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Ireland Under 20 2017 6 Nations/Junior World Cup

  • 13-07-2016 10:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Ireland finished 2nd in the 2016 Junior World Cup after a fantastic world cup which followed a mixed 6 Nations where the teams results got better the longer the tournament went on.

    As their is not a full under 20 interprovincial series now and it has been replaced by a development series which may see some players overage for under 20 play I will list the interprovincial series for that as well as the Under 19 interprovincial series.


    Development Squad Fixtures
    Friday, 9th September

    Munster v Connacht, Ulster v Leinster
    Friday, 16th September

    Munster v Ulster, Connacht v Leinster
    Friday, 23rd September

    Leinster v Munster, Ulster v Connacht

    Under 19 Fixtures
    Saturday, 3rd September

    Munster v Connacht, Ulster v Leinster
    Saturday, 10th September

    Munster v Ulster, Connacht v Leinster
    Saturday, 17th September

    Leinster v Munster, Ulster v Connacht

    The 2017 Junior World Cup takes place in Georgia and the groups are below(based upon seedings from the 2016 competition)
    Pool 1: England, Australia, Wales, Samoa
    Pool 2: Ireland, NZ, Scotland, Italy
    Pool 3: Argentina, South Africa, France, Georgia


    Cillian Gallagher (Second Row), Niall Saunders (Scrum Half), Bill Johnston (Out Half) and Johnny McPhillips (Out Half) have already played for the Under 20s and are underage for the 2017 competition


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Connacht u19/20s/Dev played Corinthians last night in Galway.
    Munster u19s beat a Nenagh XV on Monday night


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Tarf1234


    Apparently the Leinster side is effectively going to be all under 20s bar 2 or 3 who are just over and missed last year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Apparently the Leinster side is effectively going to be all under 20s bar 2 or 3 who are just over and missed last year.
    No surprise with that. Leinster will or should have greatest strength in depth and will keep to virtually an under 20s side most years. Connacht probably will have most over 20s


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Tarf1234


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Apparently the Leinster side is effectively going to be all under 20s bar 2 or 3 who are just over and missed last year.
    No surprise with that. Leinster will or should have greatest strength in depth and will keep to virtually an under 20s side most years. Connacht probably will have most over 20s

    Ye, I heard that Connacht will potentially have a few of the A guys from last year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Ye, I heard that Connacht will potentially have a few of the A guys from last year.
    It will likely have a few guys a year or two over 20s
    Munster have a few involved who're over 20s as well. Judging from pics of squads ive seen


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 Hagz


    I'm confused. If they're over 20, how are they eligible to play u20s?

    Is the interpro age parameters different to the international scene?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Hagz wrote: »
    I'm confused. If they're over 20, how are they eligible to play u20s?

    Is the interpro age parameters different to the international scene?
    The 20s interpros are gone. They have been replaced by a development squad interpro series. Some provinces will stick more like to the 20s age grade. Others mightn't as much and have players 1/2/3 years older playing in the development series.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ Stainalert


    The 20s interpros are gone. They have been replaced by a development squad interpro series. Some provinces will stick more like to the 20s age grade. Others mightn't as much and have players 1/2/3 years older playing in the development series.

    This seems like a backward step to me - surely it makes more sense for a bigger number of players to be given the opportunity to show what they can at a higher representative level. Anyone privy to the counter argument?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Stainalert wrote: »
    This seems like a backward step to me - surely it makes more sense for a bigger number of players to be given the opportunity to show what they can at a higher representative level. Anyone privy to the counter argument?
    It widens the pool for provinces to look at older players for development contracts etc
    Its too hard to say if its a backward step when games haven't been played yet. We don't know the make up of these squads yet. We may see more guys not playing up a year from under 19s and then others at older ages filling in for the development series


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ Stainalert


    It widens the pool for provinces to look at older players for development contracts etc
    Its too hard to say if its a backward step when games haven't been played yet. We don't know the make up of these squads yet. We may see more guys not playing up a year from under 19s and then others at older ages filling in for the development series

    I don't think it widens the pool as from I have heard the teams will be made up of 20's players and academy players. To me it looks like it just got a lot harder for an aspiring U'20 to impress as he has to compete with academy players for the opportunity to play.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Stainalert wrote: »
    I don't think it widens the pool as from I have heard the teams will be made up of 20's players and academy players. To me it looks like it just got a lot harder for an aspiring U'20 to impress as he has to compete with academy players for the opportunity to play.
    Well from pics and games ive seen. There is some guys 2-3 years overage for under 20 this season playing. Who have played age grade before and were playing club rugby for a while. Cronan Gleeson ex Irish youth, Munster 18s-20s and has played pro/semi pro in England/France has been involved in Munster squad for example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Tarf1234


