Ecotricity in UK to begin charging

boardzz

Ecotricity have announced they will begin charging once the chargers get a hardware upgrade starting next week. They should all be upgraded by next month.
5 pound for a 20 minute charge.
However if you have your electricity home supply with them, it will remain free forever.

Hopefully Electric Ireland customers can remain getting free charging when ESB ecars begin charging in the future.

KCross

boardzz wrote: »

Hopefully Electric Ireland customers can remain getting free charging when ESB ecars begin charging in the future.

Wouldnt that be unfair to the other electric providers?

AFAIK ESB were given the chargers for free through the EU. Using that to lure customers would be an unfair advantage as the other providers would not be able to provide another charging network.

I'd say the regulator would stop that happening.

mr.dunkey

This will free up the network for people who need it to commute. Ev sales in UK would not be as big if it was not for ECOtricity and its highway. They have done some outstanding work in putting in an electric highway. Of course they should be able to charge for it, its a business. Will stop the PHEV and BYD scourge that happening over there.
Not everyone needs rapids to get around , most use them because they are free and convenient. I have bought lots of cars from UK that have less than 10 rapids on them.

SCPs will still be free, only FCPs effected

KCross

I see from their website some other interesting things:

Using the app to charge your car

Setup

iPhone showing Electric Highway app
Add your car details to the app – so we can show you the pumps relevant to your car
Add a credit card so you just have to use the 3 digit security code on the back whenever you charge up


Find pumps

Lists the 10 closest pumps to you
Tells you the status of each pump – online, offline or in use
Tells you which pumps are compatible with the car you've registered
Provides full atlas and Gazeteer functionality and navigation by Apple Maps to help you find our pumps


Charge your car

Start and stop of charge via app
Payment via app
Only requires entry of credit card security number
Free for registered Ecotricity energy customers
Compatible with all pure EVs, including Nissan LEAF, Renault Zoe, and BMW i3
Compatible with hybrid vehicles, including Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV – but not recommended for these vehicles due to the slow rate of charge


I like the idea that the app tells me the status of the 10 nearest chargers AND what ones are in use. They seem to have implemented real time telemetry. I hope eCars do that!!

Its also interesting that they are alienating the hybrids as £5 for 20mins will be bad value for them. That will be contentious I'd say but alot of the folks on speakev.com seem to complain about the Outlander users so maybe its justified.

DrPhilG

All kicking off about this, similar to how it did here with the proposed charges.

£5 for 20 minutes.

Charging by time rather than consumption.

boardzz

KCross wrote: »

Wouldnt that be unfair to the other electric providers?

AFAIK ESB were given the chargers for free through the EU. Using that to lure customers would be an unfair advantage as the other providers would not be able to provide another charging network.

I'd say the regulator would stop that happening.

Ecotricity were given the same incentives from EU also. Ireland didn't any special treatment.

Mancomb Seepgood

Apparently, you'll need an Android or Apple smartphone to use the app and start a charge. Otherwise you can phone Ecotricity, but they don't currently answer their helpline 24/7. This doesn't seem to be too well thought out.

KCross

I looked back at some of the charges I did in my 24kWh Leaf when I used the ecotricity network and I did a couple of 20min charges and they were from 30-80% and I took on 11.5kWh's and the battery temp was up to the most efficient temperature range so I think 11-12kWh's is close to the max you will get in 20mins unless you are going from 0%

So, £5 for 11kWh's... thats expensive!

SpeakEV is going mental all day with mostly negative comment. I wonder is this just an initial kite flying exercise to see what people think and they'll settle on something less and everyone will feel relieved eventhough it will still be expensive!

Much the same as what eCars are probably going to do to us when they come back with their 2nd round of pricing!

Based on all the commentary it seems to me that you have to have a combination of kWh and time based charging to allow for the different charge rates that cars will have, and to stop hogging.... maybe Xc/kWh for the first,say, 10kWh's and then twice that for every kWh beyond that with a limit of 30mins.... or something to that effect.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

£5 for 20 minutes.

The markup on that is far, far higher than on diesel / petrol :mad:

Scottie99

My first thought, is there anyway around it?
If we know an Ecotricity customer, can you use their details or do you have to provide car docs?

