Importance of Farm Safety - Mother Attacked by Cow

Seaba

Hi All,

I just said I would post this in the hope that no one becomes the slightest bit complacent about farm safety, especially around animals, and in particular cows.

First of all I just want to say my mother (66 years old) is completely unharmed but she was attacked yesterday in the 'field around the house' by a cow. This Limousin (PAM) 2nd calver, calved about 10 days ago and was in the field around the house, on bare grass, just so she wouldn't get a big bag of milk.

My mum walked over to see my Dad in the field, they chatted and walked back together to the house. They stopped off at a small shed while Dad did something. Mam saw the cow 5 - 10 yards behind her but took no real notice as she was eating grass. The calf was no where near them. Next thing Mam heard this grunt and saw the cow charging at her, she shouted at the cow, which stopped her for a second, but she came at her again. Dad was very close by so he ran and threw a bucket at the cow and managed to get her away. As I said Mam was completely unharmed but very shaken up. Only for Dad was there she was in real trouble.

The cow herself, as a heifer, was one of the quietest heifers we ever had. Myself and Dad were saying how nice it was going to be having a quiet one around the place. However, as happens a lot, when she calved she changed. Her mother is not the quietest but this heifer was so quiet.

We are going to get rid of the cow as there was no obvious reason for the cow to charge - it would have been understandable if we were trying to take the calf or something.

I suppose the reason I am posting this is to try to help ensure it doesn't happen to anyone else. If Dad wasn't there, Mam was in trouble. I hate to think what would happen if my wife and kids wandered around the house not knowing the cow was there (I always tell her anyway and she is the first to ask if there is any cow "around the house"). Even myself or Dad if we were not fully alert.

Dad, for the first time ever, this year, said that dealing with animals has now become dangerous (he was brought up in an age where you could milk a cow in the field). You cannot be too careful. A cow might be quiet for you (as many are with Dad as he seems them regularly) but you cannot ever thrust them and even though she may seem fine with you it's only when they attack a family/neighbour do you really realise how dangerous and unpredictable they are.

Thanks.

_Brian

Chap who works for me just back and missed two weeks work from cow attack at calving.

Turned his back to leave the calving pen and she ran and hit him in the back with her head, he fell at the railing and was able to squeeze out under it, lucky thing he said as cow was on top of him and banging of the steel. If it were a wall he reckons she'd have killed him.

Stock are dangerous, your Mam was lucky there was someone there to help her.

cbb1982

Thank God your Mother is ok it was a close escape. Farms are a very dangerous place o have a 3 yr old obseased with animals and tractors you can't be too careful with them.

volchitsa

First, I'm relieved your mum is ok, Seaba.
I just wanted to ask (I'm not a farming person though my grandparents had a farm so I spent a lot of time on farms as a kid) why you think animals are more dangerous now : is it because of mechanization, that cows are less used to be being handled?

When I was small, in the 70s, milking parlours were commonplace for all professional farms, and that's a while ago now, so I'm wondering what's changed so much?

(Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm just curious)

Seaba

I'm no expert either Volchitsa but, in general, as you say cattle and cows in particular are not being 'handled' as much as in previous times. Many farmers, especially sucklers like ourselves, are working part time and don't see/walk through the cattle as often as they would like.

In saying that on our small farm, Dad walks through them every morning and evening. My mother obviously doesn't, however she would have passed this cow a good few times previously and nothing. She did say however that in previous times she always carried a stick. She didn't this time as Dad was right beside her.

I know there is more emphasis on this now but I also think, and this is only my opinion, that the breeding programmes in place by pedigree breeders, AI stations, rarely have docility high up the list of desirable characteristics in a bull. Just looking at the docility of PAM on the ICBF site and he is -0.11 when the breed average is -0.06: 2 stars within the breed, 1 star among all breeds. That should have been an indication for us, and I nearly always check this figure but it is not always reliable and PAM is renowned as a good maternal bull by all AI men (even though his figures don't always back this up)

Kovu

Sorry to hear about your mother Seaba, hopefully it won't affect her too much.

