Species for Coppicing

Squidvicious

I want to plant up a fairly small area of land(maybe a quarter acre) with trees with a view to coppicing in a few years time. I'm thinking that Sycamore or Spanish Chestnut might be good choices but I'd be glad of a bit of a steer in the right direction. I know Alder/Aspen would be fast growing, but would prefer to avoid what I think of as not great timber (I know there's another thread saying Alder's not that bad though). Birch is another one I've thought of(mainly for speed of growth). I would be looking at using the timber for firewood.

One important point. The area where I'm thinking of planting would be poor enough quality soil. Part of it is covered with soil removed from the site where our house was built a couple of years ago so I would guess that there could be a certain amount of subsoil in it. I've been meaning to do this for a couple of years now and it's fenced off and not grazed or farmed. However, it has grown a reasonable sward of grass (and some weeds😡) so I presume the soil quality isn't terrible.

I'm in the South and the site would be reasonably sunny and there would be no issues with waterlogging.

Any advice would be appreciated.

crackcrack30

Some great uk coppice websites, Ash , birch spring to mind

tabby aspreme

Birch could be the best option, it will grow on marginal land and it grows quickly, I have some sown alongside alder and ash and I'm sorry I didn't plant more birch.

timfromtang

whilst more difficult to manage, a diverse coppice mix might suit you well.
You might like to plant a few "standards" (trees you will allow to grow to timber size) perhaps up to 5 trees on your 1/4 acre plot

Some hazel (a traditionally coppiced species) for nut yield and makes a useful craft wood and good firewood.
Some hornbeam (shade tolerant and also traditionally coppiced) very dense and super hard wood makes wonderful firewood and superior charcoal.
Cherry and other fruit trees, many of the fruit woods are prised by woodworkers, fruit is a bonus, and these will coppice if you can find trees growing on their own roots grafted ones may not respond so well to coppicing, or you may plant dwarf or half standard varieties and not coppice them.
birch great firewood and tasty sap you can tap in the springtime for wine or for drinking fresh
Alder fixes nitrogen and is a useful wood for carcass frames and furniture, (nice and light but strong for sofa frames etc)
Sycamore good for bees and grows fiercely fast, coppices beautifully, useful hardwood
Spanish chestnut you already mentioned
Lime for medicinal flower tea, superior timber for carving, good for bees, coppices very well
I'd suggest a pair of walnuts managed as standards (very high value wood and nuts)
oak of course
a basket willow or two are both pretty and useful
perhaps consider an understorey of currants and raspberries gooseberries etc whatever you prefer and will grow
good luck with your planting
tim

the site you describe will likely have poorer areas of soil and better spots, a diverse mix planted sensitively may outperform a monoculture and provide a number of other yields apart from merely firewood, since the site is small it should be possible to manage quite intensively and a diversity of yields will help to justify this extra effort.

Squidvicious

Many thanks for the replies. I've planted trees in the past but with no particular utilitarian aim so as this is planting for a particular purpose, your suggestions are helpful. I hadn't really thought about the option of a fruit bush understorey. Presumably, they'd be shaded out eventually, but definitely an option for the early years.

I hadn't thought of cherry at all, but from the few I've planted, they're fairly fast growers so that might be an option. The suggestions of Birch seem a good bet too. I'm a bit wary of Ash, given the Calara outbreak. Not my favourite of trees, but as a quick species to grow, I find it hard to resist putting in a good bit of Sycamore. I would have thought that it'll handle poor soils well, too, given that it manages to grow even inside abandoned buildings. Hadn't really thought about hazel either but probably worth putting in a few.

I'll have a busy autumn!

SILVAMAN

Spanish Chestnut suffering from a couple of serious diseases in Europe and UK, and there's a voluntary ban by Irish nurseries on the importation of transplants.

Grueller

How often could you coppice birch and sycamore?

timfromtang

Grueller wrote: »

How often could you coppice birch and sycamore?