737max

20 minutes; not enough to get a meal in a motorway service station and not enough to get up to a decent level of charge.
I'd be tempted to drop my speed and save the 20 minutes charging. In bigger countries than Ireland I'd slip in to a convoy of lorries travelling at between 90 and 100kmph.
for a journey of up to about 250km you'd still get there in similar time and save the hassle and expense of charging.


...and maybe nudge in under the back bumper of a coach and steal some free internet too

DrPhilG

As crappy as the Ecotricity deal is, the proposed ESB charges were worse!

20 minutes at 30c an hour is €6 which is just over £5, plus the bloody stupid subscription charge!

I have no issue with charges, as it will discourage hogging, but only at a reasonable level.

I know if I were the ESB I'd probably sell off the charging network at this stage.

Investors want profit and companies want return on investment, the Irish government requested the ESB install the network but didn't give a single cent towards it.

If I were people here I'd be far more concerned about the proposed 35% hike on the PSO Levy on our electricity bills but no, people won't protest over this if it's implemented. Only water charges which is a fraction of what we continue to pay for energy in this country !

PSO and Carbon tax is paid for by the tax payer straight to the pockets of private wind energy investors with nothing in return to the tax payer and this is corrupt and wrong but we sit down and ignore this and only the mention of water gets people shouting , sickens me !

I want to be able to use the public network when I need to and I'm willing to pay for the privilege. Perhaps the ESb should allow people to buy shares in the network ?

A 300 km Ev will rarely see the public network but at that point when more 300 Km range models become available then we will see more people buy EV which will put a huge demand on the network eventually as more people take their electrics on much longer trips. So if it cost me the same as diesel for a couple of trips a year I couldn't care less if the other 28,000 kms a year come from my home + work charge point !

737max

Deleted User wrote: »

If I were people here I'd be far more concerned about the proposed 35% hike on the PSO Levy on our electricity bills

Source please. not questioning veracity of claim.

Happy reading.

http://www.cer.ie/docs/001074/CER16152%20PSO%20Levy%202016-17%20Proposed%20Decision%20Paper.pdf

334 million to go to "renewable energy" AKA private wind energy investor bank accounts !!! Pure utter scam. We were promised reduced energy bills when all this wind energy started, me fecking arse ! Pure scam and corruption we shouldn't not allow.

137 million to Peat, though at least Irish company but Peat shouldn't be subsidised , it's a very bad fuel for air quality. And for burning in stoves causes a lot of pollution.

But people will only shout about water charges in this country, we're being ripped off big time in this country.

That 334 million to Renewables. I don;t know whether this is extra or including what we already pay.

The Government still refuse to subsidise solar PV in this country ! mad ! all wind.

The Government still refuse to pay consumers for micro generation and installation of wind and solar PV , they give nothing back.

All this is about half a Billion Euro's and not a cent given for EV charge points or micro generation or reducing energy bills, no , give nothing back to the tax payers for this extortion !!!

MaxPower89

http://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/ecotricity-blames-6-charge-mitsubishi-outlander-phevs-clogging-network

Good, I see that I'm not the only one that sees the charging network being used by plug ins with tiny batteries a complete waste , preventing BEV users from continuing their journey where the plug in owner realises how cheap and good EV drive actually is and could continue on the ICE and even quick charge the battery from the ICE.

Thankfully it's the only plug in capable of using the DC network. The other big problem is that the DC network won't charge these plug ins using the chargers full out put making it even a greater waste.

However an easier more effictive approach would be to charge only plug in owners,

BoatMad

PHEVs with EV ranges under 50 mikes should be heavily penalised IMHO. They are just NEDC rule cheating devices

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

PHEVs with EV ranges under 50 mikes should be heavily penalised IMHO. They are just NEDC rule cheating devices

Completely agree ! for once !

Welcome back by the way, where were you hiding ? was very peaceful without you I have to say !

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Completely agree ! for once !

Welcome back by the way, where were you hiding ? was very peaceful without you I have to say !

away on hols for 5 weeks
peaceful = boring

zilog_jones

BoatMad wrote: »

PHEVs with EV ranges under 50 mikes should be heavily penalised IMHO. They are just NEDC rule cheating devices

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Unlike the actual cheating that was done with many diesel-engined cars, PHEVs genuinely produce less emissions than standard hybrids or ICE vehicles. I'm getting 80 MPG average with my Prius PHEV - you couldn't do that with a normal Prius. I can also do my commute to work with zero emissions even though the 14 km EV range is far below your arbitrary suggestion.

