The FAI confirm they will be debt free by 2020

Godot.

What do we reckon they will they do with the surplus money generated from 2020 onwards?

Windfall for LoI clubs, maybe?

LuckyLloyd

National Youth Academy please. Way above LOI clubs on my priority list.

mirwillbeback

Godot. wrote: »

What do we reckon they will they do with the surplus money generated from 2020 onwards?

Windfall for LoI clubs, maybe?

John Delaney's kids weddings due then.

That_Guy

A new set of expensive ties for Kommandant Delaney.

That_Guy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

National Youth Academy please. Way above LOI clubs on my priority list.

They'll advertise it as a "National" academy... Then locate it solely in Dublin.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Debt free from the stadium they helped pay for but don't retain long term ownership of?

Is that the debt they will be free from?

The FAI are ahead of the game as always.

Knex*

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

National Youth Academy please. Way above LOI clubs on my priority list.

Yeah, that would be massive.

Relevant Guardian article from 2013 on the youth setup in Germany, for anyone interested.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent

Patww79 wrote: »

A competitive league would do far more than some wishy washy academy. I wouldn't dole out money to LoI clubs the way they're currently run for sure, but a good league would be too good an idea to just dump.

I think that's the equivalent of painting over the cracks. Get the foundation right and build from there, would be my line of thinking.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Exactly, there was 6 or 7 former LOI players in our squad for the Euros. Probably around the same amount as non Irish born players?

The League of Ireland is one of the only few ways in which our national team can be improved. And one of the only ways in which our national team can be improved that is within 'our' control.

K-9

Weren't they supposed to be debt free round about now!

OwaynOTT

Have they consolidated all their loans into one manageable monthly repayment? Did they get the stadium on Flexi-rent?

Flint Fredstone

That_Guy wrote: »

They'll advertise it as a "National" academy... Then locate it solely in Dublin.

The capital of the country with the highest population and the most clubs seems like the perfect place for a "National" academy to me.
Where do you want it? Sligo?

Corholio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

National Youth Academy please. Way above LOI clubs on my priority list.

Way above LOI 'clubs' perhaps but for me not above a League of Ireland.

StringerBell

Pay rises all round

farna_boy

I wonder if they all took a pay cut to bring them down to a reasonable level, how much sooner would they debt free?

LuckyLloyd

It's a matter of priority lads. Not saying the LOI doesn't matter, but part of what will help the LOI clubs is a conveyor belt of young talent and an ability for them to convince players to stay and play for them rather than take a punt at a lower tier English club.

The FAI have had to drag the LOI clubs down into the youth domain somewhat kicking and screaming via the U19 and U17 leagues. For the benefit of the game here (including the LOI clubs) we want the FAI to hold ever greater control of youth talent. A national Academy and a national U15 league with the LOI clubs involved would help break the current dependence on the professional UK game to develop our players.

Remember that the top schoolboy clubs exist to get players signed by UK teams and to pocket some cash for same. Every step that scuttles their power improves the long term health of the game here. If there is cash to be chucked about, that's where it needs to go over and above any senior LOI club setup. Lay the foundations, then build up.

Corholio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The FAI have had to drag the LOI clubs down into the youth domain somewhat kicking and screaming via the U19 and U17 leagues.
.

I agree with most of what you said but that is a very skewed view of that. The F.A.I. set up those youth leagues, showed it to clubs and practically said 'there you go, you figure out the funding structure and organisation of it'. LOI clubs have always relied on their youth setup, it just didn't have official titles of U17 or U19 league. Completely agree on the schoolboy clubs though, they are a much more growing concern on getting some proper balance to all setups in this country.

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's a matter of priority lads. Not saying the LOI doesn't matter, but part of what will help the LOI clubs is a conveyor belt of young talent and an ability for them to convince players to stay and play for them rather than take a punt at a lower tier English club.