Have two PAM cows here, one I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw her, the other I was hanging out of her neck scratching her not half an hour ago
But the wild one had a wild mother and the quiet one had a mother who you could do anything to and she wouldn't budge an inch. I'd always have more trust in a cow if her mother was quiet, quiet cattle from wilder dams can spook or get excited and act completely different if provoked.
In saying that though I am very wary of all cows in fields with fairly new calves, especially if the calf isn't in sight of the cow. They always seem to forget that the calf is hidden away and are volatile enough, whereas if the calf is standing between you and the cow it's rare for them to do anything out of the ordinary.

Seaba

Kovu wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your mother Seaba, hopefully it won't affect her too much.

Have two PAM cows here, one I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw her, the other I was hanging out of her neck scratching her not half an hour ago
But the wild one had a wild mother and the quiet one had a mother who you could do anything to and she wouldn't budge an inch. I'd always have more trust in a cow if her mother was quiet, quiet cattle from wilder dams can spook or get excited and act completely different if provoked.
In saying that though I am very wary of all cows in fields with fairly new calves, especially if the calf isn't in sight of the cow. They always seem to forget that the calf is hidden away and are volatile enough, whereas if the calf is standing between you and the cow it's rare for them to do anything out of the ordinary.

Definitely agree with this Kovu.
Looking back, all of our 'wild' cows have come from 'wild' mothers. Dad was terrible for bulling good heifers regardless of what the mother was like. This year I convinced him, although he was coming round to the idea himself, to cull our wildest cows - 3 went last month, one in a few months and now this "lady"! It's just not worth keeping them. Buy in a few dry stock instead, or source quiet cows, until you can breed your own replacements.
Also this website is great for getting a heads up on certain bulls - the Limousin FL21 Arita - Ben, for example, has "docility issues" to say the least.

volchitsa

Seaba wrote: »

I'm no expert either Volchitsa but, in general, as you say cattle and cows in particular are not being 'handled' as much as in previous times. Many farmers, especially sucklers like ourselves, are working part time and don't see/walk through the cattle as often as they would like.

In saying that on our small farm, Dad walks through them every morning and evening. My mother obviously doesn't, however she would have passed this cow a good few times previously and nothing. She did say however that in previous times she always carried a stick. She didn't this time as Dad was right beside her.

I know there is more emphasis on this now but I also think, and this is only my opinion, that the breeding programmes in place by pedigree breeders, AI stations, rarely have docility high up the list of desirable characteristics in a bull. Just looking at the docility of PAM on the ICBF site and he is -0.11 when the breed average is -0.06: 2 stars within the breed, 1 star among all breeds. That should have been an indication for us, and I nearly always check this figure but it is not always reliable and PAM is renowned as a good maternal bull by all AI men (even though his figures don't always back this up)

The breeding program, you're right that definitely makes sense. When bulls had to be handled for breeding it would have been too dangerous to use the most aggressive ones, no matter what their other qualities. It's like breeding from aggressive dogs isn't it? (I mean their character, not any particular breed.)

And I remember hearing that back when horses were used for farm work, French horses were traditionally more docile than English ones, because selling a difficult one off for horse meat was always an option for French farmers - I think horse meat was a delicacy, and more valuable than beef, though I'm not sure about that, but it would have been worth at least as much as beef for sure.

(I love this site, there's so much on it I would never normally come across otherwise!)

FortySeven

Should you not have better health and safety policies in place? You say yourself that the animals are more dangerous yet here you are with a response of throwing a bucket?

Someone could have been killed. Buckets were thrown. Get rid of the cow and hope the next one will be different?

Hope is not a good policy.

volchitsa

By the way, what does PAM mean please?

I know what Limousin is, it's those white cows isn't it?
Though I remember my uncles talking about what I heard as "Charlie Cows" which are also white, and which I've since discovered is spelled Charolais, and I suppose those are also French cows, but I don't know if they're similar or not.

Kovu

FortySeven wrote: »

Should you not have better health and safety policies in place? You say yourself that the animals are more dangerous yet here you are with a response of throwing a bucket?

Someone could have been killed. Buckets were thrown. Get rid of the cow and hope the next one will be different?

