Cycling at night.

blueballfc

So the OH and I have been looking for a new place. Eventually found one the only drawback for me at present is the location. Currently cycling to work 20 k each way, all well light urban area last 8 K along the royal canal so no traffic at all. Well lit up and all of that good stuff (rear light and 400 Lumen front light). The thing is the location looking (Swords to Clondalkin) will be probably force me to take on a lot of country roads most likely strawberry beds and R108 with little or no street lights. Really do not want to go through town, I try an avoid traffic like plague.

Couple of questions
1) How comfortable are people particularly in winter cycling along these roads (country roads, with a lot of traffic) and

2) Any advice of lighting systems that could benefit this level of a commute.

Input appreciated as cycling future an potentially marriage in the balance

Pablo Rubio

I cycle from Swords to clondalkin 4 days a week all year.

Safest route I found is Swords, Killeek, St. Margarets (then there is a small cycle path to airport roundabout), Charlsetown , Finglas, cabra , Phoenix Park, chapelizod, ballyfermot, Cherry orchard ,Clondalkin.Its not the straightest route on paper but found it safest and fastest.

During the mildly Frosty /Icy periods in winter I go by ALSAA ,santry, Phibsborough to phoenix Park.

.To be honest the dodgiest with cars is the bus lanes around Finglas . Good lights are needed. I have a 600 lumen front light and a 400 for backup with 3 rear lights. and plenty of Hi-Viz.

Wishbone Ash

In my experience, you're much more likely to be seen on an unlit road than on a lit road as there are far fewer distractions for drivers and therefore lights stand out more.

ED E

I've cycled out Maynooth way twice with inadequate lighting, man did I feel vulnerable, but with the right gear it shouldn't be so bad. Id grab a some Cree LED based lights and off you go. My rear is actually brighter than a honda break light.

NiallBoo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In my experience, you're much more likely to be seen on an unlit road than on a lit road as there are far fewer distractions for drivers and therefore lights stand out more.

Yup, I'd be happy being seen by cars with a decent flashing rear light.

The strawberry beds also has A LOT of speed- bumps so that'll reduce the risk a fair bit.

steamsey

I can’t help you with this route but have been commuting year round most of my life on all sorts of roads including quiet, dark country roads and here’s some considerations for being seen:

- Get the best and brightest hi vis water resistant jacket you can afford
- USB rechargeable front and rear lights are handy (if you can charge at your desk). Make sure front light has side windows for side visibility. Also reflective 3M spokey dokey things (Lidl / Aldi) help side visibility
- If you have reflectors on pedals they are useful as moving reflectors really stand out. Otherwise get cycling shoes with rear / side reflectors
- In the depths of winter I usually use 2 front and 2 rear lights, one set to constant on, another to flashing. It’s more than necessary but you would have to be blind to miss me at night
- Reflector on backpack or even a light on it. The hi vis backpack covers are good and stand out a mile in the dark, also act as rain cover
- Always carry light backups / spare batteries in winter
- You can get very bright very cheap headlamp type lights from Hong Kong with separate battery pack – but in my experience they are overkill for road commuting and can be unreliable. If you get good lights they will do the job and last several years – brands like Cateye, Nite Rider and Knog have never let me down

ted1

I'll go with my standard recommendation which is a hub Dynamo and B&M lights front and rear. No fear of battery dying and once you fit them you simply forget about them and leave them always on

tomasrojo

I only have a small bit of experience of cycling on rural-like roads at night, and it's just roads like the back roads between Walkinstown and Tallaght (for example), so not maybe not completely representative.

I found powerful front and rear lights, extra reflectors on the bike and home-made wrist lights were adequate (if you think they haven't seen you, pretending to adjust something at your back gives a quick flash of light from the wrist lights and makes drivers slow down or give extra space, usually).

I do think you might be more conspicuous on a very dark road with good lights than on an urban road, but the problem is the higher speed of cars, and the lower expectation of meeting a cyclist.

Be very cautious on the blind side of corners, heading away, when no matter how much reflective surface you're carrying, or how many lights, drivers may not be able to see you around the bend, and by the time they do see you, if they're speeding, they may not be able to stop. Spoiler: they will be speeding.

