plans of house

Sligoboy21

My wife and I are looking to build a house down home and starting plans of a house. We saw a beautiful house while on holidays in wexford and took a picture from the road. Is it possible to get see the plans of people's houses from the Internet or how would one go about this thanks

Rackstar

If you go to the local authorities site and search by address you might get it.

Eplanning.ie has links to most local authorities websites and you can search from there.

Search by address and open an application with an address near the house you are looking for, you can view a map in the application and then scroll to where the house you saw was and then click on that application.

Rackstar

Wexford planning site http://planning.wexford.ie/index.php

Bad_alibi

No offence to the OP but this is a major issue I have with the council planning websites.
When you forward your planning to the council they should only upload a copy of the exterior of the home and the house dimensions. It should not show the internal wall layout. Joe public should not be able to download a copy of the internal layout of a persons home.
This has security implications for the home owner down the line and the fact a design a person paid for can easily be ripped off by someone else.

Sligoboy21

I totally agree with you it is wrong and I know I'm asking about getting them on website. The only reason I asked is as stated we liked the look of the house but wondering about the internal layout to see if our lantern all layout would be similar to that.
="Bad_alibi;100332395"]No offence to the OP but this is a major issue I have with the council planning websites.
When you forward your planning to the council they should only upload a copy of the exterior of the home and the house dimensions. It should not show the internal wall layout. Joe public should not be able to download a copy of the internal layout of a persons home.
This has security implications for the home owner down the line and the fact a design a person paid for can easily be ripped off by someone else.[/quote]

Bad_alibi

I'd have not problem with people seeing a house and getting the external layout or likewise if someone wanted to object to a development but I can't see the need for them to know the internal layout.

tedimc

OP - you may not fancy doing this, but it has happened to my mum a few times and I wouldn't class her house as being particularly appealing from outside.

Some people would be chuffed to show you around their house if you asked politely and in the correct way. It could be worth rocking up on a weekend afternoon and just say, we really love your house, would you mind telling us who your architect was, builder, etc. They may invite you in for a nosey.

Dardania

Bad_alibi wrote: »

No offence to the OP but this is a major issue I have with the council planning websites.
When you forward your planning to the council they should only upload a copy of the exterior of the home and the house dimensions. It should not show the internal wall layout. Joe public should not be able to download a copy of the internal layout of a persons home.
This has security implications for the home owner down the line and the fact a design a person paid for can easily be ripped off by someone else.

I can see your point but disagree somewhat...

They have to review against building regs right? So need some form of internal layout.

And the layout internally given doens't need to be detailed up to construction standard...and I'd argue it's getting the construction standard drawings is where the architect's value really shows, not just for the mere internal layout...

RE security concerns - in IT, the phrase "security through obscurity" comes up quite often as an inadaquete security method...you'd be far better making the space secure through actual methods like proper doors and windows...

In the OP's case, they can review someone else's design, and Ireland as a result will have a housing stock that is incrementally better and better as people can improve on each other's designs...

Bad_alibi

Dardania wrote: »

I can see your point but disagree somewhat...

They have to review against building regs right? So need some form of internal layout.

And the layout internally given doens't need to be detailed up to construction standard...and I'd argue it's getting the construction standard drawings is where the architect's value really shows, not just for the mere internal layout...

RE security concerns - in IT, the phrase "security through obscurity" comes up quite often as an inadaquete security method...you'd be far better making the space secure through actual methods like proper doors and windows...

In the OP's case, they can review someone else's design, and Ireland as a result will have a housing stock that is incrementally better and better as people can improve on each other's designs...

You've missed the point I made,

I've no issue with the full current planning pack going to the council as it always has, my issue is when the council are uploading documents they should not upload the internal layout image instead a blank drawing of the internal elevation should only be included on the council planning site for the public to view. You can make whatever observations/objections you want without needing to see the internal layout.

Dardania

Bad_alibi wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

I can see your point but disagree somewhat...

They have to review against building regs right? So need some form of internal layout.

And the layout internally given doens't need to be detailed up to construction standard...and I'd argue it's getting the construction standard drawings is where the architect's value really shows, not just for the mere internal layout...

RE security concerns - in IT, the phrase "security through obscurity" comes up quite often as an inadaquete security method...you'd be far better making the space secure through actual methods like proper doors and windows...

In the OP's case, they can review someone else's design, and Ireland as a result will have a housing stock that is incrementally better and better as people can improve on each other's designs...

