Low Cost Holidays collapse - what are my rights?

mahamageehad

So Low Cost Holidays today at 5pm announced that they are ceasing trading. We paid them roughly 1200 for flights and hotel in Tenerife. The flights are OK as we have the confirmation from Ryanair. We are supposed to be going in 6 weeks, will I get the money back from the hotel or will the hotel booking still even be valid? I can't afford to book another hotel unless I get that money back.

All advice on where I stand now appreciated. I thought under Irish law I wouldn't lose my money? Can I initiate a debit charge back or should I wait to get instruction from low cost? I only saw that they went bust on social media, the company themselves have not been in contact. We don't have travel insurance. I can't contact the bank as it's the weekend. I will call the hotel tomorrow. I only booked 7 days ago, I can't believe this.

Thanks in advance!

ScouseMouse

How did you pay?

spain33

I'm in the same position and so far it seems that if the hotel can still honour the booking then we have to pay them and claim back. I have emailed my hotel and am waiting to hear back.

flyingsnail

Not sure to what extent it covers hotels, extras ect but the Low cost travel group was licensed and bonded in Ireland (licence number 0730)

http://www.aviationreg.ie/news/lowcostbeds-trading-announcement.740.html

(15 Jul 2016)

The CAR is aware that Lowcosttravelgroup has ceased trading from today 15 July 2016. A notice was posted on the group website shortly before 5pm today and can be read here. The Commission is endeavouring to find out the extent to which this affects Irish customers of Lowcostholidays Spain.

Irish customers who booked with Lowcostholidays Spain should note that the company is licenced by and bonded with the Commission and that details of how to claim, and who should claim, against the bond will be posted early next week.

Last updated: Friday 15th July 16:40

EDIT: Also more info posted on their website
http://www.lowcosttravelgroup.com/

Evd-Burner

I'm in the same boat. Flights are secure however I rang the hotel and they confirmed that all bookings with LCH have been cancelled. My hotel are giving the previous customers of LCH 7 days where they will hold the room at the same cost.

So I'm gonna do that and then claim through my holiday insurance or my visa card.

jace_da_face

Hi Mahamageehad,

We are in similar situation. Our first step is to see if our flights are valid. How did you receive confirmation from Ryanair? We have received nothing from Ryanair but we do have a booking number for the carrier (6 letter reference received from LCH) and I am having difficulty in retrieving/ confirming it from Ryanair website. Their contact form and live chat keeps kicking me out.

Atlantic Dawn

If it was me this is the order of how I would try to get a refund in order of how long it will take and how much of a pain in the hole it will be, starting with the fastest...

• Get a chargeback done on the credit or debit card you used to pay
• Claim on your travel insurance
• Contact Commission for Aviation Regulation for refund

jace_da_face

Well I think my strategy is to firstly find out if the flight bookings are valid. And if so, contact the hotel to see if they can still accommodate the booking. We would of coarse be charged again for the hotel but I would hope to claim back a portion of the original package through insurance.

kbell

Statement issued.


http://www.lowcosttravelgroup.com/

webpal

I know someone who paid for a hotel by credit card with them but haven't taken out travel insurance yet. Will they get 100% back from credit card company? Would it be up to credit card company to recover the money for themselves then?

Murt1982

Same here. Flight looks ok on ryanair and aer lingus website. Will call hotel to confirm if we have the accommodation or not. Do you know how long it takes to claim the money back through bank as I paid it in full with debit card.
Really annoyed about this.

mahamageehad

Thanks for the advice so far all and sorry to hear so many are in the same boat. We paid by debit card and I was under the impression that a chargeback on a debit card is much more difficult and takes longer than on a credit card? I'm with Bank of Ireland. We have the flight confirmation number and if we visit the Ryanair site we can see that the flight is confirmed. We rang the hotel and they said they can't tell us anything until Monday. I knew that they were bonded in Ireland, I'm just not sure how that affects the situation. Is it guaranteed I'll get my money back for the hotel because I could borrow the money to pay the hotel if I was sure I'd get it back?

