New M50 toll signs

Mint Sauce

Basically drivers filter out the blue motorway signs unless they are looking for a turn/junction. So the blue toll signs are being repalced with purple to they standout.

https://www.eflow.ie/community/sponsorship/new-sign-for-m50-toll/index.xml

Now understand way they are doing this, but I thought regulations stated that motorway signs HAD to be blue, and could a big purple sign be distracting for those not used to, or expecting it.

shietpilot

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Now understand way they are doing this, but I thought regulations stated that motorway signs HAD to be blue, and could a big purple sign be distracting for those not used to, or expecting it.

I thought signs were supposed to be distracting to gain drivers' attention.

tossy

I think the statute books state purple signs are ok if they are used to make a shed load of free money for the government.

grogi

Mint Sauce wrote: »

/.../ I thought regulations stated that motorway signs HAD to be blue /.../

Even the speed limits?

Markcheese

tossy wrote:

I think the statute books state purple signs are ok if they are used to make a shed load of free money for the government.

Do they though... it'll take till 3016 to pay off that bridge... because most of the money paid goes to pay for the toll system not the bridge..

Mint Sauce

grogi wrote: »

Even the speed limits?

Okay, maybe not the speed limits.

mfceiling

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Basically drivers filter out the blue motorway signs unless they are looking for a turn/junction. So the blue toll signs are being repalced with purple to they standout.

https://www.eflow.ie/community/sponsorship/new-sign-for-m50-toll/index.xml

Now understand way they are doing this, but I thought regulations stated that motorway signs HAD to be blue, and could a big purple sign be distracting for those not used to, or expecting it.

Won't matter what colour any signs are cause as far as I can see the m50 is a free for all.

Want to cruise in the middle lane at 60kmh, go ahead.
Want to take off at the next junction? Don't bother merging into the lane nice and early. Much easier to cut across 3 lanes of traffic when you are 20 metres from the exit you want to take.

tossy

Markcheese wrote: »

Do they though... it'll take till 3016 to pay off that bridge... because most of the money paid goes to pay for the toll system not the bridge..

That bridge is well paid for, it only cost 58 million to build by the late 2000s they were taking in 46 million a year from it, by the year 2020 tolls will have earned that company €1,155,786,122 :eek: They bought it out for 600 million, more short sighted fine Irish politicians

D0NNELLY

Wouldn't have thought the M50 is a motorway.. very low speed limits if it is..

shietpilot

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Wouldn't have thought the M50 is a motorway.. very low speed limits if it is..

If only traffic moved at the speed limit on the M50!

markpb

Markcheese wrote:

Do they though... it'll take till 3016 to pay off that bridge... because most of the money paid goes to pay for the toll system not the bridge..

Presumably you can back that anecdote up somehow?

Arcade_Tryer

The toll signs on the M50 are a disgrace if you're not already aware of how the system works.

ironclaw

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The toll signs on the M50 are a disgrace if you're not already aware of how the system works.

If one can't read that, then please stay off the road. That lack of ability to read or comprehend while driving is astounding. It always makes me wonder that people that can't understand that have a job or generally function in society.

Arcade_Tryer

ironclaw wrote: »

If one can't read that, then please stay off the road. That lack of ability to read or comprehend while driving is astounding. It always makes me wonder that people that can't understand that have a job or generally function in society.

Now I look stupid.

Not sure if that sign was there when I last drove on the M50. Or maybe I was going too fast!

However, if you're not aware of how the system works, that sign could still be confusing. It would make far more sense if it said "Toll Can Be Paid Online Only" or something for people not in the know.

mikeecho

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Now I look stupid.

Not sure if that sign was there when I last drove on the M50. Or maybe I was going too fast!

However, if you're not aware of how the system works, that sign could still be confusing. It would make far more sense if it said "Toll Can Be Paid Online Only" or something for people not in the know.

Or phone the number

DopeTech

mikeecho wrote: »

Or phone the number

Or any payzone agent.

Speedwell

Yeah, I'm a recently licensed N driver from a rural county. I'm going to memorise a phone number and website and deadline while driving on a motorway I was only approved to be on a month ago, to an appointment I'm afraid I'll be late to, on a road I've never been on before, in rain more than likely, at speeds I never normally travel, in traffic I am not used to. Or, even worse, I'll be trying to write it down or snap a picture with my phone. But... but... but, there was a SIGN, you sputter.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

gordongekko

Speedwell wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a recently licensed N driver from a rural county. I'm going to memorise a phone number and website and deadline while driving on a motorway I was only approved to be on a month ago, to an appointment I'm afraid I'll be late to, on a road I've never been on before, in rain more than likely, at speeds I never normally travel, in traffic I am not used to. Or, even worse, I'll be trying to write it down or snap a picture with my phone. But... but... but, there was a SIGN, you sputter.