The FAI have had to drag the LOI clubs down into the youth domain somewhat kicking and screaming via the U19 and U17 leagues. For the benefit of the game here (including the LOI clubs) we want the FAI to hold ever greater control of youth talent. A national Academy and a national U15 league with the LOI clubs involved would help break the current dependence on the professional UK game to develop our players.

Remember that the top schoolboy clubs exist to get players signed by UK teams and to pocket some cash for same. Every step that scuttles their power improves the long term health of the game here. If there is cash to be chucked about, that's where it needs to go over and above any senior LOI club setup. Lay the foundations, then build up.

Read last week that they're bringing in another 'youth level' before the UEFA B Licence. I think it's 8 courses you now need to do before being at that level. Very cynical about it.

That_Guy

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The capital of the country with the highest population and the most clubs seems like the perfect place for a "National" academy to me.
Where do you want it? Sligo?

Why not have branches around the entire country? Not saying they should have it in each county but at least have 5-6 centres that are at least accessible to hopeful young players from surrounding counties.

Football shouldn't be exclusive to Dublin. I get it that's the biggest catchment area but we could do with a national academy that is available to everyone nationally.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Bateman

In an unprecedented era of zero interest rates and no sign of them going up, why on earth would any organisation with development at its core (supposedly) want to be debt-free? What exactly is the appeal?

They should be borrowing to the hilt to build an academy if they want one. :rolleyes:

Flint Fredstone

That_Guy wrote: »

Why not have branches around the entire country? Not saying they should have it in each county but at least have 5-6 centres that are at least accessible to hopeful young players from surrounding counties.

Football shouldn't be exclusive to Dublin. I get it that's the biggest catchment area but we could do with a national academy that is available to everyone nationally.

Well if there was going to be a national academy I was presuming there would only be one, otherwise they would just be academies no?

TheDoc

Not surprised they will be debt considering they are charging €80 a ticket for Aviva friendlies....

But as to what they need to do, Lloyd hitting the nail on the head there. We celebrate our feeder clubs as if they are some form of achievement, when in fact they just act as a glorified shipping company, to send over lads and get a few quid in the pocket. While I wouldn't want to degrade the work they do, it's not like we are sending kids over anywhere near the level required to succeed.

Pump money into a national academy (small country, only need one) and provide a clear progression for kids coming from schoolboy into LOI. Bring some exciting talent and prospects to the league, and pull the neutral interest in.Let the LOI become the breeding ground, and if players move from there fine. At least they move or transfer fees, and at least they will have had SOME first team senior exposure to help. Instead of being plucked as kids from feeder clubs being totally unprepared and bewildered by the experience. Especially now considering the widths clubs go in terms of scouting.

eagle eye

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The capital of the country with the highest population and the most clubs seems like the perfect place for a "National" academy to me.
Where do you want it? Sligo?

Somewhere that is easily accessible to kids from all over the country. Athlone is actually the centre of the island of Ireland but maybe somewhere like Mullingar or Portlaoise so that kids from Cork, Limerick, Waterford don't have that long slog to Dublin and back home again afterwards.

I wonder if you have kids, or if you ever thought about kids before you posted this?

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

Somewhere that is easily accessible to kids from all over the country. Athlone is actually the centre of the island of Ireland but maybe somewhere like Mullingar or Portlaoise so that kids from Cork, Limerick, Waterford don't have that long slog to Dublin and back home again afterwards.

I wonder if you have kids, or if you ever thought about kids before you posted this?

To be fair, well over 50% of the population would be within an hours drive from Dublin. It's the logical location unless you can have more than one. People might get browned off about the fact that it doesn't suit everyone but it's the most suitable if you're approaching the situation from a logical rather than emotive viewpoint.

I mean let's say you actually do put it in Athlone, you're still talking nearly a 2 and a half hour drive from Cork (the next biggest populated area).

Mushy

CSF wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

Somewhere that is easily accessible to kids from all over the country. Athlone is actually the centre of the island of Ireland but maybe somewhere like Mullingar or Portlaoise so that kids from Cork, Limerick, Waterford don't have that long slog to Dublin and back home again afterwards.