People just need to use common sense and have consideration for others when using public charging points, regardless of what kind of vehicle they have. On many occasions I've seen BEVs hogging them for hours after they have completed charging. I'd think twice about using a charging point on a motorway, and if I did I wouldn't leave it unattended.

People don't have consideration for others though so something needs to be done.

When I was at Naas a few weeks ago some Woman pulled up just ahead of me, could even use the charger so I showed her how then asked if she'd be long and she said no, I watched her walk over to Aldi and 40 mins later the B**ch came back, only word suitable for her under the circumstances.

I asked her where she's from and she said Kill, now there's now ay in hell she needed the 40 min charge to get to Kill, all I needed was 8 mins to get be home which is way further than Naas to Kill.

She could have said get what you need and plug me in when you're done and I'd happily do that. But nope, had to be a selfish inconsiderate Cow.

There's just no need for people to be like this so the inevitable outcome will be that there are charges for the network.

zilog_jones

So you expected someone who didn't know how to use a public charger to understand proper charging etiquette, and know how long she'd need to charge her car?

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

So you expected someone who didn't know how to use a public charger to understand proper charging etiquette, and know how long she'd need to charge her car?

Bit of common sense really, "no I won't be long" then turns up 40 mins later........

zilog_jones

How long is a piece of string?

She knew damn well I needed the charge to get home, didn't bother even to ask how long I needed, how far I had to go, She knew well she didn't need 40 mins to get from Naas to Kill !!!!

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Unlike the actual cheating that was done with many diesel-engined cars, PHEVs genuinely produce less emissions than standard hybrids or ICE vehicles. I'm getting 80 MPG average with my Prius PHEV - you couldn't do that with a normal Prius. I can also do my commute to work with zero emissions even though the 14 km EV range is far below your arbitrary suggestion.

People just need to use common sense and have consideration for others when using public charging points, regardless of what kind of vehicle they have. On many occasions I've seen BEVs hogging them for hours after they have completed charging. I'd think twice about using a charging point on a motorway, and if I did I wouldn't leave it unattended.

My experience of phevs is that for most of the time they are running on petrol. In that nude they are as polluting as any ice car.

The nedc is s slow speed short duration test. During the test a limited range hybrid looks far better then it is in real life and the test awards it an artificially low emissions rating ( and higher rated fuel ecomony )

It real life they are just ice cars

zilog_jones

How can it pollute as much as an ICE car when the ICE is not running all the time? It relies on the petrol engine even less than a normal hybrid due to superior batteries. I don't know about other PHEVs but the Prius will never attempt to fully charge the batteries from the ICE, it will only maintain around 20-30% SOC - so there is no unnecessary ICE usage there either.

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

How can it pollute as much as an ICE car when the ICE is not running all the time? It relies on the petrol engine even less than a normal hybrid due to superior batteries. I don't know about other PHEVs but the Prius will never attempt to fully charge the batteries from the ICE, it will only maintain around 20-30% SOC - so there is no unnecessary ICE usage there either.

The fact is the PHEVs and especially the Priuis have such poor ranges that they are in effect running on ICE nearly all of the times

( how has it superior batteries )

the fact is that hybrids get good tax ratings and Co2 ratings because the NEDC test was dreamt up before hybrids and in effect they " game " the NEDC

reboot

KCross wrote: »

I looked back at some of the charges I did in my 24kWh Leaf when I used the ecotricity network and I did a couple of 20min charges and they were from 30-80% and I took on 11.5kWh's and the battery temp was up to the most efficient temperature range so I think 11-12kWh's is close to the max you will get in 20mins unless you are going from 0%

So, £5 for 11kWh's... thats expensive!

SpeakEV is going mental all day with mostly negative comment. I wonder is this just an initial kite flying exercise to see what people think and they'll settle on something less and everyone will feel relieved eventhough it will still be expensive!

Much the same as what eCars are probably going to do to us when they come back with their 2nd round of pricing!

Based oOn my home charger, I believe 11n all the commentary it seems to me that you have to have a combination of kWh and time based charging to allow for the different charge rates that cars will have, and to stop hogging.... maybe Xc/kWh for the first,say, 10kWh's and then twice that for every kWh beyond that with a limit of 30mins.... or something to that effect.

