Dating a member of the travelling community?

Under_Graduate

Well, just to clarify, I'm not yet.

But it's like this.
I've been training with this girls father, who is a settled traveler.
He's a totally cool guy, from the experience I've had with him thus far, and by reputation, I've heard nothing but good things.

He himself is an excellent weight lifter and experienced boxer, so he's been real helpful and cordial in helping me with my own training.

My own background.
I'm a normal dude, both my parents were teachers, and I was raised with education being the priority, so I did well in that capacity - something which I credit my parents for, and value personally.
However, later in life, sport played an increasingly important role, and at present, I'm concentrating on boxing and weightlifting.

Anyways - that's how I came into contact with this dude.
Now, he has a number of kids, and, his daughter, one in particular, is gorgeous.
Legitimately.

Now, I raise the question without actually having "gone there" yet, as I'm extremely tentative as to whether it's something I should approach at all.

Firstly, I socialize regularly, and meet attractive girls all the time.
i.e. I have little issue hooking up. I speak well, I dress well, and am in excellent shape - so girls find me attractive.

Myself and this traveler girl have shared some long looks, but I haven't initiated a conversation with her, purely because, I'm wholly unsure as to how her father would react to that.

Now you might say, "how do you know she's even interested in you?".
I know, trust me.
If I made a play for her, I wouldn't doubt my success.
The way she says "hi" to me, clearly indicates she's interested.

"Reading into it too much etc", I know this is cyber space so, it's always a little difficult to glean a persons true disposition, but.... my success is not what I'm questioning here.

It's the potential fall out, if I were to make that play.

Entirely different culture.
Plus, a guy in the gym told me he just spoke with one of the dudes daughters before, asked her her age or something, and the dude went ape on him.
Basically confronted him physically.

And this girl in particular, it's clear as day, she's the apple of her fathers eye, and I can understand why.
Like I said, she's gorgeous.

So anyways - does anyone have the remotest bit of experience with this type of thing?
Known a friend who's dated a traveler perhaps, and how did it pan out?

PS - I'm probably a little older than she is at 30, but I normally hook up with younger girls anyways.
I reckon she's about 20, which is nothing new to me.

Renegade Mechanic

'Plus, a guy in the gym told me he just spoke with one of the dudes daughters before, asked her her age or something, and the dude went ape on him.
Basically confronted him physically.'

You've answered yer own question, OP. Let sleeping dogs lie, as the saying goes.
If you wish to continue training with this man, don't bother with his daughter.

Xyzforsure

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

'Plus, a guy in the gym told me he just spoke with one of the dudes daughters before, asked her her age or something, and the dude went ape on him.
Basically confronted him physically.'

You've answered yer own question, OP. Let sleeping dogs lie, as the saying goes.
If you wish to continue training with this man, don't bother with his daughter.

Ask her out on a date. Simple.
Her father clearly liked you which aint important but helps.
If you and her click nothing else matters.

Givepuzzles

Avoid. Imagine you don't like her after one date. I don't fancy explaining that yo daddy. It's a very very different culture.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Oh god don't ask her out directly. Talk to the dad first I'd say, and only if you see it going somewhere serious (have you even spoken to her or is the attraction all physical?). A lot of travellers who get on grand with country people would draw the line at their child being in a relationship with one, so be prepared for that.

Speaking in generalisations, it's unlikely to say the least that this girl will be interested in casual dating or sex, like you say it's a different culture, be honest with yourself about what you're looking for and if it's worth the potential fall out. Travellers and country people fall in love and end up together pretty frequently, but from what you've posted it seems like your physical attraction is clouding your judgement.

xzanti

If it's something serious you're looking for i.e. marriage. Then go for it, but ask her Dad first.

I think you have to prove yourself to the family before they'll allow you to get close to the girl.

Their culture doesn't really go for the whole 'Netflix and Chill' route afaik.

Best of luck.

Under_Graduate

xzanti wrote: »

If it's something serious you're looking for i.e. marriage. Then go for it, but ask her Dad first.

I think you have to prove yourself to the family before they'll allow you to get close to the girl.

Their culture doesn't really go for the whole 'Netflix and Chill' route afaik.

Best of luck.

Pffff, marriage?
I don't really think that far ahead.

And that's it.
Their dad does like me and he's seen me come on in bounds with his boxing instruction.
I know in their culture, that's what it would take for them to consider an "outsider", as it were.
Someone who excels in combat sports would hold appeal for them.

And of course not.
I'm not in the habit of asking anyone out directly, not unless there's been significant physical interaction previous to that.

Even crossing the line of engaging her in conversation.... is a big line to cross, given the circumstances, because it clearly denotes interest, and her father hasn't seen that from me yet.
For all he knows, I might be pretty much oblivious to her - that's certainly the sense I've tried to give him so far.