07Lapierre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In my experience, you're much more likely to be seen on an unlit road than on a lit road as there are far fewer distractions for drivers and therefore lights stand out more.

+1... My commute in winter is on mainly unlit roads. I cycle a little further out from the edge of the road at night so that motorists can see me from afar. It also helps if you have a very bright front light that will allow oncoming cars to see you as they approach a bend in the road. Just make sure your front light is not mounted above the handlebars and is pointing towards the road and not straight ahead.

blueballfc

Thanks Guys seems doable ish
So I plan to go with the following lighting system

2 x Lezyne Macro Drive 600XL Front Light
wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-macro-drive-600xl-front-light/?sku=5360715381

2 x Fibre Flare for the forks
wiggle.co.uk/fibre-flare-ultimate-safety-rear-tail-light-single/?sku=5360345802

2 X lezyne strip-drivepro
wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-strip-drive-pro-rear-light-y9

High vis jacket and cover for back back still working through the route, but hopefully you can see me on the rte weather satellite.

benneca1

I second above plus add spoke reflectors. In addition put them on brake cables or gear cables side visibility is the issue at junctions and on roundabouts cars just don't see you.

tomasrojo

Spoke reflectors (or reflective tyre walls) may make a difference, but I tend to agree (thought not entirely) with the Sheldon Brown take on them (and other reflectors):

"Because of the limited coverage area of headlight beam patterns, it's easy for a bicyclist on an intersecting path to sneak out of inky blackness into the motorist's path just in time to collide."
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/reflectors.html

When you're in the path of the lights in plenty of time in the case of spoke reflectors, you've out of the car's trajectory long before they reach the point at which you became visible.

Wrist lights are better, I think. Not that I've ever met anyone else who uses them.


In the particular case of roundabouts and cars waiting to join the roundabout, reflectors (and hi-viz jackets) are not much use; in the absence of ambient lighting, no use. The car lights throw to the left; you on the bike are approaching the waiting car from the right; there is no significant reflection towards the driver.

tomasrojo

Sheldon Brown's comment about the observation angle is also true, as I've tried it a few times. Moving the light source away from your eye results in much less reflection. Still useful enough, but reflectors impress us all occasionally with a bright flash of light; we tend to forget all the times we're barely aware of them because the angles aren't right.

cdaly_

blueballfc wrote: »

Thanks Guys seems doable ish
So I plan to go with the following lighting system

2 x Lezyne Macro Drive 600XL Front Light
wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-macro-drive-600xl-front-light/?sku=5360715381

2 x Fibre Flare for the forks
wiggle.co.uk/fibre-flare-ultimate-safety-rear-tail-light-single/?sku=5360345802

2 X lezyne strip-drivepro
wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-strip-drive-pro-rear-light-y9

High vis jacket and cover for back back still working through the route, but hopefully you can see me on the rte weather satellite.

Massive overkill at EUR270 and all the hassle of batteries.

Dynamo front wheel
B&M IQ Cyo premium headlamp
and B&M Topline Brake plus rear lamp
comes in at EUR160. Lights up the road front and rear and, with the dynamo, no dead batteries hassle.

tomasrojo

I like the sound of the "brake light" effect mentioned in the last link there.

At the core of the BrakeTec technology is a processor that is integrated into the back light casing and analyses the hub dynamo’s sig­nals. When your speed suddenly drops significantly, the back light shines considerably brighter to warn following traffic.

cdaly_

Yep, it's pretty effective. I followed an fellow randonneur up and down the drumlins of Mullingar one night and the light would brighten every time he started up a hill.

I also found that the front light made motorists take note from quite a distance on small roads. They were pulling over to make room as I must have appeared to be a motorbike or some such.

blueballfc

Thanks the hub is not something I gave much consideration TBH, do the add much weight to the wheel ? any resistance ?

saccades

I do a chunk of commuting in winter through the dark/night but mainly country roads.

Pedals with reflectors make it 100% obvious what you are (and legally you have to have them and a rear reflector). I use XT touring (dual sided).

