Administrative Officer - Dublin City Council

princess007

Advertised on the DCC website. The closing date for applications is 4/8/2016.

Heart Break Kid

I know these are middle management positions but would any be aware if these positions would be suitable for graduates? or are they ideally looking for more experienced people.

billyhead

How secure are County council administration jobs compared to the security of tenure in the civil service

Creol1

billyhead wrote: »

How secure are County council administration jobs compared to the security of tenure in the civil service

They would essentially be the same. In both cases, compulsory redundancies are unheard of.

billyhead

Creol1 wrote: »

They would essentially be the same. In both cases, compulsory redundancies are unheard of.

The pay scales are completely different then an AO in the civil service. Is an AO in the county council an equivalent grade to the HEO in the civil service as looking at the payscales they are near enough identical?

The_Conductor

€47,013; €48,187; €49,559; €50,935; €52,313, €53,541 ; €54,800; €56,020; €57,235 (Maximum); €59,322 (1st LSI) (after 3 years satisfactory
service on the Maximum); €61,418 (2nd LSI) (after 3 years satisfactory service on the 1st LSI).

Link to the post booklets etc here

In comparison a civil service Administrative Officer payscale is:

€ 33,247; € 36,194; € 39,967; € 42,838; € 45,711; € 48,593; € 51,466; € 54,329; LSI1 € 56,314; LSI2 € 58,294

It would appear that its Administrative officer is far better remunerated in Dublin City Council- than in the civil service.

Slydice

Looks closer to HEO payscales

Creol1

billyhead wrote: »

The pay scales are completely different then an AO in the civil service. Is an AO in the county council an equivalent grade to the HEO in the civil service as looking at the payscales they are near enough identical?

When I said "essentially the same", what I was referring to was the security of tenure for administrative positions, not equating this specific grade with the grade of the same name in the Civil Service.

billyhead

The_Conductor wrote: »

€47,013; €48,187; €49,559; €50,935; €52,313, €53,541 ; €54,800; €56,020; €57,235 (Maximum); €59,322 (1st LSI) (after 3 years satisfactory
service on the Maximum); €61,418 (2nd LSI) (after 3 years satisfactory service on the 1st LSI).

Link to the post booklets etc here

In comparison a civil service Administrative Officer payscale is:

€ 33,247; € 36,194; € 39,967; € 42,838; € 45,711; € 48,593; € 51,466; € 54,329; LSI1 € 56,314; LSI2 € 58,294

It would appear that its Administrative officer is far better remunerated in Dublin City Council- than in the civil service.

The_Conductor,

Will you apply for this?

The_Conductor

billyhead wrote: »

The_Conductor,

Will you apply for this?

No- because the terms and conditions associated with the post differ from those in the civil service- not leastly- I would not have the guaranteed security of tenure that I have given up significant pay to achieve.

I took fully a 50% cut in pay to join the civil service- because I was willing to put a price on the benefits which were then in place in the civil service- most of which have now been eroded or ended. The one benefit I have- that I most certainly will not be offered ever again in any organisation- public sector or otherwise- is the right to retire at 60 on a reduced (7/8) pension. The public sector pension scheme, as it was at the time, was actively try to encourage people to leave at the time I joined (late 90s) and a lot of the benefits of the pre-95 scheme had not yet been unwound (they certainly have been at this stage!).

If I were to join the local authority- I would get full transfer of my civil service accrued pension rights- at current accrual rates- however, I'd go onto the new public sector superannuation scheme- under which pensionable rights do not vest until age 68- or reduced rights at any age over 65 providing you have 40 years service- reduced by whatever the old age contributory pension is- even if you can't claim the contributory old age pension till age 68 or 70.

I.e. I'd be sacrificing probably the only benefit that I've left that I paid for (I bought notional service- which included taking out an additional mortgage on the house)- for a loss of security of tenure, and a greatly diminished pension entitlement (despite having paid over almost 40k to the Department of Finance to buy the 40 years service that I wouldn't have had at age 65 (and taking the 50% reduction in pay from the private sector).........

No matter how I look at it- the figures do not add up for me- and given what I'd be giving up- I'd be completely insane to apply..........

If the Department of Finance offered me back the 40k+ I gave them to buy notional service- with interest for the last 18 years- to move- I might consider it- as it would conveniently pay off my mortgage plus some (depending on what the interest rate I was granted on it was).

As you're probably aware- the pension schemes in the public sector have been changed numerous times (8 by my count, since the 1995 earthquake)- progressively reducing the benefits that they vest on prospective retirees- since 1995. The changes are not retroactive- i.e. if you came in on a scheme which was in place in 1998- they can't take those rights from you- however, if you change employer to another organisation (for the purpose of rights- the civil service is viewed as an umbrella organisation- whereas the public sector is external to this umbrella)- you acquire rights that are present in the organisation in which you move to..........

There is a scheme called 'The Public Sector Transfer Network' which 'manages' the transfer between different organisations- however, it does not account for cases like mine- and DoF would be highly unlikely to sanction me moving to a public sector body out of the civil service on the rights which I accrued and bought at the time.

