B & I Cup 16/17

Rigor Mortis

Pools announced for this

Pool 1
Jersey Reds
London Scottish
Ulster 'A'
Cardiff Blues Premiership Select

Pool 2
London Welsh
Doncaster Knights
Munster 'A'
Rotherham Titans

Pool 3
Cornish Pirates
London Irish
Ospreys Premiership Select
Connacht Eagles

Pool 4
Leinster 'A'
Scarlets Premiership Select
Nottingham Rugby
Richmond

Pool 5
Yorkshire Carnegie
Bedford Blues
Dragons Premiership Select
Ealing Trailfinders

The Lost Sheep

Great for Connacht to get London Irish. Having been to quite a few of these games the attendance can really vary. Having London Irish should certainly pull bigger crowd than usual.
Hopefully Munster continue to spread games around province.

Round 1 - October 14/15/16
Pool 1: Ulster 'A' v Jersey Reds, Cardiff Blues Premiership Select v London Scottish
Pool 2: Rotherham Titans v Doncaster Knights, Munster 'A' v London Welsh
Pool 3: Connacht Eagles v Cornish Pirates, Ospreys Premiership Select v London Irish
Pool 4: Nottingham Rugby v Scarlets Premiership Select, Richmond v Leinster 'A'
Pool 5: Bedford Blues v Dragons Premiership Select, Ealing Trailfinders v Yorkshire Carnegie

Round 2 - October 21/22/23
Pool 1: Jersey Reds v Cardiff Blues Premiership Select, London Scottish v Ulster 'A'
Pool 2: Doncaster Knights v Munster 'A', London Welsh v Rotherham Titans
Pool 3: Cornish Pirates v Ospreys Premiership Select, London Irish v Connacht Eagles
Pool 4: Scarlets Premiership Select v Richmond, Leinster 'A' v Nottingham Rugby
Pool 5: Dragons Premiership Select v Ealing Trailfinders, Yorkshire Carnegie v Bedford Blues

Round 3 - December 9/10/11
Pool 1: London Scottish v Jersey Reds, Ulster 'A' v Cardiff Blues Premiership Select
Pool 2: London Welsh v Doncaster Knights, Rotherham Titans v Munster 'A'
Pool 3: London Irish v Cornish Pirates, Connacht Eagles v Ospreys Premiership Select
Pool 4: Nottingham Rugby v Richmond, Leinster 'A' v Scarlets Premiership Select
Pool 5: Yorkshire Carnegie v Dragons Premiership Select, Bedford Blues v Ealing Trailfinders

Round 4 - December 16/17/18
Pool 1: Jersey Reds v London Scottish, Cardiff Blues Premiership Select vUlster 'A'
Pool 2: Doncaster Knights v London Welsh, Munster A v Rotherham Titans
Pool 3: Cornish Pirates v London Irish, Ospreys Premiership Select v Connacht Eagles
Pool 4: Scarlets Premiership Select v Leinster 'A', Richmond v Nottingham Rugby
Pool 5: Dragons Premiership Select v Yorkshire Carnegie, Ealing Trailfinders v Bedford Blues

Round 5 - January 13/14/15
Pool 1: Ulster 'A' v London Scottish, Cardiff Blues Premiership Select v Jersey Reds
Pool 2: Rotherham Titans v London Welsh, Munster A v Doncaster Knights
Pool 3: Connacht Eagles v London Irish, Ospreys Premiership Select v Cornish Pirates
Pool 4: Nottingham Rugby v Leinster 'A', Richmond v Scarlets Premiership Select
Pool 5: Bedford Blues v Yorkshire Carnegie, Ealing Trailfinders v Dragons Premiership Select

Round 6 - January 20/21/22
Pool 1: Jersey Reds v Ulster 'A', London Scottish v Cardiff Blues Premiership Select
Pool 2: Doncaster Knights v Rotherham Titans, London Welsh v Munster A
Pool 3: Cornish Pirates v Connacht Eagles, London Irish v Ospreys Premiership Select
Pool 4: Scarlets Premiership Select v Nottingham Rugby, Leinster 'A' v Richmond
Pool 5: Dragons Premiership Select v Bedford Blues, Yorkshire Carnegie v Ealing Trailfinders

Quarter-finals: March 10/11/12
Semi-finals: March 31/April 1/April 2
Final: April 22

phog

Is it 22 or 23 man squads nowadays for the B&I Cup?

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

Is it 22 or 23 man squads nowadays for the B&I Cup?

Has it not always been 22 so unless you have seen it announced that its changed we can assume its still 22

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Has it not always been 22 so unless you have seen it announced that its changed we can assume its still 22

That's why I asked, it has been 22 man squads but thought they might have finally changed it to 23.