You can crop as often as you like, dependent on the size of produce you require. Sycamore would produce nice 4" diameter poles on a 9-12 year rotation.
tim

Grueller

timfromtang wrote: »

You can crop as often as you like, dependent on the size of produce you require. Sycamore would produce nice 4" diameter poles on a 9-12 year rotation.
tim

Have a half acre or so here isolated by a river. No way to access it with livestock so thinking of a coppice.
Was thinking of a mix of ash, birch and sycamore.
Any advice on distances to plant apart, maintenance species etc would be greatly appreciated.

SILVAMAN

Grueller wrote: »

Have a half acre or so here isolated by a river. No way to access it with livestock so thinking of a coppice.
Was thinking of a mix of ash, birch and sycamore.
Any advice on distances to plant apart, maintenance species etc would be greatly appreciated.

Forget the ash-it will all be dead or dying within 20 years.
Would you consider coppice with standards? Some oak as standards with birch, hazel and sycamore as the coppice.
Ian Short of Teagasc has an interesting paper on the subject- search coppice with standards/Ian short as Teagasc website being revamped and all links not working.

Grueller

SILVAMAN wrote: »

Forget the ash-it will all be dead or dying within 20 years.
Would you consider coppice with standards? Some oak as standards with birch, hazel and sycamore as the coppice.
Ian Short of Teagasc has an interesting paper on the subject- search coppice with standards/Ian short as Teagasc website being revamped and all links not working.

Thanks Silvaman. Thats exactly the info I am interested in hearing, I had no Idea the ash would not work as a coppice.
This parcel of land floods on a very odd year. It flooded last year up to about 6 inches, but had no flooding for about four years previously. Will this have any impact.
Should I plant these species bare rooted?

Oldtree

Grueller wrote: »

This parcel of land floods on a very odd year. It flooded last year up to about 6 inches, but had no flooding for about four years previously. Will this have any impact.

Might be better to stick with willow and alder due to the flooding.

Can be planted bare root, buy your stock as soon as it becomes available to ensure you get the best and then leave in a healing in bed until you are ready to plant.

Boardnashea

Grueller wrote: »

I had no Idea the ash would not work as a coppice.

Ash will work as a coppice species but unfortunately is threatened by disease at present. There's loads to read here and elsewhere on this problem.

But on the original query.. Is coppice with standards practical on a half acre? Will you be keeping any more than one or two standards after the first rotation? I have planted ash (5 and 10 years ago), oak, sweet chestnut (not doing well - coming out this winter) hazel, willow, birch, sycamore and a few other bits and pieces on about 1/2 acre.It has turned into a lovely space now and a couple of geese (and an occasional strim) keep the ground level in control. I have taken out a few poles over the past couple of years and more this winter. It won't heat the house on its own but it certainly helps.

timfromtang

SILVAMAN wrote: »

Forget the ash-it will all be dead or dying within 20 years.
Would you consider coppice with standards? Some oak as standards with birch, hazel and sycamore as the coppice.
Ian Short of Teagasc has an interesting paper on the subject- search coppice with standards/Ian short as Teagasc website being revamped and all links not working.

howdy, heres a link to the paper referenced above
http://t-stor.teagasc.ie/bitstream/11019/317/1/Coppice%20with%20standards-Short%20%26%20Hawe.pdf
interestin for sure
tim

SILVAMAN

timfromtang wrote: »

howdy, heres a link to the paper referenced above
http://t-stor.teagasc.ie/bitstream/11019/317/1/Coppice%20with%20standards-Short%20%26%20Hawe.pdf
interestin for sure
tim

Ian Short is a breath of fresh air in the Irish forestry scene. He's got great knowledge and experience;if he's not sure of something he won't bullsh*t you, and he's open to suggestions and ideas.

SILVAMAN

Oldtree wrote: »

Might be better to stick with willow and alder due to the flooding.