Hope is not a good policy.

The animal had shown no signs of aggression in the previous four years or so, why would they assume any different that day when in the field?
The bucket was probably what was in the fathers hand at the time, if something like that happens in front of you, you're not going to tell the cow to stop a second and hang on until you get a better item to throw at her.

FortySeven

Kovu wrote: »

The animal had shown no signs of aggression in the previous four years or so, why would they assume any different that day when in the field?
The bucket was probably what was in the fathers hand at the time, if something like that happens in front of you, you're not going to tell the cow to stop a second and hang on until you get a better item to throw at her.

I'm not a farmer but I know a mother with calf can turn at any time. Risks should be planned and mitigated for.

Ah, sure, it's never happened before is not a reasonable risk assessment.

pedigree 6

FortySeven wrote: »

Should you not have better health and safety policies in place? You say yourself that the animals are more dangerous yet here you are with a response of throwing a bucket?

Someone could have been killed. Buckets were thrown. Get rid of the cow and hope the next one will be different?

Hope is not a good policy.

Yea you're right they should never keep any livestock ever again.:P
Look this was the first sign of any aggression that the animal showed.
What the op was trying to do was warn people not to be complacent around any animals.

That should include walkers, ramblers, anyone that enters a field of animals.

pedigree 6

FortySeven wrote: »

I'm not a farmer but I know a mother with calf can turn at any time. Risks should be planned and mitigated for.

Ah, sure, it's never happened before is not a reasonable risk assessment.

Clearly have never dealt with animals. Do you even have a dog or cat?

Kovu

FortySeven wrote: »

I'm not a farmer but I know a mother with calf can turn at any time. Risks should be planned and mitigated for.

Ah, sure, it's never happened before is not a reasonable risk assessment.

If we were never to enter a field with a cow and calf there'd never be any stock moved in the country, ntohing could be tagged and a lot of calves would die unnecessarily as they couldn't be treated. It's acceptable or reasonable risk, no one could predict a cow with a 10 day old calf would turn on someone.

Sure I've never crashed the car before but I'd better not drive it again, just in case.

patsy_mccabe

volchitsa wrote: »

By the way, what does PAM mean please?

PAM is the AI (artificial insemination) code for the bull. In this case the father or sire of the cow.

patsy_mccabe

In the last two days here I've seen too near accidents with Cattle. The first was yesterday when loading Cows and calves into a trailer . One cow slipped on a greasy floor and nearly caught me with her leg when she went down. Second one today, AI'ing a heifer in a crush and she backed back and pushed yer man up against a wall.
I see that ICBF are giving only 4% to Docility in the replacement index . It should be a lot higher .

Kovu

volchitsa wrote: »

By the way, what does PAM mean please?

I know what Limousin is, it's those white cows isn't it?
Though I remember my uncles talking about what I heard as "Charlie Cows" which are also white, and which I've since discovered is spelled Charolais, and I suppose those are also French cows, but I don't know if they're similar or not.

Limousins are the red ones with paler areas around their eyes, muzzle, belly and inner legs. Charolais are the white ones.
Patsy has ye told what PAM means

tanko

volchitsa wrote: »

By the way, what does PAM mean please?

I know what Limousin is, it's those white cows isn't it?
Though I remember my uncles talking about what I heard as "Charlie Cows" which are also white, and which I've since discovered is spelled Charolais, and I suppose those are also French cows, but I don't know if they're similar or not.

PAM is the Ai code for the bull, it's full name is Palmares. I've two PAM cows here and they're both pretty feisty. I wouldn't tun my back on them but any cow can be very dangerous after calving. If I remember correctly two women were killed by freshly calved cows in monaghan a couple of years ago in separate incidents.
Seaba, did you have the cow on her own in the field, i would keep another animal with her to keep her calm.