if there was only a thing called google that you could search for the information once youve stopped driving or have a conversation with someone about it at your appointment who might be able to give you the additional information.

minikin

Whilst they're increasing the visibility of the sign for some (oh look... a sign...) they are actually reducing it's legibility:

Colour contrast is reduced (lower light reflectance value with white text on purple rather than existing signs)

Did they even consider colour blindness issues?
The purple will be perceived differently by those with Deuteranopia, Protanopia and Tritanopia. (seriously reducing the colour contrast, therefore legibility)

smaller phone number, smaller web address, payzone branding is demoted ... form over function, looks like they're increasing M50 TOLL to act as keywords for google searches to drive all payment online.

The arrows are pointless, so to speak, could be confused with directional signage.

Call me a cynic but could this be a commercial branding exercise for future differentiation of the M50 toll from M1 and others????
Related to what's happening with the tags?

Whois search results of "m50toll.ie" show it was registered by Easytrip on 29th June 2016

domain: m50toll.ie
descr: Easytrip Services Ireland Ltd
descr: Body Corporate (Ltd,PLC,Company)
descr: Discretionary Name
admin-c: AWU925-IEDR
tech-c: HH36-IEDR
registration: 29-June-2016
renewal: 29-June-2017
holder-type: Billable
locked: NO
ren-status: Active
in-zone: 1
nserver: ns0.reg365.net
nserver: ns1.reg365.net
nserver: ns2.reg365.net
source: IEDR

person: Ollie Doherty
nic-hdl: AWU925-IEDR
source: IEDR

person: NamesCo Hostmaster
nic-hdl: HH36-IEDR
source: IEDR

Speedwell

gordongekko wrote: »

if there was only a thing called google that you could search for the information once youve stopped driving or have a conversation with someone about it at your appointment who might be able to give you the additional information.

Yeah, smartass, because everyone has a smartphone implant with free unlimited data, or because the doctor has time to converse with me about the M50. Pull the other one. Maybe the M50 toll is the high point of your day, but some of us have lives to lead.

wilser

Does anyone know what the signs are for on the exit for Tallaght and Citywest on the M50 are,
the Citywest exit has a little black triangle with a yellow square background and the Tallaght exit has a yellow square with a black square background?

DopeTech

wilser wrote: »

Does anyone know what the signs are for on the exit for Tallaght and Citywest on the M50 are,
the Citywest exit has a little black triangle with a yellow square background and the Tallaght exit has a yellow square with a black square background?

They have popped up around Liffey valley also. Meant to ask.

dudara

I asked the same recently, apparently they are something to do with detour routes. However, I'm not 100% clear yet on how they actually work. Can anyone explain?

El Horseboxo

Speedwell wrote: »

Yeah, smartass, because everyone has a smartphone implant with free unlimited data, or because the doctor has time to converse with me about the M50. Pull the other one. Maybe the M50 toll is the high point of your day, but some of us have lives to lead.

Well if you've time to write nonsense like the above on your old Nokia 3210 I imagine you can find 30 seconds to type "how to pay m50 toll" into Google.

Speedwell

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Well if you've time to write nonsense like the above on your old Nokia 3210 I imagine you can find 30 seconds to type "how to pay m50 toll" into Google.

On my what? I work from home on a computer. Remember those? Did they start handing out smartphones in cereal boxes? Did I miss the announcement that said owning one was mandatory? Or are you just an overprivileged, scornful little hipster who thinks that as soon as they learn a fact, it joins the great gestalt of knowledge?

quadrifoglio verde

dudara wrote: »

I asked the same recently, apparently they are something to do with detour routes. However, I'm not 100% clear yet on how they actually work. Can anyone explain?

Each diversion route has a symbol. So say there's an accident on the m50 between the n7 and the n4 junctions that means the road has to be closed. Overhead gantrys flash up, motorway closed ahead, please exit and follow signs with this symbol.
You go down the n7, come off at grange castle, onto Lucan and back onto the n4 just by following the symbol

quadrifoglio verde

Speedwell wrote: »

On my what? I work from home on a computer. Remember those? Did they start handing out smartphones in cereal boxes? Did I miss the announcement that said owning one was mandatory? Or are you just an overprivileged, scornful little hipster who thinks that as soon as they learn a fact, it joins the great gestalt of knowledge?

I take it it has the ability to google toll m50 yeah?

Speedwell

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I take it it has the ability to google toll m50 yeah?

