Range heating..banging/water gush/not heating

Focusdpc

Hi guys I'm having an issue with our heating system so just looking for any advice/opinions please before the last resort of calling out a plumber.

Basically the heating has been running fine for the past 3 years since we moved it, over the past few weeks due to the heat we didn't light the range which heats our rads.
I decided to give it a full blast tonight to get some heat in the house and all seemed to be going as normal. But I heard some banging that seemed to be coming from the attic. We are a one story house. I opened the hot press and heard like 'gushes' of water flowing through the pipes beside the tank in the hot press. It was like a gush of water for a few seconds, then it would stop and this went on and on.
I was getting worried at this stage as I've never heard this or the banging before. The range was at full blast, the temp over 250c and I noticed the rads were not boiling like they should be. Usually you couldn't put your hand on the rad, they were just over luke warm tonight.

Any ideas what could be causing this ?
Could is be some type of air blockage ?
What I did see a couple of weeks back was I noticed the pump was turned on and there was no range lighting. One of the kids must have turned it on and it was probably going for nearly the whole day before I noticed it. I have no idea if that would cause any issue but jut thought I'd mention it.

All suggestion/opinions welcome.

Cheers

browner85

Sounds like the pump is not kicking in
Could be jammed due to not using it for the last few weeks ....

Wearb

Is there water in your small attic tank ?

Focusdpc

Thanks for the reply Browner85!

Is there anything I can do myself to try get it to kick in ? Or would I need a plumber ? I literally have zero skills when it comes to plumbing.

Cheers

Focusdpc

Wearb wrote: »

Is there water in your small attic tank ?

To be honest I'm not sure. I could get up tomorrow and have a look. I always thought there was only 1 tank up there, just goes to show how much I know.
So if there is not water in it, is there something I can do, or will something need to be replaced ?

Thanks for the reply!

Wearb

I should have asked if it's an oil or solid fuel range?

Focusdpc

Sorry my fault I should have said, it's a solid fuel range.

Wearb

Then there should be a tank in the attic about one quarter or third full when cold.

Focusdpc

Update

Hi guys and thanks for all the replies on this. Due to the warmer weather I couldn't really put this to the test until a couple of nights ago and it seems the issue is still there.

Basically I got up in the attic, the small tank was only half full so I thought aha! I put my hand in this small tank, it has an element like a kettle in it. I put about 10 or more liters of water in it and filled it right up.
It's been like that for a few weeks. I didn't update this thread until I was sure the issue was 'fixed.'
So a couple of nights ago it was fairly cold here, I put it on full blast to get some heat in the house. It seemed OK at first but as the heat went up, I could hear pipes banging in the hot press and the gushes of water again. The 'gushes' didn't seem as bad as the last time but are still happening.

I also noticed the radiator in the bathroom didn't get hot at all, the one in the hall did. The strange thing is the bathroom rad is usually the first to get hot.
I'm guessing the original problem was the small tank in the attic hadn't got enough water in it but is there anything else I need to do as in bleed the rads ?
Or could the issue be the pump ? Is there anyway I could tell if the pump was not working correctly ?

Thanks again guys for your input!

Dtp1979

Focusdpc wrote: »

Update

Hi guys and thanks for all the replies on this. Due to the warmer weather I couldn't really put this to the test until a couple of nights ago and it seems the issue is still there.

Basically I got up in the attic, the small tank was only half full so I thought aha! I put my hand in this small tank, it has an element like a kettle in it. I put about 10 or more liters of water in it and filled it right up.
It's been like that for a few weeks. I didn't update this thread until I was sure the issue was 'fixed.'
So a couple of nights ago it was fairly cold here, I put it on full blast to get some heat in the house. It seemed OK at first but as the heat went up, I could hear pipes banging in the hot press and the gushes of water again. The 'gushes' didn't seem as bad as the last time but are still happening.

I also noticed the radiator in the bathroom didn't get hot at all, the one in the hall did. The strange thing is the bathroom rad is usually the first to get hot.
I'm guessing the original problem was the small tank in the attic hadn't got enough water in it but is there anything else I need to do as in bleed the rads ?
Or could the issue be the pump ? Is there anyway I could tell if the pump was not working correctly ?

Thanks again guys for your input!