The B&I Cup hasn't a dedicated website so finding info on it is a but more bothersome than the other tournaments.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

That's why I asked, it has been 22 man squads but thought they might have finally changed it to 23.

The B&I Cup hasn't a dedicated website so finding info on it is a but more bothersome than the other tournaments.

Have you ever asked any of the unions or clubs involved on twitter etc?

It isn't that much of an issue anyway. Would be great if some more welsh sides and the irish sides could compete against English more in this like before. The last two years have been completely dominated by championship sides. Think Leinster were only non championship side in quarters last season

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Have you ever asked any of the unions or clubs involved on twitter etc?

Chill, this is a discussion forum, I asked here in the hope someone might know.

Jaysus, you'd almost put people off using this forum.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

Chill, this is a discussion forum, I asked here in the hope someone might know.

Jaysus, you'd almost put people off using this forum.

:rolleyes:

You asked a simple question and I answered where you are more likely to find the answer.
As you have said before information can be very difficult to find on the British and Irish Cup so the logical place is to ask the provinces/IRFU as they will have the info.

Hopefully welsh sides can improve and the scots return as it would be so much better with a bigger spread of teams

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You asked a simple question and I answered where you are more likely to find the answer.

Not really but your reply it's true to your form.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

Not really but your reply it's true to your form.

Ah here.
Again. The unions and the provinces or the championship sides are much better places to look for answers than simply asking here considering there has been complaints about lack of info on this competition posted in threads on the forum here plenty of times before this.

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ah here.
Again. The unions and the provinces or the championship sides are much better places to look for answers than simply asking here considering there has been complaints about lack of info on this competition posted in threads on the forum here plenty of times before this.

They may not answer (straight away) due to the deluge of questions they get daily. You'd get a quicker answer on here.

phog

Ive asked IR and MR via Twitter, if I get a reply I'll post here.

The Lost Sheep

Munster A have confirmed venues for their pool games.

Munster open their campaign on home soil, welcoming London Welsh to Midleton RFC on Saturday October 15th at 2.30pm. The following Saturday, October 22nd, also at 2.30pm, Munster A pay a visit to Doncaster Knights

December's back-to-back fixtures see Munster travel to Rotherham Titans on Saturday the 12th at 2pm before the return fixture in Ennis RFC on Sunday December 18th, also at 2pm.

Munster A's home encounter with Doncaster Knights on January 13th at 7pm is in Bandon RFC with the group stage concluding away to London Welsh on Saturday January 21st at 2pm.

The Lost Sheep

Leinster listed as playing Ulster in Donnybrook at the weekend as prep for the first round of games the weekend after.

The Lost Sheep

Next weekends fixtures

Pool 1: Ulster 'A' v Jersey Reds in Shaws Bridge (Instonians RFC) Friday 7pm
Pool 2: Munster 'A' v London Welsh in Midleton RFC. Saturday 2.30pm
Pool 3: Connacht Eagles v Cornish Pirates. Saturday 2.30pm
Pool 4: Richmond v Leinster 'A'. Saturday 3pm

phog

phog wrote: »

Is it 22 or 23 man squads nowadays for the B&I Cup?

To answer my own question - it's still a 22 man squad

thomond2006 wrote: »

They may not answer (straight away) due to the deluge of questions they get daily. You'd get a quicker answer on here.

I asked Munster Rugby on twitter at least twice and possibly 3 times since my op on this and still haven't received a reply.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

To answer my own question - it's still a 22 man squad

That may simply be due to it being amateur rugby and some of the sides always play 22 man or 20 man squads for match day.


Leinster team
Adam Byrne, Hugo Keenan, Jimmy O'Brien, Tom Daly, Barry Daly, Ross Byrne, Nick McCarthy, Peter Dooley, Bryan Byrne, Jeremy Loughman, Hayden Triggs, James Ryan, Peadar Timmins, Sean O'Brien, Jack Conan

Replacements: Sean McNulty, Oisin Heffernan, Max Deegan, Will Connors, Charlie Rock, Jack Power, Jordan Larmour

Munster A: Colm Hogan; Andrew Conway, David Johnston, Cian Bohane - capt., Alex Wootton; Steve Crosbie, Tomás O'Leary; Peter McCabe, Vincent O'Brien, Rory Burke; John Madigan. Darren O'Shea; Sean O'Connor, John Foley, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Liam O'Connor, Peter Kelleher, Niall Mulcahy, Fineen Wycherley, Abrie Griesel, Calvin Nash, Steven McMahon.

phog

Munster Team



Three Red Kings ‏@threeredkings 12m12 minutes ago
Madigan, Coombes, Foley, Wycherley, Nash,McMahon all worth a watch if you're in Midleton