Keeping it at a "hello", and throwing in the occasional interested behavioral queue, is as far as it's gone so far.

But maybe as I continue to be around them, tensions begin to mount - that's where my concern would come into play.

strandroad

Under_Graduate wrote: »

PS - I'm probably a little older than she is at 30, but I normally hook up with younger girls anyways.
I reckon she's about 20, which is nothing new to me.

If it's just to hook up, forget it. You'll be in trouble with her father and if she's so cherished as you say you won't get what you want anyway.
If you're more serious, I'd broach it with her father in general terms, as in asking him if it's acceptable for girls to date settled people and from his reaction you'll be able to gauge what he thinks.
I wouldn't go there unless she's really one in a million for you.

Givepuzzles

What would your parents think? Would your family accept her?

If you are not thinking marriage then definitely don't go there

The Young Wan

Leave it. She deserves someone who can treat her, and her culture, with respect. From your messages, it's clear you're not the man for this.

You say you have much success with women, go and concentrate on them instead. The "hook up and hide" situation you're looking for here with her is not acceptable in the Traveller community, and will not be well received by her father, with whom you need a good relationship.

retro:electro

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Pffff, marriage?
I don't really think that far ahead.

And that's it.
Their dad does like me and he's seen me come on in bounds with his boxing instruction.
I know in their culture, that's what it would take for them to consider an "outsider", as it were.
Someone who excels in combat sports would hold appeal for them.

And of course not.
I'm not in the habit of asking anyone out directly, not unless there's been significant physical interaction previous to that.

Even crossing the line of engaging her in conversation.... is a big line to cross, given the circumstances, because it clearly denotes interest, and her father hasn't seen that from me yet.
For all he knows, I might be pretty much oblivious to her - that's certainly the sense I've tried to give him so far.

Keeping it at a "hello", and throwing in the occasional interested behavioral queue, is as far as it's gone so far.

But maybe as I continue to be around them, tensions begin to mount - that's where my concern would come into play.

You might not be thinking about marriage, but she will be. I work with a lot of travellers and they don't causally date like settled people do, once you've asked her out in her mind you've put the ring on her finger there and then, and that's no exaggeration. Unless you're serious about her, and I don't see how you could be since you've never even had a conversation with her, I would avoid this situation ever materialising.

Under_Graduate

once you've asked her out in her mind you've put the ring on her finger there and then

Wut??

She's an attractive young girl.
You mean to tell me she doesn't want to explore and experiment, like all attractive young girls like to do?
She might be of traveler heritage, but she's still human, and vulnerable to human impulses.

Can anyone second the quote text?
My natural response would be to interpret that as an exaggeration.

FortySeven

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Wut??

She's an attractive young girl.
You mean to tell me she doesn't want to explore and experiment, like all attractive young girls like to do?
She might be of traveler heritage, but she's still human, and vulnerable to human impulses.

Can anyone second the quote text?
My natural response would be to interpret that as an exaggeration.

Very religious, very old fashioned morality, not likely to have pre marital sex and risks being shunned by family if she does.

Daddy will give you a boxing lesson should you try it. If you're not interested in marriage, give this one a miss.

Seems a bit shallow to be so besotted with someone just because of how they look. You've never even spoken to her.

Renegade Mechanic

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Wut??

She's an attractive young girl.
You mean to tell me she doesn't want to explore and experiment, like all attractive young girls like to do?
She might be of traveler heritage, but she's still human, and vulnerable to human impulses.

Can anyone second the quote text?
My natural response would be to interpret that as an exaggeration.

The words "It's in their culture" don't just refer to road blocking sulkie races, OP.
Family ties are biblically strong in traveller culture and are one thing you do not muck about with...

Your casual hook up will have to wait for another person I'm afraid. You'll be unbelievably hard pushed to find a traveller woman interested in one, and harder pushed still, to find an agreeable father...

I'd move on, but that's just me.

retro:electro

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Wut??

She's an attractive young girl.
You mean to tell me she doesn't want to explore and experiment, like all attractive young girls like to do?
She might be of traveler heritage, but she's still human, and vulnerable to human impulses.

Can anyone second the quote text?
My natural response would be to interpret that as an exaggeration.

I really think you are approaching the situation with completely the wrong attitude. Yes they can be very attractive, a lot of them have amazing bodies, and they don't mind showing them off. But this is where it ends, most of them are devoted to Catholicism and while they may dress revealing, they have no intention of having any kind of casual relationship just for fun. Asking her father for his permission to casually date his daughter is in his mind, you asking can you borrow her for a bit of careless fun without the intention of ever getting serious.

batmanrobin

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Pffff, marriage?
I don't really think that far ahead.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you're thinking past 6 inches.