Not while driving, it doesn't. I expected a toll plaza or other toll collection place and didn't see one, and it was not clear that one was not to be expected. Everywhere else I have driven (30 years in the US and other countries), if there was a toll, there was a place to pay it. If there was not a place to pay it, then you were not in a place where a toll was due. Maybe if you are from Dublin the M50 is intimately familiar to you, but it always seems to come as a shock to Dubliners that everyone isn't from their city... they're worse than New Yorkers.

R.O.R

Speedwell wrote: »

Not while driving, it doesn't. I expected a toll plaza or other toll collection place and didn't see one, and it was not clear that one was not to be expected. Everywhere else I have driven (30 years in the US and other countries), if there was a toll, there was a place to pay it. If there was not a place to pay it, then you were not in a place where a toll was due. Maybe if you are from Dublin the M50 is intimately familiar to you, but it always seems to come as a shock to Dubliners that everyone isn't from their city... they're worse than New Yorkers.

So, you didn't get to a computer before 20.00 the day after you'd passed through the toll?

Ever driven in London? No barriers to stop at and pay the congestion charge. Not sure if there are other cities in Europe with similar systems, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Might be worth writing a strongly worded e-mail to your local representative, asking for them to get the barrier's re-installed, so you aren't inconvenienced again if you ever have to travel to the capital.

quadrifoglio verde

There is a sign that says pay toll by 8pm tomorrow. There's another sign that says pay toll here. You can't miss these signs. And there's not only one of them, there's a good number of signs, at least three signs and one big massive one wrote in the road. You wouldnt even miss them at 200 km/hr

Now on less you to try and convince me that you had no access to the internet for 24 hours to query this toll....

Speedwell

R.O.R wrote: »

So, you didn't get to a computer before 20.00 the day after you'd passed through the toll?

Ever driven in London? No barriers to stop at and pay the congestion charge. Not sure if there are other cities in Europe with similar systems, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Might be worth writing a strongly worded e-mail to your local representative, asking for them to get the barrier's re-installed, so you aren't inconvenienced again if you ever have to travel to the capital.

Well, aren't you smart.

No, I've never driven in London. I have worked in jobs where I write training and instructional documentation, though, and I believe the purpose of signage is to communicate clearly, which this signage plainly does not do. One correct approach would be to require that people answer a question about this on their theory test for a new license. Another correct approach would be to use more frequent and clear roadside signage like that used for advertising. You can defend these signs all you like because you are a sensitive Dubliner, but it doesn't change the fact that they are confusing, impractical, and place the burden on the driver to perform research instead of just informing the driver in a way that makes sense.

D0NNELLY

Speedwell wrote: »

Yeah, smartass, because everyone has a smartphone implant with free unlimited data, or because the doctor has time to converse with me about the M50. Pull the other one. Maybe the M50 toll is the high point of your day, but some of us have lives to lead.

next time go straight at liffey valley.. this toll business isn't for you.

Speedwell

D0NNELLY wrote: »

next time go straight at liffey valley.. this toll business isn't for you.

You and your mother have a nice day, buddy.

Mint Sauce

Hi. OP again here. Gonna go with Speedwell here. In about 6 years of driving I have only had through the toll about half a dozen times, and unless you are familar with it, to take in, 'before 8pm, Payzone, a web address, and/or a number' is a lot of information, as well as looking for junction signs, and taking on the general free for all driving, there is alot to distract you.

On one ocassion, I was going through at about 1 or 2am, wasn't sure if the 8pm meant the next 8pm or the following one. Popped into the next 24hr to pay, as still had 2 hrs of driving, wanted to sleep amd didn't want to end up forgetting to pay. Their payzone was down and couldn't confirm either when payment was due.

In order to pay on line, I thought you had to set up an account, for all the times I use it, didn't think was worth while as its another password to remember. Have since been told this is not the case.

A tag is no use to me, as far as I am aware, most requires a deposit, and to maintain a minimal balance.

Going back to all the information on how to pay, people heading to the Airport, only place I am aware of a place to pay there is the Spar in arrivals. They have enough going on, without worrying on how to pay.

I have did learn though early that you can pay before making your journey, and this is my usual method, but have never seen this advertised, and wonder is this deliberate.

Del2005

Speedwell wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a recently licensed N driver from a rural county. I'm going to memorise a phone number and website and deadline while driving on a motorway I was only approved to be on a month ago, to an appointment I'm afraid I'll be late to, on a road I've never been on before, in rain more than likely, at speeds I never normally travel, in traffic I am not used to. Or, even worse, I'll be trying to write it down or snap a picture with my phone. But... but... but, there was a SIGN, you sputter.

Every road from a rural area approaching the M50 has the same or higher limit. I've traveled on the wrong side of the road with signs in a different language and still managed to understand them. If you can't drive in traffic on a motorway take the non motorway, and non tolled, alternative route.

