Newly sale agreed - questions+

Parchment

Finally we have gone sale agreed (keep going people - it happens eventually!). I have two questions, im asking here as im away for work today and cant phone either place to ask! But i will do tomorrow.

Do architects/can they do structural surveys on older houses? We need one but we also need plans/costings for work inside the house that we want done. The bank needs the plans/costings for the work inside before we get the ball rolling as we are taking much lower of a mortgage than we were approved for so they will be able to cover some of the renovation works too for us. { we had an engineer lined up to do the structural survey but we didnt realise we needed all the costings/drawings straight away for the bank to get the official letter of offer with the full amount we want on it. we had an architect ready to help us with what we wanted done inside but now it makes more sense to get him to do the survey too if he can}.

Second question- AIB are our mortgage provider, they are looking for a valuation from a panel of valuers that they sent us, this has to include the works we want done inside....i assume this valuation happens before the works, so does the valuer look at the plans from the architect and make their valuation based on that?

thanks in advance.

Turtle_

In short, an architect is not a structural engineer and it's an old house, so no; of course they can't do an engineer's job. They're separate professions because they do entirely separate things.

As for the other, the valuer can possibly work from a walk through and description of what you're having done but you'd need to check with the bank and them.

MarkAnthony

Sale Agreed simply means the vendor might sell to you assuming one of a hundred things don't go wrong. For your own sake don't get emotionally or financially invested in the property anymore than you absolutely have to.

My advice would be to keep looking and keep yanking the vendors EA's chain by viewing properties with the them to keep the vendor on their toes. Also bear in mind if something better comes along there is nothing to stop you getting the booking deposit back. Even when contracts are signed, there is very little risk from the vendors side in pulling out and the move in date will likely slip.

I hope it's smooth sailing for you OP but prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

MidMan25

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Sale Agreed simply means the vendor might sell to you assuming one of a hundred things don't go wrong. For your own sake don't get emotionally or financially invested in the property anymore than you absolutely have to.

My advice would be to keep looking and keep yanking the vendors EA's chain by viewing properties with the them to keep the vendor on their toes. Also bear in mind if something better comes along there is nothing to stop you getting the booking deposit back. Even when contracts are signed, there is very little risk from the vendors side in pulling out and the move in date will likely slip.

I hope it's smooth sailing for you OP but prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I'll second this.

We are sale agreed 4.5 months, everything was going smoothly then the hiccups started, 5 weeks to sort out a land registry map issue, now 4 weeks delay with vendor signing contracts which isn't going to happen by the looks of things.

In summary: Don't get your hopes up and expect things to go wrong!

Parchment

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Sale Agreed simply means the vendor might sell to you assuming one of a hundred things don't go wrong. For your own sake don't get emotionally or financially invested in the property anymore than you absolutely have to.

My advice would be to keep looking and keep yanking the vendors EA's chain by viewing properties with the them to keep the vendor on their toes. Also bear in mind if something better comes along there is nothing to stop you getting the booking deposit back. Even when contracts are signed, there is very little risk from the vendors side in pulling out and the move in date will likely slip.

I hope it's smooth sailing for you OP but prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

We get that it may not be smooth sailing but we need to move on things to get the bank moving obviously. hence my question - i dont really understand the negativity here.

we need to get a survey etc done before the bank will issue a letter of offer so it is what it is. It has to be done.

SB_Part2

Parchment wrote: »

We get that it may not be smooth sailing but we need to move on things to get the bank moving obviously. hence my question - i dont really understand the negativity here.

we need to get a survey etc done before the bank will issue a letter of offer so it is what it is. It has to be done.

Did they ask for the plans to be done up as well before the issue of the offer letter?

Parchment

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Did they ask for the plans to be done up as well before the issue of the offer letter?

Yes - we need to present the full amount sought to AIB before the letter of offer issues, so we need to have the costings/plans (along with the valuation including the works) for the works along with the amount sought to actually purchase the house.

So as I see it its :
-structural survey by engineer (our own choice to do as its a very old house)

Then if that's all ok :
Architect - to do up plans for what we want done, along with costings.

Then:
Present all that to one of the AIB approved valuation panel, if they agree that the valuation/works add up to adding value to the house.

Then: All that goes to AIB and hopefully the letter of offer is furnished.

Then that goes to our solicitor and the games begin....

SB_Part2

That's going to be pretty expensive

Parchment

SB_Part2 wrote: »

That's going to be pretty expensive

What's your point?

NyOmnishambles

Parchment wrote: »

Then if that's all ok :
Architect - to do up plans for what we want done, along with costings.