It's a whole other culture and one you need to be respectful of. On top of that she's only 20 and, again, given the culture, might have limited to no experience with men.

If all you're after is a casual shag, why not try one of the many women who you apparently could get.

If you're looking for a relationship, then speak (and I'm loathe to say this as it's the 21st century) to her father first and suss out how he feels.

Don't go into this like a bull in a china shop. Bit of sensitivity is required.

Also, sometimes a hello is just a hello. I've had men mistake my friendliness and politeness as interest when in actual fact I had zero interest in them.

ivytwine

OP just wondering are you Irish, because of the way you write and the way you seem to be unaware of the cultural divide here.

I'm completely seconding what has been said here. I'm a settled person and knew a lot of travellers growing up, went to school with them and got on very well with them for the most part.

It's a very different culture. You already know this girls dad won't like it. He sounds very protective as it is.

Virginity is still valued in the culture, the double standard between men and women having casual sex still prevails, and marriage is the be all and end all. In fact a good friend of mine dated a traveller boy (it's more acceptable for them to date casually because of course it is) and it wasn't long before he started talking marriage and freaking her out. When she broke it off she got abuse for being a "slut". This was only about 10 years ago if that helps.

Again in school we had sex education and one of the few traveller girls who'd made it as far as fifth year was horrified at the idea of casual sex, or even sex outside marriage.

She won't want casual. You will. Worst case scenario (and not unlikely) her dad will lose it and you'll lose a mate and your club.

I don't think you even like this girl apart from physically, and tbh I don't think it's worth the hassle.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Having worked with travellers too I'd second what Anna says OP. A modern young Irish person would be taken aback at how innocent and sheltered even married travellers can be about the ways of the world.

In a large section of traveller society (I'd say the majority), what you see as enjoyable experimentation would leave her "ruined" in the eyes of prospective husbands. Leave her alone. Marriage and family are the be all and end all in the traveller community, freedom of sexual expression isn't seen as important or desirable.

And if her dad gets even a whiff of the attitude that's coming off this thread, forget about it.

Under_Graduate

Pfff - yeah I'm Irish but, never really engaged in Irish culture, and have lived outside Ireland since I was 21.

Catholicism you say.....?

Really?

I suppose I shouldn't air my views about religion around them then.
I probably shouldn't air them here even.

And - as for the traveler culture, I mean, I knew of travelers growing up, but had the sum total of zero interaction with them, like ever.
And then went to college and forgot they existed.
And then left Ireland, and when I returned, didn't even know the guys in my club were travelers until about 3 months in they were talking about it amongst themselves, regarding bare knuckle boxing etc.

Wow - funny considering all this information, where she might be coming from, thought process wise.

endacl

Based on attitutude expressed in various of your other threads, OP, I'd just steer clear of people altogether. Just not worth the risk..,

retro:electro

Op, your posts are coming across quite condescending and sanctimonious. If I were you I wouldn't take this situation any further. You really have no clue what you could be getting yourself into.

Big Bag of Chips

My husband works with travellers. It's not unusual for them to be married at 16. It's also not unusual for the marriage to be arranged for them.

There is a slow shift away from the traditional culture and more of the young people (mainly girls, the boys are still very traditional traveller men) branching out, staying in education, not wanting to get married at 16, and have a baby within a year. Some of the young people (girls) are managing to do it, but not without resistance from their families. One girl my husband works with was married by 16 (missed her leaving cert exam in favour of her wedding day) had 3 kids before she was 20 and left the husband because he was abusive to her. Some of her own family have disowned her because she broke the promise she made in front of God. Some of the women in her family will have been putting up with physical abuse for 30/40 years, and would think it is almost "part of their culture".

If her father physically confronted someone for chatting to his daughter, imagine how he'd feel about a 30 year old (very old to be single in traveller culture) making a play for his daughter with no intention of sticking around for the long term. Just there because she's gorgeous.

Try strike up a conversation with her, other than "hello". She might be a head wrecker. You might have absolutely nothing in common, nothing to talk about. Her father might turn your training more physical! But I think asking her out without ever having spoken to her, whilst you work so closely with her father, is a stupid idea.

Regardless of whether she's a traveller or not!

strandroad

TBH you're coming across as quite ignorant and uncaring. I't quite common knowledge what traveller culture is like in terms of relationships and yes it could use some progressive thought but it won't be through you hooking up with their girls. Back off...

ivytwine

I just want to add OP that sure religion is irrelevant to you, it is to me too, and a lot of Boardsies.

To her, it's almost certainly relevant.

Same with pre marital sex, same as casual relationships.