I believe my home charger will deliver 11kwhr for 88p. Folk need to be careful not to buy the "Wrong" EV, in terms of rapids/22 k etc.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The fact is the PHEVs and especially the Priuis have such poor ranges that they are in effect running on ICE nearly all of the times

( how has it superior batteries )

the fact is that hybrids get good tax ratings and Co2 ratings because the NEDC test was dreamt up before hybrids and in effect they " game " the NEDC

The Prius emits far less harmful emissions than diesels with similar fuel economy.

zilog_jones

BoatMad wrote: »

The fact is the PHEVs and especially the Priuis have such poor ranges that they are in effect running on ICE nearly all of the times

I can do my commute to work in EV mode 90% of the time, and I'm averaging 40% total EV use. If your commute is short enough but you still want to be able to do long journeys (esp. where charging unavailable/impractical), a PHEV makes a lot of sense.

how has it superior batteries

The Prius PHV has a 4.4 kWh Li-ion battery, whereas the standard 3rd gen Prius has a 1.3 kWh Ni-MH battery (same in Lexus CT200h, Auris Hybrid, etc.). All PHEVs have comparatively larger batteries than normal hybrids.

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

I can do my commute to work in EV mode 90% of the time, and I'm averaging 40% total EV use. If your commute is short enough but you still want to be able to do long journeys (esp. where charging unavailable/impractical), a PHEV makes a lot of sense.


The Prius PHV has a 4.4 kWh Li-ion battery, whereas the standard 3rd gen Prius has a 1.3 kWh Ni-MH battery (same in Lexus CT200h, Auris Hybrid, etc.). All PHEVs have comparatively larger batteries than normal hybrids.

Low mileage PHEVS ( ie with sub 100 km range ) are just a joke. They gain better co2 tax bands by in effect gaming the nedc.

In reality in you are doing small commutes then buy a new fuel efficient petrol only car. The fuel price you will use is more then offset by the cheaper car purchase cost.

No PHEV I looked at made any economic sense. The vrt advantages should be removed

PHEV's cost a lot more anyway despite any VRT rebates.

A 30 Kwh leaf can charge from around 18% to 90% in about 30 mins giving around 120-130 kms range and about 140-150 kms from 100%.

260 Kms isn't bad range really with a 30 min charge.

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

I can do my commute to work in EV mode 90% of the time, and I'm averaging 40% total EV use. If your commute is short enough but you still want to be able to do long journeys (esp. where charging unavailable/impractical), a PHEV makes a lot of sense.

A small PHEV battery will be cycled a hell of a lot more then an EV, not a hug deal in itself provided they have enough in reserve.

Water John

Minister says RE payment system, inc solar will be in place in 2017.

RE combined with EV is the way to go.

In a few years most charging will be at work and at home.
With a good bit of solar, electricity may actually be fairly cheap in the middle of the day.
EVs will actually become a key storage component of RE.

Have you got a link for this FIT for 2017 ? that is interesting and makes Solar PV in Ireland a lot more viable, there needs to be a grant in place and a guarantee of payment for a number of years.

With a lot of electrics on the road electricity consumption will skyrocket but the more wind and solar to the grid the cleaner the grid. On a windy enough day wind generates up to 55% of our electricity at peak time. But there are many days that's as little as 2-5% where solar PV could greatly increase this.

In years to come I doubt work charging will be needed because by the time large numbers of people start driving EV range will be 300 Kms + and no one will really need it unless people buy lower range electrics but I doubt many people will.

BoatMad

would like to see link to ministers statement, all that has been committed to is another public consultation , then it requires approval from the EU commission , there is also the impact on the PSO levy

The PSO Levy + Co2 tax is going to line the pockets of wind energy investors, compliments of the Irish tax payer.

Some of this should go to providing a proper FIT and Grant for wind turbine and solar PV installations.

KCross

This isnt from the minister but it suggests something is coming in 2017 re Solar PV

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057642192

Quote: "Solar technology is one of the technologies being considered in the context of the new support scheme for renewable electricity generation which will be available in 2017, as detailed in the 2015 Energy White Paper"


The terminology is vague for sure but it does say there is a new scheme coming in 2017 and Solar PV is being considered as part of that. Have to wait for the budget I suppose.

That could mean support for commercial energy investors, because currently there is a huge amount of solar applications in with the department of energy perhaps, I remember reading a big article in the Times or Independent, can't remember specifics.