I've made a effort to get rid off animals with poor docility in recent years, got rid of some NSQ and an OEI cow last year because they were hard to handle. The cattle are a lot calmer this year without them.
Limousins are red cows usually but can be black also when crossed eith other breeds. Charolais cattle are generally white and usually are quieter than limousins.
Some strange comments here, it isn't possible to have a six foot concrete wall between a farmer and their cows at all times.

volchitsa

tanko wrote: »

PAM is the Ai code for the bull, it's full name is Palmares. I've two PAM cows here and they're both pretty feisty. I wouldn't tun my back on them but any cow can be very dangerous after calving. If I remember correctly two women were killed by freshly calved cows in monaghan a couple of years ago in separate incidents.
Seaba, did you have the cow on her own in the field, i would keep another animal with her to keep her calm.

I've made a effort to get rid off animals with poor docility in recent years, got rid of some NSQ and an OEI cow last year because they were hard to handle. The cattle are a lot calmer this year without them.
Limousins are red cows usually but can be black also when crossed eith other breeds. Charolais cattle are generally white and usually are quieter than limousins.
Some strange comments here, it isn't possible to have a six foot concrete wall between a farmer and their cows at all times.

General reply to everyone who replied, thanks a lot. I've now googled Limousin and I see I was totally wrong! Deep red coats, not whitish at all. I suppose it was the French name that made me confuse the two.

Different question : this PAM business - are you saying this is a single bull whose name is Palmares? Or is it a code for a kind of bull?

And NSQ and OEI would be code names for other bulls? If that's so, it seems to mean there are only a few bulls being used to sire the national herd now - is that possible?
(Sorry for being so slow on this, you're all very patient!)

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

One cow slipped on a greasy floor and nearly caught me with her leg when she went down.

Jeez that's freaky, literally 1 hour ago I was sorting cows in the yard. Went to go in the shed and leave them off. Cows come barging out against me, one slipped and came my way and nearly pinned me against a gate. Managed to jump out the way but caught my knee on the gate. Was lucky.

FortySeven

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Clearly have never dealt with animals. Do you even have a dog or cat?

Dealt with plenty animals and grew up rural. If you are entering a field you should have better defense than throwing a bucket.

Livestock is unpredictable and complacency gets people killed. More attention should be paid, especially around mothers with young.

patsy_mccabe

It's always a great feeling when you get rid of mad cows.

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

FortySeven wrote: »

Dealt with plenty animals and grew up rural. If you are entering a field you should have better defense than throwing a bucket.

Livestock is unpredictable and complacency gets people killed. More attention should be paid, especially around mothers with young.

What do you recommend to have on hand to stop an animal weighing 800kg ploughing you into the ground?

Mrs cockett

Fair play to the auld lad, he was quick with the bucket and it done the trick in this case

patsy_mccabe

For those that can still run, an electric fence is great in a field. Once you can get behind it, it offers great protection. Cattle are a lot bigger too than they were years ago .

tanko

volchitsa wrote: »

General reply to everyone who replied, thanks a lot. I've now googled Limousin and I see I was totally wrong! Deep red coats, not whitish at all. I suppose it was the French name that made me confuse the two.

Different question : this PAM business - are you saying this is a single bull whose name is Palmares? Or is it a code for a kind of bull?

And NSQ and OEI would be code names for other bulls? If that's so, it seems to mean there are only a few bulls being used to sire the national herd now - is that possible?
(Sorry for being so slow on this, you're all very patient!)

Yeah, PAM was a single bull, he was in an irish Ai station, he fathered between 25 and 30 thousand calves in ireland I think. NSQ and OEI are the codes for two single french bulls. All Ai Bulls hace a code.
Only about 25% of calves born on beef farms are sired by Ai Bulls, the rest are sired by a stock bull which lives in the farm.
There could be several hundred Bulls available to farmers from Ai companies at any one time.

whelan2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

It's always a great feeling when you get rid of mad cows.

Ther's always another one to take their place

Melodeon

volchitsa wrote: »

General reply to everyone who replied, thanks a lot. I've now googled Limousin and I see I was totally wrong! Deep red coats, not whitish at all. I suppose it was the French name that made me confuse the two.

Different question : this PAM business - are you saying this is a single bull whose name is Palmares? Or is it a code for a kind of bull?

And NSQ and OEI would be code names for other bulls? If that's so, it seems to mean there are only a few bulls being used to sire the national herd now - is that possible?
(Sorry for being so slow on this, you're all very patient!)