Then:
Present all that to one of the AIB approved valuation panel, if they agree that the valuation/works add up to adding value to the house.

We were in a similar position last year, old house that needed work and we planned on extending, house cost less than we were approved for so the bank provided funding for the renovations (currently ongoing)

To start the process we got the structural survey done, well worth the money paid, even just for piece of mind as it didn't uncover anything

For the next bit an architect is expensive for a house you might not end up buying but hopefully will
We drew up plans for what we thought we might want and got a builder to quote for the work, this was provided to the bank (KBC) and the valuer and was deemed acceptable and more importantly didn't cost anything

it would be more in your interests if you could avoid the costs of an architect until you have secured the house

And without wanting to hop on the negativity wagon it took 11 months from sale agreed to sale due to a complicated probate and approx another 6 months to tender and agree works with builders and get it completed

Hopefully yours is a lot smoother and faster

SB_Part2

Parchment wrote: »

What's your point?

I was just making you aware that it's an expensive route you're going through. If you can get away with not having to pay for an architect until you've your deposit or contracts signed I'd try do that.

Best of luck.

Parchment

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

We were in a similar position last year, old house that needed work and we planned on extending, house cost less than we were approved for so the bank provided funding for the renovations (currently ongoing)

To start the process we got the structural survey done, well worth the money paid, even just for piece of mind as it didn't uncover anything

For the next bit an architect is expensive for a house you might not end up buying but hopefully will
We drew up plans for what we thought we might want and got a builder to quote for the work, this was provided to the bank (KBC) and the valuer and was deemed acceptable and more importantly didn't cost anything

it would be more in your interests if you could avoid the costs of an architect until you have secured the house

And without wanting to hop on the negativity wagon it took 11 months from sale agreed to sale due to a complicated probate and approx another 6 months to tender and agree works with builders and get it completed

Hopefully yours is a lot smoother and faster

Hi - thanks so much for the reply with a realistic viewpoint!


We wish we liked new houses that were in turn-key condition but we like older houses. We also want to put our own stamp on things.

Yes - we want the surveyor for peace of mind more than anything - as its not actually needed by anyone.

That's a great suggestion about the plans - we can try that and see if they will accept it/

MarkAnthony

Parchment wrote: »

We get that it may not be smooth sailing but we need to move on things to get the bank moving obviously. hence my question - i dont really understand the negativity here.

we need to get a survey etc done before the bank will issue a letter of offer so it is what it is. It has to be done.

Do what you need to get done, of course. Do no more is the point. The 'negativity' comes from being a regular in this forum and seeing people getting caught out. Now I'm sure the vast majority of people have an easier time but be prepared.

DamoKen

Parchment was in the same boat as yourself up until Friday before last when after a year of to-ing and fro'ing it all came together and we finally moved in.

Same deal, old house circa 1850's and yeah survey is a prerequisite with the banks final approval. For an old house I would strongly advise a good survey if it's a place you are serious about and make your offer survey dependent. It can be expensive but in our case was very much worthwhile. We ended up reducing our offer based on the report which was finally accepted saving us from a very expensive surprise.

For us a decent chartered surveyor was enough. He included estimated costs for re-roofing, rewiring, insulation/windows/damp proofing etc. His estimates on the rewiring and roof replacement were very good, both quotes we've gone with were quite close to the lower end on his (after some haggling).

When you mention works you want are you talking about what's necessary to get the house liveable and comfortable or are you including everything you want irrespective of immediate need? I'd be careful what you present to the bank as essential works in your application as it could come back and bite you unless that is the overall cost falls well within approval bands.

We applied with a 40% deposit after the sale of our old home and didn't get approval for the amount we requested which wasn't crazy by any means, just slightly over what was left on our existing mortgage. Their reasoning was the money we had saved for the roof specifically could make up the remainder of the mortgage, despite during the credit check assuring us that savings unless stated by us would not be included in the mortgage.

Two weeks before we were due to move the bank came back with a final bombshell and now wanted to know how we planned to pay for the essential roof ignoring the fact that's what the savings were for. Cue last minute negotiations saved by our surveyor agreeing to send in a cover letter stating the roof replacement was just advisable and that the house was liveable in it's current state (which it is).

Just something to bear in mind when you are deciding what is essential and what's not.

Parchment

DamoKen wrote: »

Parchment was in the same boat as yourself up until Friday before last when after a year of to-ing and fro'ing it all came together and we finally moved in.

