can you take legal action against a council

Sapphire07

just wanted to know if anyone knows if a council is in breach of a tennancy contract over not providing me a safe place to live due to anti social behaviour from next door neighbours. can i take legal action against them. ive been subjected to many years torment and have reported it to the council time and time again but i am getting nowhere so i thought maybe i can get somewhere through the courts . any advice ???

Atlantic Dawn

Have you tried contacting the Gardaí and if you have what has been the outcome of any crime you reported?
Have the council offered you alternative accommodation, have you seeked alternative accommodation?
What outcome do you want from the council, do you want to be moved yourself or want the neighbours moved or sanctions made upon the neighbours?

FortySeven

What kind of anti social behavior are we taking about?

Sapphire07

well im talking about my partner and myself have been both assaulted , yes guards were called but nothin came of it as we had no witnessess plenty of people saw but noone would step forward. abusive threats constant. rubbish and objects been thrown into the back yard. her children being abusive. i have reported it to guards and council everytime . guards keep saying nothing we can do no witnessess but i cant record anything by way of a camera as its illegal. and the council had a word with on one occassion and came back to me with . they have had a word neighbours were supposedly unaware of what their children was doing and sincerely apologise. days following this i get called a ****in rat and more threats of violence

Sapphire07

i would like the council to move them. i moved into this council estate which was brand new build and 3 years later my original neighbour moved out for problems with her other neighbour. the council moved these people in and its been a nightmare since the first week and six years later and its taking its toll now. i just want to live in peace and quiet and come and go without being harassed everytime i step out my front or back door .

GM228

Sapphire07 wrote: »

well im talking about my partner and myself have been both assaulted , yes guards were called but nothin came of it as we had no witnessess plenty of people saw but noone would step forward. abusive threats constant. rubbish and objects been thrown into the back yard. her children being abusive. i have reported it to guards and council everytime . guards keep saying nothing we can do no witnessess but i cant record anything by way of a camera as its illegal. and the council had a word with on one occassion and came back to me with . they have had a word neighbours were supposedly unaware of what their children was doing and sincerely apologise. days following this i get called a ****in rat and more threats of violence

It's not illegal to record it although problems may apply to disclosure of personal data as opposed to capture, what you do with that recording is another issue and it may not be admissible for example in court.

*There is an exemption for "the administration of justice", biut I that dosn't to the ordinary Joe.

Sapphire07

yes ive asked the guards this question. they told me that if i dont have someones consent i cannot record any footage as its illegal and if i record the situation but dont point camera at the person in question. it wont stand up in court of law as i then cant prove its that persons voice . its an aggrevating situation.

Thoie

Sapphire07 wrote: »

yes ive asked the guards this question. they told me that if i dont have someones consent i cannot record any footage as its illegal and if i record the situation but dont point camera at the person in question. it wont stand up in court of law as i then cant prove its that persons voice . its an aggrevating situation.

What the hell? It's not illegal to film people. It may not be allowed in court, but there's nothing to stop you doing it in a public place (don't go film them in their house or anything weird). You could also install CCTV to record your front and back garden - you might need a sticker up saying CCTV in operation.

GM228

Thoie wrote: »

What the hell? It's not illegal to film people. It may not be allowed in court, but there's nothing to stop you doing it in a public place (don't go film them in their house or anything weird). You could also install CCTV to record your front and back garden - you might need a sticker up saying CCTV in operation.

Use of CCTV must be "adequate, relevant and not excessive", in other words anyone who uses CCTV must prove it is justified and reasonable.

Use of CCTV in a domestic setting (i.e in your home and assming you don't work from home) can only be used for personal, family and household affairs and for recreational purposes.

Someone with CCTV in their house which films a public area can actually find themselves in breach of DP laws as per a relevant case at the European Court of Justice in 2014.

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf;jsessionid=9ea7d2dc30dd9e0186d60a344cc8b6d0fc8fc55128f3.e34KaxiLc3qMb40Rch0SaxuTbxr0?text=&docid=160561&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=387358

coylemj

Sapphire07 wrote: »

well im talking about my partner and myself have been both assaulted , yes guards were called but nothin came of it as we had no witnessess ....