GerardKeating

mahamageehad wrote: »

Thanks for the advice so far all and sorry to hear so many are in the same boat. We paid by debit card and I was under the impression that a chargeback on a debit card is much more difficult and takes longer than on a credit card? I'm with Bank of Ireland. We have the flight confirmation number and if we visit the Ryanair site we can see that the flight is confirmed. We rang the hotel and they said they can't tell us anything until Monday. I knew that they were bonded in Ireland, I'm just not sure how that affects the situation. Is it guaranteed I'll get my money back for the hotel because I could borrow the money to pay the hotel if I was sure I'd get it back?

Not sure about Maestro/Mastercard, but Visa Credit and Debit cards have the exact same chargeback rights, certainly with AIB

Alrite Chief

Here is my predicament.

I am currently away on a low cost holiday package. Flights are fine as Ryanair fully paid up. It's the hotel that we are currently staying in that haven't been paid by LCH which is the problem. The have asked us to pay for the room again at the rate given to LCH.

Initially I thought ok fine I will claim back through either credit card, travel insurance, aviation reg or the liquidators claim process. Now I'm not so sure if I should.

As far as I'm concerned I paid the hotels business partner and presented a voucher on arrival that they accepted. Is it my fault their business practices involve such risk as to not getting paid for 30 days after customers check in? Should the not be the one contacting LCH liquidators to claim for payment? They just want to minimise loss by bluffing vulnerable holiday makers who they know have 4 methods of comeback.

If I wasn't already checked in and due to travel I would obviously pay. But I think my position is different here. They should honour the voucher I presented on arrival and save me the hassle of going through the process of claiming back.

What do other people think here? What are my rights? Surely this is between the hotels and LCH and customers shouldn't be caught in the crossfire.

jackinthemix94

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Here is my predicament.

I am currently away on a low cost holiday package. Flights are fine as Ryanair fully paid up. It's the hotel that we are currently staying in that haven't been paid by LCH which is the problem. The have asked us to pay for the room again at the rate given to LCH.

Initially I thought ok fine I will claim back through either credit card, travel insurance, aviation reg or the liquidators claim process. Now I'm not so sure if I should.

As far as I'm concerned I paid the hotels business partner and presented a voucher on arrival that they accepted. Is it my fault their business practices involve such risk as to not getting paid for 30 days after customers check in? Should the not be the one contacting LCH liquidators to claim for payment? They just want to minimise loss by bluffing vulnerable holiday makers who they know have 4 methods of comeback.

If I wasn't already checked in and due to travel I would obviously pay. But I think my position is different here. They should honour the voucher I presented on arrival and save me the hassle of going through the process of claiming back.

What do other people think here? What are my rights? Surely this is between the hotels and LCH and customers shouldn't be caught in the crossfire.

They'll probably boot you out if you don't pay so, it's up to you? I don't think arguing semantics with them will get you far. Why should they honour the voucher, and why should they go through the hassle either?

I'm not being rude, but they're a business, you're a customer that to them, hasn't paid. They have a right to be paid.

Alrite Chief

Yes to put it black and white that's exactly what I am. Have they the right to boot me though? I have a receipt to show I have paid. Have I no rights as a customer?

I have asked them to provide me with notification in writing they haven't been paid. I'm going to need that for evidence for a visa chargeback. That was yesterday morning so still waiting for that. My travel insurance was done through LCH also so I need to speak to the insurance company tomorrow morning to check if I'm still covered.

If I am 100% certain I will be refunded in one of the 4 methods I will end up paying them. Otherwise I'll look for another hotel for the remaining 4 nights.

jackinthemix94

Your contract is with LCH. They have gone out of business. The hotel has zero obligation toward you. You are entitled to your money back of course, via one of the 4 methods.