The 3-letter code (ABC, XYZ, etc), is the shorthand used by the Artificial Insemination company to identify the bull.
In this case PAM is a bull called Palmares who is owned by Dovea Genetics.
His semen is supplied/distributed by them , and is used to sire far more calves than he could possibly do by natural service.
Here's his data:
https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/108379252

pedigree 6

FortySeven wrote: »

Dealt with plenty animals and grew up rural. If you are entering a field you should have better defense than throwing a bucket.

Livestock is unpredictable and complacency gets people killed. More attention should be paid, especially around mothers with young.

I think attention is paid to livestock (mostly) and all the op was trying to do was reinforce that of course attention should be paid to livestock.

You're dead right that complacency gets people killed.:(
But freak accidents do happen as well otherwise we would never ride horses or keep any livestock.
I was going to say carry a stick into a field but cattle seeing a stick would usually run away from you and when checking cattle that might not allow you to get close enough. Then when moving cattle it's easier to move cattle with them following you than you trying to run after them with a stick.
Look we usually know our livestock and whether to carry a stick or not but accidents won't be eliminated from dealing with livestock.

RobertKK

About 25 years ago so, my mother was bringing in the cows to milk, there was this very quiet hereford cow that was a good milker, when bringing her in one evening the cow took a notion and knocked her over and started to puck her.
She was on her own apart from the dog which was over the field rounding up the rest of the animals, she called the dog and he came running and got the cow away from her.
She was not badly hurt but always said only for the dog she could have been killed. The cow didn't last long as she was sent to the factory for the trouble she caused.
My father said he would never have guessed the cow that did it given her normal temperament was very placid.
Sometimes cattle can take notions, become playful which makes them dangerous.
So to the OP, your story brought back memories and it is a good warning for everyone. Thankfully your mother was uninjured.

volchitsa

tanko wrote: »

Yeah, PAM was a single bull, he was in an irish Ai station, he fathered between 25 and 30 thousand calves in ireland I think. NSQ and OEI are the codes for two single french bulls. All Ai Bulls hace a code.
Only about 25% of calves born on beef farms are sired by Ai Bulls, the rest are sired by a stock bull which lives in the farm.
There could be several hundred Bulls available to farmers from Ai companies at any one time.

25 000 calves seems like a huge number, and I imagine that is only beef cattle, and possibly only with certain breeds for the females too - so does that not reduce the overall genetic variation available for future generations?


---

To Melodeon : Thanks for the link, that level of detail is amazing. (Naively, when I saw "click to view" I was hoping for a photo, but apparently farmers don't need pix these days, being very scientific I suppose!)

Limestone Cowboy

tanko wrote: »

Yeah, PAM was a single bull, he was in an irish Ai station, he fathered between 25 and 30 thousand calves in ireland I think. NSQ and OEI are the codes for two single french bulls. All Ai Bulls hace a code.
Only about 25% of calves born on beef farms are sired by Ai Bulls, the rest are sired by a stock bull which lives in the farm.
There could be several hundred Bulls available to farmers from Ai companies at any one time.

Even the mention of OEI sends a shiver up my spine, had the two wildest calves I have ever seen by him. Was never as happy as the day they were cashed in.

_Brian

Mrs cockett wrote: »

Fair play to the auld lad, he was quick with the bucket and it done the trick in this case

Often the day is saved by quick thinking and cool hand rather than anything brute force..

Reminds me of my nephew, he was maybe 3 and at my grand uncles house.. Anyhow he made a dart for the road when nobody but the granduncle was watching, man in his 70's with limp from polio was never going to catch him.. Takes box of smokes out of his pocket and threw them over the childs head - wee lad stopped to investigate and was easy picked up but was at road edge at that stage, very close thing..

greysides

FortySeven wrote: »

Dealt with plenty animals and grew up rural. If you are entering a field you should have better defense than throwing a bucket.

Livestock is unpredictable and complacency gets people killed. More attention should be paid, especially around mothers with young.

Mod:
Your point has been made, it is much the same tune as everyone has been singing, including the OP.