80 acres + €10,000 - Ideas?

TheClubMan

Well folks, a friend of mine is due to takeover the farm from his father. The land consists of roughly 80 acres. 60 in one block of which 15 is marginal and 20 in another block down the road from his yard. A lot of the farm could do with reseeding. Fencing and water system may need some upgrading too. The yard consists of a 4 bay slatted shed, 3 bay straw bedded shed, 3 bay hay shed, silage pit and two outbuildings with a loft. He has 10k to play around with and a full time job. He has an interest in beef but is open minded. Any ideas on what he should do?

Willfarman

TheClubMan wrote: »

Well folks, a friend of mine is due to takeover the farm from his father. The land consists of roughly 80 acres. 60 in one block of which 15 is marginal and 20 in another block down the road from his yard. A lot of the farm could do with reseeding. Fencing and water system may need some upgrading too. The yard consists of a 4 bay slatted shed, 3 bay straw bedded shed, 3 bay hay shed, silage pit and two outbuildings with a loft. He has 10k to play around with and a full time job. He has an interest in beef but is open minded. Any ideas on what he should do?

Do what his father was doing. Sounds like he was doing ok.

Sam Kade

Rent it out

Grueller

Sam Kade wrote: »

Rent it out

From a strictly economic point of view, long term lease and harvest the tax relief.

Having said that, I get depressed every time I hear that point of view. The life that I love and aspire to has become a badly paid hobby.

TheClubMan

He doesn't want to rent it out. He wants to have a right go at it and leave his mark on the land. His father had a few sucklers and some sheep but was relying on the cheque from Brussels to make money. He was thinking, dairy calf to beef, going organic and finishing his stock, dairy heifer rearing to lesser extent, pedigree suckler herd etc.

Username John

TheClubMan wrote: »

He doesn't want to rent it out. He wants to have a right go at it and leave his mark on the land. His father had a few sucklers and some sheep but was relying on the cheque from Brussels to make money. He was thinking, dairy calf to beef, going organic and finishing his stock, dairy heifer rearing to lesser extent, pedigree suckler herd etc.

I see the sheep are gone in that list of possibilities?

kk.man

Username John wrote: »

I see the sheep are gone in that list of possibilities?

And they would be his most profitable low investment enterprise currently in farming.

TheClubMan

That's what I said, but he has no interest in sheep whatsoever!

stantheman1979

It sounds like he knows what he wants to do already. Tidy up the land a bit and off he goes.

Sam Kade

TheClubMan wrote: »

He doesn't want to rent it out. He wants to have a right go at it and leave his mark on the land. His father had a few sucklers and some sheep but was relying on the cheque from Brussels to make money. He was thinking, dairy calf to beef, going organic and finishing his stock, dairy heifer rearing to lesser extent, pedigree suckler herd etc.

Maybe do a bit of extensive farming with dry cattle, if he needs to do a lot of reseeding and up grading to keep dry cattle he'll need a wagon load of money which he will probably never again see.

Sam Kade

Grueller wrote: »

From a strictly economic point of view, long term lease and harvest the tax relief.

Having said that, I get depressed every time I hear that point of view. The life that I love and aspire to has become a badly paid hobby.[/QUOTE]Sad but true.

FeelTheBern

TheClubMan wrote: »

He doesn't want to rent it out. He wants to have a right go at it and LEAVE HIS MARK on the land. His father had a few sucklers and some sheep but was relying on the cheque from Brussels to make money. He was thinking, dairy calf to beef, going organic and finishing his stock, dairy heifer rearing to lesser extent, pedigree suckler herd etc.

In this day and age just staying farming and keeping the farm in pretty good shape IS leaving your mark!! My advice would be to tip away for few years at whatever his father was doing and he'll see over time then what he would like to change. Oh, and not get sucked into spending all his spare time and money on farm! Good luck to him.

Bass Reeves

TheClubMan wrote: »

Well folks, a friend of mine is due to takeover the farm from his father. The land consists of roughly 80 acres. 60 in one block of which 15 is marginal and 20 in another block down the road from his yard. A lot of the farm could do with reseeding. Fencing and water system may need some upgrading too. The yard consists of a 4 bay slatted shed, 3 bay straw bedded shed, 3 bay hay shed, silage pit and two outbuildings with a loft. He has 10k to play around with and a full time job. He has an interest in beef but is open minded. Any ideas on what he should do?

I wish I had been so lucky. Forget about reseeding. From now on top all land as it recovers spray it for weeds. Soil sample it and start to correct fertility and ph. Do the fencing and water. When doing water put troughs in middle of fields instead of near ditches this allow you to paddock it very easy.

Go extensive for next few year anyway. I seriously reconsider sheep if he is familar with them he will be sorry when they are gone. I would forget about organics unless he is really into it. He cannot use the slatted shed without adapting it. forget about pedigree ever Tom, Dick and Harry of a young fella is now starting to keep a small pedigree herd. I be slow about dairy heifers as well a lot of these dairy farmers are slow payers as any contractor's or miller will tell you at present.