_Tombstone_

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/thousands-of-irish-tourists-hit-by-lowcostholidays-collapse-1.2725069

andrew1977

Can anyone help me to confirm if a permanent tsb visa debit can safeguard me with the charge back?
I paid low cost holidays 1016 by visa debit on Friday lunchtime for a hotel stay in November.
I spoke to the online banking staff and they were not committing to assure me I would be OK for the chargeback.They told me to send in all my documents, and they couldn't stop the pending transaction on my account.
Thank you for any help you can give me

4ensic15

Alrite Chief wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned I paid the hotels business partner and presented a voucher on arrival that they accepted. .

That is your analysis. On the other hand the hotel say that accepted a voucher issued by your agent which represented to them that they would be paid. The voucher is now worthless. What passed between you and your agent is not their business. I don't know what jurisdiction you are in but it is not wise to do a runner in some countries. You might find yourself banged up in jail.

You have chargeback and travel bonding to fall back on so just be glad it is not something worse.

jackinthemix94

andrew1977 wrote: »

Can anyone help me to confirm if a permanent tsb visa debit can safeguard me with the charge back?
I paid low cost holidays 1016 by visa debit on Friday lunchtime for a hotel stay in November.
I spoke to the online banking staff and they were not committing to assure me I would be OK for the chargeback.They told me to send in all my documents, and they couldn't stop the pending transaction on my account.
Thank you for any help you can give me

I think you made this post somewhere else on the forum too?

When the money disappears from your account, its held by the bank until the vendor actually takes the money when they have finished processing the transaction. What would be interesting to see is if they actually do take the money, given they went out of business the same day.

andrew1977

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

I think you made this post somewhere else on the forum too?

When the money disappears from your account, its held by the bank until the vendor actually takes the money when they have finished processing the transaction. What would be interesting to see is if they actually do take the money, given they went out of business the same day.

Thanks for the reply, yes have posted also on another thread. Worried sick and exploring all avenues for help and advice, I spoke to my bank 3 times yesterday and got a mix of answers each time, but nothing concrete. Let's see how it all pans out , visit debit charge back my only hope.

Alrite Chief

4ensic15 wrote: »

Alrite Chief wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned I paid the hotels business partner and presented a voucher on arrival that they accepted. .

That is your analysis. On the other hand the hotel say that accepted a voucher issued by your agent which represented to them that they would be paid. The voucher is now worthless. What passed between you and your agent is not their business. I don't know what jurisdiction you are in but it is not wise to do a runner in some countries. You might find yourself banged up in jail.

You have chargeback and travel bonding to fall back on so just be glad it is not something worse.

Portugal. Thought about police crossed my mind but I figured considering the circumstances it's a civil matter and not something the police should be bothered with. It's on my mind things might be seen differently here however

4ensic15

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Portugal. Thought about police crossed my mind but I figured considering the circumstances it's a civil matter and not something the police should be bothered with. It's on my mind things might be seen differently here however

Even in Ireland, availing of services without paying for them is criminal. I know nothing about the Portuguese legal system, but I do know some neighbours who were in a restaurant and decided the service was below par and argued the toss when paying the bill. The police were called, came straight away and the neighbours were all taken into custody.

buggy beag

Forms now up on the CAR website for claiming back money.

Alrite Chief

4ensic15 wrote: »

Even in Ireland, availing of services without paying for them is criminal. I know nothing about the Portuguese legal system, but I do know some neighbours who were in a restaurant and decided the service was below par and argued the toss when paying the bill. The police were called, came straight away and the neighbours were all taken into custody.

That without a shadow of doubt is a criminal matter. In this case however I have proof of purchase. Their arrangement with the people responsible for paying them has fallen through.

Would hotel chains not have their own bond/insurance to protect them against these things happening?

I can completely see things from both angles but cannot help feeling like I should not be held responsible for a hotels risky business practice. It should be a matter between them and LCH liquidators now and not me. I paid a company they authorised to make bookings on their behalf.

Anyway, I've heard nothing from them about it since Friday night. Another LCH customer checked out yesterday and were not asked to settle up on departure. I still haven't received the letter I requested from reception stating in writing they haven't been paid by LCH which I will need for a chargeback either.

jackinthemix94

Alrite Chief wrote: »

That without a shadow of doubt is a criminal matter. In this case however I have proof of purchase. Their arrangement with the people responsible for paying them has fallen through.