I wonder if you have kids, or if you ever thought about kids before you posted this?

To be fair, well over 50% of the population would be within an hours drive from Dublin. It's the logical location unless you can have more than one. People might get browned off about the fact that it doesn't suit everyone but it's the most suitable if you're approaching the situation from a logical rather than emotive viewpoint.

I mean let's say you actually do put it in Athlone, you're still talking nearly a 2 and a half hour drive from Cork (the next biggest populated area).

In Dublin, close to the M50 would be the logical place. Either along the Limerick/Cork motorway, or along Galway one.

CSF

Mushy wrote: »

In Dublin, close to the M50 would be the logical place. Either along the Limerick/Cork motorway, or along Galway one.

Yeah, something well connected like that would be ideal.

eagle eye

CSF wrote: »

To be fair, well over 50% of the population would be within an hours drive from Dublin. It's the logical location unless you can have more than one. People might get browned off about the fact that it doesn't suit everyone but it's the most suitable if you're approaching the situation from a logical rather than emotive viewpoint.

I mean let's say you actually do put it in Athlone, you're still talking nearly a 2 and a half hour drive from Cork (the next biggest populated area).

An hour from Dublin?

Galway? Mayo? Donegal? Cork? Kerry? Limerick?

I think you'll find that a big part of the population would be within two hour's drive of Portlaoise and that is including Ireland's second biggest city and the county with the second biggest population in the country.

Zebra3

Godot. wrote: »

What do we reckon they will they do with the surplus money generated from 2020 onwards?

Windfall for LoI clubs, maybe?

Delaney originally claimed the FAI would move in to the new Lansdowne debt free. In 2010.

Maybe he should get a huge bonus if it actually happens ten years late....

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Delaney originally claimed the FAI would move in to the new Lansdowne debt free. In 2010.

Maybe he should get a huge bonus if it actually happens ten years late....

Yeah, was thinking that.

First, I just don't believe the FAI on anything financial, ticket sales, revenue etc. They have had a history of being adverse to the truth or transparency. Second, is this really such an achievement anyway? I'd nearly rather them in debt, they will do SFA if they were swimming in money, bar move to better offices, up their salaries, bring a few more inside the tent etc.

titan18

I think regional academies would be better than one national academy. Have 3 to 4 located around the country. Dublin would be the central hub, but having good facilities in Cork, Limerick, Galway etc would be a big boost for youth football in those areas.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

An hour from Dublin?

Galway? Mayo? Donegal? Cork? Kerry? Limerick?

I think you'll find that a big part of the population would be within two hour's drive of Portlaoise and that is including Ireland's second biggest city and the county with the second biggest population in the country.

Those 6 counties you mentioned do not make up even close to 50% of the population which I referred to. The 6 of them combined would only come to slightly more than the population of Dublin itself. Dublin, Meath, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow, Westmeath, Offaly and Laois almost certainly go well over 50%.

I get that this makes people who aren't close to Dublin unhappy, but for logical reasons, putting things of national importance in an area of close proximity to about 2.25 million people takes precedence over making sure things of national importance are of equal distance to everybody.

CSF

titan18 wrote: »

I think regional academies would be better than one national academy. Have 3 to 4 located around the country. Dublin would be the central hub, but having good facilities in Cork, Limerick, Galway etc would be a big boost for youth football in those areas.

Facilities improving everywhere would be a massive plus for Irish football. I think people are talking about going the French route and having one state of the art academy that produces the best players with the best coaches.

I think it is almost a given that the FAI should be trying to develop the game everywhere, assisting clubs and regional football associations everywhere in improving facilities throughout the country.

Flint Fredstone

eagle eye wrote: »

Somewhere that is easily accessible to kids from all over the country. Athlone is actually the centre of the island of Ireland but maybe somewhere like Mullingar or Portlaoise so that kids from Cork, Limerick, Waterford don't have that long slog to Dublin and back home again afterwards.