RobbieRuns

Very strong Leinster team, that pack should be all over them. Munster not as strong but still good

brockboy02

Leinster 'A'

15. Adam Byrne
14. Hugo Keenan
13. Jack Kelly
12. Jimmy O'Brien
11. Barry Daly
10. Ross Byrne
9. Nick McCarthy
1. Peter Dooley
2. Bryan Byrne
3. Jeremy Loughman
4. Hayden Triggs
5. James Ryan
6. Peadar Timmins CAPTAIN
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jack Conan

Replacements

16. Sean McNulty
17. Oisin Heffernan
18. David O'Connor
19. Max Deegan
20. Will Connors
21. Charlie Rock
22. Jordan Larmour

A team changes for Leinster.

irishbucsfan

Is O'Brien better at 12 or 13?

brockboy02

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is O'Brien better at 12 or 13?

new to 13 really, only started playing it this season. So i'd say he is a better 12.

Played 10/12 in school.

brockboy02

Connacht A

15 Danie Poolman
14 Rory Parata
13 Stacey Ili
12 Eoin Griffin (captain)
11 Ed O’Keeffe
10 Mitch Lam
9 Stephen Kerins
1 Jason East
2 Jack Dinneen
3 Saba Meunargia
4 James Cannon
5 Danny Qualter
6 Marc Kelly
7 James Connolly
8 Stephen McVeigh

REPLACEMENTS
16 Pat O’Toole
17 Cronan Gleeson
18 Sean Masterson
19 Josh Pim
20 Conor McKeon
21 Luke Carty
22 Jordan Conroy

Winters

Bloody nepotism..:D

The Lost Sheep

Interesting to see Cronan Gleeson on bench for Connacht. Back playing AIL in Nenagh this season but has spent some seasons playing in England and Australia. Has played some Aviva A games while playing Nat1 in England

Tarf1234

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is O'Brien better at 12 or 13?

Definitely 12, he's a very classy baller.

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Definitely 12, he's a very classy baller.

Both O'Brien centres are ex outhalves..

like them both, but rate Conor higher at the moment.

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Definitely 12, he's a very classy baller.

Both O'Brien centres are ex outhalves..

like them both, but rate Conor higher.

Agreed, Conor is the more impressive athlete and is a lot bigger.

Interesting to see both Hogan and Jack Kelly playing a's this week. Judging by what they appear to be doing in AIL both well deserved. (I was actually a bit worried our 20s might have to play against Kelly on Sunday)

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Agreed, Conor is the more impressive athlete and is a lot bigger.

Interesting to see both Hogan and Jack Kelly playing a's this week. Judging by what they appear to be doing in AIL both well deserved. (I was actually a bit worried our 20s might have to play against Kelly on Sunday)

How has Jack Power gone for Tarf so far?

Winters

So when is Mitch Lam Ireland qualified?...

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Agreed, Conor is the more impressive athlete and is a lot bigger.

Interesting to see both Hogan and Jack Kelly playing a's this week. Judging by what they appear to be doing in AIL both well deserved. (I was actually a bit worried our 20s might have to play against Kelly on Sunday)

How has Jack Power gone for Tarf so far?

Only played 2 games. Subbed against Marys and came on for the second half looked ok but had only trained once so to be expected. Didn't travel down to our game in young munster but apparently he was good. Missed last week because of the A game unfortunately. I'd be very confident he will go very well this year.

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Only played 2 games. Subbed against Marys and came on for the second half looked ok but had only trained once so to be expected. Didn't travel down to our game in young munster but apparently he was good. Missed last week because of the A game unfortunately. I'd be very confident he will go very well this year.

he has a lot of natural talent, question is size/athleticism at the pro level.

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

he has a lot of natural talent, question is size/athleticism at the pro level.

I suppose that's always been the question over him. He certainly doesn't look too small for AIL this year and he is still young. I don't think in the modern game you could have a pro backline with him, Joey and Jimmy in it. So One of Jimmy and JP will probably suffer at the advancement of the other.

FACECUTTR

Winters wrote: »

So when is Mitch Lam Ireland qualified?...

Good question. Not sure when he arrived or when he started playing rugby here. By all accounts he is a big unit for a 10.

connemara man

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Good question. Not sure when he arrived or when he started playing rugby here. By all accounts he is a big unit for a 10.

He's bigger than most of the Connacht starting back line tomorrow. He's a tank

The Lost Sheep

Winters wrote: »

So when is Mitch Lam Ireland qualified?...

He arrived here since start of this season......

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Good question. Not sure when he arrived or when he started playing rugby here. By all accounts he is a big unit for a 10.