I'd liken it (and apologies if I offend anyone in advance) to you chancing your arm with a devout Muslim girl. She may dress differently but the mores are not dissimilar. Yeah you're not wrong, it's ridiculous in 2016 but having sex with her won't change her culture, and might actually be quite damaging to her prospects in that culture. And to do that just because it appears you can't bear to leave an attractive woman alone in peace is pretty immature for a 30 year old.

uck51js9zml2yt

Its not all bad news

A relation of mine is married to a settled traveller.

Her father set the ground rules. She was home by a certain time in the evening, no exceptions. They could spend the night together when they were married and not before.
When he proposed, h had to ask her father for permission, though he asked her first:)

Upshot is, they are now married with 2 kids and she's a great wife.

As for the wedding . It was small, immediate family only and very low key.
Registry Office and a restaurant afterwards.

If you like her, go for it. the worst that can happen is that she knocks you back. The best is that you have to meet her family first.:)

If you're wanting a hook up and not planning on marrying the girl, leave her alone.

KikiDee

Hello OP,

Do this girly a favour and don't go there. Go after the other women you so easily can get. Is getting your leg over honestly worth all the drama you could potentially create by pursuing this?

Big Bag of Chips

Also be aware that if you do decide to go there, you will not just be taking on her father, you will be taking on the whole family. His brothers, in-laws, cousins, sons. Someone else might already be lined up for her, so you'll also be taking them and their extended family on!

Also if you feel it's your duty to help a young attractive girl experiment and have a bit of fun then please, don't just think of yourself but think of what it might mean for her future , and for the opinion her community will have of her when you move on to the next stunner. You genuinely don't seem to understand much about the kind of situation you could be getting in to, nor do you seem too interested in finding out. So just leave it. Believe it or not, she'll be alright for having not had the pleasure of you "experimenting" with her, and her life won't be any emptier for not having the experience

freshpopcorn

Without getting into to much detail in my experience members of the travelling community have very different valuers regarding getting married/starting a family. Settled people are often rejected when it comes to marrying. They tend to get engaged after a very short relationship and get married shortly after. Also even settled travellers can end back up out on the road and travelling onces their married because ones she's married it's your job to look after her.
Also married life tends to be different. You'd be the bread winner and she'd stay at home looking after the kids. You'd also be taking on her family and they tend to stick together. There's none of this he's my toxic brother in law onces your in the family. Your do your bit.

P.S I don't mean to stereotype or be anti traveller I'm just speaking from my experience.

racso1975

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Pffff, marriage?
I don't really think that far ahead.

And that's it.
Their dad does like me and he's seen me come on in bounds with his boxing instruction.
I know in their culture, that's what it would take for them to consider an "outsider", as it were.
Someone who excels in combat sports would hold appeal for them.

And of course not.
I'm not in the habit of asking anyone out directly, not unless there's been significant physical interaction previous to that.

Even crossing the line of engaging her in conversation.... is a big line to cross, given the circumstances, because it clearly denotes interest, and her father hasn't seen that from me yet.
For all he knows, I might be pretty much oblivious to her - that's certainly the sense I've tried to give him so far.

Keeping it at a "hello", and throwing in the occasional interested behavioral queue, is as far as it's gone so far.

But maybe as I continue to be around them, tensions begin to mount - that's where my concern would come into play.

Look you have obviously had a lot of luck with women and thats great for you but i am willing to gamble that you never put this much thought into being with one of them.

Plain and simple this is forbidden fruit syndrome. You have a good relationship with the father which has benefited you greatly. You want to risk all that for a shag that possibly, actually in all likelihood, won't happen?

You have the father currently convinced that you have no interest as you stated above. Just leave this itch alone. Walk away and appreciate his tutelage.

racso1975

racso1975 wrote: »

Just leave this itch alone. Walk away and appreciate his tutelage.

This. All cultural issues aside, this man is your sports coach and gives his time voluntarily to help improve your skills.
The fact that you're essentially chasing the ride with his daughter who's 10 years younger than you is highly disrespectful to the man.

Forget the girl and enjoy your training.

ATC110

Do you need your driveway doing?

Merkin

ATC110 wrote: »

Do you need your driveway doing?

Completely inappropriate and unhelpful response. Go and read the charter before posting in PI again.

Merkin

Closed for review.

Merkin

Under_Graduate, this thread is being closed down. You opened a thread on travellers in After Hours a month ago which not only displayed huge disrespect for the travelling community but racist statements that earned you a justified one month ban. Your poor attitude was not tolerated there and it certainly won't be tolerated here.

Your posts to date have resulted in a lot of reported posts. Your attitude stinks and I'm not entirely sure that you're best placed to offer advice to anyone given the whole host of prejudices peppered so casually across your posts.

You're banned for a month and this will be reviewed at a later date.