Can be planted bare root, buy your stock as soon as it becomes available to ensure you get the best and then leave in a healing in bed until you are ready to plant.

Because of several diseases affecting common alder, I'd use some Italian alder instead of common. Good form, fast growth, attractive tree.
Are you going to mound it or plant as it is? Just thinking if it were to be mounded, and as it occasionally floods, that it might be a good idea to scoop out a small pond and direct the drains into it. This would provide a great habitat for frogs, newts and associated insects, and in those frequent spring droughts, ensure that tadpoles survived. I did something similar some years back where the corner of the field used to have 6 inches of water for a few months. Made a 25'x50' hole which regularly has at least 300 pairs of frogs every spring.

recedite

Plant two or three types of eucalypytus and some birch, mix them all up, and you'll have a really attractive looking little woodland that provides high quality firewood.

Oldtree

recedite wrote: »

Plant two or three types of eucalypytus and some birch, mix them all up, and you'll have a really attractive looking little woodland that provides high quality firewood.

A lot of eucaluptus died around these parts a few years back in a harsh winter, so it would not be suitable imo for a long term project of coppicing.

But it has to be said that they are very attractive, gorgeous bark.

recedite

Partly why its good to use a few species, but Niphophila and Dalrympleana are two mountain species that I have, which seem to be fully hardy.
A couple of the Globulus died, but I got those seedlings free anyway, growing wild on the back of Killiney Hill, so no big deal I just got some more.
Check out Dplants he has a website about them.

Oldtree

recedite wrote: »

Partly why its good to use a few species, but Niphophila and Dalrympleana are two mountain species that I have, which seem to be fully hardy.
A couple of the Globulus died, but I got those seedlings free anyway, growing wild on the back of Killiney Hill, so no big deal I just got some more.

How long have you been growing ecualyptus and how does the wood burn? Is it a dry site you have on the hillside?

recedite

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means. I planted about 40 Eucalyptus in autumn 2010 and it got fairly cold that winter, about minus 8 here. If you were very far inland it could get down to minus 13 or 15, but AFAIK the two species I mentioned could handle that. They were knee high at planting, and 6 yrs later the best of them are at 8m and 12 cm diameter trunk low down. So that's nearly 1.5m per year on average.
BTW you are better off planting small ones if barerooted, because the bigger ones don't like being moved, and will sit there and sulk for a year, allowing the small ones to catch up anyway .
I might try coppicing them this winter, or maybe leave them a bit longer, not sure yet. I did coppice some at 2m high and cut them back to 1m, then allowed a fork to develop. But those are about 2 years behind now, heightwise. So none cut for firewood yet, but I have burned some from a big tree up the road and I'd say its something like birch; a hardwood but not as heavy as beech or oak. But as well as being faster-growing than most trees, it seems to have a good ability to regenerate after being cut down to a stump.

The site is well drained but windy, on a hillside. The topsoil is good but shallow. Wind can be a problem when they get to about 2m high, as the stems are spindly and the plants are bushy, and being evergreen they catch the wind. A few snapped at the base. At about 3m the character of the tree changes; the trunk thickens up and the leaves of some species changes to a different mature form, and growth accelerates.

SILVAMAN

recedite wrote: »

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means. I planted about 40 Eucalyptus in autumn 2010 and it got fairly cold that winter, about minus 8 here. If you were very far inland it could get down to minus 13 or 15, but AFAIK the two species I mentioned could handle that. They were knee high at planting, and 6 yrs later the best of them are at 8m and 12 cm diameter trunk low down. So that's nearly 1.5m per year on average.
BTW you are better off planting small ones if barerooted, because the bigger ones don't like being moved, and will sit there and sulk for a year, allowing the small ones to catch up anyway .
I might try coppicing them this winter, or maybe leave them a bit longer, not sure yet. I did coppice some at 2m high and cut them back to 1m, then allowed a fork to develop. But those are about 2 years behind now, heightwise. So none cut for firewood yet, but I have burned some from a big tree up the road and I'd say its something like birch; a hardwood but not as heavy as beech or oak. But as well as being faster-growing than most trees, it seems to have a good ability to regenerate after being cut down to a stump.

