doing that one race u have learned a lot and next time u will stick with the man group for the longer, yea there is a lot going on in a race a lot to remember all at one time, but it gets easier. You had a great average speed, were u out on your own for long or did u join that smaller group right away after u got dropped by the main group.



It is some buzz race and when u get into a group and are rolling all the time it is great and it helps u push yourself.

Was out on my own for a little hile until the smaller group formed and we had 1 fella calling the rolling turns which was great experience. Finished 1/2 lap behind the main group. Someone else told me that the A4 average speed yesterday was the same as the A3 shannonside gp race hehe

Delboy007

shamrock2004 wrote: »

Delboy007 wrote: »

Well done lad, keep at it u will notice that for just doing that one race u have learned a lot and next time u will stick with the man group for the longer, yea there is a lot going on in a race a lot to remember all at one time, but it gets easier. You had a great average speed, were u out on your own for long or did u join that smaller group right away after u got dropped by the main group.



It is some buzz race and when u get into a group and are rolling all the time it is great and it helps u push yourself.

Was out on my own for a little hile until the smaller group formed and we had 1 fella calling the rolling turns which was great experience. Finished 1/2 lap behind the main group. Someone else told me that the A4 average speed yesterday was the same as the A3 shannonside gp race hehe

Yea that sounds like it was fast fast, you were not far behind the main group. keep at it and def join a club league it is great experience from that

shamrock2004

Delboy007 wrote: »

Yea that sounds like it was fast fast, you were not far behind the main group. keep at it and def join a club league it is great experience from that

Yeh I was poking around the lads strava from the race yesterday and looks like a lot of them earned their stripes in club leagues. Sounds like a good place to start. Cheers pal

JK.BMC

Good man- well done for getting stuck in. Told ya it was a tough race but racing is not meant to be easy. So fair play. I wonder did you get dropped because you were being cautious or was it because you felt like the pace was too hot?

Yes, join a better club perhaps and get club racing; you will enjoy it no doubt. And while strava is an interesting app and commands lots of attention, in my experience it is a very unlikely source of useful info if you are looking to improve performances in races. Something to look at afterwards maybe, but don't fall into the trap of basing ability off strava- lots of strava warriors would get dropped on lap 1 in Mondello cos they can't corner efficiently or may not be comfortable in a quick twitching bunch at pace.
For me strava is good for time trialling but not much else, since it is irrelevant to me how many metres I climbed in a week etc.

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

Good man- well done for getting stuck in. Told ya it was a tough race but racing is not meant to be easy. So fair play. I wonder did you get dropped because you were being cautious or was it because you felt like the pace was too hot?

It was simply too hot. My legs started to go on lap 2 at the drag where that first sharp left is after you go past the finish line. Just couldn't hold the 39km/hr so dropped back to a pace I could hold, yet still dig deep. I'll be all set for it next year.

JK.BMC

shamrock2004 wrote: »

It was simply too hot. My legs started to go on lap 2 at the drag where that first sharp left is after you go past the finish line. Just couldn't hold the 39km/hr so dropped back to a pace I could hold, yet still dig deep. I'll be all set for it next year.

You will be set for next week! Oldcastle GP with the lads from TC Racing- it might suit you better. That's if you are not heading to Mondello tomorrow.... ðŸ˜

lennymc

shamrock - be sure to get a good warm up in. A good warm up should involve some hardish efforts and really get the blood pumping. Generally the shorter and harder the race, the more you need to warm up! That race is straight into a drag so a warm up is cruical! It's all a learning curve tho.

http://pressphotos.photoshelter.com/gallery/Brendan-Campbell-Memorial-2016/G00004tGZPXkNW88

shamrock2004

JK.BMC wrote: »

You will be set for next week! Oldcastle GP with the lads from TC Racing- it might suit you better. That's if you are not heading to Mondello tomorrow.... ðŸ˜

Ah jaysus lads, was only planning on doing the one for now...! Have you got a link for oldcastle GP? Interested in having a look. I think I'd rather build up the racing legs before giving another race a go but maybe cant hurt to have another bite of the cherry.