I wonder if you have kids, or if you ever thought about kids before you posted this?

Lovely Bloke

While that's a funny post, it glosses over the fact that these academies are actually FOR children.

But then again, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that any "national" academy should be located anywhere but close to Dublin.

farna_boy

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

While that's a funny post, it glosses over the fact that these academies are actually FOR children.

But then again, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that any "national" academy should be located anywhere but close to Dublin.

Yeah especially when you consider that of the former League of Ireland players currently on the national squad, only 3 of the 7 are from Dublin. The others would have had to travel between 2 - 3.5 hours to get to Dublin.

eagle eye

CSF wrote: »

Those 6 counties you mentioned do not make up even close to 50% of the population which I referred to. The 6 of them combined would only come to slightly more than the population of Dublin itself. Dublin, Meath, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow, Westmeath, Offaly and Laois almost certainly go well over 50%.

I get that this makes people who aren't close to Dublin unhappy, but for logical reasons, putting things of national importance in an area of close proximity to about 2.25 million people takes precedence over making sure things of national importance are of equal distance to everybody.

It certainly wouldn't affect the people of Westmeath, Offaly and Laois, it'd actually be closer for a lot of them.

So it's about shortening the trip for those on the West Coast and the South West Coast to make it fair to everybody.

Dublin to Portlaoise is only an hour. Louth people might have further to go but it's about balancing it out and making it accessible to everybody.

If you want to make the best use of something like this then you have to make it accessible to as many as possible and Portlaoise would do that.

By the way I don't live anywhere near Portlaoise, it would be a slightly longer trip than to Dublin for me.

irelandrover

There should be 2 or 3 academies set up around the country. Pick places that are easily accessible. Dublin is the obvious choice for one. Perhaps south Limerick as well and then northern Galway. Would cover a lot of the country.

Then there needs to be a pathway from the academies into the LoI. Perhaps a draft style system would work? Would take some working out to develop it in a fair way.

SEPT 23 1989

copy what they did in Iceland

ArmaniJeanss

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

copy what they did in Iceland

Lots of indoor arenas to beat the winter snow?

Francie Barrett

That_Guy wrote: »

Why not have branches around the entire country? Not saying they should have it in each county but at least have 5-6 centres that are at least accessible to hopeful young players from surrounding counties.

Football shouldn't be exclusive to Dublin. I get it that's the biggest catchment area but we could do with a national academy that is available to everyone nationally.

The FAI aren't so rich as they can have centres dotted throughout the country with the top quality facilities and coaching at each one. For a tiny country with a small population, to me at least it makes sense to centralize the whole operation. I think with a lot of work and money, it might be possible to get one truly world class centre of excellence developed. The moment you try to dilute that, you will just end up with mediocrity.

People have to set reasonable expectations about the goals of a centre of excellence. Realistically, if we got one player a year who went on to play at a high level and became a regular international, we'd be doing well. A single digit number of them would go onto to compete at lower levels, and unfortunately the majority would not make it. Given that only a handful of players in a given year are going to make the grade as professionals, it makes sense to have one centre of excellence, to provide them the very best coaching and facilities. We can only get that with centralization.

Edenderry is the centre of population so put it there. Though travel times out from Dublin will take proportionately longer so maybe a little closer to Dublin, Maynooth or so, there, fair for everyone.

Pro. F

I am extremely sceptical of the idea that making kids travel an hour each way to and from an academy* is better for developing footballers than giving kids high quality coaching in their home area.

Could somebody spell out the argument to me of why an academy (singular or multiple) would be better than high quality, youth development coaching in every junior football club throughout the country?

* And this would be in the dreamworld scenario where we have multiple academies, covering the country in a well thought out network so that no kid would have a longer journey.

Pro. F

Knex. wrote: »

Yeah, that would be massive.