Calf to beef or store to beef may be an answer. Problem with calf to beef is that he will need more slatted space. On an 80 acre farm he would carry 100 yearling at his ease and housing to finish might be an issue at 10-15/pen depending on pen size. It might be doable with heifers as he could slaughter`50%+ off grass at 18-20 months.

IMO store to beef is more viable. Buy 80 stores late summer early autumn and overwinter on silage only. Out to grass in early March and slaughter off grass in July-Nov. However he will need a good bit of capital. In reality that is not an issue as he could start at the bottom with plain Fr or Jex stores many a man kept going doing that;). Problem is trying to get away from them. If he is doing beef try to keep cattle in as few as bunches as possible to maximize grazing control.

As well sell the slurry tanker and hay bob. Buy a sprayer if he has not got one and a disc mower or a cheap topper in the short term.

As well join GLAS and a discussion group even if not getting BTAP payment.

Muckit

I'd be with Bass. Let him get reseeding out of his head. He will soon realise that 10k is only walking around money.

Just keeping things afloat will be a steep learning curve for the first few years. Baby steps. No major changes.

Get his bps forms in in time every year. Find a good advisor and join GLAS. Join a KT discussion group.

Ignore the know alls and do his own thing. Rome wasn't built in a day. Good luck with it.

Siamsa Sessions

Re leaving his mark on the land: would he consider planting some forestry? We planted hardwoods on some very very marginal land and it's lovely now to see a natural forestry developing 8 years later.

The annual premiums are great for cash flow too. Plus they give you the money to invest in other enterprises.

Just a thought...

TITANIUM.

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Re leaving his mark on the land: would he consider planting some forestry? We planted hardwoods on some very very marginal land and it's lovely now to see a natural forestry developing 8 years later.

The annual premiums are great for cash flow too. Plus they give you the money to invest in other enterprises.

Just a thought...

What's that worth an acre a year?

Sam Kade

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Re leaving his mark on the land: would he consider planting some forestry? We planted hardwoods on some very very marginal land and it's lovely now to see a natural forestry developing 8 years later.

The annual premiums are great for cash flow too. Plus they give you the money to invest in other enterprises.

Just a thought...

What about when it's harvested and it will have to be replanted the owners expense and without any premiums every year? Would you be willing to wait 30 years for an income?

Siamsa Sessions

Sam Kade wrote: »

What about when it's harvested and it will have to be replanted the owners expense and without any premiums every year? Would you be willing to wait 30 years for an income?

That's the usual argument alright. I guess everyone has a different outlook on life and what land-use is all about.

Re premiums: it's currently €200/acre for 15 years.

laoch na mona

Sam Kade wrote: »

What about when it's harvested and it will have to be replanted the owners expense and without any premiums every year? Would you be willing to wait 30 years for an income?

surely you can plan ahead and all going well have a few quid to replant when the time comes

Jack180570

To be fair, forestry would be a good option if the land was heavyish ground and not high quality farming land, probably would consider it if it was not worth more than 5 or 5.5k/acre.

He could plant the very most of it with mostly conifers and keep 10% of it around the house or where there would be potential for sites later on. This way he would be getting his 200e/ac in forestry premium and another 100e/ac in BPS (assuming he has average value entitlements). The forestry premiums would be paid for 15yrs and the BPS for as long as the BPS system continues.

If the ground is good productive forestry ground and mineral soil he could then divide the forest into three management units and begin thinning the first at year 15, second at year 16 and third at year 17. As the thinning would be done on a three year cycle he would have income from the forestry every year. This would smooth out the income from the forestry after the forest premiums end at year 15.

He could then adopt a similar strategy as the crop approaches clearfell by (as conditions and markets allow) by clearfelling at different ages in an effort to restructure the age class of the overall plantation and possibly clearfell say 10ac every two years. He could also influence this at the initial stages by planting different species of trees that would have different ages of maturity.

At the end of the day its a personal choice for him. If like most of us, he likes farming then he will go farming irrespective of the income he will make from it, and he is fully entitled to do that and the best of luck to him.

I totally agree with Bass and Muckit regarding first steps, if he is going farming, soil sample and get the ph, P & K right, spray for weeds and that should take care of the 10k.

Re Organics.. he has only about half the area required to get the max payment under the scheme and my own experience is that you would want to have 100% of the farm at a PH of 6.3 and Index 4 for P&K and all reseeded with clover before joining or else there will not be much grass or production from the farm.

The reality then is that if he wants to make a fair good go of farming he is going to have to put in the time and the work and once investments are made, he will have to stick with it to get the return.

Its time well spent now considering all this before making big decisions. Best of luck to him whatever he chooses.

TheClubMan

Great response Jack. Plenty of good points there. Thanks for that.

lough135

An option that might be worth looking at would be to give someone say 10 acres free of charge for a year or two for tillage or reseeding on the understanding that they fix the PH, P and K and leave it back in grass, that way he gets the whole farm reseeded at minimal cost.
There is a guy near me that does this, he sows oats or barley in it and under sows it with grass but it is mainly rougher ground that needs a bit of work to tidy it up first.