It's not necessary to have a third party as a witness to get someone convicted of criminal behaviour. In the case of shoplifting for example, the only witness for the prosecution is typically the store detective yet most of those cases result in a conviction.

Sounds to me like the Gardai just couldn't be bothered.

Thoie

GM228 wrote: »

Use of CCTV must be "adequate, relevant and not excessive", in other words anyone who uses CCTV must prove it is justified and reasonable.

Use of CCTV in a domestic setting (i.e in your home and assming you don't work from home) can only be used for personal, family and household affairs and for recreational purposes.

Someone with CCTV in their house which films a public area can actually find themselves in breach of DP laws as per a relevant case at the European Court of Justice in 2014.

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf;jsessionid=9ea7d2dc30dd9e0186d60a344cc8b6d0fc8fc55128f3.e34KaxiLc3qMb40Rch0SaxuTbxr0?text=&docid=160561&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=387358

Is your front garden (up to the wall/gate) considered a public or private area in that instance? You'd need to ensure that it was only recording your property, and not recording the street outside or some of the neighbour's garden, for example.

Pro Hoc Vice

Thoie wrote: »

Is your front garden (up to the wall/gate) considered a public or private area in that instance? You'd need to ensure that it was only recording your property, and not recording the street outside or some of the neighbour's garden, for example.

Frim the quoted case,

" During the period from 5 October 2007 to 11 April 2008, Mr Ryneš installed and used a camera system located under the eaves of his family home. The camera was installed in a fixed position and could not turn; it recorded the entrance to his home, the public footpath and the entrance to the house opposite."

Further:

"33 To the extent that video surveillance such as that at issue in the main proceedings covers, even partially, a public space and is accordingly directed outwards from the private setting of the person processing the data in that manner, it cannot be regarded as an activity which is a purely ‘personal or household’ activity for the purposes of the second indent of Article 3(2) of Directive 95/46.
34 At the same time, the application of Directive 95/46 makes it possible, where appropriate, to take into account — in accordance, in particular, with Articles 7(f), 11(2), and 13(1)(d) and (g) of that directive — legitimate interests pursued by the controller, such as the protection of the property, health and life of his family and himself, as in the case in the main proceedings.
35 Consequently, the answer to the question referred is that the second indent of Article 3(2) of Directive 95/46 must be interpreted as meaning that the operation of a camera system, as a result of which a video recording of people is stored on a continuous recording device such as a hard disk drive, installed by an individual on his family home for the purposes of protecting the property, health and life of the home owners, but which also monitors a public space, does not amount to the processing of data in the course of a purely personal or household activity, for the purposes of that provision."


The issue is not what it records but why it records, if a person just wants to nose than any recording of public area or other private property would be in breach. If a person has very valid reasons to protect property, health or life of the family then it does not amount to processing.

Sapphire07

thanks for all the information . its important to have all information correct as i go forward so i dont get myself in trouble. but they are just uncivilized people that are not anyway approachable. i do want to fix the situation peacefully , but im getting distinct impression not only are the guards not interested either is the council, but i pay my rent as required and do not cause disturbances of any kind so it is their (the council) responsibility to ensure i have a safe envoirnment to live in . which i think they are in breach of, but not certain where i stand on this issue

Steve

Sapphire07 wrote: »

thanks for all the information . its important to have all information correct as i go forward so i dont get myself in trouble. but they are just uncivilized people that are not anyway approachable. i do want to fix the situation peacefully , but im getting distinct impression not only are the guards not interested either is the council, but i pay my rent as required and do not cause disturbances of any kind so it is their (the council) responsibility to ensure i have a safe envoirnment to live in . which i think they are in breach of, but not certain where i stand on this issue

What makes you think that?

If you rent from a private landlord they are not responsible for the environment outside of what they rent to you.

I fully sympathise with your situation, and I would be delighted to see them being turfed out of accommodation that they are paying little or nothing for and put in prison etc but you are also availing of the same system they are and that was paid for by myself and other tax paying individuals....!