In retrospect- buying all those rights with a lumpsum was money wisely spent at the time- though I had my doubts.

BrianD3

The_Conductor wrote: »

If I were to join the local authority- I would get full transfer of my civil service accrued pension rights- at current accrual rates- however, I'd go onto the new public sector superannuation scheme- under which pensionable rights do not vest until age 68- or reduced rights at any age over 65 providing you have 40 years service- reduced by whatever the old age contributory pension is- even if you can't claim the contributory old age pension till age 68 or 70.
.
.
however, if you change employer to another organisation (for the purpose of rights- the civil service is viewed as an umbrella organisation- whereas the public sector is external to this umbrella)- you acquire rights that are present in the organisation in which you move to..........

Are you 100% sure on the above points. The above is not my understanding of how the Single Public Service Scheme works. If a late 90s entrant to the civil service were to resign from the civil service and take up a position in a LA within 26 weeks of resigning, I don't believe that they would be regarded as a "New entrant" and have a retirement age of 68.

The Single Public Service Scheme applies to:

the Civil Service, Local Authorities, Education Sector, Health Sector, to Gardaí, Defence Forces, Prison Officers, Firefighters, the Regulatory Sector, and all non-commercial semi-state bodies. It also applies to members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, to the Judiciary, the President, the Comptroller and Auditor General and to Qualifying and Designated Office Holders.

Having read some of the documents on the scheme I get why you might have the understanding you have but I don't agree. It is vital to distinguish between the terms "single public service scheme" "public service", "public sector" and "public servants". The Single Public Service Scheme applies to civil servants (new entrants) yet civil servants are not public servants or part of the public service. Civil servants are part of the public sector.

In official documents on the single scheme the terms public servant and public service are used in what seems to be to be an imprecise manner.

eg from the FAQ question 2

2. Who does the Single Scheme apply to? The Single Scheme applies to pensionable first-time entrants to the public service recruited on or after 1 January 2013 (the commencement date of the Single Scheme). It also applies to former public servants returning to public service employment on new pensionable contracts, having previously ceased to be a public servant for more than 26 weeks.

Creol1

The_Conductor wrote: »

No- because the terms and conditions associated with the post differ from those in the civil service- not leastly- I would not have the guaranteed security of tenure that I have given up significant pay to achieve.

What is the difference in terms of security of tenure?

BrianD3 wrote: »

Having read some of the documents on the scheme I get why you might have the understanding you have but I don't agree. It is vital to distinguish between the terms "single public service scheme" "public service", "public sector" and "public servants". The Single Public Service Scheme applies to civil servants (new entrants) yet civil servants are not public servants or part of the public service. Civil servants are part of the public sector.

The civil service is part of the public service.

Zipppy

BrianD3 wrote: »

Are you 100% sure on the above points. The above is not my understanding of how the Single Public Service Scheme works. If a late 90s entrant to the civil service were to resign from the civil service and take up a position in a LA within 26 weeks of resigning, I don't believe that they would be regarded as a "New entrant" and have a retirement age of 68.

I'd be agreeing with you on this one...


Anyone thinking of applying for AO in DCC be aware that they differ from AO jobs in CS..

AO CS is a graduate entry role whereby you'll essentially 'work your way up' (The Conductor might advise on this?)

AO in DCC (and other LAs) is a middle role now increasingly becoming a senior management role..as SEOs (CS AP equivalents) retire they are being replaced by AOs who are now expected to 'step up to the mark' and perform senior roles...for lots less money obviously..
You will be expected to have significant staff management experience..

The_Conductor

Zipppy wrote: »

AO CS is a graduate entry role whereby you'll essentially 'work your way up' (The Conductor might advise on this?)

In the civil service both AO and EO are now considered to be Graduate entry level- and indeed- have been migrated by the Public Appointment Service onto the new(ish) Gradpublicjobs.ie website.

Traditionally AOs were considered to be a fast track grade for AP in the civil service- however, this is no longer the case- all promotions- other than HEO- are now open to all grades (and indeed, in a few unusual cases- you have COs getting AP- such as recently happened in DSP and Agriculture).

The AO in the civil service probably has little, if any, staff management skills- despite being an equivalent grade to HEO- the intention being they'd be taken on for research type rolls- however, this is changing.

In a civil service context- you have AOs with limited promotion opportunities- competing with EOs who are now defacto graduate recruitment- while the only purely promotional post still there is HEO- and the HEO grade would tend to be the only one that has staff management skills associated with it.........

A bit of a mess really........

gazzer

Im definitely applying for that. Very poor promotion opportunities in the Civil Service Department I am currently in. I also just narrowly missed getting to the qualifying stage of the recent HEO competition. Salary scale is pretty good for this position. Prob not a hope in hell of getting it as only 1 in 5 positions are open but I may as well give it a shot

gazzer

Did many people here apply for the positions?