I have a cateye refector/led light I leave on all the time at the back, with a 1W LED thing (smart, keep getting sold cheap as the waterproof seal only lasts a year) and an exposure redeye, which is linked to a racemaxx on the front (plan to get a strada soon I think, depends on battery replacement costs) which is set to flash. Also have a helmet light (joystick), which is aimed awayish from the road which is really handy to use as a main beam for oncoming cars and letting me see the road at speed.

I don't wear any high viz, apart from reflective piping on stuff.

Nearly been run over by a bus at a roundabout but that's it in 6 years of 2x a week when BST ends.

Ideally I'd get dynamo hubs (with mini battery) coupled to german dynamo lights (beam shape is designed like a car headlight for the road) to total fit and forget.

ted1

blueballfc wrote: »

Thanks the hub is not something I gave much consideration TBH, do the add much weight to the wheel ? any resistance ?

Minimal resistance , you won't notice it. I got this one https://www.rosebikes.com/article/road-front-wheel-28700-c-mavic-cxp-prodh-3n80/aid:716428 there isn't to much weight difference between it and my fulcrum 7

tomasrojo

saccades wrote: »

Pedals with reflectors make it 100% obvious what you are (and legally you have to have them and a rear reflector).

I thought that they were a legal requirement too, and I always use them, but it doesn't seem to be the case. It is in the UK, alright, but not here.

Wishbone Ash

saccades wrote: »

...Pedals with reflectors make it 100% obvious what you are (and legally you have to have them and a rear reflector)...

tomasrojo wrote: »

I thought that they were a legal requirement too, and I always use them, but it doesn't seem to be the case. It is in the UK, alright, but not here.

Pedal reflectors are not a legal requirement - a rear single reflector is required unless your bike is adapted for racing and you can prove that you were racing, or travelling to/from a race.

saccades

Too drunk after the footy but I thought the EU had adopted the UK regs (or the UK regs mirrored the EU regs) on what you should have after dusk?

I did look it up (UK/EU) as I was whinging to PX about the lack of reflectors on the london road "commuter" bike. UK law is quite specitic since 2010.

Even if it's not the law, pedal reflectors and their yellow up/down appear/disappear scream bike to everyone. Big plus.

Shimaon used to do a pedal reflector kit that could be fitted to a lot of their pedals

CramCycle

blueballfc wrote: »

Thanks the hub is not something I gave much consideration TBH, do the add much weight to the wheel ? any resistance ?

The DH3N80 from Shimano has less resistance than mavic askiums in my experience. Highly recommended.

tomasrojo

saccades wrote: »

Too drunk after the footy but I thought the EU had adopted the UK regs (or the UK regs mirrored the EU regs) on what you should have after dusk?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057136579
It's discussed in there somewhere.

The CTC are trying to get rid of the UK requirement, because so many people have clipless pedals. They were advocating an option to use ankle bands or an extra flashing red light. Something like that.

I also like pedal reflectors.

Get In There

cdaly_ wrote: »

Massive overkill at EUR270 and all the hassle of batteries.

Dynamo front wheel
B&M IQ Cyo premium headlamp
and B&M Topline Brake plus rear lamp
comes in at EUR160. Lights up the road front and rear and, with the dynamo, no dead batteries hassle.

Very interested in this thread as I myself cycle 50km on my daily commute and would be cycling on roads that have no streetlights whatsoever - thanks for the recommendations in your post. However I don't think my bike has any eyelets for the rear brake. Nor does it have mudguards (I use the SKS raceblades when appropriate). Would you suggest any other alternative rear light that can be powered by the dynamo?

Thanks in advance.

CramCycle

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-secula-plus-tail-light-for-mounting-on-seat-stays-or-seat-posts/aid:709311

I have not used it but it is B+M so I would expect decent quality and lighting.

ted1

CramCycle wrote: »

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-secula-plus-tail-light-for-mounting-on-seat-stays-or-seat-posts/aid:709311

I have not used it but it is B+M so I would expect decent quality and lighting.

I have that one and find it great.