    I'm undecided on it. I can see both sides of the argument as it will give players an extra chance if they were injured out of form for a year to play again. However, it may cut down the number of people who get to play in it overall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    I'm undecided on it. I can see both sides of the argument as it will give players an extra chance if they were injured out of form for a year to play again. However, it may cut down the number of people who get to play in it overall.
    May cut number of 20s playing in some places but hard to know. Connacht side are playing tomorrow and i will be there watching. So can see if there's many 20s or over playing. If it improves overall standards then surely its a good thing for the 20s?
    There isnt strict u20 competitions in quite a few other countries so it isnt as much an issue as some are making it out to be


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Leinster league qualifiers groups made.
    U20 league
    Pre qualifier playoffs
    Ashbourne v Suttonians, Seapoint v Wanderers
    JP Fanagan 1/2 Qualifier
    Section A
    MU Barnhall, Naas, Navan, Trinity
    Section B
    Old Belvedere, UCD, St Marys, Buccaneers
    Section C
    Blackrock, Lansdowne, NUIG, Greystones
    Section D
    playoff winner, Old Wesley, Terenure, Clontarf

    Munster leagues not confirmed yet. Only North Munster league has fixtures published.
    Section A: Young Munster, Thurles, Thomond, Old Crescent, Nenagh, Newcastle West
    Section B: Shannon, Garryowen, UL Bohemians, Bruff, St Senans


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,218 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    Rob Lyttle, who I think is eligible for the Irish U20s this year scored 2 tries for Ulster against Exeter yesterday.

    Was he in the JWC squad in June?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    bilston wrote: »
    Rob Lyttle, who I think is eligible for the Irish U20s this year scored 2 tries for Ulster against Exeter yesterday.

    Was he in the JWC squad in June?
    He wasn't. Had been called up for part of 6 Nations but didn't get any game time


  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭ rughug


    He wasn't. Had been called up for part of 6 Nations but didn't get any game time

    Lost Sheep, in your first post 1 month ago you gave dates of the u20/ development squad interpro series on Sept. 9, 16, and 23. The Munster rugby site has them as Sept 2, 9 and 16. You have a lot of sources to clarify this . Can you please confirm ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    rughug wrote: »
    Lost Sheep, in your first post 1 month ago you gave dates of the u20/ development squad interpro series on Sept. 9, 16, and 23. The Munster rugby site has them as Sept 2, 9 and 16. You have a lot of sources to clarify this. Can you please confirm?
    Check on the provincial websites yourself as they could be 2nd/9th/16th.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Under 19 and Development Interpro games start this weekend.
    Teams beginning to be named
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/15177.php#.V8gcCU2V_cs
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/15179.php#.V8gcBE2V_cs

    Leinster U20 Combined & Development squad
    Jack Kelly (St Michaels), Jordan Larmour (St Andrews), Gavin Mullin (Blackrock College), Jimmy O'Brien (UCD RFC), Jack Power (Clontarf FC), Conor Dean (Blackrock College), Charlie Rock (Old Belvedere RFC)
    Greg McGrath (Lansdowne), Tadgh McElroy (Lansdowne), Óisín Heffernan (Terenure), Caelan Dorris (Blackrock), Josh Murphy (UCD), Will Connors (UCD), Barry Fitzpatrick (St Michaels), Paul Boyle (Lansdowne)
    Replacements:
    Sean McNulty (UCD), Martin Mulhall (Lansdowne), Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf), Conor Hand (Navan), Ruairí O'Farrell (Lansdowne), Ciarán Frawley (Skerries), Conor O'Brien (Clontarf), Tim Carroll (UCD RFC)

    Leinster U19s, sponsored by Bank of Ireland
    Peter Hastie (Wicklow), Peter Sullivan (St. Andrews), Sean O'Brien (Mullingar), James Hickey (St. Michaels), Michael Silvester (Clongowes), Josh Miller (Kilkenny College), Patrick Patterson (Blackrock College)
    Eoghan Clarke (CBC Monkstown), Cathal Duff (Clongowes), Jack Aungier (Suttonians/St. Fintans Sutton), Jack Dunne (St. Michaels), Aaron Browne (Cistercian Roscrea), Ruadhan McDonnell (Longford), Max Kearney (Belvedere College), Paddy Ryan (Newbridge College)
    Replacements:
    Daniel Shehan (Clongowes), Jordan Duggan (Newbridge College), Evan Coyle (Gonzaga College), JJ O'Dea (Navan), William Fay (CBC Monkstown), Tim Murphy (Newbridge College), Thomas O'Callaghan (CBC Monkstown), Hugh O'Sullivan (Belvedere College)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Tarf1234


    Under 19 and Development Interpro games start this weekend.
    Teams beginning to be named
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/15177.php#.V8gcCU2V_cs
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/15179.php#.V8gcBE2V_cs