The site is well drained but windy, on a hillside. The topsoil is good but shallow. Wind can be a problem when they get to about 2m high, as the stems are spindly and the plants are bushy, and being evergreen they catch the wind. A few snapped at the base. At about 3m the character of the tree changes; the trunk thickens up and the leaves of some species changes to a different mature form, and growth accelerates.

With eucalyptus you need to pinch out the terminal bud perhaps twice a year for the first 2 years. It slows growth and encourages stability. Grass control for proper root development is vital. I wouldn't go near bareroot plants-use container grown stock. Best species for frost hardiness are gunnii, glaucescens and subcrenulata.

recedite

SILVAMAN wrote: »

glaucescens and subcrenulata.

Will look out for a few of these to add to the collection.
Gunni is common enough as a garden tree, because most garden centres sell them. But the wood has a reputation for having a twisted grain making it difficult to split. I suppose though, with any Eucalyptus you are probably better off cutting it before it gets so big the firewood needs to be split.

SILVAMAN

recedite wrote: »

Will look out for a few of these to add to the collection.
Gunni is common enough as a garden tree, because most garden centres sell them. But the wood has a reputation for having a twisted grain making it difficult to split. I suppose though, with any Eucalyptus you are probably better off cutting it before it gets so big the firewood needs to be split.

When you coppice make the cut sloping facing south. Don't coppice in the winter-if you get frost you risk the sap freezing and the bark lifting. Coppice in April or May.

Frogeye

I'm starting a coppice on approx 3/4 acre site in the country side in the next few weeks. Currently grazing land. There was a cornfield right beside it until recently so I assume the soil has reasonably good drainage. Top soil is described as loamy clay. Aim of the copppice in order of priority is to produce 1) firewood 2) Shelter for a new house 3) An amienty/ woodland garden 4) Wildlife 5) foraged food. Planning on a mix of hazel, oak,birch,some willow, and the odd fruit tree.

My questions:

1) Preparation: the grass is quite long. Whats the best way to prepare the gound? kill off the grass with chemicals? mow it down and dig? I'll need something to keep the weeds and grass down?

2) Spacing: If I go with a mixed coppice should they all be spaced out the same or do some need more and some less? 1.8m x 1.8m ? I've seen discussions that suggest tighter spacing leads to straighter poles but narrower and less useful for firewood?

3) with a mixed coppice, what is the best way to select areas for cutting and to keep track of it over the years? If it just one speices you can harvest one area one year and another the next but I assume a mixed coppice will have different growth rates so different harvest periods? Maybe you just need a notebook and a good memory!

Regards

Frogeye

El Kabong!

Hi,
I planted 2000 willow trees for coppice on grassland.
In year 1 I planted 500.  I strimmed the area well. Each willow sett had a clear plastic protector around it, and I placed a 60cm square of weed mat around it, dug in. I place the rows about 90-100 cm apart and strimmed them to keep the grass down.
Year 2 the same, but less strimming.
Year 3 the same, but no strimming
Year 4 the same but no strimming!!!
Now, Year 1 is quite developed and the grass is staying low naturally.

Key points...
- I would plant further apart so that you can get a ride on or machinery in between the rows if you do want to do some form of maintenance
- Make sure you get 3 foot or 4 foot willow setts. This will mean they will be higher than the grass and so slugs etc won't get them or they won't be crowded out.
- Make sure you put clear plastic protectors around them to protect from rabbits/strimming.

