Population of Donegal decreases

muffler

The preliminary census results published today shows the population of Donegal declined by 2,382 during the last 5 years which is the biggest decrease in the country.

So whats the cause of this? Emigration? Or immigrants who were here in 2011 and who have returned to their native countries? More people have died than have been born? Combination of all of the above?

Open to the floor

charlie14

muffler wrote: »

The preliminary census results published today shows the population of Donegal declined by 2,382 during the last 5 years which is the biggest decrease in the country.

So whats the cause of this? Emigration? Or immigrants who were here in 2011 and who have returned to their native countries? More people have died than have been born? Combination of all of the above?

Open to the floor

Emigration, during a recession, from a county that had few jobs to start with and a government that could care less.
I`d be surprised if half of them could have found it on a map.

Simple as.

L1011

charlie14 wrote: »

could care less.

<MOD SNIP>

Its [e]migration - a hell of a lot of it is internal migration rather than out of the country from what I can see but there's also a fair whack gone abroad. Few second cousins in Chicago illegally just like the 80s!

Markcheese

I heard this on the radio earlier,
Its a bit sad.. but are you surprised...
The country is polarising as it modernises...nobody is under any illusions as too the big bad world thats out there,and how their friends live....if numbers of people of your own age/circle go below a tipping point , then why stay ? Even if you have a job, income or home... is there a life...

echo beach

I actually thought the decrease would have been much more given the numbers of young people that have left the county. There was a net outward migration of 6,731 which was almost as many people as migrated INTO Dublin and caused a housing crisis.

FanadMan

Within the last 18 months I've helped almost a dozen people with their Canadian visa application. One has returned. Even in this tiny part of Donegal there's a drop :-( And only 1 has returned.
When I was a kid going to school (70's) there was about 15 getting on the bus at the local stop - now there's only 1. It's a sad sight in the townland where I live - there used to be lots of people from young to old and now it's almost deserted.

Judge Trudy

If anything I would have said the population especially in more urban areas was increasing. One thing I saw when I was growing up was big families with 4,5,6,7 children. Nowadays families in Donegal are not so big, with maybe 2-3 children being the norm. There is definitely a move from rural to urban in Donegal with smaller families.

I wish there were more high skilled jobs in Donegal, I have two siblings abroad who would come home in a heartbeat if they could get jobs to match their skill set here. It's a great place to live if you have a good job and a family.

ongarboy

Urban areas within a county can still increase while the county as a whole decreases in population. A lot of rural dwellers will migrate to the larger towns in the county increasing their populations but many more will migrate to other counties/cities and abroad. Unfortunately for Donegal this seems to be the case where the increases in places like Letterkenny were negated by larger decreases due to migration out of the county.

echo beach

Judge Trudy wrote: »

One thing I saw when I was growing up was big families with 4,5,6,7 children. Nowadays families in Donegal are not so big, with maybe 2-3 children being the norm.

That is the case all over the country but other areas are seeing an increase in population so it doesn't explain why Donegal's population has dropped.
The big question is, "Can the decline be slowed down or reversed?" I would suggest that the decline will continue and even accelerate unless young people can get jobs that pay the sort of wages that allow them to settle down and start families. At the moment those jobs seem to be only in the cities or abroad.

Its dead Jim

Quite a few people I know left for college and never returned. I struggle to think of anyone who did return. Some of those who stayed then left to go elsewhere like Galway, Dublin, and Australia.

Both my sons have moved abroad, my daughter, though employed, is seriously considering it.

Neither of my sons wanted to move, but they're getting almost twice the salary abroad that they could earn here, assuming they could get permanent positions here.

My daughter is employed in a position that suits her qualifications.
Unfortunately, her salary is less than half what she could earn abroad. (And a lot less than she could earn elsewhere in the Country)

To cut a long story short - I think we will see more of our youth leaving, partly because of the lack of employment, but also partly because the current high unemployment rates are driving wages/salaries down - and our youth who are not tied down with mortgages or families are not willing to sacrifice their future prospects, however much they may love living at home.

It's as simple as that! (imo - and personal experience).

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Four out of five of my kids are over in Scotland basically because to do what they wanted they had no choice. Have to agree totally with Lochlach

muffler

Have to agree that unemployment / poor employment opportunities appears to be the main contributors to the decline.

Unless I have slept under a rock since these stats were announced I have to say that the local politicians have been laying low with little or no comment from them which is a sad indictment of their ability to represent the people of this county.

L1011

Most of the politicians are around long enough to have been part of the cause of the decline. You (I'm in a different constituency these days) re-elected Pat the Cope ffs.