    Leinster U20 Combined & Development squad
    Jack Kelly (St Michaels), Jordan Larmour (St Andrews), Gavin Mullin (Blackrock College), Jimmy O'Brien (UCD RFC), Jack Power (Clontarf FC), Conor Dean (Blackrock College), Charlie Rock (Old Belvedere RFC)
    Greg McGrath (Lansdowne), Tadgh McElroy (Lansdowne), is n Heffernan (Terenure), Caelan Dorris (Blackrock), Josh Murphy (UCD), Will Connors (UCD), Barry Fitzpatrick (St Michaels), Paul Boyle (Lansdowne)
    Replacements:
    Sean McNulty (UCD), Martin Mulhall (Lansdowne), Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf), Conor Hand (Navan), Ruair O'Farrell (Lansdowne), Ciar n Frawley (Skerries), Conor O'Brien (Clontarf), Tim Carroll (UCD RFC)

    Not what I was expecting at all. Very surprised to see Josh Murphy, Sean McNulty, COB and is n Heffernan in particular. Odd split of 4/4 on the bench as well. I thought Ruair O'Farrell had left the system as well.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ greg090


    Only 11 players in Leinster u20 squad are eligible for Ireland u20.
    9 players who played for Ireland u19 last season missing from that Leinster squad.

    Prop: Richie Mouatt (Blackrock College)
    Prop: Michael McCormack (St Mary's College)
    Hooker: Conor Maguire (Boyne RFC)
    Lock: Jack Regan (Birr RFC)
    Lock: Oisin Dowling (St. Michael's College)
    Backrow: Tom de Jongh (Belvedere College)
    Backrow: Johnny Guy (St. Andrews)
    Centre: Michael McDermott (Clongowes Wood)
    Wing: James McKeown (Belvedere College)

    Can't help but feel this bringing in players from above u20 is a bad idea.

    1. Connacht pull out due to not having enough players?
    2. Large numbers of u20 eligible players who have trained all summer, not playing in interpros.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Tarf1234


    greg090 wrote: »
    Only 11 players in Leinster u20 squad are eligible for Ireland u20..

    Very odd.. Can't see the logic behind it. I understand wanting to give a couple of guys who are overage a chance but this seems excessive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ greg090


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Very odd.. Can't see the logic behind it. I understand wanting to give a couple of guys who are overage a chance but this seems excessive.

    its awful, its meant to make the interpros more competitive but connacht aren't playing and it's basically become interpros for players under-22.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Very odd.. Can't see the logic behind it. I understand wanting to give a couple of guys who are overage a chance but this seems excessive.

    I think the idea is to give Academy players more rugby outside of the B&I Cup. Much to the dismay of AIL coaches I'm sure.

    Not sure I like the idea myself, surely is going to negatively affect the u20 national side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ greg090


    an u20 squad travelled to france last week to play warm up games, they returned and half the squad was told they weren't need for the interpros.. couldn't make it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    greg090 wrote: »
    Only 11 players in Leinster u20 squad are eligible for Ireland u20.
    9 players who played for Ireland u19 last season missing from that Leinster squad.

    Can't help but feel this bringing in players from above u20 is a bad idea.

    1. Connacht pull out due to not having enough players?
    2. Large numbers of u20 eligible players who have trained all summer, not included in interpros.
    Why is it such a bad idea that over 20s are playing when it should increase playing standards. The best 20s will still be playing and will now be tested more than before. You may see less 19s playing 20s/development which improves standards of 19s competition and it opens door for guys who may have been missed at 20s for another chance.
    20s interpros games are just 6 games in a long season of development and this helps things overall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ greg090


    Why is an academy hooker(McNulty) on the subs bench ahead of two underage internationals(Magurie/Kelleher) who have trained all summer?

    Why is a academy TH prop who spent the summer playing rugby in OZ playing in this development game?

    Why is an academy scrumhalf who was playign preseason for the senior team playing last week playing in this development game?

    Why is an academy centre on the bench, ahead of younger options such as Tommy O'Brien?

    It's bizarre, I thought leinster would have been smarter than this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Tarf1234


    Ye, really can't understand it. Whatever about 2 or 3 guys who missed the previous year through injury just picking guys who are somewhat similar age is defeating the purpose of it. Very harsh on the guys who have missed out. I wonder if many of them will now turn their nose up at sub academy if that's how they are treated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ greg090


    Why is it such a bad idea that over 20s are playing when it should increase playing standards. The best 20s will still be playing and will now be tested more than before. You may see less 19s playing 20s/development which improves standards of 19s competition and it opens door for guys who may have been missed at 20s for another chance.
    20s interpros games are just 6 games in a long season of development and this helps things overall.


    Your ability to defend the irfu knows no bounds.

    A large number of the best 20's aren't playing, 9 irish u19 internationals from last season are missing from the leinster squad, how does that benefit the 20's team or their development?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ greg090


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Ye, really can't understand it. Whatever about 2 or 3 guys who missed the previous year through injury just picking guys who are somewhat similar age is defeating the purpose of it. Very harsh on the guys who have missed out. I wonder if many of them will now turn their nose up at sub academy if that's how they are treated.

    it's poor man management and player development, spend a summer working hard to play in the interpros and get dropped for academy players.


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