Same deal, old house circa 1850's and yeah survey is a prerequisite with the banks final approval. For an old house I would strongly advise a good survey if it's a place you are serious about and make your offer survey dependent. It can be expensive but in our case was very much worthwhile. We ended up reducing our offer based on the report which was finally accepted saving us from a very expensive surprise.

For us a decent chartered surveyor was enough. He included estimated costs for re-roofing, rewiring, insulation/windows/damp proofing etc. His estimates on the rewiring and roof replacement were very good, both quotes we've gone with were quite close to the lower end on his (after some haggling).

When you mention works you want are you talking about what's necessary to get the house liveable and comfortable or are you including everything you want irrespective of immediate need? I'd be careful what you present to the bank as essential works in your application as it could come back and bite you unless that is the overall cost falls well within approval bands.

We applied with a 40% deposit after the sale of our old home and didn't get approval for the amount we requested which wasn't crazy by any means, just slightly over what was left on our existing mortgage. Their reasoning was the money we had saved for the roof specifically could make up the remainder of the mortgage, despite during the credit check assuring us that savings unless stated by us would not be included in the mortgage.

Two weeks before we were due to move the bank came back with a final bombshell and now wanted to know how we planned to pay for the essential roof ignoring the fact that's what the savings were for. Cue last minute negotiations saved by our surveyor agreeing to send in a cover letter stating the roof replacement was just advisable and that the house was liveable in it's current state (which it is).

Just something to bear in mind when you are deciding what is essential and what's not.

Hi - thanks for your fantastic reply. For a little while i thought we were the only people going through this stuff! Im glad it all worked out in the end for you.

The house is fine to move in now, it has been rented for the past few years.

The owner decided to make the entire bottom floor (its a terrace house) into a large open plan room. We want a hallway from the front door leading to a kitchen and separate sitting room off the hall also. We want to put a backdoor into the utility room (extension out the back). we want to re-floor the hall and sitting room with wooden floors.

Then upstairs we want to move the main bathroom from where it is (A tiny room with no bath) into the box room to make a larger bathroom. We possibly would like to replace the windows also. Insulation is a concern also - but all of this is what we would like to do before hearing what the engineer says. we have about 40k to play with as the house came in under our approval amount, and i think we could do all we want for less than 25k.

Again - thanks for the ray of hope!

athtrasna

Parchment please appreciate the time and effort posters put into replying to your thread. You may not agree with some of the responses but if a post is negative it's usually with good reason. Thanks.

Mod

Cyrus

Parchment wrote: »

Hi - thanks for your fantastic reply. For a little while i thought we were the only people going through this stuff! Im glad it all worked out in the end for you.

The house is fine to move in now, it has been rented for the past few years.

The owner decided to make the entire bottom floor (its a terrace house) into a large open plan room. We want a hallway from the front door leading to a kitchen and separate sitting room off the hall also. We want to put a backdoor into the utility room (extension out the back). we want to re-floor the hall and sitting room with wooden floors.

Then upstairs we want to move the main bathroom from where it is (A tiny room with no bath) into the box room to make a larger bathroom. We possibly would like to replace the windows also. Insulation is a concern also - but all of this is what we would like to do before hearing what the engineer says. we have about 40k to play with as the house came in under our approval amount, and i think we could do all we want for less than 25k.

Again - thanks for the ray of hope!

i hope i am wrong but thats an ambitious wish list of work for that budget, the windows alone could take most of it

Parchment

athtrasna wrote: »

Parchment please appreciate the time and effort posters put into replying to your thread. You may not agree with some of the responses but if a post is negative it's usually with good reason. Thanks.

Mod

I disagree with you - i don't think much time or effort was put into the negative posts. They were just negative for the sake of it. Others in similar situations have shown that the things i posted about are the hoops that need to be jumped through for houses like this.

I dont consider any of my replies rude or inappropriate.

Parchment

Cyrus wrote: »

i hope i am wrong but thats an ambitious wish list of work for that budget, the windows alone could take most of it

We have 3 windows on the front and one that needs replacing on the back - so its not too big of a job. I also hope to rope in my plumber cousin to do a lot of the plumbing stuff so that will help cut costs. Its all going to be very basic and we can work on from then pay cheque by pay cheque.

Cyrus

Parchment wrote: »

We have 3 windows on the front and one that needs replacing on the back - so its not too big of a job. I also hope to rope in my plumber cousin to do a lot of the plumbing stuff so that will help cut costs. Its all going to be very basic and we can work on from then pay cheque by pay cheque.

ok, the very best of luck, hope you get the keys in a reasonable time frame

SB_Part2

Parchment wrote: »

I disagree with you - i don't think much time or effort was put into the negative posts. They were just negative for the sake of it. Others in similar situations have shown that the things i posted about are the hoops that need to be jumped through for houses like this.