You sound like my parents saying that the signs for exits are too close, repeatedly missing the massive signs at 1km and 500m from the junction.

shietpilot

You could put it on some people's windshields and they still wouldn't know to be fair.

D0NNELLY

Del2005 wrote: »

Every road from a rural area approaching the M50 has the same or higher limit. I've traveled on the wrong side of the road with signs in a different language and still managed to understand them. If you can't drive in traffic on a motorway take the non motorway, and non tolled, alternative route.

You sound like my parents saying that the signs for exits are too close, repeatedly missing the massive signs at 1km and 500m from the junction.

thats a problem with society, we have to go as slow as our slowest members..

from 3:00 min on..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4

zilog_jones

Speedwell wrote: »

Everywhere else I have driven (30 years in the US and other countries), if there was a toll, there was a place to pay it. If there was not a place to pay it, then you were not in a place where a toll was due.

Well you'll be in for a shock if you go back to the US. Open road tolling like the M50 is becoming much more commonplace - even the Golden Gate Bridge no longer has toll booths but is still a toll bridge. This technology has been around for 30 years in some countries.

The problem for me is always remembering to pay afterwards. But thanks to this thread, I've set a reminder on my phone for my next M50 trip

markpb

Mint Sauce wrote: »

In order to pay on line, I thought you had to set up an account, for all the times I use it, didn't think was worth while as its another password to remember. Have since been told this is not the case.

The front page of the eFlow website has three buttons so big that they take up one third of the screen. The third button is called Pay a Toll. You then enter your reg and number of trips and are presented with two bright, yellow buttons: 'I Want Cheaper Tolls' and 'Continue Paying as Unregistered'. The second one is the one you need to click. I appreciate it's not as clear as it could be (they're obviously worded that way because they want you to register) but it's not rocket science either.

Mint Sauce

markpb wrote: »

The front page of the eFlow website has three buttons so big that they take up one third of the screen. The third button is called Pay a Toll. You then enter your reg and number of trips and are presented with two bright, yellow buttons: 'I Want Cheaper Tolls' and 'Continue Paying as Unregistered'. The second one is the one you need to click. I appreciate it's not as clear as it could be (they're obviously worded that way because they want you to register) but it's not rocket science either.

I possibly did look at the website before my first journey on it about 5 years ago, to see how I could pay/fees etc. Dont recall seeing that, possibly changed their layout since then though.

Things like that are good to know, and sometimes, as you put it your self, they dont make all the options very clear, the same as my experience of learning you can pay before your journey. Just noticed the new purple banner on their link, does not say before 8pm the next day. It is almost like they want to catch people out.

biko

Speedwell wrote: »

Or are you just an overprivileged, scornful little hipster who thinks that as soon as they learn a fact, it joins the great gestalt of knowledge?

Don't post in this thread again.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

The signs couldn't be clearer. I would just prefer if the time you had to pay was a little longer.

markpb

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Just noticed the new purple banner on their link, does not say before 8pm the next day. It is almost like they want to catch people out.

Maybe they want less text on the sign so people have less to take in?

Alfred Attractive Dress wrote: »

The signs couldn't be clearer. I would just prefer if the time you had to pay was a little longer.

You can extend it. It's €3.10 for people who read the sign quickly and €6.20 for people who want to wait until the letter arrives by post.

I'd imagine if you give people more time to pay, there's a better chance that they'll forget to pay at all. Limiting it to 2 days keeps the mind focused.

OldMrBrennan83

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D0NNELLY

Patww79 wrote: »

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maybe they're just not purple enough?

OldMrBrennan83

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D0NNELLY

Patww79 wrote: »

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apologies, i was taking the piss out of whoever originally thought the original massive signs needed to be purple before folks would notice them

Cabaal

Speedwell wrote: »

Not while driving, it doesn't. I expected a toll plaza or other toll collection place and didn't see one, and it was not clear that one was not to be expected. Everywhere else I have driven (30 years in the US and other countries), if there was a toll, there was a place to pay it. If there was not a place to pay it, then you were not in a place where a toll was due. Maybe if you are from Dublin the M50 is intimately familiar to you, but it always seems to come as a shock to Dubliners that everyone isn't from their city... they're worse than New Yorkers.

Take it you've not driven in Canada, Germany or one of the many country's that have barrier free tolling then?

I'm driving only 8 years and have encountered barrier free tolling in countless country's in that time. Toll boths are more of a pain then barrier free.

markpb

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The installation of the new signage will take place over five nights, from 10pm till 6am from Monday to Friday this week (18th to 22nd July) .... there will be no sign indicating the M50 Toll Southbound on Wednesday, 20th July. There will also be no signs heading both North and South on Thursday, 22nd July.

eFlow

It's up to you to decide what day Thursday 22nd July is

OldMrBrennan83

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