Would hotel chains not have their own bond/insurance to protect them against these things happening?

I can completely see things from both angles but cannot help feeling like I should not be held responsible for a hotels risky business practice. It should be a matter between them and LCH liquidators now and not me. I paid a company they authorised to make bookings on their behalf.

Anyway, I've heard nothing from them about it since Friday night. Another LCH customer checked out yesterday and were not asked to settle up on departure. I still haven't received the letter I requested from reception stating in writing they haven't been paid by LCH which I will need for a chargeback either.

You are missing the point, legally, the contract is between you and LCH, not you and the hotel. The hotel are effectively a third party providing services on behalf of LCH. They aren't responsible for you with any contractual problems that occur between you and LCH. That's the law. It's irrelevant if you think it's right or wrong. MAYBE the hotel will let you check out without paying because they are sympathetic to your position, but legally they are within their rights to get payment from you.

coylemj

4ensic15 wrote: »

Even in Ireland, availing of services without paying for them is criminal.

There has to be deception involved for it to constitute a crime, such as you go into a restaurant, order and consume a meal and then declare that you have no money to pay for it.

7.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception obtains services from another is guilty of an offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/7/enacted/en/html#sec7

As with you, I have no idea about the law in Portugal but if the poster simply decided to up sticks there and then and leave the hotel, I can't how he could be committing any criminal offence in any European country. If he says he has no money because he blew his budget on the holiday and LCH took his money so he's off to stay in a local hostel until his flight home, what can they do?

4ensic15 wrote: »

.... I do know some neighbours who were in a restaurant and decided the service was below par and argued the toss when paying the bill. The police were called, came straight away and the neighbours were all taken into custody.

As with most secondhand tales, I suspect you were not told the full story. Did they offer to pay anything? You said the service was poor - did they offer to pay the restaurant some amount of money for the food they had consumed?

4ensic15

coylemj wrote: »

There has to be deception involved for it to constitute a crime, such as you go into a restaurant, order and consume a meal and then declare that you have no money to pay for it.

7.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception obtains services from another is guilty of an offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/7/enacted/en/html#sec7

As with you, I have no idea about the law in Portugal but if the poster simply decided to up sticks there and then and leave the hotel, I can't how he could be committing any criminal offence in any European country. If he says he has no money because he blew his budget on the holiday and LCH took his money so he's off to stay in a local hostel until his flight home, what can they do?

Telling lies about whether he can pay or not would be an offence in ireland. What they can do is have the o/p arrested and charged. They might let him out in a week or two or maybe a month or two. maybe his hands might reach his pockets if that was to happen.
Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001
8.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot is guilty of an offence.

coylemj wrote: »

As with most secondhand tales, I suspect you were not told the full story. Did they offer to pay anything? You said the service was poor - did they offer to pay the restaurant some amount of money for the food they had consumed?

Like any story, I am sure I didn't get the full details. However, the local police do not take kindly to tourists being slow to pay in continental holiday resorts.

Alrite Chief

I wouldn't expect any sympathy. I don't think that scenario even exists. I suspect either they have received confirmation they have come back with a bond/insurance OR realised some accounts had been settled after an initial panic.

Anyway, Iv had it confirmed from CAR this afternoon that I will be 100% refunded so I will pay if/when asked formally with written confirmation of their position.

The travel insurance company LCH used have gone to ground now which has become my biggest problem now.

coylemj

4ensic15 wrote: »

Telling lies about whether he can pay or not would be an offence in ireland. What they can do is have the o/p arrested and charged. They might let him out in a week or two or maybe a month or two. maybe his hands might reach his pockets if that was to happen.
Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001
8.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot is guilty of an offence.

That S.8 replaced the old offence of obtaining credit by fraud, covered by S.13 of the Debtors Ireland Act 1872. Payment on the spot is not always expected from a guest in a hotel, especially when you have already paid a third party so that section does not apply. Unlike getting a meal under false pretences (you can't pay) in a restaurant, a hotel will typically vet you when you check in, either you have already paid (which these people feel is the case) or you present a credit card which passes muster when they swipe it.