You've missed the point I made,

I've no issue with the full current planning pack going to the council as it always has, my issue is when the council are uploading documents they should not upload the internal layout image instead a blank drawing of the internal elevation should only be included on the council planning site for the public to view. You can make whatever observations/objections you want without needing to see the internal layout.

I think I do understand your point -your point is the public don't need to see the internal to make their observations, so why show it publicly?

Your arguments against changing the status quo are:
- could be a secuirty issue for the inhabitants
and
- the architect could get ripped off i.e. their intellectual property

my point is
- it's a good thing for the public to see the internal layout, as it encourages people to develop better and better designs, building on the designs of others...
I certainly used this theory many times in my career, and am always cuyrious to see how people have improved on my own designs (in engineering)
We are collaborative species generally.
And also, for my first planning permission submission lately, I did review a lot of others in the locality to get a feel for the comments made / conditions on them, to pre-empt in my own submission (a garden to driveway conversion, but I would have done the same in the case of a whole dwelling)


Just wondering, why did the status quo come about of the internal layout being uploaded? was it convenience for the planners? Or is there some valid reason people should need to see the internal layout?
I can see why, for sure, in public access buildings e.g. if a shop was being built in my locality, I'd be upset if coffee shop was upsatirs, via a lift, if I'm trying to push a buggy about or in a wheelcahir.

In a one off house...maybe it's of value to allow future submissions bear in mind the comments made by the planners on previous ones?

Metric Tensor

Dardania wrote: »

They have to review against building regs right? So need some form of internal layout.

Just to pick up on this. Planners do not check compliance with the building regulations. That's the job of the professional you employ.

I don't have a problem with the internal layouts being publicly displayed. Architecture by it's nature is always on display and people have being ripping it off (both poorly and well) since a guy in Egypt decided to make his tomb in the shape of a pyramid!

Angry bird

Nonsense. There are umpteen types of planning applications, same standard applies across the board. It is very reasonable for people to know say amount of bedrooms and how they're laid out. This public information to inform people far outweighs concerns re a burglar looking at your house plans. Also if emergency services need quick access to plans...

Dudda

Bad_alibi wrote: »

You've missed the point I made,

I've no issue with the full current planning pack going to the council as it always has, my issue is when the council are uploading documents they should not upload the internal layout image instead a blank drawing of the internal elevation should only be included on the council planning site for the public to view. You can make whatever observations/objections you want without needing to see the internal layout.

Disagree. If a planning application and window at first floor level is overlooking my back garden I want to see the floor plan and know if it's a first floor living room which I'd have a real problem with or if it's a double height space which nobody would ever be able to see out of and is there to only allow natural light into the room below.

Sometimes you do need to know the internal layout.

BryanF

Dardania wrote: »

They have to review against building regs right?
...

Wrong

Dardania

BryanF wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

They have to review against building regs right?
...

Wrong

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

They have to review against building regs right? So need some form of internal layout.

Just to pick up on this. Planners do not check compliance with the building regulations. That's the job of the professional you employ.

Okay - I think I see the distinction - they're the ones that enforce: http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/building-regulations/building-control
So not review. Bad understanding & terminology on my part.

But my point is, if they're going to be the ones enforcing later, they should see the internals at planning stage

Calahonda52

Bad_alibi wrote: »

No offence to the OP but this is a major issue I have with the council planning websites.
When you forward your planning to the council they should only upload a copy of the exterior of the home and the house dimensions. It should not show the internal wall layout. Joe public should not be able to download a copy of the internal layout of a persons home.
This has security implications for the home owner down the line and the fact a design a person paid for can easily be ripped off by someone else.

Two points:
Re the security risk problem, I think you are watching too much CSI or ER or Dexter.
Re the rip off idea I would look at it the other way: for planning application submitters who are worried about their design being ripped off have a abject sense of insecurity.
I look at them all the time for clients and if I see a good set of plans, ( especially ones that show the equipment layout in the dungeon), I get my clients to call the architect up. Equally, I see lots that get the Norton chair treatment.

Give another example:
I am currently going through a rehab programme which involves strengthening the pelvic floor.
I have the 6 or 8 exercise routines from my physio, she showed me the correct technique, however if I want to remind myself of the process, she has each exercise as videos on her website....

Metric Tensor

Dardania wrote: »

Okay - I think I see the distinction - they're the ones that enforce: http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/building-regulations/building-control
So not review. Bad understanding & terminology on my part.

But my point is, if they're going to be the ones enforcing later, they should see the internals at planning stage

The planners are separate from Building Control too. The planners are not involved at any stage with building regulation compliance.