My Year 1 is 1 variety
Year 2 is 5 mix variety
Year 3 and 4 is grown from cuttings from both of above. Good to have a mix in case disease wipes the whole lot out in one go.
I have split into 4 physical areas and planted them 1 year apart to let me rotate.
You can come up with some fancy design of alternating rows so that it doesn't look bare perhaps

Oh, after 1 years growth I cut to 3 foot high to encourage growth. I am left with 8-10 branches per tree so lots of thin branches. Perhaps I should have just left them and had 1-3 branches but thicker...... but then after coppicing after 5-7 years I would just get all the branches anyway.

El Kabong!

Forgot to add.   by FAR the fastest and best growing willow was the initial variety I got here: https://www.bowhayestrees.co.uk/trees-hedges/trees-by-range/hybrid-willow
I then ordered a mix variety from here: http://mammothwillow.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=73
and while it's all good it just doesn't seem to have the vigour of the former.

Boardnashea

What is the optimum number of regrown stems to leave on a coppice after initial harvest? If an ash stump throws up 10 thin stems should I go around with the loppers leaving 3 or 4 main stems, or less? Or just leave all to compete?

timfromtang

SILVAMAN wrote: »

When you coppice make the cut sloping facing south. Don't coppice in the winter-if you get frost you risk the sap freezing and the bark lifting. Coppice in April or May.

Hi Silvaman,
Can you explain why a south facing sloping cut is preferred? what is your source? experience?
I am interested in coppice management and i had not heard this before
tim

SILVAMAN

timfromtang wrote: »

Hi Silvaman,
Can you explain why a south facing sloping cut is preferred? what is your source? experience?
I am interested in coppice management and i had not heard this before
tim

Faces the sun and so dries so less prone to fungal attack. Personal experience, and have seen it in the literature.

timfromtang

SILVAMAN wrote: »

Faces the sun and so dries so less prone to fungal attack. Personal experience, and have seen it in the literature.

many thanks for that.
tim

memorystick

Thinking of planting a few hundred trees in ditches but it will be the summer again I’m organised. Clearing bushes and fencing first. Where can I buy potted coppice type or should I wait until next winter and sow bare root? Bare root tend to be smaller than the potted. Has anyone ever sown Eucalyptus trees?

Accidentally

memorystick wrote: »

Thinking of planting a few hundred trees in ditches but it will be the summer again I’m organised. Clearing bushes and fencing first. Where can I buy potted coppice type or should I wait until next winter and sow bare root? Bare root tend to be smaller than the potted. Has anyone ever sown Eucalyptus trees?

For coppice I would use Hazel and Hawthorn. Stay away from Blackthorn, as its invasive. I wouldn't buy potted due to cost, and would plan for bare root next November onwards. If you really have to do it during the summer, buy bare root and heel them in, in a temporary location.

Don't know where you are, but Eucalyptus is not fully hardy away from coasts.

memorystick

Accidentally wrote: »

For coppice I would use Hazel and Hawthorn. Stay away from Blackthorn, as its invasive. I wouldn't buy potted due to cost, and would plan for bare root next November onwards. If you really have to do it during the summer, buy bare root and heel them in, in a temporary location.

Don't know where you are, but Eucalyptus is not fully hardy away from coasts.

Whitethorn and ash ok?

Accidentally

memorystick wrote: »

Whitethorn and ash ok?

Whitethorn and Hawthorn are the same thing. Ash die back is busy killing 90%+ of our ash trees at the moment, so no point in planting ash. Hazel is excellent for coppicing and the offcuts have many uses

memorystick

Stupid question. Is it easier to cut timber into blocks straight away or to leave it to dry out? My neighbour says to leave it for a year but I like to get it down and be finished with it as soon as I can. Thanks

Accidentally

memorystick wrote: »

Stupid question. Is it easier to cut timber into blocks straight away or to leave it to dry out? My neighbour says to leave it for a year but I like to get it down and be finished with it as soon as I can. Thanks

The more surface area exposed, the quicker it will dry out. The drier it gets, the more difficult to split. Stick to what you are doing.