The key word in S.8 as you quoted it is 'dishonest', something the people in hotels booked via LCH cannot be accused of - they paid a holiday company for the hotel in advance so can hardly be accused of dishonesty if they show up and expect to get the room for the period they paid for.

4ensic15

coylemj wrote: »

That S.8 replaced the old offence of obtaining credit by fraud, covered by S.13 of the Debtors Ireland Act 1872. Payment on the spot is not always expected from a guest in a hotel, especially when you have already paid a third party so that section does not apply. Unlike getting a meal under false pretences (you can't pay) in a restaurant, a hotel will typically vet you when you check in, either you have already paid (which these people feel is the case) or you present a credit card which passes muster when they swipe it.

The key word in S.8 as you quoted it is 'dishonest', something the people in hotels booked via LCH cannot be accused of - they paid a holiday company for the hotel in advance so can hardly be accused of dishonesty if they show up and expect to get the room for the period they paid for.

If they are asked to pay and deny that they can pay then they are being dishonest.

Alrite Chief

4ensic15 wrote: »

If they are asked to pay and deny that they can pay then they are being dishonest.

Getting a small bit silly now. If we are staying on topic here, in my case specifically, no dishonesty exists. I will be paying by credit card. I could do without the few months interest on over €1000 while I wait for the regulator to refund. I don't have that cash lying around to lend to a multi billion euro hotel chain. No court in Europe would convict me. I believe I would be well within my consumer rights to stand firm. I have had this from a solicitor. Like me however he says it's only stress you don't need when you're guaranteed a refund just pay if asked.

jackinthemix94

The "solicitor" is giving you very bad advice. The law is clear. But you're doing the right thing.

4ensic15

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

The "solicitor" is giving you very bad advice. The law is clear. But you're doing the right thing.

Is the solicitor Irish?

Alrite Chief

Well he has said go ahead and pay so not all that bad! I think his point was I have a valid argument which would not result in a conviction but given the full set of circumstances just go ahead pay and enjoy the rest of my holiday.

He is Irish yes.

4ensic15

Alrite Chief wrote: »

He is Irish yes.

What does he know about Portuguese law and police and judicial practice?

Alrite Chief

4ensic15 wrote: »

What does he know about Portuguese law and police and judicial practice?

I would have to ask him. I can if its important you find out. Maybe some of it is EU law I honestly don't know. He has advised pay it given the circumstances so that advice is pretty universal.

4ensic15

Alrite Chief wrote: »

I would have to ask him. I can if its important you find out. Maybe some of it is EU law I honestly don't know. He has advised pay it given the circumstances so that advice is pretty universal.

A solicitor gives legal advice about a jurisdiction of which he knows nothing? He gave you the only sensible advice he could which was to avoid getting himself sued if you ended up in a Portuguese jail.

Alrite Chief

4ensic15 wrote: »

A solicitor gives legal advice about a jurisdiction of which he knows nothing? He gave you the only sensible advice he could which was to avoid getting himself sued if you ended up in a Portuguese jail.

Are you broken or something? I replied saying I don't know what he knows.

uck51js9zml2yt

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Getting a small bit silly now. If we are staying on topic here, in my case specifically, no dishonesty exists. I will be paying by credit card. I could do without the few months interest on over €1000 while I wait for the regulator to refund. I don't have that cash lying around to lend to a multi billion euro hotel chain. No court in Europe would convict me. I believe I would be well within my consumer rights to stand firm. I have had this from a solicitor. Like me however he says it's only stress you don't need when you're guaranteed a refund just pay if asked.

I'd suggest you stand by your beliefs and let us know when you get back from your holiday what happened.
Prove all the legal minds on this forum wrong.!

From travelling to Portugal frequently over the last 14 years, I've seen the police in action and they don't suffer fools gladly, particularly tourist fools...but you can tell them ...I'm sure you're right;)

4ensic15

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Are you broken or something? I replied saying I don't know what he knows.

