Designer responsibilties - Commencement Notice

Tyson Lannister

I drew up an agricultural shed for a local farmer and got planning permission for him.
He now wants me to submit the commencement notice for him.
I agreed to get Planning Permission for the shed and that's where my involvement ends. I will have nothing to do with the build.
Is it okay for me to put myself down as the designer or will that involve me in
the build of the structure?

Any advice appreciated.

BryanF

You got planning, assuming you did not promise construction, stay away..
Unfortunately the way things work/have gone in this day and age- you should not take on any responsibility/ liability relating to 'design' in terms of 'construction'

Tyson Lannister

Thanks for the reply.

He can't use a computer and cant upload the drawings etc.

Could I upload the drawings for him and could he accept the role as
owner and designer? He did design the shed, I just drew it up properly for him.

Thanks again.

Metric Tensor

To be honest once you did the drawings a court can place some level of responsibility on you anyway as under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (Construction) Regulations you are almost certainly a designer anyway - this is regardless of who does what with regards to commencement notices.

Have you got PI? Is this why you are worried?

Or is it a concern that it won't be build in accordance with the building regs / the drawings?

W0LFMAN

Create a contract that you are a "drafter" and not a designer. And you accept no responsibilities. Get it signed and keep a copy.

Metric Tensor

It might help Wolfman - maybe moreso in a statutory compliance aspect.

WRT Health and Safety I have no experience of this but I suspect you may have to prove to a court that you were merely drafting and I'm not sure a client's signature would be enough. This may particularly be the case if you are the more experienced construction professional of the two parties listed in which case you would have a duty of care to future operatives/users to point out any issues that you should reasonably see.

Which leads to a catch 22 - if you spot and mention a risk you become a designer. If you don't mention it you are failing in your duty towards the user.

Again, this is only my thoughts. I've no precedent or experience of same and many might disagree.

Tyson Lannister

Thanks very much guys for the replies.

I have stated on the drawings that the plans are for planning purposes only
and it is the builders responsibility to ensure structure conforms to s101 and s123 and is TAMS 2 building grant compliant.

Does this get me out of responsibility to any degree?

I do not have P.I. and do not want to be involved with the build that is why I was thinking maybe I could nominate the farmer as designer and owner?

Calahonda52

Walk, period, don't do anymore.

ps, if a farmer in receipt of mula from Brussels etc, who does his computer work...just a thought

sydthebeat

Simply explain to the client that the certifying professional has to submit the commencement notice AND THE ASSOCIATED building reg compliant DRAWINGS ( not the planning drawings) and that they have to confirm their design complies to building regulations.

If he decides to have no certifying professional then he also is choosing not to submit a commencement notice. They are mutually exclusive.

Tyson Lannister

The structure has to conform to Tams 2.

I drew the structure in compliance with the regs.

The drawings have been checked by the Dept. Of Ag. and passed as grant compliant. They will be out again to check the structure afterwards.

As far as I know there is no requirement for an overseeing engineer on these sheds??

His computer work is all done by Teagasc, he has no email address etc.

He wants to start as soon as possible but I'm stalling him now with this..

I don't want to delay him but I don't want to end up living in a cardboard box either if something goes wrong with the build..

I drew a few these years ago, but it was the old type commencement notice and I didn't expect this.

sydthebeat

The work is not subject to exemption from bcars, as far as I understand it, therefore a certifying professional is required.

Tyson Lannister

I'd be better to involve an engineer so I'm guessing and get him to proceed with this..

Metric Tensor

I disagree syd. No fire cert so therefore a short form notice.

P.S. Just realised that maybe that's not what you meant by exemption from BCARs?

Metric Tensor

OP. I just had a thought - some local authorities will still take the short form notice over the counter (with an extra charge).

If you "advise" your client to fill out the paper one and bring it by hand to the council then the farmer will not have to touch a computer. He may still need to provide an email address on the form though.

sydthebeat

Metric Tensor wrote: »

I disagree syd. No fire cert so therefore a short form notice.

P.S. Just realised that maybe that's not what you meant by exemption from BCARs?

thats a fair point, and i think you are correct.... BCARS is applicable to works that fall under part 3 of the building control regulations ... and single storey argi buildings are exempt.

my bad!

Sacrolyte

Could a mod please move this thread to farm and forestry where the op will get some real world experience answers and not some dooms day predictions.

Gumbo

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Could a mod please move this thread to farm and forestry where the op will get some real world experience answers and not some dooms day predictions.

What has the farming and forestry got to do with The Building Control Act?

The OP is correct to worry about putting his name down. If the LA request info and are not satisfied with the credentials of the designers submission they will report them to the ethics board of their relevant governing body (engineers Ireland, surveyors ireland, architects institute). It has been done before. And remember, when you register yourself as a designer on the BCMS system, you have to input what body you are a member of and your membership number.

Tyson Lannister

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats a fair point, and i think you are correct.... BCARS is applicable to works that fall under part 3 of the building control regulations ... and single storey argi buildings are exempt.

my bad!

Thanks again for the replies.
So what exactly does this mean? Are the exempt from building control and if so can I nominate the farmer as the designer?

Gumbo

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies.
So what exactly does this mean? Are the exempt from building control and if so can I nominate the farmer as the designer?

Not exempted per say, but you can lodge a short form of Commencement Notice and yes, you can nominate the land owner as the owner, designer and the builder. I think Syd is getting at the fact that it doesn't require a Fire Safety Cert and thus doesn't require an Assigned Certifier.