I'd be pretty sure you don't have an element in your small tank, and if you do, I'd love to see it. Was it the ballcock are you we're touching maybe?
What is the pump thermostat set to? Did you try turn this down to see if the pump kicks in? Post a pic of the full Hotpress pipework as this might help. Try have it all in the one picture

Focusdpc

Thanks for the reply dtp1979!

In the small tank I cant actually see the 'element' as the small tank is like sitting up higher than the big tank and is fair close to the roof but when I put my hand in and felt around it's exactly what it felt like. I didn't feel a ballcock at all. We're in this house roughly 3 years and that is the first time I've explored the attic.

There seems to be 2 thermostats in the house, one in a bedroom wardrobe right behind the range system in the kitchen, it's a bunglow. And one in the hot press. From googling in the past I set both of these to 60.
Should these be set to 60? I have them like this for the last 3 years and every now and then if the range was boiling I'd hear the pipes clanging but no issues. This was actually working fine til we stopped using it a few months ago.

I'll get some pics up in a bit.

Thanks again

Dtp1979

Focusdpc wrote: »

Thanks for the reply dtp1979!

In the small tank I cant actually see the 'element' as the small tank is like sitting up higher than the big tank and is fair close to the roof but when I put my hand in and felt around it's exactly what it felt like. I didn't feel a ballcock at all. We're in this house roughly 3 years and that is the first time I've explored the attic.

There seems to be 2 thermostats in the house, one in a bedroom wardrobe right behind the range system in the kitchen, it's a bunglow. And one in the hot press. From googling in the past I set both of these to 60.
Should these be set to 60? I have them like this for the last 3 years and every now and then if the range was boiling I'd hear the pipes clanging but no issues. This was actually working fine til we stopped using it a few months ago.

I'll get some pics up in a bit.

Thanks again

If the range was banging occasionally then it was never working fine to begin with I'm afraid. Post pics when you can thanks

Bull76

Hi,

With my folks range, when the pipes bang and you hear gushing. Usually means large build up in limescale and time for a clean.
As far as I'm aware the small tank in the attic shouldn't be filled to the top. As this tank should be acting as the fill and expansion for the solid fuel stove. You stated the bathroom radiator usually gets hot first, so this must be the heat sink radiator for the system. Does sound like you have a restriction in your pipes. This is all based on solid fuel stove with back boiler. As others have stated, put up a few pics of the pipe work from the stove to the hot press. Also include any thermostats in the hot press.

But probably time to get a plumber in the have a look.

Focusdpc

Thanks for the input guys.

Here is a pic >>> http://imgur.com/a/kNc9P

The left image is just to the right of the tank in the hotpress, the middle part of the image is the 2 thermostats in the bedroom wardrobe in the room behind the range. I don't know why there is 2, I just have both of them set to 60. The final part of the image is where its all going on in the hotpress. The immersion sink/bath in the middle, then a timer for the immersion that is what we use to actually turn the immersion on/off and then another thermostat just below it. I have no idea if this is for the rage too, just like the other 2 I have it set to 60. Right under this is a 2 switches. One of them seems to be dummy but the one at the top seem to be for the thermostat. I've never touched those switches but I'm wondering if one of the kids might have... that is a possibility.

I don't have the range lighting tonight but I just turned the pump on and it's humming away so I take it it's working.

We do have serious limescale here I have to clean the shower head 1 to 2 times a week. Is is a big job to have it cleaned out ? A job I can do or a plummer needed ?

Thanks again for all you help.

Bull76

Hi,

Can you take a better pic of the cylinder please, wide angle. The line with the hot water appears to be where the cold water supply to the tank should be. Also the piping looks small from the tank. The two thermostats together look like a high and low temp control. Usually not set to the same temp.
You said the pump hums nicely when turned on, so kinda rules out the pump. To me it is looking like lime scale build up and probably lots of it. If the tank is a direct tank then it will be nicely covered in it. The smaller pipes will nearly be closed off with the build up. You won't hear the same gushing noise when cold as a lot of the loose lime scale would have solidified, but when hot the water expands and thus increases pressure and causes the banging and gushing.
Need to be careful with the back boiler as it can burst if the flow gets restricted to the point of no flow.

Focusdpc

Thanks for the info! I don't know if I'm getting somewhere with this situation but I feel I am anyway

That tank/cylinder in the hotpress is fairly new about 2 years old. We had pipes burst in the hotpress about 2 years ago and the plumber replaced it 'cylinder'. I really hope this won't be a constant problem for us!