I doubt it's about a FIT for the public or grant, commercial benefit most likely at the expense of the taxpayer.

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That could mean support for commercial energy investors, because currently there is a huge amount of solar applications in with the department of energy perhaps, I remember reading a big article in the Times or Independent, can't remember specifics.

I doubt it's about a FIT for the public or grant, commercial benefit most likely at the expense of the taxpayer.

I agree , micro generation is not in the agenda as far as I can see ( and the esb is against MG anyways )

KCross

Why are the ESB against MG?
Is it simply down to loss of revenue and protecting their jobs or are there technical reasons also

Water John

Yes, the Minister said the RE options would be priced in 2017. He was speaking at a RE day in Gurteen College, Co. Tipp.
From talking to people in the business, the push for MG must come from Gov't thus instructing ESB to facillitate it. I presume that will also tie in with smart metering.
Applications to connection by commercial PV are around 370. Each of these would be on average just under 5Mw. Thus you can see the scale.
Most applications are South of a line from Dublin to Galway. About 10/15% less irridation in Donegal compared to Cork.
Of that 370, 35 applications in Tipp, 75 applications in Cork.

It is really suitable to tie PV in with EV. We need an overall Carbon Plan. No point making it up piecemeal. Then getting big fines, poor balance of payments due to fuel imports and losing out on being a leader in going carbon neutral.

In think the figures are, that if we go that route, our electricity production needs to quadruple (Connolly, University of Aalborg, Denmark.)

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

Yes, the Minister said the RE options would be priced in 2017. He was speaking at a RE day in Gurteen College, Co. Tipp.
From talking to people in the business, the push for MG must come from Gov't thus instructing ESB to facillitate it. I presume that will also tie in with smart metering.
Applications to connection by commercial PV are around 370. Each of these would be on average just under 5Mw. Thus you can see the scale.
Most applications are South of a line from Dublin to Galway. About 10/15% less irridation in Donegal compared to Cork.
Of that 370, 35 applications in Tipp, 75 applications in Cork.

It is really suitable to tie PV in with EV. We need an overall Carbon Plan. No point making it up piecemeal. Then getting big fines, poor balance of payments due to fuel imports and losing out on being a leader in going carbon neutral.

In think the figures are, that if we go that route, our electricity production needs to quadruple (Connolly, University of Aalborg, Denmark.)

The minister n response to a dail question , has stated that the next stage is a further public consultation by the CER. ( and subsequent EU agreement ) however there is no commitment to persue FIT for MG/domestic users and the well known antipathy by the esb to MG Fit Is well known.

The suitability oF PVs to EVs is less clearcut in Ireland , ( if you mean domestic PV) , the system absolutely requires FIT to work , and most MG FIT is in effect state aid.

We are a long way from MG FIT at present , unlikely in fact to be dealt with by this government in fact

Water John

10 years ago the CEO of ESB said the system would only ever be able to accomodate 500Mw of wind power.
He seems to have got that a bit wrong.
It is up to the Minister to set policy, which ESB, as a state body, are then obliged to fulfill.
I believe Costa Rica electricity is fully reliant on RE for the last 113 days and counting. Must find a link for that, was sent it a few days ago.

Sorry if it a bit off topic. We all have our pet subjects. RE is mine.

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

10 years ago the CEO of ESB said the system would only ever be able to accomodate 500Mw of wind power.
He seems to have got that a bit wrong.
It is up to the Minister to set policy, which ESB, as a state body, are then obliged to fulfill.
I believe Costa Rica electricity is fully reliant on RE for the last 113 days and counting. Must find a link for that, was sent it a few days ago.

Sorry if it a bit off topic. We all have our pet subjects. RE is mine.

Yes but RE is essentially a policy issue but whether the grid should facilitate micro generation is a thorny subject with pros and cons.

My interest is MG rather then RE per say

Water John

MG is largely a subset of RE. You can also have biomass and AD plants etc.

It would be worth making a pitch at Denis Naughton on the matter. Hopefully he has a diff outlook of MG, than previous office holders.
Yes, MG is very NB. It may not contribute a huge amount it total but it is very good at involving the public in the whole RE also in a positive way.

A guy in Germany had a €10M fund to put PV on any buildings and he paid you a rent. And we are all in the EU???

It's just easier to keep people addicted to the fossil fuel tax revenue gravy train !!!