Big guy for a 10. Very impressive when saw him play recently...

FACECUTTR

Big guy for a 10. Very impressive when saw him play recently...[/quote]

Is he in the Academy full time now ? How would it work out if he overtakes O'Leary and Carthy would he take a NIQ spot ?

The Lost Sheep

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Is he in the Academy full time now? How would it work out if he overtakes O'Leary and Carthy would he take a NIQ spot?

No he isn't in the academy and he would be taking an NIQ if he was added.
He is playing with Wegians and will probably play more with As.

GavMan

Hard to see how Leinster got anything out of their game this weekend other than SOB getting 40 mins...

Rigor Mortis

GavMan wrote: »

Hard to see how Leinster got anything out of their game this weekend other than SOB getting 40 mins...

5 points. They aren't friendly games. You beat whoever is in front of you to get through to the tougher games.

molloyjh

GavMan wrote: »

Hard to see how Leinster got anything out of their game this weekend other than SOB getting 40 mins...

A 5 pointer in a cup competition? Game time for a number of Academy guys and upcoming prospects? Sure it wasn't much of a challenge but neither was Wasps-Zebre.

GavMan

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

5 points. They aren't friendly games. You beat whoever is in front of you to get through to the tougher games.

Obviously but primarily, this is a development competition for the provinces. Leinster couldn't have taken too much in that regard from beating the piss out of an effectively amateur Richmond side

molloyjh

GavMan wrote: »

Obviously but primarily, this is a development competition for the provinces. Leinster couldn't have taken too much in that regard from beating the piss out of an effectively amateur Richmond side

What are their other options?

RobbieRuns

GavMan wrote: »

Obviously but primarily, this is a development competition for the provinces. Leinster couldn't have taken too much in that regard from beating the piss out of an effectively amateur Richmond side

Did they not do the same last week to Ulster who were not an amateur side? Leinster A are a very good side. Look at the pack they had out.

irishbucsfan

Richmond have conceded 35 points per game in the Championship and havent got a point on the board in the table yet.

Cossy's Nottingham have not been going great either and they're up next, so could be a similar result this weekend. Scarlets' Select may end up being the toughest opposition in the pools or else may need to wait for the likes of London Irish or anothe province in the knockouts to really test Leinster A.

RobbieRuns

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Richmond have conceded 35 points per game in the Championship and havent got a point on the board in the table yet.

Cossy's Nottingham have not been going great either and they're up next, so could be a similar result this weekend. Scarlets' Select may end up being the toughest opposition in the pools or else may need to wait for the likes of London Irish or anothe province in the knockouts to really test Leinster A.

What other province will test them? The Connacht one that lost to Pirates, the Munster one that lost to Welsh or the Ulster one that they beat by 40 odd points last week?

the perfect ten

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Richmond have conceded 35 points per game in the Championship and havent got a point on the board in the table yet.

Cossy's Nottingham have not been going great either and they're up next, so could be a similar result this weekend. Scarlets' Select may end up being the toughest opposition in the pools or else may need to wait for the likes of London Irish or anothe province in the knockouts to really test Leinster A.

You also have to remember that for most Championship clubs the B & I Cup is very much of secondary importance. Having played seven straight weeks of Championship rugby many of the clubs will be resting and rotating players.

London Irish and London Welsh possibly are the two teams most likely to be taking it seriously.

Winters

The financial reward is probably not worth much.

iamjenko

Worth noting too that Richmond are an amateur club. Good article on them recently in the Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/sep/09/richmond-london-irish-championship-rugby

errlloyd

iamjenko wrote: »

Worth noting too that Richmond are an amateur club. Good article on them recently in the Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/sep/09/richmond-london-irish-championship-rugby

I'm pretty amazed one of them is a championship level player, a Canadian International and a Banker at Goldman Sachs all at the same time. Most bankers at Goldman don't have time to enjoy a decent length sh!t before bed.

The Lost Sheep

GavMan wrote: »

Obviously but primarily, this is a development competition for the provinces. Leinster couldn't have taken too much in that regard from beating the piss out of an effectively amateur Richmond side

It is development comp. Shame its come to that. When it started English sides fielded much stronger sides...

the perfect ten wrote: »

You also have to remember that for most Championship clubs the B & I Cup is very much of secondary importance. Having played seven straight weeks of Championship rugby many of the clubs will be resting and rotating players.

London Irish and London Welsh possibly are the two teams most likely to be taking it seriously.

No sponsor and coverage not as good as it good means English sides wont care too much when promotion to premiership is aim. If prize for winning was better than maybe it would be different...

And Munster As game in Doncaster is off at the weekend after both sides agreed to postpone the game