Again I sympathise, however your sense of 'entitlement' and 'society owes me a better life' is disheartening.

GM228

Assuming your neighbours are also council tenants it's possible I suppose to attempt to hold the council liable for their actions as the legal landlords.

I'm not sure if such action has ever taken place in Ireland but in the UK in several cases it's been ruled that a council is liable to do something in some situations of anti social behaviour on the basis of being the legal landlord.

If you're considering any sort of legal action you need to seek legal advice from a solicitor.

uck51js9zml2yt

I've Cctv on my house, the recordings of which were successfully used in a criminal prosecution.
Since then I've often had AGS call up to me asking if it had recorded incidents on the street and seeing if they could get a copy of the footage.

Pro Hoc Vice

Steve wrote: »

What makes you think that?

If you rent from a private landlord they are not responsible for the environment outside of what they rent to you.

I fully sympathise with your situation, and I would be delighted to see them being turfed out of accommodation that they are paying little or nothing for and put in prison etc but you are also availing of the same system they are and that was paid for by myself and other tax paying individuals....!

Again I sympathise, however your sense of 'entitlement' and 'society owes me a better life' is disheartening.

Landlords in Ireland have been help responsible for their inaction. http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landlord-fined-30k-for-tenants-actions-217217.html

While society does not owe a person "a better life" a landlord may be held responsible for its inaction. If a landlord does all in its power then it may be fine but to sit by while one tenant acts in such a way as to harm another may very well leave the landlord open to a claim.

bikermartin

I will be following this very closely as its very close to me. Hope others who have gone through this will have advice for people in the same difficulties. Its a long road ahead..

Steve

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Landlords in Ireland have been help responsible for their inaction. http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landlord-fined-30k-for-tenants-actions-217217.html

While society does not owe a person "a better life" a landlord may be held responsible for its inaction. If a landlord does all in its power then it may be fine but to sit by while one tenant acts in such a way as to harm another may very well leave the landlord open to a claim.

That's a valid comparison. Thank you.

My point remains, however, that essentially you and I, as taxpayers, are the landlords.

Pro Hoc Vice

Steve wrote: »

That's a valid comparison. Thank you.

My point remains, however, that essentially you and I, as taxpayers, are the landlords.

Yes and as taxpayers I want tenants to be treated with respect and not have a council washing it's hands because it's easy. Also as tax payer I want the public housing stock to be protected, it would be my guess antisocial tenants often damage property.

Steve

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Yes and as taxpayers I want tenants to be treated with respect and not have a council washing it's hands because it's easy. Also as tax payer I want the public housing stock to be protected, it would be my guess antisocial tenants often damage property.

I agree.

The problem remains that if you evict them from point A, the only option is to inflict them on a similar tenant in point B.

No win scenario.

Sapphire07

Steve wrote: »

What makes you think that?

If you rent from a private landlord they are not responsible for the environment outside of what they rent to you.

I fully sympathise with your situation, and I would be delighted to see them being turfed out of accommodation that they are paying little or nothing for and put in prison etc but you are also availing of the same system they are and that was paid for by myself and other tax paying individuals....!

Again I sympathise, however your sense of 'entitlement' and 'society owes me a better life' is disheartening.

you dont know my personal situation so saying things like that is not helpful i am disabled so not able to work . if i had choices i would have taken them . but life has sent me on a different path . maybe you should not be so quick to judge

Steve

Sapphire07 wrote: »

you dont know my personal situation so saying things like that is not helpful i am disabled so not able to work . if i had choices i would have taken them . but life has sent me on a different path . maybe you should not be so quick to judge

You are right, my apologies.

Modern society in general just seems to have a lot more take than give.

Sapphire07

Steve wrote: »

You are right, my apologies.

Modern society in general just seems to have a lot more take than give.

apology accepted thank you . i do know what you mean . this neighbour has 10 children and minds them id say 5% of the time too busy spending her child benefit on makeup hair dos and all the rest.