You quoted a solicitors advice as if that was some sort of validation of your actions.
You then said that you don't know if he is qualified to give any advice at all. . the only conclusion I can come to is that there is no solicitor.

Alrite Chief

Wynter Uneven Napkin wrote: »

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Getting a small bit silly now. If we are staying on topic here, in my case specifically, no dishonesty exists. I will be paying by credit card. I could do without the few months interest on over 1000 while I wait for the regulator to refund. I don't have that cash lying around to lend to a multi billion euro hotel chain. No court in Europe would convict me. I believe I would be well within my consumer rights to stand firm. I have had this from a solicitor. Like me however he says it's only stress you don't need when you're guaranteed a refund just pay if asked.

I'd suggest you stand by your beliefs and let us know when you get back from your holiday what happened.
Prove all the legal minds on this forum wrong.!

From travelling to Portugal frequently over the last 14 years, I've seen the police in action and they don't suffer fools gladly, particularly tourist fools...but you can tell them ...I'm sure you're right;)

Why would you suggest such a thing? I think the consensus here is I pay.

While we are giving out advice I suggest you try nicer places. I never notice the police on holidays. Especially "in action" haha.

uck51js9zml2yt

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Why would you suggest such a thing? I think the consensus here is I pay.

While we are giving out advice I suggest you try nicer places. I never notice the police on holidays. Especially "in action" haha.

You're so adamant that you're right that I thought you should put it to the test.;)

Alrite Chief

4ensic15 wrote: »

You quoted a solicitors advice as if that was some sort of validation of your actions.
You then said that you don't know if he is qualified to give any advice at all. . the only conclusion I can come to is that there is no solicitor.

What actions are they? I haven't made any actions. I asked for advice and expressed an opinion.

You asked me what he knew about Portuguese law and jurisdiction and I replied I didn't know. You invented me replying me say he doesn't know anything. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Either way he has given me the same advice as others here have.

You're definitely broken.

Alrite Chief

Wynter Uneven Napkin wrote: »

You're so adamant that you're right that I thought you should put it to the test.;)

Ah ok, you're just being a smart hole for no reason. Great contribution.

ger664

Alrite Chief.

If you pay onsite how will you get refunded ? If thats a chargeback from your card or via CAR then the only legal advice I would be seeking is theirs.

andrew1977

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

I think you made this post somewhere else on the forum too?

When the money disappears from your account, its held by the bank until the vendor actually takes the money when they have finished processing the transaction. What would be interesting to see is if they actually do take the money, given they went out of business the same day.

Money taken from my bank account this morning, so I have to start a chargeback.
Do I have any argument with the card company or bank that they released money to a bankrupt company? Fraudulent transaction? Thank you

Alrite Chief

ger664 wrote: »

Alrite Chief.

If you pay onsite how will you get refunded ? If thats a chargeback from your card or via CAR then the only legal advice I would be seeking is theirs.

I literally only had it confirmed from CAR yesterday I will be 100% covered for my expenses here that had previously paid for. Up to that their was a debate to be had as my bank said a chargeback is not guaranteed. I'm 90% sure it would have been but before I dropped €1000+ I explored all avenues for advice. I'm satisfied now.

andrew1977

https://www.permanenttsb.ie/media/permanenttsb/pdfdocuments/termsandconditions/Terms-Conditions-Visa-Credit-Card.pdf

I am reading the above from Permanent TSB and it looks like they have a lot of clauses built in excluding them from liability on paying back refunds/chargebacks to customers.
One thing that jumps out is that they will not refund any claim unless they have received it back from the vendor to the banks satisfaction.
Am I wrong ? I thought you were covered in Ireland with visa debit and credit.

buggy beag

Alrite Chief wrote:

I literally only had it confirmed from CAR yesterday I will be 100% covered for my expenses here that had previously paid for. Up to that their was a debate to be had as my bank said a chargeback is not guaranteed. I'm 90% sure it would have been but before I dropped €1000+ I explored all avenues for advice. I'm satisfied now.

How had you it confirmed without sending the paperwork in?