2 pics as follows >>> http://imgur.com/a/jHML6
http://imgur.com/a/AIFNj


The fist pic is of the wide angle. The second pic is of the other side of the cylinder and also last night I was looking at the pump and noticed it was on setting '2'. I changed it to setting '3' as you can see in the pic but haven't used the heat so can turn it back in necessary. Any idea what setting it should be on ?

Also you reckon it could be a limescale build up... do you think I could mange the job myself ? Or would I need to get a plumber in ? The house is a bunglow and from the first pic, right at the end of the cyliner there is a lever/handle. The plumber said if the pipes ever burst again put a hose on here and drain the tank. Thats all I can remember him saying as I wasn't expecting to ever have to do it.

Thanks again for the info, much appreciated.

Dtp1979

Focusdpc wrote: »

Thanks for the info! I don't know if I'm getting somewhere with this situation but I feel I am anyway

That tank/cylinder in the hotpress is fairly new about 2 years old. We had pipes burst in the hotpress about 2 years ago and the plumber replaced it 'cylinder'. I really hope this won't be a constant problem for us!

2 pics as follows >>> http://imgur.com/a/jHML6
http://imgur.com/a/AIFNj


The fist pic is of the wide angle. The second pic is of the other side of the cylinder and also last night I was looking at the pump and noticed it was on setting '2'. I changed it to setting '3' as you can see in the pic but haven't used the heat so can turn it back in necessary. Any idea what setting it should be on ?

Also you reckon it could be a limescale build up... do you think I could mange the job myself ? Or would I need to get a plumber in ? The house is a bunglow and from the first pic, right at the end of the cyliner there is a lever/handle. The plumber said if the pipes ever burst again put a hose on here and drain the tank. Thats all I can remember him saying as I wasn't expecting to ever have to do it.

Thanks again for the info, much appreciated.

Limescale dosent effect a heating system so rule that out. As asked earlier, can you show a picture of the entire Hotpress so we can help you. Remove everything from the press, stand back and take a pic. We need to see all pipework at once to understand where each pipe is going. Showing bits of pipework is pointless

Bull76

How can you say limescale doesn't have an affect on a heating system? My folks solid fuel cooker is in a hard water area. The limescale builds up so much in the pipes and back boiler it closes off the ID of the pipe work. Which means the pipe work from the back boiler to the cylinder needs to be removed, the back boiler also needs to be removed. Usually spend a day cleaning up and the feed/Expansion tank gets cleaned also.

Dtp1979

Bull76 wrote: »

How can you say limescale doesn't have an affect on a heating system? My folks solid fuel cooker is in a hard water area. The limescale builds up so much in the pipes and back boiler it closes off the ID of the pipe work. Which means the pipe work from the back boiler to the cylinder needs to be removed, the back boiler also needs to be removed. Usually spend a day cleaning up and the feed/Expansion tank gets cleaned also.

That's all I'm saying on this matter.

Limescale dosent effect heating systems. It only effects fresh water systems. The only way it coujd do what you're describing is if it was an old direct cylinder and brass boiler. I'm assuming your parents boiler didn't heat rads?

Bull76

Yes, it was a direct system. Which was a stupid install. But that's the way it was done.
The system has been changed to in-direct about 4 years ago. This has helped alot. Radiators have been added with the change. All copper cylinders over the years. Back boiler was a steel boiler as the original broke down.
Gravity hot water and pumped heating. Pipe stat to control the pump.
But I go off topic.....

Limescale can build up over the years unless the F&E tank is topped up with soft water and the system initially filled with soft water. Grant it would take a while to happen.

Dtp1979

Bull76 wrote: »

Yes, it was a direct system. Which was a stupid install. But that's the way it was done.
The system has been changed to in-direct about 4 years ago. This has helped alot. Radiators have been added with the change. All copper cylinders over the years. Back boiler was a steel boiler as the original broke down.
Gravity hot water and pumped heating. Pipe stat to control the pump.
But I go off topic.....

Limescale can build up over the years unless the F&E tank is topped up with soft water and the system initially filled with soft water. Grant it would take a while to happen.

In an indirect system it would never happen. Unless there is a
leak