The last boom in jobs in the county was a mix of unsustainable construction jobs and low end manufacturing that would go as soon as costs increased - e.g. putting a sodding paintball plant in the old Fruit of the Loom factory in Dungloe with masses of IDA money. Somehow a proper medtech firm was found for that site during the crash, with lots and lots of far better paying and much more price resistant jobs. And now we've elected much the same shower that went for the quick gains, good PR and no sustainability options!

muffler

Correct on both counts ^

NIMAN

Cronyism is very much alive and well in Donegal politics.

People get elected for many years whether they do any good or not.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

Most of the politicians are around long enough to have been part of the cause of the decline. You (I'm in a different constituency these days) re-elected Pat the Cope ffs.

The last boom in jobs in the county was a mix of unsustainable construction jobs and low end manufacturing that would go as soon as costs increased - e.g. putting a sodding paintball plant in the old Fruit of the Loom factory in Dungloe with masses of IDA money. Somehow a proper medtech firm was found for that site during the crash, with lots and lots of far better paying and much more price resistant jobs. And now we've elected much the same shower that went for the quick gains, good PR and no sustainability options!

That's a fair point, even if my first reaction was to tell you that some of us have been saying for years that there will be no change in Irish politics until all of the old guard are gone...

I have to admit I was shell shocked when Pat the Cope was re-elected, I'm just wondering whether it was on a "He fixed the potholes" or ""He was better than the other shower!"
basis.

muffler

Lets not dwell too long on past elections etc as there were threads here previously for those discussions at the time.

Cheers

Markcheese

So what do people think donegal needs to kick start a revival ?? Be realistic though , the population isnt there to support a motorway running through the county, and what advantage would a railway be ... ?
Just think a road in also leads out and things like the internet ( which needs to be rolled out) can lead to a reduction in using local services ...

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

So what do people think donegal needs to kick start a revival ?? Be realistic though , the population isnt there to support a motorway running through the county, and what advantage would a railway be ... ?
Just think a road in also leads out and things like the internet ( which needs to be rolled out) can lead to a reduction in using local services ...

Jobs that pay a decent wage would be a pretty good start, imo, together with improvements in infrastructure.
There are several careers where the salary paid in Donegal is well below the National average.

The most talented people are not going to work for smaller salaries just for the scenery....

echo beach

Markcheese wrote: »

Just think a road in also leads out and things like the internet ( which needs to be rolled out) can lead to a reduction in using local services ...

Good point. Do we need campaigns to highlight the value that there is to be had locally? ShopLK is a good initiative but maybe more needs to be done in the smaller towns and villages that are suffering most.
Public transport needs to be looked at. How do you get to Glenveagh National Park, Sliabh League or Fanad Lighthouse if you don't drive? Many people in Donegal need a car to buy milk and bread not to mention getting to a doctor or hospital appointment.

L1011

Transport, broadband, gas mains to the larger towns.

muffler

Enough!

I have deleted all off topic posts as it appears that some people are intent on contributing nothing to this thread other than spoiling it for others.

Firblog

NIMAN wrote: »

Cronyism is very much alive and well in Donegal politics.

People get elected for many years whether they do any good or not.

I think that local politicians have very little to do with the unemployment rates in Donegal, sure they'll claim credit if they drop and stay silent if they rise; and it is the availability of employment that is the main factor in the rise or fall of the population of Donegal.

So what are the main factors affecting employment in businesses in Donegal? Surely the main one is the Sterling exchange rate?

Many Donegal businesses would sell into the north and compete with businesses based there - therefore the exchange rate would have a big affect on the viability of a business.
However I believe allied to this is the willingness of the people in Donegal to cross the border and spend their money there that is a bigger factor in the loss employment, how many little shops have closed?
I spoke to a man who has a small shop, he was in Strabane 2 days after the Brexit vote; he said the ASDA car park was full of DL cars. This is because people believed that they could get goods cheaper because sterling had fallen big in the preceding days.. even though it had been at the same rate 18mths earlier and there was no rush across the border.
A lot of people in Donegal don't care the effect their spending habits have on local businesses, yet complain that there are no jobs for their kids...
Another example would be local govt bodies, they don't really get that their spending power could help locally. I have schools looking for me to take transition year students in for work experience, yet most of them have never purchased anything from my business - I even quoted at cost price once just to see, and didn't get the sale, yet I knew I was cheaper than anyone else. So where are the kids they are teaching are going to get work experience if they don't purchase anything in local businesses? they & most others don't see cause and effect.

So instead of asking what are the politicians doing to get employment into Donegal, why don't you ask what are you doing? because where you spend your money does affect the whole local economy for good and ill, including the future employment prospects of the kids growing up in Donegal now.