Building Control are involved albeit partially through the nightmare that is BCARS and are not involved at planning stage.

sydthebeat

Dardania wrote: »

Okay - I think I see the distinction - they're the ones that enforce: http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/building-regulations/building-control
So not review. Bad understanding & terminology on my part.

But my point is, if they're going to be the ones enforcing later, they should see the internals at planning stage

as MT says above...

the planning section have NOTHING to do with building regulations.... and quite often give planning permission for designs that do not comply with building regulations...believe it or not.

compliance with regulations is a post planning issue and is first and foremost the responsibility of the client unless passed onto another by contract.

also, its very debatable to say that Building Control section "enforce" the building regulations..... we have a system here of self certification and the vast, vast majority of builds (sorry kceire) are constructed with no involvement from any local authority.

Gumbo

Dardania wrote: »

Okay - I think I see the distinction - they're the ones that enforce: http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/building-regulations/building-control
So not review. Bad understanding & terminology on my part.

But my point is, if they're going to be the ones enforcing later, they should see the internals at planning stage

No offence OP, but your point is mute. Its not your fault, I probably wouldn't understand your line of work either. But this is the thing with the publics perception, that the council approve construction plans, they don't.

The planners make a recommendation to grant or refuse an application. Building Regulations are not even considered during the course of a planning application. The first point that a Building Control Officer will get to see the drawings is at commencement on site stage.

sydthebeat wrote: »

also, its very debatable to say that Building Control section "enforce" the building regulations..... we have a system here of self certification and the vast, vast majority of builds (sorry kceire) are constructed with no involvement from any local authority.

Your off my xmas card list

Metric Tensor

Calahonda52 wrote: »

ones that show the equipment layout in the dungeon

kceire - you might call around to CH's house for an inspection. I'd love to know if his dungeon is Part M compliant!

Dardania

Thanks for the explanation kceire, sydthebeat & metrictensor - sounds quite silo'd within the local authorities RE planning then building control.
But it does create a "good" risk for those submitting the planning application - that if they get the design wrong (with respect to later compliance with the building regs) it jeaprodises the planning application.

In practice, I wonder if, as time goes on, will the local authorities take more interest in the building regs compliance at planning stage - could have avoided issues like the longboat one becoming something for DCC to partially pay for the resolution of?

Gumbo

Dardania wrote: »

In practice, I wonder if, as time goes on, will the local authorities take more interest in the building regs compliance at planning stage - could have avoided issues like the longboat one becoming something for DCC to partially pay for the resolution of?

No, because the planning stage is covered by the Planning & Development Act, and the Building Regulations are covered by the Building Control Act. Theres not a lot of overlap, in fact nothing at all really!

longboat Quay, Priory Hall etc were the jobs of greedy developers, the plans were approved, the fire cert approved based on the fire cert application, but the developer did not build it in accordance with the plans and it was never checked properly by the engineer/architect/surveyor that signed off the building as compliant.

Metric Tensor wrote: »

kceire - you might call around to CH's house for an inspection. I'd love to know if his dungeon is Part M compliant!

I seen him hanging around the Otis building the other day, i've a sneaky suspicion that he knows he is under watch and is bringing himself into compliance

Metric Tensor

Dardania wrote: »

But it does create a "good" risk for those submitting the planning application - that if they get the design wrong (with respect to later compliance with the building regs) it jeaprodises the planning application.

The person doing the design should be competent and know the relevant regulations. That's why people hire professionals to do designs for them. That's why professionals exist in the first place! It's not the planners job to check that a design is compliant with the regulations.

It's not like a school test where you get the design "right" or "wrong." You propose a compliant design to the planners and they assess it's merits with regards to the current view of what constitutes good planning.

Dardania wrote: »

In practice, I wonder if, as time goes on, will the local authorities take more interest in the building regs compliance at planning stage - could have avoided issues like the longboat one becoming something for DCC to partially pay for the resolution of?

Definitely won't happen Dardania - the powers that be have already decided how they want to deal with compliance and the decision has been made that they want to abdicate themselves as much as possible from oversight and responsibility.

If you read up on the BCARs system it was put in place (after priory hall et al.) specifically to put someone else's head in the noose with regards to compliance so that the state is less likely to get "caught."

edit: That's not to disagree with kceire above - this does not excuse the professionals who inspected the building from their responsibility. Part of the problem is that in many cases there was no professional involved after a certain point.

sydthebeat

Dardania wrote: »

In practice, I wonder if, as time goes on, will the local authorities take more interest in the building regs compliance at planning stage

do you honestly think they want to take that responsibility???

if anything the trend in the whole civil service is going the opposite way