Trojan

tomasrojo wrote: »

Be very cautious on the blind side of corners, heading away, when no matter how much reflective surface you're carrying, or how many lights, drivers may not be able to see you around the bend, and by the time they do see you, if they're speeding, they may not be able to stop. Spoiler: they will be speeding.

+1

It might seem counter intuitive, but I've found it best to be positioned in the middle of the road on bends on country roads - it gives more lead time both directions if a car does come along.

tomasrojo

Bit like the advice in Cylecraft where it suggests on the start of some descents to switch to the wrong side of the road until you're a fair bit from the crest of the hill -- on the logic that you can see traffic coming up the hill against you and they can see you, but speeding vehicles cresting the hill in your direction won't see you in time.

Get In There

cdaly_ wrote: »

Massive overkill at EUR270 and all the hassle of batteries.

Dynamo front wheel
B&M IQ Cyo premium headlamp
and B&M Topline Brake plus rear lamp
comes in at EUR160. Lights up the road front and rear and, with the dynamo, no dead batteries hassle.

About to pull the trigger on all of this. However would anyone have a cheaper alternative for a handlebar mount for the front light? I can only find this one which is a little costly at 20e

https://www.rosebikes.de/artikel/b--m-lenkerhalter-fuer-dynamobetriebene-frontscheinwerfer/aid:837426?searchquery=b%20%20%20m%20halter

ted1

Get In There wrote: »

About to pull the trigger on all of this. However would anyone have a cheaper alternative for a handlebar mount for the front light? I can only find this one which is a little costly at 20e

https://www.rosebikes.de/artikel/b--m-lenkerhalter-fuer-dynamobetriebene-frontscheinwerfer/aid:837426?searchquery=b%20%20%20m%20halter

Just mount it to your forks, put it behind your brake.

Chuchote

Sugru and magnets:

https://sugru.com/blog/12-ways-to-improve-your-bike-with-sugru

Thing about the Strawberry Beds is the road is narrow and twisty and drivers belt along, and it's hard to see the unexpected. Used to live there, and a neighbour drove cautiously (as always) out of his driveway, which slanted onto the road, and was joined in the front seat by a dead motorcyclist, whose pillion passenger was also dead when found 100 metres away, having sailed over his car. He never recovered, moved out soon after to live in an apartment.

rollingscone

Chuchote wrote: »

Sugru and magnets:

https://sugru.com/blog/12-ways-to-improve-your-bike-with-sugru

Thing about the Strawberry Beds is the road is narrow and twisty and drivers belt along, and it's hard to see the unexpected. Used to live there, and a neighbour drove cautiously (as always) out of his driveway, which slanted onto the road, and was joined in the front seat by a dead motorcyclist, whose pillion passenger was also dead when found 100 metres away, having sailed over his car. He never recovered, moved out soon after to live in an apartment.

Repeated incidents like this is why Strawberry beds are now thick with speed bumps.

The speeds have reduced considerably as a result

Jawgap

Getting ready for the winter and just purchased this......



.....to go on this.....



.....with a Shutter Precision PD-8 Hub Dynamo hub.

Shorty69664

So.... I'm seriously thinking of getting a front wheel with dynamo Hub for my road bike. It's an Orbea Avant H50 with Orbea's own R1800 wheels.

However i'm totally lost when looking at the options available - Mostly as I haven't a clue if they will be suitable for my bike which currently has 700C x 23 tyres on it.

I would appreciate if anyone could suggest a possible wheel (with a dynamo hub) that would be suitable. I was hoping to have something for <€150.

Thanks for reading...

ED E

When 18650s are so cheap and can be charged with a USB charger on your desk why do people use dynos anymore?

Lumen

ED E wrote: »

When 18650s are so cheap and can be charged with a USB charger on your desk why do people use dynos anymore?

Because zero inconvenience is better than small inconvenience.

Lumen

Shorty69664 wrote: »

So.... I'm seriously thinking of getting a front wheel with dynamo Hub for my road bike...I would appreciate if anyone could suggest a possible wheel (with a dynamo hub) that would be suitable. I was hoping to have something for <€150.

Is that for the wheel only or for wheel and lights?