Relevant Guardian article from 2013 on the youth setup in Germany, for anyone interested.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent

Reading that article it becomes clear that the professional clubs are just as important to the success of German youth development as the central planning from the German FA.

Edit: On a side note, while that article is disparaging of the English model for lack of competitive youth football matches, when compared to the German system, the writer fails to mention that the wildly successful Spanish system also limits competitive games during youth development. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the English copied that idea from the Spanish when they were overhauling their youth development.

artanevilla

It would make more sense for the FAI to work with LOI clubs (LOL!) and set up proper academies within those clubs.

There's no point in having FAI run schools if there's nothing after it. "Off to England you pop, to have all our good work undone by their terrible system for the rest of your development years!"

If you were to have them within the LOI, you'd be graduating into a professional football environment, within the control of the FAI's development team, and it would have the added benefit of improving the League itself.

It also solves the problem of location, you'd have academies in the strong footballing towns of the country. Dublin, Sligo, Cork, Galway, Derry, Dundalk, Drogheda, Athlone, Waterford, Wexford, Longford, Limerick etc...

Francie Barrett

Pro. F wrote: »

Could somebody spell out the argument to me of why an academy (singular or multiple) would be better than high quality, youth development coaching in every junior football club throughout the country?

People have to set reasonable expectations about the goals of a centre of excellence. Realistically, if we got one player a year who went on to play at a high level and became a regular international, we'd be doing well. A single digit number of them would go onto to compete at lower levels, and unfortunately the majority would not make it. Given that only a handful of players in a given year are going to make the grade as professionals, it makes sense to have one centre of excellence, to provide them the very best coaching and facilities. We can only get that with centralization.

.

Francie Barrett

Pro. F wrote: »

I am extremely sceptical of the idea that making kids travel an hour each way to and from an academy* is better for developing footballers than giving kids high quality coaching in their home area.

You are right. It makes no sense for children to travel. That is why I would suggest the Barcelona model at La Masia. Keep the academy close to Dublin to get the greatest catchment of players. Players could live at home if it's convenient. If not convenient, then they could board.

Pro. F

Francie Barrett wrote: »

"People have to set reasonable expectations about the goals of a centre of excellence. Realistically, if we got one player a year who went on to play at a high level and became a regular international, we'd be doing well. A single digit number of them would go onto to compete at lower levels, and unfortunately the majority would not make it. Given that only a handful of players in a given year are going to make the grade as professionals, it makes sense to have one centre of excellence, to provide them the very best coaching and facilities. We can only get that with centralization."

The idea that youth scouting can identify the young players who are going to make it as professionals and therefor select them to be trained in a centre of excellence is false.

All of the anecdotal evidence from modern youth development points to the opposite being the case - that youth scouting, the world over, consistently fails in identifying future pros.

Strong Life in Dublin

eagle eye wrote: »

Somewhere that is easily accessible to kids from all over the country. Athlone is actually the centre of the island of Ireland but maybe somewhere like Mullingar or Portlaoise so that kids from Cork, Limerick, Waterford don't have that long slog to Dublin and back home again afterwards.

I wonder if you have kids, or if you ever thought about kids before you posted this?

Being in the centre doesn't mean its more accessible, Dublin has all the transport links

Strong Life in Dublin

farna_boy wrote: »

Yeah especially when you consider that of the former League of Ireland players currently on the national squad, only 3 of the 7 are from Dublin. The others would have had to travel between 2 - 3.5 hours to get to Dublin.

If the LOI was better quality maybe more Dublin players would've stayed instead of going to the UK?

Lovely Bloke

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

If the LOI was better quality maybe more Dublin players would've stayed instead of going to the UK?

vicious circle though right?

how can it get better if the best players keep leaving to play in the lower english divisions where the wages on offer are multiples of what's on offer here?

the league remains at the same shít level, and people won't go to games, and the clubs have fúck all income to improve squads or facilities.

how do you stop that cycle? saying the LoI should "get better" isn't really constructive.