I dont consider any of my replies rude or inappropriate.

It's not negativity. It's being realistic. Look at the main thread and you'll see the struggles people are going through. MarkAnthony gave you a great reply here. Don't get too heavily invested until you own the house.

DamoKen

Cyrus wrote: »

i hope i am wrong but thats an ambitious wish list of work for that budget, the windows alone could take most of it

tbh from the description a lot of that work is cosmetic rather than structural. If it's all open plan already downstairs should just require stud walls to separate, the OP could if anyway handy put in the wooden floors themselves, even if the supplier does it it's not a massive cost.

Main costs sound like moving the bathroom, the back door (presume you'll be going for some double glazed PVC door or the like?) and windows.

As it's a terraced house I would think max 6 windows to replace. We had a decent sized 3 bed old terraced house where we replaced the front windows 5 years ago, cost I think came in about 5k with a bit of haggling, and two of the 3 windows were quite large. Fair enough they were PVC, but they didn't look that out of place in the house and shows it is doable without breaking the bank.

Think our overall budget came in at around 30K for that house. For that we also opened out the back which required a rsj installed where we broke out the kitchen into the extension, new fireplace and relocating the boiler upstairs, ensuite in bedroom with no previous plumbing, tiling, rewiring etc. Fair enough this was in 2010, building costs might have been lower but with a ave size house (1000 sq ft) you'd be surprised how far you can stretch your budget

JimmyMW

Parchment wrote: »

Finally we have gone sale agreed (keep going people - it happens eventually!). I have two questions, im asking here as im away for work today and cant phone either place to ask! But i will do tomorrow.

Do architects/can they do structural surveys on older houses? We need one but we also need plans/costings for work inside the house that we want done. The bank needs the plans/costings for the work inside before we get the ball rolling as we are taking much lower of a mortgage than we were approved for so they will be able to cover some of the renovation works too for us. { we had an engineer lined up to do the structural survey but we didnt realise we needed all the costings/drawings straight away for the bank to get the official letter of offer with the full amount we want on it. we had an architect ready to help us with what we wanted done inside but now it makes more sense to get him to do the survey too if he can}.

Second question- AIB are our mortgage provider, they are looking for a valuation from a panel of valuers that they sent us, this has to include the works we want done inside....i assume this valuation happens before the works, so does the valuer look at the plans from the architect and make their valuation based on that?

thanks in advance.

OP get your survey, the surveyor/engineer will list essential work and give a costing to the bank, thats all you need right now, if the sale goes through then approach the bank for a mortgage top up for home improvements.

There is no point at this stage spending all that time money and effort planning the home improvements on something that may or may not go through. Get the house first and work on financing the rest afterwards.

DamoKen

Parchment wrote: »

We are getting the engineer in next week hopefully. Hopefully he can help with the costing and if not i will draw up our own basic plans and get them costed. I hear you about not making all those plans/spending when things can fall apart but we need to make some steps to get things going otherwise we are going backwards.

The only reason i am trying to do all the costing/secure the extra money for renovations when getting the mortgage money is that the bank advised that it would be easier to get it all done now. I think the few things we picked out to do before we move in are reasonable and will only leave us with cosmetic/decorating stuff to do.



thanks for that - i really do think you can do a lot with a little budget. We dont have any grand design type notions, we just want the basics right when we move in and we can work away then.

Sounds like youre good at haggling! i need to practice. Thanks for the reply.

No worries mate, there's no harm in getting your ideas together at this point but basically all you want to invest in now is a decent surveyor. As well as a prerequisite from the bank and the assurance that you're not buying into a money pit they can give you realistic enough costings for essential repairs if required. An architect is not necessary from a banks point of view and by the sounds of it what you will be doing you might not require it if and when you move in, a decent builder would do. That's all we required in our last place, that and our ideas.

Once you've a solid house to work with the additional work you want to do can be done whenever you want.

btw I leave the haggling to my wife, much better at it than me

best of luck

Hazydays123

I have to agree with a lot of the responses here.
I'm sale agreed on an older place too and whilst I have a million ideas for it, realistically the only money i'll part with until contracts are signed is the surveyor cost.
You don't know that this sale will go through. It's been said here before that there are plenty of houses that are on the market but will never actually be sold. The owner might just be testing the water or trying to get an accurate valuation in the case of one of them buying out the other.
It's awful but there are a lot of horrible people out there who have no problem with you wasting a few thousand on a transaction that they never intend to honour.

Having said that, it's your money and your choice. Just have your eyes open.