Wishbone Ash

ED E wrote: »

When 18650s are so cheap and can be charged with a USB charger on your desk why do people use dynos anymore?

Better than carrying several spares on a long overnight ride where one may not have access to a desk.

07Lapierre

ED E wrote: »

When 18650s are so cheap and can be charged with a USB charger on your desk why do people use dynos anymore?

Probably because Dynamos don't have to be charged at all.

ford2600

Shorty69664 wrote: »

So.... I'm seriously thinking of getting a front wheel with dynamo Hub for my road bike. It's an Orbea Avant H50 with Orbea's own R1800 wheels.

However i'm totally lost when looking at the options available - Mostly as I haven't a clue if they will be suitable for my bike which currently has 700C x 23 tyres on it.

I would appreciate if anyone could suggest a possible wheel (with a dynamo hub) that would be suitable. I was hoping to have something for <€150.

Thanks for reading...

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/diverse-road-front-wheel-28700-c-mavic-cxp-prodh-3n80/aid:716428

180 incl gp 4000 tyre and dh 3n 80 hub. I'd ask for a 25mm tyre maybe.

They have a cheaper wheel with an xtreme sari rim but it would probably be too wide for a road bike and certainly would be with mudguard.

You could go cheaper with a dh 3n 30 hub of ebay also.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm

good source of information

Shimano are the cheapest of the main dynamo hub manufactures. You wouldn't get the hub of other players for your budget but the shimano will do just fine

You could email rose/sjs cycles and ask them to build to spec but I doubt they will beat linked wheel in price

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28-Front-wheel-Shimano-Hub-dynamo-DH-3N30-Alu-Black-Quick-release-Trekking-bike-/381411212558?hash=item58cde13d0e:g:v48AAOSwMmBV7J8J

You'd need a 28mm tyre(although I've run a 25mm on similar width rim) and it MIGHT fit between fork. No idea how they can build them for that price

Shorty69664

Lumen wrote: »

Is that for the wheel only or for wheel and lights?

Wheel Only!!!

Shorty69664

ED E wrote: »

When 18650s are so cheap and can be charged with a USB charger on your desk why do people use dynos anymore?

Well I hope to commute at least some days during the winter months but it's an 80km round trip which is just over 3 hours in total.

From what I can see I'd have to charge every night but if I forget, then the bike will have to stay at home.

At least with a dynamo you can hop on the bike and the lights are always ready for use...

Shorty69664

ford2600 wrote: »

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/diverse-road-front-wheel-28700-c-mavic-cxp-prodh-3n80/aid:716428

180 incl gp 4000 tyre and dh 3n 80 hub. I'd ask for a 25mm tyre maybe.

Out of interest, why would you go for the 25mm tyre and not for the 23mm?

Thanks by the way for the info. I was getting a bit lost going through all the websites when I didn't really know what I was looking for.

ford2600

Shorty69664 wrote: »

Out of interest, why would you go for the 25mm tyre and not for the 23mm?

Thanks by the way for the info. I was getting a bit lost going through all the websites when I didn't really know what I was looking for.

Comfort, I'd go for 28 if they'd fit.

Given you a re commutting pretty long distance go for a pretty robust tyre, puncture in the rain 30km into a 80km spin in January won't be fun.

Durano plus or the like.

Get a cheap front light to help you with any mechanicals, dynamo lamps are great until you stop pedalling:)

Lumen

ford2600 wrote: »

Get a cheap front light to help you with any mechanicals, dynamo lamps are great until you stop pedalling:)

+1.

The worst place I've had punctures is in the middle of the Phoenix Park in winter, in the dark and rain. The streetlights are incredibly dim, the headlights are incredibly bright, ruining any night vision. The mud is everywhere. The dynamo doesn't work. The phone is out of battery. It is several km to the nearest proper streetlights. A real "screw cycling" moment.

Ryath

Lezyne front and rear set for €52

Good price for a back up set to dynamo lights. The rear is one of the best I've seen and going on lezyne front lights I have the micro drive is more than capable of using on its own in the unlikely event of dynamo setup failing.